Its a wagon, er, um...crossover?

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 03/18/2015 at 11:37 • Filed to: None

4

24

Porsche Macan S - SUV - Height 63.9 inches

Subaru Outback - Wagon - Height 65.7 inches

Wut? Where the SUV's at?

Oh there we go.

Nibby > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 11:39

0

Full size SUVs + parking garages + Manhattan and/or Brooklyn = not a good combination.

HammerheadFistpunch > Nibby 03/18/2015 at 11:41

0

I parked last night in a place that gave me exactly 1 inch of clearance...glad I removed my roof rack.

Flat Six > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 11:41

1

Don't complain too loudly or people might realize what happened. Wagons are back man!!!!

PS9 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 11:41

7

I hope that Porsche doesn't give the owner to many...

...

...

Macan ical problems in the first 100k miles! Ehh? EHH?!

HammerheadFistpunch > Flat Six 03/18/2015 at 11:42

0

I know it, they are getting AWD, but they are...for all intents and purposes...wagons again nearly.

HammerheadFistpunch > PS9 03/18/2015 at 11:44

0

if it gets past 40k untouched macan always trade it in

Tapas > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 11:45

0

Its a Cross-UV or a SU-Over

Nibby > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 11:45

1

Those damn red pipes... I had to zigzag around and those pillars were such a PITA

bob and john > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 11:45

1

there was an article a while ago that pretty much called subaru out on their BS with the outback. it stopped being a wagon loongg ago

HammerheadFistpunch > Tapas 03/18/2015 at 11:47

1

I'm just happy Porsche doesn't do the BMW thing and try and make everyone call them sports activity vehicles...

HammerheadFistpunch > bob and john 03/18/2015 at 11:48

1

no question. I owned a forester (2005) and my neighbor had a current model outback that was looked 2x as big, and it was taller...than the forester!

HammerheadFistpunch > Nibby 03/18/2015 at 11:49

0

Its not the pipes that are the problem, I would rather hit the pipes and go...oh, right. then clip my car...again.

Tapas > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 11:54

1

Still, they're lying about their cars. Even the Cayenne is no longer an SUV. They shrunk it.

The only SUV is what people call "Full Size SUV". If you have a vehicle with less ground clearance and size, its a Crossover.

If such a vehicle has a ground clearance similar to a car, then its a wagon or hatchback.

But the SAV term is bullshit. Unless looking foolish is an activity.

HammerheadFistpunch > Tapas 03/18/2015 at 11:58

0

Lying? I wouldn't say that. I mean they can call it what they want since there are no rules for what is this and what is that. The lines are so blurred these days it almost doesn't even matter. I mean, I'm happy to call my land cruiser a wagon like its titled.

Tapas > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 12:11

0

I mean just because there's no formal definition, car manufacturers can't claim their product is one thing, but sell you something else.

For example, if I wanted a BMW coupe and they gave me a 6er with four doors because they call those a coupe too, that would be lying...a coupe can't have 4 doors.

Just like how an SUV (Macan) can't have the same ground clearance and a Crossover . Or the same length as a hatchback (Merc GLA).

Next thing you know, Scion will start selling yC sedans. It will be a re-badged xB hatchback.

But from now on, Scion will "be the pioneer in the auto industry." And "...first to use an over-all vertical car configuration and vertically enlarged trunk enclosure to dominate the market in making a sedan with highest amount of headroom and trunk space."

Also.......wut? Your Land Cruiser is legally a Wagon? People who write laws clearly have no idea of what they're regulating. Kinda like how a 60 something year old law is being invoked to prevent new smart German headlights from coming into production in US cars.

PS: I do know that BMW calls them Gran Coupe, which is not the same as Coupe.

It is deceivingly similar if you don't know about cars, but legally, they're differentiating their product.

HammerheadFistpunch > Tapas 03/18/2015 at 12:15

0

Meh, manufactures can do whatever they want. If Mercedes wants to make a slopping roof wagon and call it a "shooting brake" they aren't wrong because the definition of shooting brake isn't locked into to some kind of rule. The moral of the story is that it doesn't matter, and feeling all sorts of ways about it is just wasted energy. I just eye roll and move on with life.

Tapas > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 12:18

0

Fair enough.....if people paid me enough to tell them wrong things (by buying my product when I changed the name), I'd probably do it too.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 12:39

0

I am liking that combo more and more.

Ride height and AWD for rough pavement and speed bumps and such... (plus the Macan has optional air suspension that can lower for cruising, and raise for clearance.)

Wide stance for decent handling, as CUVs go, and wider cargo accommodation and comfortable interior.

Low roofline for decreased drag, and less weight, lower overall-CG compared to other vehicles with similar ride height, and a general long-wide-low roof look.

I never quite got the point of having SO much excess head room. That Land Cruiser has a huge amount of volume enclosed in a very tall body... aside from creating a very high center of gravity, and increased roll-over risk... how often is that vertical space utilized? Because it is ALWAYS in the airstream that that huge vehicle has to push itself through on the road.

If you really have a justification for tall cargo OFTEN, a trailer does work. Otherwise, if you want a full-size SUV, a pickup truck, or a full size cargo van are more practical for that anyway, and to each their own.

For passengers, and personal cargo, it isn't really that necessary. A hatch on the back, fold down seats, and a wide load floor is usually pretty generous, without the full-time added drag and even-higher-CG of the higher roofline. CUVs have plenty high of a CG as-is with the ride height aspect, without the roof structure being so tall.

Admittedly, I drive a Toyota Venza, similarly a low-roof design, with 8.1 inches of ground clearance, and 63.4 inches over-all height, ever so slightly lower than even Macan, let alone the narrower and taller Outback. It is 75" wide, and 189 inches long. It even used to come in "brown" for all the oppo love of a brown AWD wagon... but it is no longer available in that color, and is rumored to be cancelled as of July.

Sam > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 12:40

0

It's actually only 8 inches taller than my E34 wagon. Not bad, really.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 12:42

0

Except for CAFE.

They are classified as light trucks due to ride height, giving manufacturers a break on their Corporate Average Fuel Economy regs.

And with as badly as the government maintains the roads... the ride height is more welcome than it has been before... so I have become somewhat of a convert to CUVs, rather than low-riding, cargo-limited passenger cars, especially trunk-lid-limited sedans.

I like low ride height for performance, and I like aero sleekness... but for that purpose, I would much rather have a fastback coupe. For practicality and versatility... a CUV is where it now is.

PS9 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 12:47

0

Man, how can he afford the payments on that thing? He must have to live like a..

... Cayman! (ok I'll stop now)

HammerheadFistpunch > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/18/2015 at 13:44

0

No offense, but I have a hard time taking a Venza driver seriously, Even Toyota knows they missed the mark on that one and they are pulling the plug (to be clear i think its a fine car, just silly...also I'm mostly just messing with you)

Re: the land cruiser. There is much less vertical room in the cruiser than you think; mostly because the floor is high to make room for a beefy frame. As for using the space? I use it all. the. time. And you could say: why not get a similarly sized crossover for interior space that isn't as toll outside? two points: 1. I want to and do go off road. 2. Frames mean better payload, and I used the payload of my truck. Its beside the point though to argue why I think the Land Cruiser is great...cause it just is.

As for tall wagons with AWD? I have nothing against them, but I do think they are sill in the sense that people still think they offer an advantage in sightlines or safety. I mean, if we all drive tall cars to see over the other tall cars....

At any rate, I welcome the return of the wagon in whatever shape it comes in.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 14:34

0

Conversely, Venza is one of the only modern Toyota cars I would ever consider, and I did so because Subaru dropped the ball. Tribeca just isn't quite 100% (and Venza is more powerful, and 2-3oolbs lighter) and Outback is boring and ugly, with fewer amenities. The only thing Subaru has going is better VTD AWD on their 5EAT transaxles, which have now gone away in favor of CVT anyway.

I think Toyota have missed the mark on almost everything else they make. I wouldn't buy a Highlander (too big, un-necessary), or RAV4 (too ridiculous looking, rough-riding, and cheap, without being any more physically compact than Venza on the newer models, just as large, and taller.

Venza isn't selling because it is in a 3-way limbo. Not as big as Highlander for bigger families, not as cheap as brand-new as a RAV4 (but depreciates, so better to buy used than a RAV4, which I did buy used, not new), and overshadowed by the 5-passenger RX350 Lexus in a similar form factor. It is a higher quality vehicle than RAV4, but is not as luxury-oriented as Lexus... but also isn't as UGLY as Lexus, with their over-styling and hourglass predator-face grille.

Venza's premium-5-seat-CUV competitors, Nissan Murano, and Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX, just got re-designs, and are compelling enough to get some attention.

Venza was designed in California, and built on the wider track width of Avalon and Highlander, so it is much wider than Camry, without being so tall. If you want to call it a wagon, it is an 'Avalon wagon'

It has gobs of torque in the V6 model, and when introduced in 2009, it was faster than both the Edge Sport 3.7 V6, and Nissan Murano with the VQ-series 3.5 V6, as well as having more cargo room than both, due to width... it is overall shorter than both.

AWD layout aside, it is a better Outback than Subaru Outback is.

It is not a performance vehicle like an S6 Avant, nor is it a work-horse like a frame-based SUV, which are also heavier, and thus less efficient to drive daily.

It is great for 1-5 passengers, and especially for 2 passengers + personal cargo (typically bulky, but not more than a few hundred pounds, like furniture, etc...) with the rear seats folded.

If you do haul several hundred, or a thousand pounds of cargo... there are TONS of incentives to buy a full size pickup truck, or a pickup-truck-derived SUV. If you do go off road, there are 4Runner/Wrangler/Xterra etc. options for that.

For all-weather road use, long road trips, and daily driving... a lighter, more aerodynamic, AWD rather than locked-4WD or 2WD, CUV makes more sense.

CUV is the new wagon, and suited for the modern world with un-maintained-pavement, giant speed bumps in parking lots, getting to work through the snow, and general light to moderate daily use, and so much more versatile than trying to get a sedan to do that, without much loss of smoothness or general efficiency.

A family member has a RAM 1500 4-door pickup. It is SO much overkill and fuel-guzzling for what I would need, but other people use that stuff, maybe you do.

I don't need a hybrid or anything... but 25MPG is noticeably easier on the wallet than 15MPG is, even with lower gas prices. I didn't even have to get a FWD-I4 Venza to get that figure... I have a full-boat-option V6 AWD, that gets up and moves out of it's own way when the pedal is pressed, and even at 3900lbs, is less than most of it's class that is 4000-4500lbs, including Subaru Tribeca... and a helluva lot less than a full-size SUV or pickup truck at 5-6000+ lbs.

Autofixation > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2015 at 15:35

0

They're both SUV's. As far as I'm concerned, the Outback became an SUV after 2009.