The Fox Boss Project Part 1.1 - I think I found the motor I want to build!

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
08/30/2014 at 11:59 • Filed to: Fox Boss

From what I can gather, the 5.0 High Outputs have forged internals, and that sounds pretty awesome from what I can gather. What say you all?

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DISCUSSION (95)

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 12:10

I think they were roller can motors too. The one in the '79 Capri is at least.

Tohru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 12:10

Don't do a 5 liter. Fuckin' EVERYBODY with Mustangs does fuckin' 5 liters. Drop a fuckin' Windsor in there. It's the same size as the 5 liter but it's a 5.8L and it can use a lot of the same performance stuff as the 5 liter.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/pts/457697…

crowmolly > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 12:15

Not trying to be a dick, but saying "forged internals" is kind of a BS term. If you have forged pistons that's technically "forged internals" but there's a big difference between that and something with a fully forged rotating assembly.

In this case we are talking forged pistons (TRW), forged rods, and a roller cam from 87-92. Cast crankshaft.

jovimon7 > Tohru
08/30/2014 at 12:23

The 5.0 is a windsor and the 5.8 is not the same size, it has a one inch taller deck height so its also wider that the 5.0. The 5.8 is also naturally heavier and takes different headers for correct fit. The 5.0 stroked to 347ci is very popular, the only reason to go 5.8 is for more cubic inch than that.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tohru
08/30/2014 at 12:24

That's way the hell out of the budget I want to spend on it. I was only looking to spend $200 max initially and go from there.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 12:28

Kinja'd!!!

Tohru > jovimon7
08/30/2014 at 12:29

It'll still drop right in a Mustang, don't even give me that.

Tohru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 12:31

Yeah, but your $200 5 liter needs an intake, the Windsor is complete. Plus the Windsor has more HP and torque out of the box, so you'd have to spend more than $300 to get the 5 liter to the Windsor's power level.

GhostZ > Tohru
08/30/2014 at 12:37

Blah blah, exactly what other people have probably said, but the 5.0 is a windsor and all the parts swap, except for the block and crank.

You want to do a unique Fox Body, you put a Modular, a Turbo 4 Ford, or a non-US motor. I've also seen supercharged V6s.

Fact is though, a 5.0 is still a fine choice.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > crowmolly
08/30/2014 at 12:41

Fair enough.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts
08/30/2014 at 12:41

What does that mean?

GhostZ > Tohru
08/30/2014 at 12:42

Most cheap 5.8 Windsors are much less powerful than cheap 5.0 Windsors. They produce more torque, but generally have less ideal cam profiles, headers, and intakes because they're from trucks. Add that with the fact that they are noticeably taller (especially with truck intakes) they are an absolute pain to fit. If you want forced induction, it's almost impossible to package a 351 with a supercharger without having a 4-5" hood cowl, or a bigass hole in the hood.

The only 351s that are actually more powerful than 302s for the same year are the Boss 351s, and those are much rarer and more expensive.

The 351 is a better motor because of the added bulk, but a 2-bolt main 4-barrel truck 351 is way worse than a 4-bolt main FI mustang 5.0.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift
08/30/2014 at 12:42

No LS!!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tohru
08/30/2014 at 12:44

But I'm only look for around 350hp. I'm not looking for a drag car, just something simple. And EFI as well. I'm not sure I want to go the carb route.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 12:54

Well hey!

You are in some luck. I am trying to clean my garage.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/pts/464373…

^ I can give you a super-duper oppositelock discount.

Also, I heavily question that person's definition of "newly rebuilt". Ask for specifics.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 12:55

Why not, theres no down side.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 13:01

if its a roller motor, then that means it has roller lifters, there is literally a little roller that runs on the can lobe, a can shaft designed for that, and rocker arms with rollers on the ends where they contact the valve stem. All together it means less friction and a tiny bit more power.

GhostZ > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 13:01

The HOs have 'forged internals', but that doesn't mean they're significantly stronger. You're still pushing their limits at 400HP.

The ideal short-deck windsor block is a 302 Mexican-built (Hecho en Mexico) block. However, they didn't come in Fox Bodies, so I'm not sure if you need some modifications to fit one.

You might be able to go to a pick-and-pull junkyard and assemble your own motor too, if you can find one.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 13:04

I'm interested in this! Could they be shipped?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift
08/30/2014 at 13:04

Because I am a Ford guy from a Porsche/Ford family. That is heresy. -_-

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > GhostZ
08/30/2014 at 13:06

I mean I found this '95 block yesterday. Not sure if that helps much.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/pts/458167…

GhostZ > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 13:11

What exactly are you looking for? A new block, or an engine? The block is cheap, but getting the whole assembled engine is more difficult. Heads, cam, valves, springs, pushrods, rockers, oil pan, and god knows how many other components are going to run you far more than $200.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > GhostZ
08/30/2014 at 13:13

I'm looking for the most complete motor I can get now. And then I'll just upgrade or rebuild it. That's why I asked about the 5.0L HO I found for $200. Would that not be a good start?

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 13:15

Alright, time out though.

Question: What is the goal of this car?

I see three possible paths.

1) Speeeeeeed Demon.

2) Livable V8

3) Cheap as possible V8.

You need to pick one of these goals and stick with it.

For Speeeeeeed Demon, you need to buy a fully done engine.

Example: http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/pts/464366…

For the Livable V8, you should get a complete engine still, and then tear it down if you feel like it.

Example: http://swmi.craigslist.org/pts/4604415374… / http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/4603696646…

For the Cheap as Possible V8, just stick with a carbed engine and accept that it will not be fast or get great gas mileage.

Example: http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/4634064805… / http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/4640361321…

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 13:19

It is possible. I would have to get it priced, but it would probably be in the $25-$40 range I think :/

GhostZ > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 13:20

That would be a good start, but you'll need to make sure you have engine mounts, transmission mounts, crossmember, etc. all in order. Try to get as close to your year and model as possible to minimize overlap costs. Really though, if $200 is all you can afford, I would be extremely hesitant on starting on any engine swap.

I would still recommend trying to find a Junkyard that will let you pick your own parts, that way while you may not find a single complete motor, you might be able to get enough parts to put together a working motor for the price.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 13:23

Can I have livable and cheap? With at least 350hp? I want this to be as simple as possible. And cheap. I don't care about gas mileage. Just 350hp minimum and cheap and livable. For $200 max?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 13:25

I'd be alright with that. No rush at all.

crowmolly > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts
08/30/2014 at 13:26

And you do not need to get special oil with ZDDP in it.

And you will not have your asshole pucker when breaking in a new cam, wondering if it will immediately wipe a lobe or not.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 13:51

350 HP at the wheels? Or at crank(300ish at wheels)?

Because the only way you are staying in a sub 500 budget for a RUNNING engine is if you get completely free machine shop work.

I am JUST finishing the rebuild of my 1969 302, so I'm going to tell you two things. One, don't spread the actual rebuild over too long. You forget what you torqued, what needed clearances checked, and mistakes are made more frequently. Two, get a kit, like one of those Amazon ones. Not worth it to putz around, trying to find What matches what and if this is the right fit.

Realistically, aim for 250 HP.

The parts pricing to reach that 300 HP number seems to ratchet up because it's some magic number "eye roll".

Also, if you want that power for less money, get REALLY friendly with someone with the tools for porting and polishing.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > GhostZ
08/30/2014 at 13:58

Just $200 for the motor. I'll do other things as time progresses.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 13:58

250hp is fine then. Would something like this be more acceptable?

http://saginaw.craigslist.org/pts/4611216440…

http://saginaw.craigslist.org/pts/4624248529…

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 14:15

That second one is definitely the better of the two. Now here's a lesson I had to learn the hard way when dealing with older engines: hardened seats. The spots where the exhaust valves rest when they're not letting exhaust gasses out gets ground down when unleaded gas has been used. Leaded gas used to cushion this. So the plus side of using a newer engine is that these resting areas (seats) use harder metals to not grind down as much.

The price to put hardened seats in?

Just got mine back with a 450 dollar machine shop bill.

Now the alternative to this is that you have to put lead additive in EVERY time you put gas in it, and you hope that the previous owner did the same.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 14:23

This is getting more complex than I thought. This doesn't scare me away from doing this, but this is a whole lot of things I didn't know about.

I'm actually questioning where I want to go with this car. I'd like it to be a car that could be daily driven all year round, but carbs seem like a bad idea in winter. EFI is out of budget, but I'm not looking to complete the motor by the end of the year. I want this project to take a couple years or as long as it takes; which I'd be okay with an incomplete motor for the most part.

What's bothering me is that I still can't figure out what's wrong with the HO I posted up top? All it needs is an intake and I could work on the rest of the motor too. It's also the newest motor on CL and it's priced alright.

But since this is my first project, it doesn't have to be perfect either.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 14:26

And just to clear something up, I really want this to go through, for you to build this. I'm just trying to share what I've experienced having a car and no engine for it, then trying to rebuild a 302 up to stock and the challenges I faced.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 14:33

I'm a bit lost honestly. I need a new starting point. EFI is what I need for this to be an all year car. But it's expensive. Carbs could work, but it seems to complex for what I need? My only objective right now is to get the motor and work on it. EFI/carbs can come later and so will the donor car.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 14:40

I think the one up top is fine also, I just doubt the 'newly rebuilt' claim with the surface rust and dust.

Ask as many detailed questions as you can, though, such as "does it include the fuel rail and injectors?" "Are the ignition coils there?" "What exactly was replaced in the rebuild and what was reused?" You would definitely need to see it in person, check under the valve covers, and ask many, many questions.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 14:56

Is that rust?? I don't think I want a rusty motor...

From what I can see, it looks like it was rebuilt with all the original parts if it looks that bad. I'll avoid it and keep searching.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 15:14

It's okay to be a bit lost, this is the most complicated part of the whole car. It's several systems within a system.

Building a car is expensive, period. It used to be cheaper in the past, but with things like craigslist and eBay, there's a larger market with more demand, so prices on anything used have gone up. Same goes for 'original' (I hate that term) parts. For example, my dad bought a used cross member for our '66 Mustang in 1992 for $3.50 at a swap meet.

That same cross member is now $50-$60.

My advice is to keep working a little and save up a bit more to increase the budget. Trying to keep everything minimal budget is doable, but one misstep (Anything from poor quality piston rings, to not getting any mating surfaces cleaned or planed) will take what you have into it and flush it down the tubes. The more you can put up front, the more you will save.

Before I had the '70 I'm working on now, I would look for something, and I noticed that all the good deals come around Sept and Oct for people who don't want to store their extra cars. Maybe save until then to see if you can get the car with engine and all at that point.

Also, if you still want just the engine to work on, look for complete mid-nineties Explorer engines too.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 15:28

I'd like an engine just to work on for now. That being said, It seems impossible to find Explorer 5.0s on Craigslist unless I'm doing it wrong. I'll save some more and raise motor budget accordingly but I'll still be looking.

EDIT: what about this? Seems complete and maybe could be useful?

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/pts/461232…

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 15:38

That's surface rust on the outside accessories, which is not a terrible thing, but it does indicate that it has sat either for a time without running or just outside. If you have time and a wire wheel on a drill, that can look brand new.

Honestly, if you're going off that one picture, it doesn't show much in terms of condition of the parts that really matter, the internals. I would ask the seller for more pictures: a side profile, an under the valve cover shot, and a shot of the valley since the intake is off.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 15:50

Trust me, I've got lots of time for this. I'll ask. It's the most complete motor for my budget and even if it needs work, it's probably more setup for EFI than any motor I can find for said budget.

Would you say that I'm in the right by going with that motor?

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 15:52

That one up top looks ok to me. I'm not sure what you have to start with, but getting all the pulleys and brackets you need along with the engine is a pretty good deal IMO. Note: 86-92 (I think I have the year range right?) Mustang 5.0 engines came with forged pistons only, not a forged "bottom" end, which usually means that the pistons, rods and crankshaft are forged. Also, that doesn't really matter as it is likely you will need to replace the pistons for your build.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 15:55

I've got nothing but a bunch of tools laying around and a space to work on it. Does the fact that they're forged give me any benefits?

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:12

The fact that the trans comes with makes this a great deal for what it is, but is it a good deal for you?

Could be, the problem with the '75 truck engine is that it has the lowest horsepower of all the 302s: 122HP.

You would need to swap out the cam, timing gears, pistons, exhaust headers and distributor plus port and polishing work to get any sort of power near 225.

But if you swap the camshaft, the valve train needs to match, so that's new pushrods and rockers too. Plus you'd want to change out bearings while you're there. If you're lucky, you don't have to replace the lifters.

So we hit this budget problem again. Which in turn begs the question: how much are you going to spend over how long?

You can save and get a decent engine for 800 to 900 with all the things you want. But it sounds like you want to build, to learn. That also has a price.

If you get the 200 dollar motor, be ready to spend 600(bare minimum) to 900 to get the power you want, learning along the way.

It does cost more, but the knowledge is invaluable. I would not be able to tell you any of these things if I had not dumped $1100 (including the engine price) into the 302.

If you try to go full cheapness though, it'll end up like my Jeep I rebuilt, coughing up valve train and end caps after 4 months. I put $300 into rebuilding that 4.7 hipo Chrysler, cutting every corner I could possibly cut. Gave up and sold it for next to nothing, and I miss it all the time.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:17

Sure, if they are in good enough condition to be reused.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:22

If money is more valuable than time and under the valve covers doesn't look terrible, I think it's a fine choice!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 16:23

I want the knowledge the most out all of this in the end. It's something I've always wanted to learn and do. I would like to say that the max I'd like to spend long-term is an additional $1500-2000 over the next 3-4 years on top of the initial price of the motor.

I don't want to go full on cheapness and watch the work be destroyed because I was cheap. I want to do this on a lowest budget that'll give me the best parts I can afford. If all I need is $600-900 to build it then that's alright. I'm ready to learn as soon as I can get that first motor.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 16:26

That's good to hear. I'd replace them at some point but having some reusable parts isn't that bad is it.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:29

Alright, now there's a semblance of a plan here :D Feel free to e-mail me at austinandson@gmail.com

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:33

Nope, reusable parts is good!

Note: The 86 - ?? stock forged pistons will likely need to be fly cut to clear the bigger valves in the aluminum heads though.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 16:33

Cool. I'll keep it on the list at the top; but my Fox Body friend is still insistent that I look for an Explorer block? Is it really all that necessary for what I want?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 16:36

Okay. I'll keep that in mind. Anything else I should be aware of before I go further?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 16:41

Thanks so much! :D

Unless my Fox friend is adamant about the Explorer block, I'll shoot this HO motor an email.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:42

No, the Explorer engine block is not any better/different than a regular Mustang block as far as I know. The Explorer intakes are an inexpensive upgrade source, but not that great for what you want. The engines are ok, but they are built more for low end grunt than performance and you will probably be changing most of it anyways. However, if you can procure one for really cheap and it has the roller cam, then go for it.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:46

Yes, get an inexpensive die grinder (not a Dremel they are too small and take too long to work with) and some regular and extended length bits/sanding rolls when you can. Then we will discuss ways to improve oiling, oil return and airflow.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 16:52

The Explorer blocks had GT40 (non-P) heads, which have higher compression.

http://www.fiveohinfo.com/performance/gt…

I'm more of a fan of making better flow (exhaust headers and better intakes and bigger valves) than increasing compression because compression creates more of a strain on the components and requires higher octane gas, but flow only gets you so much power.

That feeds into the speed vs livable aspect of engine building.

I'm sure you have found this site but it's my favorite for EFI 302 knowledge:

http://www.fiveohinfo.com/performance/ba…

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 16:54

I'm noticing that the roller cam is constantly brought up here. Is it the same as the camshaft or related? It's making me think about that short block I found before. A nice and clean start. Or go with the HO with all the parts and no intake and sell of the parts I don't need or set them aside? This is the deciding factor in which one I'll buy.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 17:08

Yes, it is the camshaft. A "roller" cam uses lifters with "rollers" on the bottom of them to contact the cam. This leads to less friction and more radical camshaft profiles, both of which make more power.

Which engine you buy doesn't really matter as the block can be converted to use a roller cam, but it is easier and cheaper in the long run to just go with a roller cam block. Also keep in mind that depending on what you get for a car, that you may need all the pulleys and brackets as well. An HO 5.0 would be best IMO.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 17:19

I understand more now. Is there a way to tell which motors have the roller cam? I think you mentioned to me that the '95 short block I found yesterday had the roller cam?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/30/2014 at 17:21

If that's the case then I don't really need the Explo block then. These sites will be most helpful in my project.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 17:27

Look at the manufacturer number on the block. If it starts with E (80s) 86 (year manf) or up it should be a roller cam block.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 17:51

*Grumbles*

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 17:52

Ok, will do. How much would it be to convert if it isn't?

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 17:57

IIRC around $50-$100 at most.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 18:02

That's not that bad actually. I was expecting something more wallet grabbing, but I'm not so scared about that anymore. :P

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 18:08

No it really isn't all that bad, but I always try to plan for that "moment" when I realize my wants and desires have greatly outpaced my monetary resources. ;)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 18:14

I think I'll go for the 5.0 HO after reading this info here:

At the heart of the '91 GT was that old friend - the 5.0L HO - complete with all the bells and whistles from the prior year: a mass airflow sensor, 60mm throttle body, tuned length aluminum intake plenum, 19 lb-hr injectors, E7TE truck heads, roller lifter cam, remote low-restriction air cleaner, and EEC-IV electronics system. Also found as standard equipment once again were the GT's stainless steel exhausts teamed up with stainless steel tubular headers, 10.84-inch front brakes and the GT handling suspension consisting of progressive rate springs, 1.3 inch front anti-sway bar, 0.83 inch rear anti-sway bar and gas pressurized struts with rear quadra-shocks .

If this is the roller cam you're talking about, I'm gonna go ahead and buy this motor.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/30/2014 at 18:24

Yep, that's it a "roller lifter cam" or roller cam as it is more commonly called.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/30/2014 at 18:28

Nice! :D

We may have found our first piece of the puzzle.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/31/2014 at 12:07

Mustang Corral forum told me to stick to carbs because they're:

"infinitely easier to install than an efi system if you have nothing to start with, especially for someone that is "just learning". they are also easier to tune for a beginner imo unless you are a computer expert and know what a 10 zillion terabyte processor or flux capacitor is are."

Is this true? Are carbs really that much easier to tune?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/31/2014 at 12:08

Question?

Mustang Corral forum told me to stick to carbs because they're:

Is this true? Are carbs really that much easier to tune?

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/31/2014 at 13:05

Yes, they are much cheaper and easier.

The EFI system needs a good computer,(100 to 150) good sensors(10 to 20 a piece times, like, a dozen), and good wiring(I don't even know). Not a problem if you can get the FULL setup. The carb(50 to 100 dollars) is a rebuild kit (50 dollars) and new choke (50ish? Usually the one on the carb is usable) from operating like new.

So you might need an intake (30ish for iron, 80 to 110 for aluminum dual plane), then carb, then air cleaner (20ish to 40ish) That second carbed one you asked about (the 175 one) would work well, and I think it already has an intake on it.

There's tons of videos on how to clean and tune carbs, so knowledge isn't an issue.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
08/31/2014 at 13:57

Maybe it would be better to do that the first time around. and it would be more traditional and more of a homage to the idea of a Boss 302. I think I'll give that a go this time and maybe in the future do EFI.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/31/2014 at 17:32

I have worked a good bit with carburetors myself having grown of age when they were still being installed on cars by the manufacturers, and in reality they are not that much, if any easier to tune "properly", nor are they that much cheaper in the long run. As someone "just learning" in this day and age of computer controlled cars you are much better off IMO starting with the simpler EFI system of the 89-93 Mustangs than regressing all the way back to carburetors, but the choice is yours.

You can pick up a book (if you can find it these days) by Alex Warlordy called Supertuning Holley Carburetors to get an idea of the actual intricacies of properly tuning a carburetor. You will find after reading it that what most people online call "tuning a carburetor" is not even close nor accurate and that carburetors could really use tuning for all sorts of different altitudes, humidity and air temperatures, ( most people don't do that, which leads to them running crappy at times ) whereas an EFI system does that for you on the fly.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
08/31/2014 at 18:35

Could you give me an idea of what it actually means to "tune" a carb? Is it metaphorically akin to tuning a violin?

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/31/2014 at 19:25

Hahaha, not quite, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Tuning a carb, entails removing and closely inspecting the spark plugs ( usually done right after a high speed/rpm run in which you get out of the throttle and shut the engine off to avoid low speed plug contamination ) to see what is going on inside the cylinders so you know what you need to do ( go richer or leaner ) along with several other "tuning" aspects such as the accelerator pump shot length & volume ( so it accelerates smoothly without hesitation ), possibly changing the primary & secondary jets ( to richen or lean each as indicated by plug readings ), possibly having to change air bleeds ( to get the proper mixture when jet changes don't quite work ), secondary diaphragm springs ( for smooth, proper engagement of the secondaries ), power valves ( for the correct amount of fuel/air ), backfire check valve inspection ( to insure a backfire has not taken out your power valve diaphragm ) and probably a few other things I have forgotten.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/06/2014 at 19:55

I struck gold!! What do you think of this for $100!

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-fox-boss-p…

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
09/06/2014 at 19:56

What do you think about my find? It's only $100!!

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-fox-boss-p…

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/06/2014 at 23:17

Fuck yeah! Get all the wiring harness and computer too if you can JIC.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/06/2014 at 23:31

Awesome! What is JIC?

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/06/2014 at 23:38

Just In Case, you need it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/06/2014 at 23:43

Will do! I'm gonna grab everything I can out of that engine bay!

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/06/2014 at 23:45

Good idea! Easier to toss it later if it's not needed than to go back and try to find it if it is.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/06/2014 at 23:59

Exactly! I love where this is going! :)

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/07/2014 at 00:51

Me too! More power, more torque, more awesome....

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/07/2014 at 01:08

Epic Win!! And I can rebuild it, then It should have enough power stock with minimal parts to be enough for the project. :)

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/07/2014 at 01:25

Yep, it should be able to furnish you with plenty of power. I would however, recommend a good set of aluminum heads at the very least. Ford heads are really restrictive from the factory for the most part and a good set of aluminum heads on a SBF have been proven to unleash as much as 100 HP on a 5.0 ( using 165 AFR heads ), so maybe even more gain is possible on the 5.8.

Once you decide which way you are going with the engine build (NA or Forced Induction) I will be happy to share with you what I have learned over the years building them if you wish.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/07/2014 at 01:36

That's a part worth replacing then, will keep that in mind for sure. I plan to keep it NA in tradition with classic 'Murican muscle and because a turbo is way the hell out of the budget if I wanna get this done within 6 years lol. One day maybe, but for now I'll be sticking NA; I've already got enough turbo with the ST haha. :)

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/07/2014 at 01:43

Good. Now then, how much power do you want to make and is premium fuel only ok?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/07/2014 at 01:52

Gas is of no issue to me, 87 or 93, I'd like at least 300hp at the wheels please. :)

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/07/2014 at 01:56

300 HP will be a relatively easy goal to achieve I think. I will research my records and see if I can come up with a good inexpensive combo for you. Do you want/prefer carbureted or injected?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/07/2014 at 02:04

I'm okay with either, but it'll depend on what injection parts are still on the motor. If the whole EFI system is there and needs very little work then I'll keep it for now; if it's not worth dealing with because of poor condition then I'll sell the remains and go carbed.

Philbert/Phartnagle > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
09/07/2014 at 02:08

Ok, let's see what you get once you have it all in hand.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Philbert/Phartnagle
09/07/2014 at 02:20

Will do. :)