Interior Gripes

"Snuze: Needs another Swede" (markg) 04/07/2015 at 08:52 • Filed to: None

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Am I the only one who gets sick of listening to people bitch about car interiors? I read the article on FP about Cadillac restructuring their lineup. And I swear, every comment was something to the effect of "Durrrr, doesn't matter wat u call it cadillac just needs to maek better cars and not suck!!1!" with several replies of "i can't even why they think they can beat Mercedses? Theyre interiors are shit and Mercedes are the best!"

And it made me realize how tired I am of people constantly bitching about car interiors. Now don't get me wrong, there are certain legitimate gripes, especially if a manufacturer does something stupid with a high end automobile. Cadillac did put a cheap looking gauge cluster in the ATS, which is annoying, but the rest of the car is great! That's a gripe, but it doesn't doesn't make the whole car somehow worse. And likewise Mercedes, the benchmark in the luxury segment, put a derpy looking steering wheel in the new S-Class. But everyone still considers it the standard.

Do we ever reach a point where cars can't possibly get any more luxurious? I mean any luxury car out there, Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, even Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, they are all nicer than my apartment! Frankly, they are fancier than most peoples houses I've been in. So what does that say when our cars are nicer and more luxurious than our homes?

Then again, what do I know? I drove this:

for 2 and a half years. Of my own volition. And you know what? It wasn't awful. I mean, it was really shitty, but it was a car and it did everything I needed it to do, and was not the worst place to spend time commuting or on a road trip. And it was probably a much better reflection of my home furnishings at the time.

So whats going on here? Am I just too in touch? Is it First World Problems? Or have all the cars gotten so good that we have to look at the minutia to determine a winner and a loser?

Leon711 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 08:57

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the worst it the afterthought iPad on dash looks shit crowd, I literally don't care and neither do the manufacturers.

Funktheduck > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:03

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You're complaining about FP commenters. They're never happy with anything.

Funktheduck > Leon711 04/07/2015 at 09:04

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My 3 has it and I like it. After driving with it I like how the screen is just barely out of view. If I have to look at it for some reason while driving I can still see what's ahead Of me. My gripe is it's not adjustable. I wish I could turn it toward me.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:05

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The following, with the exception of the first 2 sentences, is not directed at you.

I don't actually mind this interior. It's layed out simply and practically. The worst thing is the material, but... NEWS FLASH:

Hard plastic, while looking and feeling cheap, is very durable. If you want a utilitarian car (you're looking at this one, so you are) that is actually the more important point. Obviously you don't want your Caddy to be like that, but... ANOTHER NEWS FLASH:

It isn't. Remember that 90's Ford slogan, "Have you driven a Ford lately?" Well...

"Have you driven a Ford Cadillac lately?"

Apparently not.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:08

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manual windows!!!

gimme gimme gimme!

Party-vi > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:08

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I spend over 2 hours a day in my car. I want a quiet place that has nice soft things to touch and a great stereo to listen to. I want a steering wheel that isn't completely made out of plastic and pants leather. I want buttons that don't feel like they will break when I use them.

More importantly though, I don't want the same switchgear from a $15k car in my $65k car. That's my gripe with Cadillac, Lincoln, Infiniti, Acura....

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Funktheduck 04/07/2015 at 09:08

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But, I'm like a moth to the flame when it comes to FP comments. I know its toxic, but I can't resist sometimes.

Actually, we don't seem to gripe about interiors too much about here in Oppo Land, which I appreciate.

Jayhawk Jake > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:09

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Hey, this is the same steering wheel as the C6 Corvette. That's fancy.

Jayhawk Jake > Party-vi 04/07/2015 at 09:10

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I think it's funny how different the switchgear perspective is.

Cadillac owners wouldn't want 15k car switch gear, but vice versa I have the same steering wheel as a Camaro ZL1 in my Chevrolet Sonic. That's awesome.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:11

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Interior matters to me a fair bit. Not in the way it does for most though, I just demand a splash of colour, I hate all black interiors. I never could understand the whole "every plastic has to feel nice to the touch" thing. I don't carress my dash, I just need it to look nice and work.

Mattbob > Party-vi 04/07/2015 at 09:12

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Switchgear:

DipodomysDeserti > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:12

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When you're paying premium money for a premium car, the interior needs to be well sorted. Does it change how good the car drives? No, but you shouldn't be left wanting in a luxury car. BMW interiors are very sparse, but they do it in a clean and crisp Teutonic way. Merc and Audi interiors are pretty luxo. Cadillac interior of the past twenty years looks just like Chevy trucks, so they have a lot of catching up to do.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 04/07/2015 at 09:13

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I actually really liked the layout of the Slobalt interior, it was very utilitarian and I didn't have to think about anything in it. I find my Cruze is way too busy compared to it.

And you're right, for most cars, especially non-luxury vehicles, durability is important. No one buying a Camry or Odyssey cares about a fancy leather dash pad or burled walnut trim or whatever, they just want it to hold up to their kids and dog. And that's why I never minded the Balt interior. I wanted that thing to last me for a long time, but it was sadly taken from this world too soon by a Ford Tempo.

And to your last point, yes. I don't get the hate. I think the new Cadillacs are great cars. My only gripe, as I mentioned, is very specifically the ATS gauge cluster looks a little cheap compared to everything else in the car. But it's certainly not a deal breaker.

DoYouEvenShift > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:15

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I agree with you 100%, it makes me think the site is made up of interior decorators. "Some wood here, a throw pillow here, scented candles there yada yada"

Maybe if you drive down the freeway feeling up the headliner and dashboard, then I guess its a legitimate gripe. But all the cars you listed loom great imo. I really wouldn't say ones better than the other, jus different.

I will say, Ive driven some late model BMWs, Audis, MB, whatever, any they're very nice, but I kept expecting more from what Ive gathered on here.

Vimto > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:16

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FP Commentors probably won't be the ones contributing to Cadillac's bottom line…the general buying public does that. As such, it matters little what they think about the latest interiors. I will say that I personally think the new interiors look great, but I recently purchased a 2013 Fusion, and can't help but feel like I miss the simplicity of the Cobalt you posted. My Fusion feels like a cavern, a plushy well-designed cavern, but an overbearing one.

Flat Six > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:18

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I agree! You don't even notice the interior while you are driving. Also, pictures on the internet don't do justice to what an interior actually feels like. As long as it is comfortable, has good visibility, and doesn't fall apart I am good.

Hooker > Jayhawk Jake 04/07/2015 at 09:19

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See, I geek out over these things too and people just look at me funny.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Leon711 04/07/2015 at 09:20

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I would agree with you on most cars. Hondas, Toyotas, etc. You're right, no one cares, least of all the manufactures, even on entry level luxury cars (hello CLA). It does look like an afterthought, but its whatever - it's mostly just to meet the camera regs and not have to redesign the whole dash. I think all the manufacturers will fix it on their next model refreshes.

Now I would disagree on on higher end cars - for the money you should expect better than an iPad propped up on the dash. But if you look around, everyone has already integrated them, except maybe Audi in the A8.

Flat Six > Party-vi 04/07/2015 at 09:22

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You may think you dont want cheap switchgear, but it will last way longer than gooey melty nasty "luxury" switches in a Ferrari or Porsche.

https://stickynomore.com

jariten1781 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:24

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I totally get it. It's the second most expensive product most people will ever buy beyond their house. You spend so much time in it I can understand why people would nit-pick the shit out of stuff they don't like, especially when there's something completely incongruous and cheap in what is otherwise a well put together car.

I don't really ascribe to that though. I've always bought cars well below what I could 'afford' and interior is way down the list of needs for me. I just need nicely bolstered thrones and a decent feeling steering wheel (I can't stand rental spec plastic wheels). As long as the radio/windows/HVAC all work it's good enough for me.

BigBlock440 > DipodomysDeserti 04/07/2015 at 09:29

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A lot of the bitching is from people not paying premium money and still wanting a premium car. He's specifically calling out comments on the Cadillac article(s), but it's just as tiring hearing people bitch and moan that a 20K car doesn't have an S-class interior.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:36

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The people who are dropping $70-140k on a sedan aren't buying a car that's nicer than their own home, and they expect an increasing degree of perfection as their cost goes up.

Textured Soy Protein > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:44

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I do think people get a little too caught up in the soft touch plastics glue sniffing.

My '13 135is has a perfectly decent interior that by the standards of nearly-$50k cars isn't that great. But it still is pretty nice.

My '05 Grand Cherokee had a perfectly decent interior with some admittedly cheap hard plastic that would get criticized like hell nowadays, but it's not so bad either. On balance it's still a very comfy vehicle.

Rico > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:46

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I mean it's tough to explain if you don't really experience it. But if you owned a luxury car that would be your standard of comfort, instead you owned the above which means your standards would be much lower.

An example of this would be going from driving your car to instead riding a scooter to work and not a powered scooter. I'm talking a Razor scooter the kids use. You would clearly find that substandard compared to a car especially once it starts raining.

While the steering wheel in an S class might be derpy, it's is still one of the most luxurious interiors on the market. At no point when sitting in one would someone say "Man this car sucks, look at this shitty steering wheel".

You can't compare a small, compact space with an apartment/house. It just isn't a fair comparison.

Now onto Cadillac, I got the chance to sit not only in a CTS V Sport but also a CTS V and ATS V. Cadillac still has a long way to go. Compare the CTS V interior to that of an E63 AMG (one of the cars it competes with) and there is not comparison the Mercedes is a nicer place to be. Hell the rear doors on the Cadillac CTS V and V Sport sound like Toyota doors when you shut them, there is no solidity, no bank vault feel.

Also I've been in the ATS it's not that great and you can see where corners were cut. Is it a great driver's car? Certainly. However the new C Class interior puts it as well as the 3 Series and A4 (both of which are due for a LCI refresh) to shame.

The point of it is if you can afford it than why not enjoy it. Some people see cars only as objects of utility and the interior can be made of cardboard for all they care but people with luxury cars don't.

Rico > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:51

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Some companies do it better than others, I think Audi has it right, Mazda has it right, Mercedes needs to work on it (on some of their cars, the S class double hooded screen is the best), BMW has it right.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:54

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I feel exactly the same way. Hard plastic interiors that are well made are just as appealing as leather wrapped, whale penis lined steering wheels and seats. Cloth and plastic all the way. My RX7 was easily my favorite interior, and the entire dash is a single piece of molded plastic. It was still awesome.

Rico > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:57

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See you have a gripe about the gauge cluster but it's utilitarian as in it has needles, a dial and some numbers but it is obvious to you that it is "cheap". Now apply that to an entire car, all car seats are designed the same with a place for your butt and your back but the different materials, padding, bolstering, heating, ventilating, or even massaging features are what set it apart.

TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:58

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Honestly, I think folks need to spend a significant amount of time in a "fantastic plastic" interior to really appreciate the soft interiors we take for granted now. You bring up a good point with your Cobalt. Sometimes it is good enough. Complaining about a gauge (which really isn't that bad) is so petty. I think people don't quite understand how crazy it is that in a luxury car you are literally surrounded by an atmosphere better than your own home.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 09:59

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I, to some extent, wonder the same. I mean, what more can you do to/with a car that you're mass-producing? Luxury cars have stalled out in the last 10-20 years as everything else catches up. There's almost nothing new you can add aside from autonomous driving tech. Infotainment is nearly ubiquitous and was really the last major differentiator. Even the materials are trickling down. A 10-year-old luxury car is not as nice a place to spend your time as most newer compact cars that average people drive.

Klaus Schmoll > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 10:11

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I think that most of it comes from Euro-fanbois who have an axe to grind with the new kid in town. Obviously, Caddys can't be as good as their coveted AudBimMercs and they have to prove that to the world. It's hard to find fault with the engines and other greasy bits, Caddilac has that front pretty much covered, so they have to attack at the weakest point, which to date is the interiour. Had Caddy spent a few bucks more on that they would find something else. Haters gonna hate.

DipodomysDeserti > BigBlock440 04/07/2015 at 10:19

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I hear that. If you want an S Class interior at a $20k price point, you need to buy a five year old S-Class.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > DipodomysDeserti 04/07/2015 at 10:26

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Granted, I think they may be catching up now.

Steve Zissou > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 10:29

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The thing is, when you spend more money on something, you expect more from it. Go on yelp and read restaurant reviews. All the restaurants that cost 4 dollar signs will have worse reviews than many 1 to 2 dollar sign restaurants. I can practically guarantee you that the food is better at the $$$$ restaurant, but expectation is also higher. It's common sense, as the Notorious B.I.G. opined, "Mo money, mo problems." (But in this case, problems are actually just complaints.)

Funktheduck > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 10:30

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I'm pretty sure most of the FP people have never driven. The majority are definitely young because it's clear they don't know how the real world works. "What do you mean I can't have a diesel miata hatchback shooting brake wagon with 3 million horsepower, a 20k redline, weigh 3 pounds but have a full luxury interior, manual only, and it cost only $1000".

yamahog > pip bip - choose Corrour 04/07/2015 at 10:36

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Two of my power windows stopped working in the Jeep. I now have two crank windows and the two remaining power windows. It's really funny the first time people realize it.

Quadradeuce > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 10:37

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I personally think that a lot of the German interiors look stodgy, and I think it's unfortunate that Cadillac is chasing that image. I don't want the inside of my car looking like my grandmother's hutch, thanks. I'm more in line with Volvo and Lincoln's interiors, which seemed cleaner and more modern. But it all comes down to taste. Some people like the idea of lots of brown stained wood on their dash. Some like simple and monochromatic. To each their own, and as long as there isn't a glaring design issue or a low quality material choice, than I think bitching about it is pointless. If it's not your style, move on. A car can't be everything to everyone.

yamahog > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 10:41

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Part of me wants to say FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS because I'm more than happy with the 1SS interior and 1LE suede bits in my new Camaro, but then again I've been driving total shitheaps my whole life and studies on the voice of the customer tell us that people really do make decisions based on this stuff. I also anticipate that once I'm used to this level of comforts I wouldn't want to regress if I were in the market for a new car.

I've recused myself from reviewing my own purchase, but I already know Travis will have choice words for the Camaro interior in his assessment.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 10:42

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I'll never understand the reasoning behind dashboards and literally everything needing to be squishy. Give me a comfy seat, nice wheel, and a soft arm rest and I'm happy. I don't know about any of you all, but I don't caress my face on my dash... Ever. Maybe this is why most American products from the early 2000s don't bug me, because they usually have those three requirements...Maybe that's why my BMWs horrendously plastic interior doesn't bug me, because the stuff I touch on a daily basis is nice.

I never understood what a "bankvault feel" to the door closing meant either. I guess having a solid feel when a door closes is a selling point to some people.. Though I've only ever opened one car door that genuinely felt flimsy and that was on a previous gen Ford Escape.

I dunno I guess interior quality is low on my list. Maybe that's why I've never thought any American car was bad.

Party-vi > Mattbob 04/07/2015 at 10:45

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Listen here you little shit.

Party-vi > Flat Six 04/07/2015 at 10:52

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I don't need luxury switches, but I don't want to pay $65k for a car that the engineers fished through parts bins for cheaper stuff. Cadillac and Lincoln cannot justify a premium price for a vehicle if they don't build them like actual premium vehicles. The CTS should be priced like the Hyundai Genesis in my opinion because you're getting everything the luxury competitors have, minus the luxury.

marshknute > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 10:59

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In digital animation and robotics, there is a term called the Uncanny Valley. From Wiki: "This is when features move almost, but not exactly, like natural beings, causing a response of revulsion among observers. The "valley" refers to the dip in a graph of the comfort level of observers as animations/robots move towards a healthy, natural likeness."

Cadillac falls into the Uncanny Valley of Luxury, in which they are close enough to being a credible luxury manufacturer, but not quite, and therefore they are nothing but a source of frustration to people who want them to be the real deal.

It's like the Toyobaru Twins occupying the Uncanny Valley of Horsepower, where people expect a lightweight 200 hp coupe to be quick, but it just isn't. They know it's not meant to be a speed freak, but somehow breaking the 200 hp barrier prompts people to develop unrealistic performance expectations.

The Uncanny Valley explains why flawed cars are often endearing and enjoyable, while cars that are merely competitive (not class-leading) often get dismissed...kind of like Cadillac's.

Rico > BigBlock440 04/07/2015 at 11:21

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Thing is Caddy is definitely pricing their cars in line with the other top lux competitors so people are allowed to complain when the interior of the CTS doesn't match that of an E Class or 5 series. If their cars were cheaper than yeah nobody should complain.

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 11:46

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My issues are with color combinations.

I can only take but so much black and gray. At this point I see a car with a tan interior and I think they pushed the envelope.

Captain of the Enterprise > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/07/2015 at 12:22

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Same wheel as the Corvette though, nice.

Rico > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/07/2015 at 12:29

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Says the kid who has an M3, many cars from that exact year look like SHIT on the inside. Go slam a Corolla door from that model year and tell me it sounds exactly like your M3.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Rico 04/07/2015 at 12:45

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...I came from a car from the same era. The M3s interior is nicer than the GMCs interior only because the dash is squishy-ish and the bottons are a little more solid to the touch. Same solid door closing sound.

My girlfriend has a car from the same era. In fact, the interior in both her '98 Camry she had and her '02 Taurus she has now are NICER than the interior in my car. Once again same solid door sound.

Sorry, but just because my M3 is German doesn't make it instantly better than cars of the same era. This same kid also equates my M3 interior to similar quality as my girlfriend's mom's 2009 Dodge Avenger so you can see how I feel about it.

Rico > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/07/2015 at 12:49

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But see that's the point, your 90's German car is on par with a car that came out a decade later. Regarding the Camry and Taurus I have no opinion since I've never been in either. I'm sure an 09' M3 is miles ahead of an 09' Avenger too and I'm sure a 2019 Dodge will be just as nice on the inside at the 2009 M3.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > marshknute 04/07/2015 at 12:55

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Genius! I've never heard it explained this way but it makes perfect sense to me.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 04/07/2015 at 12:56

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Agreed, black and grey are overused.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Rico 04/07/2015 at 12:56

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It may have came out a decade later, but it was also deemed one of, if not the worst interior of the time. My moms '08 Saturns interior makes the M3s look like a joke. Even back in the 90s compared to an interior in say an A4 it was a joke. It's downright terrible for something that carried a price tag of nearly $40k and was considered a luxury car, even back in the late 90s.

Rico > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/07/2015 at 13:02

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I believe it was considered more of a driver's car first then a luxury car. As compared to say a Merc or Audi that would be considered a luxury car first then a driver's car. Comparing model years I'm sure an 08' M3 would make an 08' Saturn's interior look choppy.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Rico 04/07/2015 at 13:13

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Funny you mention that. My aunt has an '08 328i and compared to the Vue, it wasn't really that much nicer. Sure it had leather seats compared to the Saturns cloth, but the dashboards/door tops in each car were incredibly soft to the touch, the seats are heated and all-day comfortable, the wheels were wrapped in leather and felt good in your hand, arm rests were nicely padded and covered in leather, and both had plain old radios. The knobs in both even felt similarly solid. The BMW did of course have wood compared to the Saturns faux carbon fiber, a bit nicer grade of leather on things, and toys like keyless ignition and entry, self leveling lights, and a power passenger seat. Other than that though, my aunt paid for that badge, RWD, a nice straight six, and a convertible top.

Rico > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/07/2015 at 13:27

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RWD, a nice straight six

Worth the cost of entry, give me now.

pip bip - choose Corrour > yamahog 04/08/2015 at 03:47

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nice one!

BigBlock440 > DipodomysDeserti 04/08/2015 at 11:17

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A perfect example: http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-most-i…

Half the list is low-end econoboxes. Bitching about the interior of a car that sells for 16K being cheap feeling (Avenger, Cavalier)? One that meets and exceeds all current safety and emission standards no less. Where would people rather they cut costs, the mechanicals? Brakes? Suspension? Testing? Smaller, weaker components?

*I know you said you get it, but it was too good an opportunity to drive my point home to pass up.

DipodomysDeserti > BigBlock440 04/08/2015 at 12:03

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Yes, the Cavalier got #1, but the 7 series (a $74K+ car) got number 2. They could have easily replaced Cavalier with any GM product from that era.

BigBlock440 > DipodomysDeserti 04/08/2015 at 12:14

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I was just pointing out more examples of people complaining about the interior of econoboxes. To put them on the list requires no thought. It's a cheap car, it's not going to have a nice interior. The expensive cars should be well sorted though, so the ones that aren't I guess should be on the list.

DipodomysDeserti > BigBlock440 04/08/2015 at 13:22

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Yeah, I think it's just that they're especially shitty. Mazda and Scion makes econo boxes, but their interiors are much nicer looking than that Cavalier and Avenger.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > pip bip - choose Corrour 04/09/2015 at 09:44

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In a perverse way I miss that car because it was so basic. Crank windows were the best. But I also had manual door locks, which sucked, but I lived.