Cat Deletes Are For Jerks

"gabbo241" (gabbo241) 08/13/2014 at 11:10 • Filed to: cat deletes, environment, rants

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Lately, you may have noticed the coastal elites in the press have picked up on the trend of hicks modifying their trucks to "roll coal."

Normally, I'd leave that stuff for the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! folks. But lately I've noticed a lot of enthusiasm on Jalopnik and Oppo for "straight pipe/cat delete" exhaust systems. And I have to admit that I've been laughing maniacally at all manner of strange beasts running straight pipes: an S80 V8, former "country club special" LS430s, Toyota 4Runners, you name it. It sounds good with a bent-8 and no cats.

But here's the thing. Cat deletes are for anti-social jerks.

60 years ago, this is how bad LA's smog was:

This woman, by the way, is wiping away tears because the smog is making her eyes water.

In 1975, the US government began requiring catalytic converters on all passenger cars in the US. Smog conditions in the United States rapidly improved and there was a huge reduction in airborne carcinogens and acid rain.

The fact of the matter is that gearheads ought to be mindful of environmental stewardship, because we are under suspicion of indifference, and the long term health of our hobby depends on the health of the environment. Hunters join Ducks Unlimited to protect duck habitats, and so should we balance our enthusiasm for the automobile with a sense of civic duty.

The only possible "justification" for cat deletes is that the aggregate environmental impact is small because only a few people do it. But this isn't a justification. It's just selfishness hiding behind other people's willingness to do the right thing, abide by the law, and in doing so benefit the community.

And one more thing. If Mercedes can make a catted, SULEV, twin-turbo vehicle sound like this:

CLS 63 AMG

You have no excuse. Buy a well-engineered aftermarket exhaust instead of taking the easy way out and deleting the cats. Do it for your city. Do it for your neighbors. Do it for the future of car culture.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:14

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Rolling coal is the reason most of my car enthusiast friends can't stand diesel trucks, myself included. They're all a bunch of assholes, purposely rolling coal on pedestrians and bystanders just standing and sitting around trying to have a good time. Hate them like I hate Donks, accept Donks don't roll coal.

coriolis > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:15

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I met one of them recently...

Nibbles > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:17

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I've performed cat deletes, and I'm proud of it. Cats are expensive and when you're young, living off a grocery store wage, and your cat clogs up, fuckin' just rip the summbitch off and call it a day

Then again my town only had like 6,000 people. The refineries did a better job of polluting the area than my little Toyota did

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:17

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My problem is a low number of options for a good aftermarket catted header for the FR-S. There is a primary cat on the header and a secondary on the front pipe. A few performance manufacturers offer hi-flow catted options, but most do away with the cats completely. Unfortunately the Tomei EL header I really want is one of the uncatted options. :(

crowmolly > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:17

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It stems from a degree of ignorance in my opinion.

Back in the 70's all you got was a pellet cat that weighed a ton and choked the engine.

Now? A very minor horsepower loss, if any at all. The technology has come pretty far. I put two high flow bullet cats on my Trans Am and it lost no power at all. When it had no cats the fuel smell was also a PITA.

If you want your car to be noisy then just run less of a muffler.

The other part is the "stickin it to the MAN" feeling of removing any parts not associated with speed. Which is the same type of feeling that made the world bacon crazy over the past few years.

Nibbles > coriolis 08/13/2014 at 11:19

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+1 for Gorillaz in the background

For Sweden > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:19

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The Alfa Romeo 4C: A car for Jerks

Chris Clarke > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:23

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I'm not so sure that catalytic converters really contribute to pollution control, but believe what you want.

http://www.impulsengine.com/newproducts/ca…

camaroboy68ss > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:23

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now I hate guys who roll coal but I'm not against going cat-less on a car. Now most of my cars are pre cat required cars but, even a hi performance cat leaves hp on the table. Part of the problem lies in how a particular area tests emissions for plate tags. Some actually check to make sure the cat is there and working while others just don't even bother

yamahog > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:24

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The asshat previous owner of my XJ ripped off the cat and threw on a cheap cherry bomb :( my exhaust is rusted up to the headers, and my only defense to my marine biologist sister is that I'm not procreating so that shrinks my footprint considerably.

Jayhawk Jake > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:24

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But my well engineered aftermarket exhaust deletes the primary cat....

I'm getting rid of that one, but don't worry, I have a second.

gabbo241 > For Sweden 08/13/2014 at 11:26

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4C has no muffler but has a cat, I assume?

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:29

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Materiality isn't in your favor. The number of people doing this is less than 1% of car owners, and probably only 1% of enthusiasts, and there are no appreciable local externalities to it. Sure, you can bitch about it in theory, but in practice you're complaining about something with effects that are so low they're immeasurable.

rotundapig > Chris Clarke 08/13/2014 at 11:32

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Yeah, I'm not sure the snake oil website is a reliable reference.

quarterlifecrisis > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:33

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Something worth noting - diesel trucks weren't required to have cats until within the last decade.

That being said...I had a Kooks catless Y-pipe on a vehicle once. However, I'm sure I can sit here and try and come up with some BS argument that because I actually got better mileage after the vehicle was tuned, and because the nature of of the tune involved leaning out under load, it wasn't as bad as if I would've cut the cat off completely, where the computer would default to richening the mixture.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:35

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The funny thing is that the amount of pollution from things like lawn mowers, prius manufacturing, and manufacturing runoff in general far out way a few idiots deleting their cat.

BigBlock440 > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:35

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meh, most engines run clean enough without a cat. Hot Rod built a Camaro a few years back that past California emmissions tests without any emissions systems (EGR, Cats, etc.).

crowmolly > rotundapig 08/13/2014 at 11:38

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http://www.impulsengine.com/newproducts/di…

Yeah, here's what they sell.

Takuro Spirit > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:40

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When I lived in the part of this state that did not require emissions testing (literally 9/10s of WI does not) the first thing my friends and co workers would do when they bought a car was to cut off or hollow out the cats.

Yeah it sounded better and MAYYYBE increased the performance, but why pollute the air more? Because idiocy.

When (not IF, mind you) I finally LS swap my Trans Am I am putting cats on it.

Responsible hot-rodding FTW.

TheCraigy > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 08/13/2014 at 11:41

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Even a high flow cat reduces pollutants dramatically. A car running catless is probably the equivalent of about 100 honda civics. One of these rolling coal trucks is probably about 1,000, or worse. Then again, when you fire up your catless lawnmower on the weekend, you're probably spewing out more pollutants than your car has all week.

For a weekend toy that gets run on occasion, it really doesn't matter. But for people's daily drivers which hit the roads every day, it adds up. You go from almost immeasurable pollutants to a measurable amount. The closer you get to zero, the better.

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 11:55

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My Sable has 3 cats on it, I plan on deleting the last one though. I only need 2 for emissions in CT.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ 08/13/2014 at 12:03

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Reel mower brah.

I hoon, therefore I am > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 12:29

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It generally comes down to cash. For example, catted downpipes for Mazdaspeeds cost several hundred dollars more than catless. I'm planning to buy a catless downpipe for my MS6, and have debated adding a Magnaflow high-flow cat for $100. In places where emissions are not required, there is no incentive to retain emissions equipment, especially considering it usually costs more to do so.

I'll admit I have my Nova and BMW E24 on collector car insurance, so neither must meet emissions. The Nova was manufactured before cats, but I would technically be held to MY2000 emissions standards because it has an LS engine. And the BMW failed a gas tank pressure check, so it was easier (and much cheaper) to put it on collector car insurance than chase down a leak in the evaporative emissions system (though I suspect it's simply the in-tank fuel pump gasket).

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > TheCraigy 08/13/2014 at 12:30

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Materiality (a lack of) isn't undone by scale, as materiality is inherently scalable. Again, it's great in principle to think that the closer to zero the better, but it doesn't actually make an impact. If people deliberately removing their cats became a widespread phenomenon, to even reach 1 in 100 cars on the road, you might start scratching the surface of conceivable impact, but even then it seems tenuous at best.

The OP is a practical bashing of something that has support only on a philosophical basis.

TheCraigy > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 08/13/2014 at 12:41

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As the Op pointed out, we have modern technology and regulations to thank for the lack of smog filling the air (like it does today in china). It's a real thing, a real risk.

Although I do agree with you that it's probably immeasurable once in the stratosphere.... this is still polluting the air that people quite literally breathe into their lungs. When the old mopar burning oil pulls away from you at a stoplight, you breathe the fumes. So does the guy sitting on the corner waiting for the bus. It takes time for these things to dissipate, and in the meantime it is tortiously being projected onto real people.

I hate the holier-than-thou prius people just as much as any jalop, but the guy who does this to people by rolling coal or simply being a cheapskate who won't fix his car is a complete asshole.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 13:19

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From http://www.importtuner.com/features/0610i…

"After removing the OEM cat, we welded and bolted up an OBD II Magnaflow ceramic-core catalytic converter in place of the stock one. With the Magnaflow cat installed, the Honda turned the rollers to the tune of 150hp and 107 lb-ft to the wheels. The ceramic-core cat netted us an additional 3hp and 2 lb-ft to the front wheels. Obviously, this cat really can flow more than stock.

"Next up was the metallic core Magnaflow OBD II cat. Because metallic cats can take more abuse and richer AFRs (and generally flow more), these are often the choice of the performance-minded tuner. After much cursing and a bit of charred flesh, we put the fancy metallic-core cat onto the Civic. Apparently, the metallic core unit does indeed flow slightly better than the ceramic unit. But when we say slight, we mean slight. The metallic core cat netted us a 1hp gain (to 151hp) and no increase in torque over the ceramic core. So, unless you are running a rich AFR (like in a boosted application) the extra cost of the metallic core might not be worth it. However, if you are running a rich mixture, the metallic cat is still your best bet.

"With the testing of all three cats out of the way, it was time to unplug the exhaust and let her rip without that pesky brick in the exhaust. No matter how you cut it, a cat is a restriction and costs power, right? With the moment of truth at hand, we bolted in our test pipe - eliminating the cat entirely. On our final pull we stood eagerly by the dyno's monitor, waiting to see the results. Wait ... here it comes ... 152hp and 108 lb-ft - a gain of one measly horsepower and one lb-ft of torque at the cost of breaking the law."

DipodomysDeserti > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 13:26

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Deleting cats won't make your car sound much better. Deleting your mufflers will. Most people delete their mufflers without touching their cats as most cars do not have cat-back exhausts. I did this on a WRX and a Loyale.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > yamahog 08/13/2014 at 13:27

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Why would someone put a muffler where the cat went?

gabbo241 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 08/13/2014 at 13:29

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I gather from your post what you mean by "materiality" is "measurable impact at the global scale." Obviously when you zoom in and measure tailpipe emissions at the tailpipe, the difference is huge. Why is measuring at the global scale obviously preferable to measuring at the tailpipe? Consider how your argument could apply to dumping garbage at sea, or walking on the grass, or peeing in the pool. The morality of an action is not determined conclusively by the effects, much less the effects at an enormous scale of some individual's choosing. At the very least: the scale itself needs to be justified.

But more importantly, there are other considerations besides the marginal physical effects of your individual action. Otherwise any old thing that could be difficult to detect would be permissible - but that's obviously not the case. That's why the "Office Space" caper of skimming minute amounts of money from a large number of transactions is impermissible, even if its effects would have been undetectable and not damaging to any company or individual.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 13:29

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On a real note, I would like to see how much a modern car actually pollutes without a cat. I honestly think it would prove they are pointless on modern cars because of the ability to perfectly time and limit fuel.

NaturallyAspirated > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 13:46

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I'd be interested to see some dyno tests - take a car, dyno it. Then remove the cat and dyno it again. I'm willing to bet that any normal road-legal car will lose both HP and torque across the RPM range if you delete the cat.

Removing your cat is stupid. It tells me, "I hate breathing clean air." It tells me, "I don't understand how exhaust systems work." It tells me, "I'm such a self-centered ass that I care nothing for people with asthma or other respiratory problems."

Those of you complaining that the exhaust system you want isn't available in a catted version, vote with your wallet.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 14:29

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Your smog picture is also before gas was unleaded.

Diesel > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 14:38

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Counter Argument: Listen to this.

yamahog > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/13/2014 at 14:40

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Yup. The whole exhaust is a prime example of hillbilly engineering gone wrong.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > yamahog 08/13/2014 at 14:43

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It's not hillbilly. They would just cut off what needed cut off and call it a day.

yamahog > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/13/2014 at 14:44

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But glasspack, bro!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > yamahog 08/13/2014 at 14:49

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We like straight pipes down here in the south. We don't have much enforcement of the lax laws we already have.

yamahog > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/13/2014 at 14:54

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MI has zero inspections of any kind. My dad (in NY) now wants to register all his stuff under my address :/

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > yamahog 08/13/2014 at 15:07

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We have no inspections, but there are a couple of laws that say something about mufflers and converters. For the most part, those are ignored. Just don't get pulled over by a state trooper, because they will tag you for everything they can.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > For Sweden 08/13/2014 at 15:16

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Emission Controls

Four three-way catalytic converters, heated oxygen sensors, engine internal features

https://4c.alfaromeo.com/nafta/pdf/4c_A…

gabbo241 > yamahog 08/13/2014 at 16:33

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What year is the XJ?

gabbo241 > Takuro Spirit 08/13/2014 at 16:35

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You, sir, are one of the good ones.

gabbo241 > BigBlock440 08/13/2014 at 16:38

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Link?

yamahog > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 16:42

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97

BigBlock440 > gabbo241 08/13/2014 at 18:24

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http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1…

I remembered wrong. The car they bought under a buyback program to "clean up emissions" passed with only factory equipment (being built in 1967, that means pretty much none and definitely no cat). It's in the first few paragraphs. As long as it's tuned right and in good shape, most engines will burn clean enough without cats that they'll still be in compliance with a "sniffer" test. Also, you can get better fuel mileage by removing the cat on older (mid 00's) vehicles (don't have experience with new ones). Burn less fuel, release less emissions.

BigBlock440 > NaturallyAspirated 08/13/2014 at 18:36

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http://go.redirectingat.com/?id=33330X9116…

Apparently the civic with.a.G quoted above gained 5 hp an 3 ft-lbs. What was your wager?

NaturallyAspirated > BigBlock440 08/13/2014 at 20:24

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What is the margin of error on the dyno used in the article? A Google search tells me that a "nice" chassis dyno has a +/-3% margin of error, meaing that the 5 hp and 3 lb/ft are completely within the margin of error, especially since they did only one pull in each configuration.

BigBlock440 > NaturallyAspirated 08/14/2014 at 07:41

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I don't know what dyno they used, but 3% of 147 is 4.4. 5 is outside that so I think it's safe to say that it does actually increase hp. By a significant amount? Depends on how much air your pumping and the rest of the exhaust system. On that same note, I'd also like to see the difference in emissions between the runs to see how significant it really is.

NaturallyAspirated > BigBlock440 08/14/2014 at 12:42

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Well, not really, because the first run could have been up to 3% low...

I wish that article had posted the actual charts.

I certainly could be wrong about this. I'm not exactly posting up dyno charts either =P. I'm just not entirely convinced that the test in that article is repeatable.

RotaryLove > crowmolly 08/22/2014 at 07:02

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I couldn't imagine the smell of a rotary engine without cats... They already smell like oil bad enough.