Snobbishness

"Nerd-Vol" (Nerd-Vol) 08/04/2014 at 12:32 • Filed to: Snob

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So I have owned my Miata for a little over two weeks now, and I am questioning if I am starting to develop snob-like tendencies.

This is the first RWD car that I have owned, and I currently own a Mazdaspeed 3. While I love both cars very much, I have pretty much settled that the Miata will be my go to for trips up to Highway 129/The Dragon/ Deals Gap. The first time I took it up there I was delighted with it, and actually thought it was faster than the MS3. When I took it back last weekend, that proved to be false. I was trailing behind a buddy who was in his tuned Integra. Although I was having a blast, sliding around, diving into corners, he was pulling away from me. He later confirmed that with me as he said in the past he really struggled to keep up when I was in my MS3.

Despite that I know the miata will be my dragon slayer/ touge machine. I don't think that is any sort of snobbery, as this is a public road, and it is not about going fast, but enjoying yourself safely. Regardless, I could see how people could start on a path that leads them to snobbery.

That said, I AM a snob when it comes to automatic transmissions on cars produced before 2007 or so.

What are you a snob about?

qbeezy > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 12:39

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Living in Oklahoma has made me in to a coupe/sports car snop kinda. Oklahoma is mostly truck country but often times I find guys in civic is trying to race me all the time. I'm like "geez ruining 2 doors for all of us"(public perception) know who you're trying to race!

Twism > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 12:45

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sub 2 liters engine (except rotary).

I know they can be powerful and fun and efficient and everything (I almost bought a 500 Abarth, fun little kart!), but if I can buy a milk container with more capacity than your engine, it's not impressive to me.

MazdaMonkey > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 12:48

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Everyone has different interests and enjoys cars differently. Some people love super high power cars that use computers to take some of the guesswork out of the equation. Some people like cruising comfortably in style. Other's take satisfaction in knowing that their car is tuned to perfection and leaves nothing on the table. Even among the group of my closest five car friends, we all have entirely different views on cars.

I have owned all sorts of cars over the years, but ultimately settled on a Miata for my favorite fun car. It is one of the cheapest and least powerful cars I have owned, yet for me it does the basic stuff perfectly. My favorite part of driving is the actual act of driving itself. I don't car about my speed or time around a track. I just love the feel of the shifter, direct steering, and being able to go around a low speed corner at a car's limits. Sure, I can drive a technologically enhanced car like an S4 or an STI around a corner faster, but I have more fun doing it at lower speeds in the Miata.

No need to be snobby about it, though. I usually take a humble approach - it is a slow, impractical car in the end. I just like driving it too damn much to buy anything else.

As my friends get older and buy nicer and faster cars, they give me a harder time about me holding on to Miatas. Hell, I love my buddy's Ferrari 360, and wish I had room in the garage for a 3rd car, but I will never give up the Miata. It's just too dependably fun!

Jayhawk Jake > Twism 08/04/2014 at 12:50

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Haters gon hate.

I like my tiny little engine.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 12:55

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"Basic cars". A lot of people can have fun in a simple, cheap car with power nothing, tiny amounts of horsepower, etc. Plenty even prefer that type of minimalist car. Old beater econoboxes, basically. For me, those would be great for hooning until they die, but I have zero desire to drive a car that offers "as little as possible" on a daily basis. I don't care if it's character building, or makes you a better driver. As long as I don't have to, knock on wood, I won't. I guess that is being a snob in the most literal of senses.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 12:57

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I look down on most people that drive American cars . Especially people that only driver American cars. I have excepted that American automakets have REALLY stepped up their game. My time working at a Ford/Chrysler dealer changed my opinion there, and GM has quite a few products I think I'd enjoy as well(Spark lol). Also some Japanese companies have lost their way. But (from my skewed prospective)anyone driving American car (with the exception of a few performance cars) older than say 2011 just seems like a hick, that didn't care enough to buy a decent car. This probly stems from living in an area where almost every car is American, and boring, and rusted to hell...

Also My next car will probably be German, or American b/c I don't really find anything any Asian company has made in the last 9 year interesting enough to buy myself .

I think really I just look down on people that don't CARE about the car they drive. The people content with a 4 speed slushbox, and an engine that sounds like it's about to have an asthma attack every time you get on the throttle a little(my wife's Cavalier comes to mind...ugh).

Oh and people that drive rusty cars and don't seem to mind. I can't stand having rust holes on my car, or even surface rust. I sold my 97 Accord because it had some cancer on the drivers side rear fender. yes it was a perfectly fine car besides that, yes I could have driven it that was for another 2-3 years with no problems, yes it was a decently fun car, that comfortably seat 5, but every time I looked at those rust hole i just wanted to cry.

Oh and don't even get me started on people that try so hard to convince you that they know EVERYTHING about cars. They are usually the same people that think their Gramd Am Gt is the shit.

Jedidiah > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 12:59

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I'm a snob about the actual limitations of a car. I quickly turn into an elitist when people don't understand the limitations of their vehicles.

I don't like sports cars in general, but I think people who buy them have been mislead by an illusion of performance. They convince themselves that they handle so well when they are actually nothing like purpose-built performance cars. They are machines whose design consists mainly of compromises to work at least somewhat in general and they wind up being good at nothing.

Why would you want an uncomfortable, small car that isn't really good at anything unless you were a masochist? You could just buy a sportbike, it's faster, cheaper and closer to a real performance vehicle. Or you could just buy a comfortable and useful vehicle.

Cone dodging in the Food City parking lot or waiting for an accident to happen on a backroad generates no measurable performance data about a vehicle, when instead you could be building a track or strip ready car that you can actually benchmark.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 08/04/2014 at 13:03

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But (from my skewed prospective)anyone driving American car (with the exception of a few performance cars) older than say 2011 just seems like a hick, that didn't care enough to buy a decent car.

As a diehard European car fanboy, I can safely say that that is a huge exaggeration. There are lots and lots of American cars from not so long ago that are total crap. But I hope you aren't serious when you say that anyone driving a pre-2011 American car is a hick. If nothing else, plenty of people on here, myself included with a 2009 Ford Flex, have pre-2011 American cars. Calling people with cars like that hicks isn't being a car snob, it's being a snob.

Nerd-Vol > MazdaMonkey 08/04/2014 at 13:08

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I agree. When I am really getting it, the Miata feels most like an extension of me. The Speed 3 has sort of the same feel because the power is so instant and snappy.

Nerd-Vol > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 13:13

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I don't even know what to say to that. The point of a sports car for a lot of people is that you can use it on a regular basis and really enjoy it. Whether it is the additional power or sharper handling, there is fun to be had behind the wheel.

What you are essentially saying is either drive something with no sporting aspirations or drive a full blooded race car. That's ridiculous in my opinion, there have to be some off ramps between the two extremes.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 08/04/2014 at 13:14

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I know it's a fault of mine, and the 2011 year wasn't the best way of explaining it. But it is true to an extent. I mean I could make a list of all the American cars I don't like, that I look down on people for choosing, but it would take awhile.

lets just sum this up with five pictures.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > MazdaMonkey 08/04/2014 at 13:19

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"I don't car about my speed or time around a track. I just love the feel ..."

yes this. "driving fast" doesn't always mean going fast.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 08/04/2014 at 13:26

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I'm on the other side of that one. My most favorite car had no power anything, and no A/C. and probably sub 100hp. but It was a blast to drive, unless you were trying to actually go fast in a straight line. I had it for 2.5years, and put almost 40,000 miles on it. At the same time there is a difference between cheap, and cheeeap. My shitbox, had, no rust, it had four wheel independent suspension, and a minimalist, but nice interior. It even had good looks. In other words yes my 91 Civic was fun, but I would go out and buy an Aspire, or a Metro.

Decay buys too many beaters > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 13:33

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Manual transmissions no matter how advanced, I absolutely require the ability to physically manipulate a clutch. To me anything that has an "automatic mode" is an automatic whereas a manual requires the driver to select the gears via a mechanical linkage at all times.

I'm also kind of a snob about beer... and scotch

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 08/04/2014 at 13:36

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All cars that are driven by people who don't care that much about cars. That doesn't make them hicks. One has nothing to do with the other. Perhaps the use of a different word might be better.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 13:39

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"I like driving an automatic," Someone says.

My follow up to that statement would most likely end up being considered snobbery by some circles. I've thought about this and realized that it is mainly due to my distaste for modern culture in general, than it is thinking I'm somehow better than someone else. I will continue to buy a manual car; no matter how good modern automatics get. This is because of the connection I feel to a better, simpler time where people did things for themselves instead of letting machines do it for them.

Then I also despise things like twitter and instagram (no...nobody gives a f*** what you're doing at the mall or about those cute shoes you saw that were too expensive, but you tried them on anyway just to taste the #insertstupidbshere). This separation from the natural ecosystem around us; to create our own false ecosystem...This is madness to me. So call me a snob.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 08/04/2014 at 13:39

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You have a point.

Nerd-Vol > Decay buys too many beaters 08/04/2014 at 13:40

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I've tempered my hatred of automatics. The modern ones are not so bad. They need to have at least 6 forward gears though.

That said a manual is my preference.

Jedidiah > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 13:44

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IMHO, It's not that much fun driving it day after and having that sharp steering and hard suspension beat on you mile after mile.

I'd rather get in something with good seats and a soft suspension and be able to just drive for miles. I don't need to drive fast to have fun; I just like driving.

I always thought that if you had to push your car to have fun with it, then it is a boring car and your lying to yourself about how fun it actually is.

Decay buys too many beaters > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 13:46

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I don't hate them, I just can't stand (and constantly correct) people who call F1/dual clutch/smg/dsg/whatever gearboxes "manual"

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ 08/04/2014 at 13:47

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There are two kinds of people in this world. People that enjoy driving stick and do it preach of it religiously, and a bunch of mindless, drooling, texting while driving, "I'm to busy to move two use my left foot", and "I don't want to have to think about diving", drones. Peons to the three pedal master class. lol.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 13:52

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I'ts more the mindset behind driving an auto that bugs me, But I do have to understand that not every one enjoys driving a car. There are people that would see "going for a drive" as a waste of time, and gasoline, and look down on doing such a foolish thing.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Decay buys too many beaters 08/04/2014 at 13:52

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it has no clutch, its not a manual.

Jedidiah > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 08/04/2014 at 13:55

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Anything before 2011? You got some serious snobbery to dismiss that many cars. I'd love to drive any of these.

Rust is expensive to fix and some people can't afford to replace sheet metal as often as they want or a garage to keep it in.

I seriously doubt that the frame in this truck has been compromised by rust.

Decay buys too many beaters > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 08/04/2014 at 14:01

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Of course the there are always grey areas like the saab sensonic (not even sure how I'd classify it)

Jedidiah > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 14:05

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At least 6 forward speeds? Is that why everyone who runs high horsepower grand nationals run 2-speed autos?

Automatics are miserable from the factory because they try to make them smooth.

When they are properly set up, they will shift harder, faster and more consistently than a manual every time. You also don't have looming clutch repairs and you can still pick what gear your in with a sequential ratchet shifter. You can even run a manual valvebody.

The old TH400s and A727s are not even expensive to set up properly; you can get a a good shift kit and shifter for less than it costs to do a clutch repair.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 14:07

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I ment more like modern everyday cars, and yeah that picking a specific year thing was a bad way to explain that generally I like Japanese and German cars more than their American competition.

As for that Jeep there is exceptions to every rule. The rust on that truck looks fine, in fact it looks right. but this rust ruins the whole car

also I live in WI where is't completely legal to drive a car that looks like this

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Decay buys too many beaters 08/04/2014 at 14:08

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broken from what I saw on Top Gear

Nerd-Vol > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 14:11

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Are those people running the 2 speed grand nationals spending their time here:

Or here:

Jedidiah > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 08/04/2014 at 14:20

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I figured that's what you meant :)

I haven't really been too impressed with modern cars in general. Post-2011 cars, especially from american companies, seem to have gotten better, but the base prices are going up drastically and seems like you are getting less car for your money nowadays.

Like all modern cars, they still suffer from needless electrical complexity and require speciality parts/tools, which can seriously hamper post-warranty maintenance if you plan to keep it for a long time.

That's what turns me off from cars built after 1979, there is no sense of longetivity.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 14:25

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no sense of longetivity

But at the same time not when in the used market when you see a car with 120,000 miles most people think, "Oh, well I can get another 50-70k out of it no problem. Where as in the 60's 70's car were only expected to make it to maybe 100,000 miles.

Jedidiah > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 14:31

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They're running them where they built them to run.

They're using the technology to give them the best results in a specific environment. If you have enough money and time, you can build any car to handle as well as you want in any environment.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is an automatic pro-touring grand national. It just takes careful consideration for stall speed and rear-end gearing.

Nerd-Vol > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 14:37

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Didn't really answer my question. Where do the 2 speed Buicks get driven the most?

You are also comparing a heavily tuned car to regular commuter cars. Doesn't really give weight to your argument.

Jedidiah > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 08/04/2014 at 14:39

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The rings wear out at around 100,000 miles and you start losing cylinder compression. The motors don't just stop at 100,000; they will keep going, but will not be as powerful as they were when they were new.

100,000 miles typically marks the start when this happens. It happens in modern cars too, it is that the low-tension rings wear out more slowly afterwards.

Nothing is stopping you from putting low tension rings in your motor when it is time to re-ring it. A simple re-ring job shouldn't make you consider getting rid of a car.

There is a sense of longetivity, in that they can be repaired near indefinitely and are not disposable. Albeit, the frequency of the maintenance intervals will be greater.

A fender-bender or rust does not cripple an older body-on-frame vehicle.

People were more wasteful in the 60s and 70s; for a car that was only anticipated to last four years — many of them were ridiculously overbuilt.

Jedidiah > Nerd-Vol 08/04/2014 at 14:49

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Is there any reason why you can't use a two-speed or three-speed for commuting or anything for that matter?

You will not have a high top speed, but you are not going to be doing top-speed runs in your commute. They are more than adequately geared for highway use — that's what they were designed for in the first place.

You can do whatever you want with it; either make it more liveable for commuting or use it in a highly-tuned car. If you don't the way performs; there is nothing to stop you from changing it.

I refrained from saying "drag-strip" because anything can be built to meet an environmental constraint, whether that environment is encountered in commuting or in racing.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 14:58

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You seem to be under the illusion that one should either buy a race car or a Lincoln Town car, and should in no way ever desire something between those two.

Jedidiah > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 08/04/2014 at 15:03

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Yes. That's exactly it.

Why compromise when you could have the best at either end of the spectrum?

It is a snobbish fault of mine, which is what this conversation was about originally.

Long Live the Longdoor > MazdaMonkey 08/04/2014 at 15:09

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What's the second car in your garage? Another miata?

MazdaMonkey > Long Live the Longdoor 08/04/2014 at 15:19

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My fiance's TSX wagon.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 15:23

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I'm going to just respect the fact that it's your opinion, and leave it at that.

Long Live the Longdoor > MazdaMonkey 08/04/2014 at 17:55

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Nice! I always liked the TSX wagon, I'm not if they sold them here in Canada, is it the 2.4L I4 or 3.5L V6?

Also, is your Miata blue or is that just the reflexion of the TSX's awesome blue on a black Miata lol?

MazdaMonkey > Long Live the Longdoor 08/04/2014 at 18:12

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For some dumb reason, the TSX wagon only came with a 4 cylinder down here.

Both cars are dark blue. Almost every car I have ever owned has been dark blue. We are currently experimenting with wheel colors on the TSX. Currently black, trying gunmetal this weekend.

qbeezy > Jedidiah 08/04/2014 at 18:35

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I'm 6'3 and drive a sports car. It's actually more comfortable than my wife's passat. And I feel more safe getting on a on ramp, and that 30mph curve? If I wanted to I could hit it at 60.

Long Live the Longdoor > MazdaMonkey 08/04/2014 at 18:39

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Right on!

All the cars I buy never seem to come in a nice blue. My wife and I are red car people so far, 2 red Chevy's ATM. Though we're likely replacing one car with a red CX-5 in a couple months (mostly because they ditched the nice Sky Blue it came in the last 2 years).