So the Rx-vision is NOT a drivable car...

"Flavien Vidal" (flyingfrenchy)
10/28/2015 at 07:24 • Filed to: None

No drivetrain, nothing... overheard a discussion between Mr Maeda and somebody and the car has no engine or transmission...

So as of now, the engine may have a name, but that’s as far as it goes...

Sorry for the disappointment guys. No working new rotary car for now :(

DISCUSSION (35)

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 07:30

whelp, at least it’s zero emissions

pip bip - choose Corrour > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 07:33

spanfucker retire bitch > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 07:35

I figured as much yesterday when you look at how the whole front of the car is basically one giant piece of continuous sheet metal.

Nauraushaun > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 07:37

So as of now, the engine may have a name, but that’s as far as it goes...

I very much doubt that that’s as far as it goes. That’s as far as they’re willing to show publicly, I guess. I think a lot of first-showing concepts aren’t drivable, especially when they’re intended to feature such an innovative type of engine.

PS9 > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 07:40

That does not bode well for the Skyactiv-R. Surely they would have said so if they had all the problems associated with rotary engines sorted. Even a functioning prototype would have been nice.

Real talk; Big block fuel economy, engine rebuilds every 50k miles or so and V6 Camry levels of power are not going to work for a $40k sportscar in 2017 (or whenever they choose to launch the market-ready version of this thing). The Skyactiv-R is make-or-break for the next RX, and hitting the right targets with a rotary is not gonna be easy...

jkm7680 > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 07:41

LOL, I said that yesterday.

I’m telling ya, it’s vaporware.

vondon302 > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 07:41

Click bait!

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > PS9
10/28/2015 at 07:46

Electric is technically rotary. Come to think of it, a rotary would be a perfect "sports hybrid" candidate.

Flavien Vidal > PS9
10/28/2015 at 07:47

I’ve also overheard a bunch of journalist arguing about seeing some electrical motors to help out the torque and gas consumption... Who knows everything is possible...

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 08:11

No, it just doesn’t have any cylinders . Just further confirmation that the RX9 is coming!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PS9
10/28/2015 at 08:13

I think that a wankel is an engine that’s desperate for an ERS and electric motor. It’s smaller and lighter than a conventional ICE, so the batteries and motor won’t be as huge of a weight addition. Super high-revving NA motor that screams but with some torque as well? Yes, please!

Rico > Nauraushaun
10/28/2015 at 08:17

Yeah I think they are just giving people a taste. There’s the North America Auto show in January, New York Auto Shown in April and Frankfurt a year from now in Sept. They are likely going to go further in detail at one of those.

Chariotoflove > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 08:38

I don’t see the point of introducing this concept until the engine is in it, since the engine is the real point of the exercise. It's not like they had some kind of deadline to rush toward.

BREADwagon > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 08:55

Sorry, but...no shit. It would be near impossible for Mazda to unveil a moving prototype without anyone in the industry seeing mules out there (not of the car profile, but another vehicle with the rotary drivetrain).

This seems more like Mazda is showing that they are dead serious about bringing this to market, and are probably gauging the market’s reaction to the concept.

Look at the FT-86 concept we got in 2009. They just unveiled that they would be using a boxer 4 with D-4S, but it was still in development at the time. Clearly we still got the car, but they showed the concept of the car and what their goals were. How is Mazda’s RX-V any different?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove
10/28/2015 at 08:59

Concept cars used to be just that: design concepts. It’s only in recent years that makers are more and more only showing “concepts” that are actually near-production reveals of future product.

With the positive reaction this thing gets, I think they will move forward and develop it and bring it to market, but we’ll see.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 09:00

Concept cars used to be just that: design concepts. It’s only in recent years that makers are more and more only showing “concepts” that are actually near-production reveals of future product.

With the positive reaction this thing gets, I think they will move forward and develop it and bring it to market, but we’ll see.

Thanks for the up-to-the minute pictures and info yesterday!

BREADwagon > Nauraushaun
10/28/2015 at 09:01

Exactly. I would venture to say that all concepts are just that, and not having a working drivetrain doesn’t mean much. If we don’t see any mules in 18 months or so...then there’s reason to worry.

We were seeing mules for the ND in Sep ‘13, almost exactly a year before its official unveiling. So assuming a slower development cycle, if we don’t see any developments in a year and a half, we’d be looking at a finished car in more than 3 years.

BREADwagon > Chariotoflove
10/28/2015 at 09:06

I have to disagree. They are showing they are seriously looking at entering back into the full-on sports car segment (not the roadster segment which...I think they have down). For instance, when the FT86 concept first rolled around, they didn’t have a boxer to show for it at the show, but the concept of a boxer with direct injection was discussed.

This is just the birth of the possibility of the road car. They created a lot of buzz, and now people will second guess whether or not their rotary program is dead.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 10:07

That front end is too damn long IMO.

A rotary is like 18” long why do they need a 7ft long hood?

I think it would look tidier if it were a bit smaller.(smaller also equals lighter.

In my mind I’m picturing a modern version of the FD. Same overall size just higher tech.

The FD was/is pretty much automotive perfection. For a car to still look this good 20+ years later means they did it right.

Kinja'd!!!

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 10:27

I’ll panic if we go a couple of years without hearing about it.

I do like the looks, though. Very AMG GT.

SantaRita > PS9
10/28/2015 at 10:48

The “best ever” Series 6 rx-7 has “Big block fuel economy, engine rebuilds every 50k (85K edit) miles or so and V6 Camry levels of power”

and prices are rising. supply and demand. not enough of a good thing.

To wit, there are 4 VW Golf R MT in the USA right now with blown top ends due to overrevv...and that’s not something you’d hear about because it’s just another typical piston engine failure, not some ‘weird’ engine you can blame instead of bad driving, neglected maintenance, and backyard tuning

Rotaries have drawbacks, but they offer something unique as well that raw numbers dont reveal.

fwiw, here’s someone blowing an LS

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
10/28/2015 at 10:56

Really? What about from the vehicle towing it?

BILL-LONGDICK-CLINTON > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 11:08

Ah. The only way it will ever have a reliable drivetrain.

PS9 > SantaRita
10/28/2015 at 12:22

...and they followed up with the RX8 whose most notable feature was a totally unacceptable ratio of performance, maintenance and reliability.

The saddest part of this argument is that you think 4 destroyed cars is a significant sample size. Are we really supposed to ignore the tens of millions of piston engine cars on the road that go hundreds of thousands of miles between major service because of that? That’s not how that works.

It’s not just the ‘weird’ engines that face ‘bad driving, neglected maintenance, and backyard tuning’. They all do. But it’s the weird engine that has abnormally high rates of failure and non-trivially bad costs of ownership, so yes, it will be the weird engine design that receives the blame. ‘You don’t understand! It’s weird and different!’ is not an argument for purchase that can be made to consumers who’ve had their expectations for maintenance and reliability set by the rest of the market. Like it or lump it, the fate of this new RX is in their hands, not those of hardcore dorito heads. The new Skyactiv-R has to meet those expectations if the car has a chance at success, and even then, we’re just getting started.

SpeedYellow > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 12:23

Just one glance shows it’s not driveable — after a half inch of suspension travel, the tires would hit the fenders, even if they’re brought inboard a bit. The front quarter panel would have to be completely overhauled to make this driveable.

Chariotoflove > BREADwagon
10/28/2015 at 12:28

I would agree with you if Mazda had introduced a sports car and said it will be powered by Skyactive tech of some performance variety, or if they said it would have a high-performance piston engine, or if they didn’t mention the engine at all. But they specifically named it with an “RX” and used it to promote the revival of the rotary.

Now, Mazda has kept the mystique of the rotary alive among the faithful (i.e: arguably almost anyone who loves cars) by dropping hints that it’s part of their DNA while managing expectations with statements that there is no business case for one in the foreseeable future. So, they artfully kept the rumor mill on a steady simmer and kept the world primed to receive the bombshell of a new rotary when they wished to drop it. Just look at all the buzz when they released a shadowy pic. Everyone immediately said, “rotary?, please rotary!”

So they had everyone ready for a real drop-the-mic reveal of the reincarnated rotary whenever they wanted, and then they released...

...a rotary concept with no rotary in it, or apparently anywhere near ready to put in it. It’s like getting the automotive world hyped up with the most exquisite foreplay, and then giving it a ruined orgasm. If they had just waited until they had a rotary engine to put in the thing, even a prototype engine that they wouldn’t trust to drive more than onto the stage, then they would have had maximum impact. So this isn’t a total disappointment, but I see their timing as missing an opportunity.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Flavien Vidal
10/28/2015 at 13:40

I figured it would be a styling exercise. Many concept cars are design concepts... not near-production concepts.

There will probably be another, perhaps 2 more concepts as the project nears production. The first intro almost never has mechanicals in place... it is a billboard to gauge interest, to see if the project should even continue to spend R&D money.

SantaRita > PS9
10/28/2015 at 15:50

I still see plenty of rx8 on the roads and handling is ALSO a metric of performance. You can’t get weight that low in any other packaging other than electric. flaws, yes, payoffs, also yes.

That’s a brand new fully awarded and critically lauded motor ...there are only 980 total 15R in the USA, small percent with a MT and they only handed the first ones out in February... so all very low mileage. Small sample size but small data pool to begin with. point being that even the “best of the best” are imperfect.

I could list the dozens of VAG motors since 1998 that have crazy (and very expensive) issues from the factory ...I just picked on the latest. My A6 averages 18mpg, and has factory allowable oil consumption of 1L per 1000 miles...puts it at higher oil use than the typical rotary. Coming from that it’s not much of a consumables penalty from the consumer side until you remember that my a6 is a 3900lb wagon. If im going from kids to no kids, I might accept that.

The fate of the rx-cars will always be on the fringe and i doubt sales will even approach that of the Miata’s. It’s already a coupe, and was always a bit more for the hardcore than the commuter class. If its cheaper than a cayman and close in performance (like mazda-porsche always), it will always have the lease/ new with a warranty crowd down market.

LP-5Zillion-4 > Chariotoflove
10/28/2015 at 19:24

Their timing is perfect. It’s smart not to show all their cards yet and stop the hype machine from getting out of control. Point in case: NSX. That car was previewed way too early in its development.

Chariotoflove > LP-5Zillion-4
10/28/2015 at 20:35

In fact, I think the case of the NSX makes the point for waiting longer until the RX engine is further developed before announcing this car. Time will tell if they jumped too early based on how long it takes to get a working engine in the car.

Fresh-Outta-Nissans > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
10/28/2015 at 22:54

Well, that goes for any RX-7 too.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
10/29/2015 at 17:33

LP-5Zillion-4 > Chariotoflove
10/29/2015 at 17:43

I see how that could be argued either way. But I’m just happy that we’ll see a rotary again probably by 2017. Not sure if it’ll be on the road by then or just the final concept

Chariotoflove > LP-5Zillion-4
10/29/2015 at 18:09

Me too. Ecstatic!

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
10/29/2015 at 22:09

LOL *snort*