Minimum track prep to keep a car comfy?

"4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30" (4muddyfeet) 12/24/2015 at 08:32 • Filed to: None

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This summer I’m going to find some time to get the Skoda on a couple of track days. With 60mpg and 204bhp I can pretty much get anywhere fairly cheaply and still have a good time, with cargo space to boot. BUT, I’ve only driven prepped cars on a track before, never my own vehicle, and never one that I have to drive back home again. So what do I need to consider to eke out maximum funjoyment while still having a useable and comfortable family hauler?

Currently I’m looking at wheels and tyres; sticky Nankang RS-2R 120 compound semi-slicks for £90 per corner, and two pairs of Audi RS6 Ronal’s for £120 all together (with a bit of travel to collect, two in Scotland and two in the Midlands!). The car already has a Stage 1 ECU tune to 204bhp 310ft/lb, and a second can be had for £499 to bump up to 219bhp 332ft/lb, but this requires the DPF to be gutted, hence the price (not worth it IMO).

I don’t want to spend a fortune, I have a project car after all and this may just be a flirt with the idea, but c.£1000 would be OK. What else should I be considering? Helmet, suspension, basic weight reduction? Lend me your knowledge.

OPPOsaurus WRX > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 08:41

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60 mpg and 204 hp? What are you running? Unicorn blood?

RWS Motorsport > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 08:42

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Likewise planning on doing at least 1 track day this year. Im not doing anything to the Honda to prep it, just going to purchase myself a helmet rather than hiring one.

I guess brakes and tyres are the common suggestion for these things, so some high performance brake pads and tyres (as you’ve already said) would be all id do. See if there is anything you want to change after the first track day maybe?

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > OPPOsaurus WRX 12/24/2015 at 08:45

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UK MPG btw, on motorways with Shell V-Power Diesel.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > RWS Motorsport 12/24/2015 at 08:51

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Is the EBC stuff any good? There’s a wild array of pricing on them, from £200 front and back upto £600. Brakes are good as standard, so I wouldn’t consider new calipers.

m2m, apex detective > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 08:52

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I was sort of convinced you were driving a 2.0T vRS until I ran into the torque figures and the DPF . The MPG should have thrown me off way earlier, granted, but I’m a metrical guy.

Having the Diesel, would you recommend it to other people, too, over the equivalent gasoline-powered vRS?

-this space for rent- > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 08:56

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Make sure your suspension and brake systems are in good shape. Uprated compound for pads and fresh, good fluid. On my first track day I spent a lot of time between runs bleeding out my brakes because I kept cooking cheap fluid. Speaking of which, a small collection of tools to be able to fix something minor if it pops up.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > m2m, apex detective 12/24/2015 at 09:02

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This one, the pumpe duse, no. The DPF is a complete afterthought and the car really hates multiple short journeys when the exhaust can’t get up to full temperature. The common rail on the other hand has no DPF issues, and is a little less tractor-y with a wider power band.

That said; the torque is excellent, the MPG is excellent, the reliability is excellent (petrol versions have well documented turbo failures for this gen), and it’s a great for over-taking.

I would recommend the diesel only if you have mid to long journeys and really need the MPG and lower tax. If you dont, then the more powerful petrol (+30bhp) is probably the better buy.

OPPOsaurus WRX > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 09:04

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Is ur mile a different length or something?

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > OPPOsaurus WRX 12/24/2015 at 09:05

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Our gallon is a different volume :)

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > -this space for rent- 12/24/2015 at 09:08

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Brake fluid is a good shout, what should I be looking for? I have basic tools in the back of all my cars, just in case.

Justin Hughes > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 09:12

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I wrote about this here , but to summarize for your situation...

If your existing tires are ordinary street tires like I’d imagine a Skoda comes with (American here, I’ve never actually seen a Skoda), you’ll want something more performance oriented for the track. I’ve literally melted the outer tread blocks off a set of no-name all-season tires when I took an MR2 I’d just bought to the track. So you’re thinking the right way there.

Brakes. You’re going to need some better brake pads - specifically, some with a much higher heat tolerance than street pads, because you’re going to be using them a lot harder than you do on the street (I hope). Brakes aren’t sexy, but they keep you out of trouble. The rest of your braking system should be fine, aside from changing out your brake fluid for a more heat resistant fluid than stock.

Helmet, I don’t know what the standards are for Euro track days, but yeah, you’ll need one.

My recommendation is other than tires and brakes, don’t worry about any other modifications for your first time out. Focus on your driving skills and learning the car as it is now. The car’s biggest faults will become obvious on the track, and then you can make plans to address those specific issues. But first and foremost, fix the loose nut behind the wheel (that’s you).

E92M3 > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 09:17

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EBC are not good for the track. They are ok for canyon runs, but they will not hold up to 20 min track sessions. My advice would be to get some PFC11 pads, and some decent tires. If you only plan to do a couple events PSS are good enough. They can still be driven on the street afterwards, and still provide lots of miles. I wouldn’t gut the car, .2 seconds a lap isn’t worth the trouble. Good brakes and tires could add up to 5 seconds a lap.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Justin Hughes 12/24/2015 at 09:22

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You’re probably not aware of this, but I’m the greatest driver on the planet.

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My bullshit aside, my road tyres aren’t great, Evergreen something-somethings fitted by the dealership before sale, good when warm and dry, but very questionable in the wet. The Nankangs come well reviewed for track use, and on cheap Audi alloys I’m at no real loss if I wreck them.

Of course I have no idea how this psuedo VW will perform on the track, but I have spent 8 months with it on the lovely winding country roads where I live, so I’d like to think I have a fair but incomplete understanding of how it acts and reacts. I am under no illusion here, my first track outings will be sensible.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > E92M3 12/24/2015 at 09:28

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The most I would do to the interior is remove the rear seats for the trackday. Minimal, I know. The Super Sports would be fine if the price was a little healthier, but those Nankangs (also road legal) for £90 a corner cannot be beaten.

I’ll check out some PFC11’s, is it worth getting grooved discs also? I know there’s debate as to the true functional benefit other than water displacement.

JGrabowMSt > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 09:38

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Brakes and tires. You want the best helmet you can afford. A HANS device never hurts.

The most important thing you can do is HHHC (Helmet, HANS, Harness and Cage).

It’s really hard to cage a wagon, it basically removes all functionality from the back seat. You can take a look at the cage design in the ring taxi and see why. Every large vehicle I’ve ever seen caged has had the rear seats removed completely. Super dangerous, especially with stock seats. Set a limit for yourself, and remember that you’re driving home in that car. You want to have a good balance of fun and self-preservation. Definitely not something to take chances with. I have the same dilemna with the Magnum. I did major suspension work, I’ll be getting significantly better tires for it in the spring, and it’ll be good. Just can’t push it or get too competitive, because breaking it would be really expensive and a lot of downtime I don’t want.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 09:53

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How much track driving do you have? I would stay away from the slicks and go with something more High Performance summer. Slicks don’t give you the noise feedback you need if you don’t know where their limit of grip is. A street tire chatters to you as you approach that limit, so you know what’s going on.

You need better brake fluid. I like ATE Type 200, I’m guessing you can find it in Europe since it’s a German product. I have no idea what brand of brake pads you can get easily, but you’ll need to upgrade them as well.

I recommend buying your own helmet over renting one.

You really don’t need to go crazy with prep at the beginning. Empty the car out of everything loose. I recommend leaving the spare tire in for the drive, and then taking it out at the track. I guess if your rear seats are super easy to take out, leave them at home. But meh. That little bit of weight isn't going to matter.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 10:10

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I think the minimum prep you should do is the semi-slick tires (as mentioned), ceramic brake pads and maybe remove some unnecessary things like the spare tire, cargo covers, floor mats, etc., to reduce weight. And you should probably have those semi slicks mounted on their own set of wheels.

And in the case of ceramic pads... they’re noisy and annoying to have for regular day to day driving. But they won’t melt the way regular metallic or semi-metallic pads might on a hard-driving track day.

A set of metallic brake pads is not expensive... much cheaper than a set of semi-slicks. Just teach yourself how to swap out brake pads yourself.

As to whether you need a helmet, roll cage and other stuff like that, that will depend on where, the type of track day and what their rules say. If the rules say you need it, then you need it.

Personally I wouldn’t want a caged car as a daily driver.

Smoggi - powered by 3 cylinders > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 10:25

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So are you going to put the Nankangs on all the time or just the trackday? If you’re planning on replacing the evergreens a set of sticky track tires is probably not much of an improvement in typical UK weather.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Smoggi - powered by 3 cylinders 12/24/2015 at 10:32

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I’ll have the Nankangs as track and travel to get there, hence the second set of wheels. The Evergreens I’ll just wear out on daily use.

E92M3 > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 10:43

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Slotted rotors are mostly for show. The claim is that the slots allow gases created during braking to escape. Brake pads are not 100% smooth as glass and flat against the rotor, so the gases escape anyway. Slotted rotors can never be turned, so if they warp slightly or develop grooves they have to be thrown away. Waste of money IMO.

Your brakes are mostly limited by your tires. If your causing ABS to activate better brakes aren’t going to help much. With my car a big brake kit will only help with some marginal weight savings, and better heat dissipation. Better heat dissipation could help with pedal feel consistency during long stints, but wouldn’t really trim any time off.

Arrivederci > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 10:45

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Helmet (obviously), upgraded brake pads, brake lines and fluid. Upgraded brakes will also be enjoyable on a daily driver as long as you don’t get any of those really noisy/dusty pads.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 10:48

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Good sticky tires and very light weight wheels is the best place to start. Next, I do sway bar upgrades, then brake pads.

Then attitude. Remember you are there to have fun, not take home the trophy.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 12/24/2015 at 10:57

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About two years of fortnightly driving in a S2000 spec Chevy Lacetti, a far better FWD track car than the Skoda will ever be!

I’m looking at brake fluid now, shouldn’t be a bother to get/install, but I need to do some brake pad research. I’m not going to turn this into a track car, just a useable daily with a bonus track day ability.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > E92M3 12/24/2015 at 10:59

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I’m not going to worry then. Times I’m not interested in, just maximum enjoyment. After all, it’s only a Skoda :)

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 12/24/2015 at 11:02

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This is not going to be a track machine, it’s primary use is fitting my dogs and my girlfriend in, so I definitely do not want a cage and permanent seat/trim removal. I think track days is all this car is capable of, and I’d also like to not wrap it around and Armco barrier :)

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > JGrabowMSt 12/24/2015 at 11:05

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I’m not going to be that hardcore. This is literally for a spare weekend and to maximise the potential of the vehicle while keeping it relatively stock. A Hans device is a great idea, proven and reliable, but that require at least 4-point belts, which requires new seats, and in my experience a loss of day to day comfort. Brakes and tyres I’m on board with, brake fluid too, and I’ll definitely do some helmet research.

Have you tracked the Hemi?

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 12/24/2015 at 11:07

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I’m not the sort of bloke who’s willing to wreck his car just to save a few seconds off a time. If I’m having fun and learning the vehicle, then I’m satisfied :)

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 11:20

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Oh btw... I meant to say “A set of ceramic brake pads is not expensive”

JGrabowMSt > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/24/2015 at 11:43

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The car is being built for the track, but I’ve decided not to track it with the 5.7L. My friend’s shop where I had the suspension done actually specializes in race cars, and I let him take the car out for what we’ll call an extremely spirited drive, and we both decided that it has tons of pickup, but after a few launches, the trans is very not happy with being pushed (keep in mind the trans has 167k on it). I’m about to begin hunting for a bigger HEMI so I can sell the 5.7, and then do a trans swap to a manual (what I want), and once the car is finished, I have every intention of going to track days and autocross with it. I’m just at a point where I don’t want to put money into a transmission that needs a rebuild when my plans are to replace the trans outright.

I would go for a slow track day, but the rear diff in the car has wear and is not doing so great. I get lots of noise, and need to basically rebuild the entire rear, so money in, money out.

You can expect to see some more videos of me at tracks once I start the motor build, and I get into the suspension tuning.

m2m, apex detective > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/25/2015 at 12:03

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I’m used to driving with zee torque, last DD for years was a two-litre common-rail Diesel hatchback. I would still prefer gasoline engines for their more lively nature and engine note, but turbo failure sounds like a major turn-off ... isn’t it the Golf V GTI engine the vRS shares?

-this space for rent- > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 12/25/2015 at 23:00

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I’ve always been a fan of the ATE DOT 4. Alternating between blue and Amber/clear to be sure it’s flushed out. Although it seems uncle Sam has decided blue brake fluid runs afoul of the law so I don’t know how easy it is to get the blue anymore.

TL;DR - high dry boiling point = good