![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:08 Filed to: daily turismo, blog | ![]() | ![]() |
You've got $20k budget for something sporty, what do you buy...a new V6 Mustang? Heck no!! You don't want people to think you are driving around in a rental, do ya? What you need is something that'll show the boys back at your 30th high school reunion that you made it. What you need is a Corvette.
But not just any Corvette. You need a C4. A rare one....but...do you pick the 32-valve ZR-1 or the limited edition Grand Sport? That is the question...
The C4 Corvette was a considerable design departure from previous Corvette iterations. Gone were the curvaceous fenders made from fiberglass and simple analog interior in its place was a slippery composite plastic body and a crazy digital gauge setup. The C4 generation was built from 1984 through 1996, and GM did make a few special editions, but the only ones you'd ever want to think about owning are the 1990-1995 ZR-1 and/or the 1996 Grand Sport each has its pluses and minuses. Let's discuss.
First up is this !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! offered for $18,990 starting bid with a $22,990 buy it now price on ebay, located in Providence Forge, VA with 5 days to go. The ZR1 was the result of a project between GM and Lotus Engineering, which resulted in a DOHC V8 engine, big brakes, heavy duty suspension and active ride control. It was really ahead of its time for a GM product from the early 1990s but a hefty price tag (twice the cost of a standard Vette at $60k) and special assembly plant limited production to 6900 units over 6 years.
The real reason you pick up the ZR1 is for the aluminum block !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! built by Mercury Marine, which shares bore centers with the L98, but not much else. The dual overhead cam heads and variable runner intake system were designed by Lotus and helped generate 375 horsepower and 370 ft-lbs of torque. This made the ZR-1 a considerable performance car for the time and was the fastest stock Corvette until the 2004 Z06 was released.
If the ZR-1 sounds like a bucket of snakes under the hood, perhaps you'd like something with cheap-to-fix small block power, but similar exclusivity? This !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! currently offered for $21,500 or best offer in Hallandale, FL via ebay with 8 days to go will fit the bill nicely. The Grand Sport was only sold in the C4's final model year of 1996 with 1000 produced in total, and 91 with the F45 suspension package according to the seller.
The Gen II GM small block V8 under the hood of the Grand Sport is almost as powerful as the ZR-1 with half the valves and complexity. The LT4 displaces 5.7 liters (350 cubic inches) and puts out 330 horsepower and 340 ft-lbs of torque. It is also mated to the ZF sourced 6-speed transmission from the ZR-1 not the awful 4+3 Doug Nash abomination found in other C4s.
If it was my money, I'd buy the ZR-1; you can't match the LT5 for being awesome. But if it was your money, what would you buy? Comments below.
Send us your C4 tips! !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Originally posted as !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
Image credits; ebay.com
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:26 |
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ZR-1, no question.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:30 |
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"Only ones you'd ever think about owning"... Yeah, because a Lt1 manual that does 0 to 60 in 5.1s instead of 4.8s like the Zr-1 does is just too slow... and cost 2 to 4 times less also. Oh yeah, and it's easy to maintain, unlike the Lotus engine...
But yeah, Zr-1s are the only ones you want lol
So nope, the ones you want are the LT1 and LT4 (Gran Sport) for the good and simple reason that you can live with them daily. The LT5 is expensive to fix, hard to understand and work on. So yes, the Lt5 is the best engine... If you are meticulous and ready to spend quite a bit in maintenance.
Gotta love people who have never tried/owned a car yet, "review it" thanks to wikipedia and diverse forums...
And get your facts straights also. The 4+3 was gone by 1989. From 1989 to 1996, the ZF6 was the transmission used in all Corvette.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:33 |
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I have never liked the way this generation of Corvette looks. That said... stock, un-special versions of these are ( for now) dirt-cheap.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:34 |
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Already tried this in Gran Turismo 4 a decade ago, ZR-1 always sets the faster lap time. On the realistic side, it'll probably be a greater pain in the ass to work on and modify. Racing with no budget limit: ZR-1. Living with a budget: GS.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:34 |
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I take offense to your dismissal of all other C4s! Sure, the L98s never made huge horsepower, and the doug nash 4+3s didn't help very much in acceleration, but it doesn't make either of them bad. It's the combination used in the Callaway Sledgehammer, the fastest corvette to date. An '85 Z51 with a 4+3 will get to 60 in 5.7 seconds and get 25 highway MPG thanks to the doug nash. It will also go 150 MPH, which is no small deal for the times. Without the 4+3 (which is pretty much a Borg Warner Super T-10, one of the stoutest manual gearboxes of the muscle car era), the corvette would have continued down its shameful slushbox streak. As for the L98s, they are really bulletproof and will snap your head back even at 2000 RPM. If fun is what you're after, it's hard to beat a TPI Corvette with a 4 speed manual with overdrive that saves your ears and wallet on the highway. Of course, that is not true if you abuse the overdrive by slamming it in and out without using the clutch and not replacing the filter and ATF. Most 4+3 horror stories come from people who ask for them and then complain.
With that said, there's no way I'd pass up a ZR1 for a tuned LT1 with some cosmetic differences.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:36 |
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Coffee! This man needs more coffee!
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:38 |
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TOTALLY A 1994 ZR-1 that came with the upgraded 405 horsepower LT5 instead of that 375 horse unit in the earlier cars.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:38 |
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Neither - I'd get a C5 Z06 and wipe the floor with both of them.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:39 |
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ZR1, but with 20k to spend on an older car I would probably end up with a Grand National.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:39 |
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There was no ZR-1 in Gran Turismo 4. Just the Grand Sport.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:39 |
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But then you miss out on all the sweet 80s lines of the C4. ;)
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:39 |
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More than one cam. What do I do? Is the world ending?
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:41 |
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The ZR-1, but the 1993-1995 model which made 405 hp (because subconsciously I always want the best of the best).
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:41 |
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They're pretty much the same car with a different engine. I'd go for GS for Gran Turismo nostalgia.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:41 |
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grand sport all the way. i've seen one in person. and it was spectacular!
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:42 |
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Tough crowd.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:43 |
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Or a base C6 and have a lot nicer of a car.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:44 |
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It's not just the extra cam... It's an extraordinary complex engine. I would not keep one if it were offered to me because I don't feel like I have the capacity or the budget to maintain it properly. And it would be a shame... It's a great thing that they become out of reach from young kids with zero mechanical experience. They might not end up the same way Mustang Terminator are finishing their lives...
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:45 |
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It's pretty much a rewritten wikipedia article that was not even read in full that is being posted here... Combined with "opinions" from someone who never put a foot in a C4. So yeah...
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:47 |
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Sorry, but you're wrong.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:49 |
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I'm a big fan of the L98 due to its abundance of bottom-end torque and traditional small block architecture (unlike the LT1, which I like but get annoyed by its idiosyncracies). Give it the typical breathing mods and bolt up a T56, and you've got a really fun, usable street car.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:49 |
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What the hell? How could I not remember this?
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:49 |
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C5 Z06 is always the $20K answer.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:50 |
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Grand Sport, Cheaper repair bills and call me shallow if you want but its also prettier. I like racing stripes.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:50 |
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The C5 Z06 came out in 2001 not 2004 and the 405 hp version of the c5z06 started in 2002. The C4Zr1 started out with 375hp but went out with 405hp. The C5Z06 outperformed the C4Zr1 in every aspect except top speed. To be honest, you can find a C5Z06 for about the same price as these two and its a much more reliable, affordable and better performing sports car.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:51 |
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Save the Grand Sport premium and get any 1996 model with a manual transmission; they all came with the LT4 engine.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:51 |
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Whoa, I think I just got a visit from Don C4leone!!
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:51 |
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As much as I absolutely love the Grand Sport, I've wanted a ZR-1 since 1989. The thought of a mechanical failure would worry me like a V12 Benz, but I would still love to own a ZR-1 someday.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:52 |
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I'd do the gran sport. Simpler and Dem stripes doe
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:52 |
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Mmmm, that is a good choice.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:53 |
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To save more even more money, C5FRC (if you can find a good one).
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:55 |
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I agree the C5 Z06 is a better car on just about every conceivable benchmark. The only reason they are similarly priced on the market is because GM built 28,000 of them.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:56 |
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A guy I went to high school with had a ZR-1 powered Grand Sport so I guess get that one and not choose.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:57 |
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If I HAD to have a C4, Grand Sport all day long. Coil pack conversion and drive it until it won't drive no more. As much as I love the LT5, I don't want to live with owning one. Also, those fender flares.
But let's be honest, I'd be in a C5Z years before any C4 at any price.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 11:59 |
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Something bout dem stripes. Or maybe it's the admiral blue. Or the black wheels. Whatever it is, i'll take a C4 GS over most any other vette. But make mine with the Z51 suspension, and a red interior.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:00 |
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I settle this right now, you could never get the C4 ZR1 this way (unless you were a certain special GM exec.):
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:00 |
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Yes, the c5 z06 is faster that both of these but the c4 cabin isso much better than the c5 (in my opinion) sit super low, awesome wraparound cockpit, its like sitting in a fighter jet with a steering wheel.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:00 |
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I just can't get over the tacked-on look of those rear fender flares.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:00 |
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Considering the ZR-1 can outrun a C5 Z06 on the freeway, I think it's got to be the obvious choice (never mind the widebody).
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:00 |
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ZR-1 ALL DAY LONG
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:03 |
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If I dont have to drive it everyday ZR1. If I have to drive it everyday still probably the ZR1. Opti is scary.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:03 |
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He said "ones" as in two different C4 editions, not "one" as in ZR-1 only. So I'm not sure what you're arguing about.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:04 |
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Pikers.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:04 |
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"Gottaotta love people who have never tried/owned a car yet, "review it" thanks to wikipedia and diverse forums..."
Gotta love the guy that wrote a whole article whining about how he needs to wear gloves while driving, start to talk shit about someone else's article.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:04 |
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You could actually get the '91 with the L98 with the ZF 6-speed. IMHO, the best option for the TPI engine.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:04 |
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I'd pick the Grand Sport. I usually hate blue on most cars but I think it looks perfect on the C4 with the black wheels and white stripe. The C4 gets a lot of hate but I love them and to me, the Grand Sport is the best looking C4 by far. I dream of owning one someday.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:05 |
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Cry baby go home
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:06 |
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Grand Sport.
Every damn day.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:07 |
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1st correct answer! The C4 ZR1 is almost impossible to maintain because of lack of parts and competent technitions. That POS has the starter motor under the intake manifold! The windshield has a special UV coating that brings it's price up to over $3K if you can find one....reason for the special windshield.....the under hood thempratures generated overwhelm the A/C unit and it's output is less than optimal so, the coating reflects heat away from the interior. If your ZR1 shopping.....look carefully at the windshield.....there is a little window on the dash to the right of the instrument cluster you to mount your radar detector and allow it to properly function. The Grand Sport is OBD2 compliant much easier to troubleshoot and diagnose. The one thing the C4 has on the C5/6 it's sport seats are actually pretty decent for holding the driver in and giving chassis feedback.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:08 |
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Don't review cars you've never put a foot into, arbitrary deciding which one are crap with for sole knowledge on the subjects, stuff that uneducated 15 years old repeat on various internet forums. All the cars sold from 1992 to 1996 had a minimum of 305hp and more torque than in a 2014 Porsche GT3. Hardly crap by any standard...
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:08 |
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I love the GS but I'd have to take the ZR-1. GM built that with making the ultimate street car in mind, and it took the C5 Z06 to top what the ZR1 could do
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:09 |
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I agreed on the LT4 comment, that is all. I don't understand what you mean either...
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:10 |
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"Settle down, Captain happy!"
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:11 |
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In truth I sort of dig the Doug Nash 4+3 - not just for my respect and admiration for the Super T-10 (king of the dirt tracks back in the day) but also because 7 gears in 1989 was bitchin.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:12 |
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I never said I needed gloves, especially not to "drive". I prefer using gloves and explained why, consdiering the amount of people who criticize the use of such gloves during trackdays with reason such as "they wanna look cool"... But please, learn to read to first.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:15 |
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You need gloves or your woman hands will blister!
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:16 |
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ok....
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:19 |
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Grand Sport all the way. Better looking, rarer, just as quick in the real world, and tons of bolt on potential.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:21 |
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Did you even take your driving goggles off long enough to read article? Who said anything about what is or isn't crap? Sheesh!! The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:21 |
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It will end when you cant find parta for it.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:23 |
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I get your points on the engines, but assume you had a 600hp crate motor ready to shoehorn in, wouldn't you pick the ZR1 for all the non engine bits and pieces and then clean up the LT5 and sell it?
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:23 |
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Fun fact, any 1996 Vette with a manual 6spd gets the 330hp LT4... So if you want even cheaper fun (Grand Sports are hard to find and some are WAY too pricey) go with a '96 manual and get the good stuff for cheaper. Awesome paint job and black wheels excluded.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:24 |
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Yeah, great man, I too can Ninja edit my articles... You clearly stated talking about the Zr1 and the LT4, "The only ones you'd consider owning", which you replaced by that V6 Mustang analogy. But please, keep on not assuming what you posted and blame me for not "reading correctly"
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:28 |
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Came here to say that. Plus Forza 2&3
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:29 |
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Agree'd but I was trying to justify spending $20k for a C4 and to do that you really need to pick something rare like the ZR-1 or the GS. As pointed out by others a C5 Z06 gives you far more bang for the same buck.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:31 |
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Funny I've had no issues with my lt5 outside of a few easily fixed vac leaks. Don't kid yourself the lt1 and the LT5 aren't even in the same league
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:32 |
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your entire first comment was written off shit you read on corvetteforum.com because you don't have any idea what you're talking about
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:32 |
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I'm with you on all of this. I'm a die-hard Vette fan and I love the ZR1, but the engine is an added complexity for not much gain, the GS is just as rare and kick ass. I'd pick it hands down.
If it were a massive performance or price difference it would be worth it. too similar in price and power though, why not pick simple?
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:32 |
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They are not. I never meant that. They are very demanding in term of maintenance, that is all and I would not feel like owning one due to the potential costs that go with them... it's great you've never had problems with yours, but the two friends who own one (a '91 and a '94) do not share that opinion.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:33 |
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I've sat in a C4 (it was a ZR1, even), and my impression was not so much fighter jet as 14AAA shoe. I'm not a big guy, but the cockpit felt pretty tight. It definitely had enough legroom, though, certainly more than a 5'8" guy like me will ever need.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:34 |
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I wouldn't step near EITHER of these two vettes. I would hop right into the cleanest hardtop C5 vette I could find and spend the leftover cash, maybe 5 grand, on some subtle wheels with fresh tires, even z06 oem's would be badass.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:36 |
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The Grand Sport comes with the fat rear tires (and fenders) of the ZR1, so you aren't getting ALL the good stuff. :)
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:36 |
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I've never been on this forum... I own a Lt1, considered for a while going the Zr1 way and have two friends with Zr1. I do know what I'm talking about. LT5 are extremly reliable engine if combined with a drastic maintenance and you better keep your figers crossed nothing goes wrong. They are extremely expensive to repair in case of more serious trouble than simple vaccuum leaks and if daily driven, risks are rather quite a bit higher for this to happen.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:38 |
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C5 Corvette.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:41 |
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They actually aren't any more demanding then any other c4 in terms of maintenance
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:42 |
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You realize that the engine was designed to go 250,000 miles without a rebuild, correct? The are only a handful of non-sprayed lt5's that I know of that have actually needed a rebuild and most of those were due to extended high temp tacking or using the wrong coolant and having it eat out the head gaskets. Your LT1 is far harder to work on then the lt5, far slower too
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:45 |
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Please expand on the Terminator comment if you can. I am not sure what you are inferring.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:46 |
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Ok, you must be trolling now... Good luck with your car man.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:47 |
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Well yes, you have to justify the increased cost over a base manual 'vette somehow .
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:47 |
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How many opti-sparks have you had to replace?
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:47 |
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Terminators are getting more and more affordable now and are more and more bought by people who just ruin them and don't maintain them properly.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:49 |
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OH MY GOD THE TAIL LIGHTS AREN'T ROUND!!! I CAN SEE THE EXPOSED RIVETS!!!! BLASPHEMY!!! THEY RUINED AN AMERICAN ICON!!!
Oh wait, that's the C7. Right. Haters (purists?) gonna hate. I'll have a Grand Sport, please. You're right, the LT5 is a really cool engine, but the GS just talks to me. That said, a pre-facelift ZR1 with the old nose & new wide tail would be a pretty special ride that only the cognoscenti would recognize.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:53 |
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One. Done it myself in 4 hours of work. Cost me 250$. It's failure was due to a radiator hose breaking down while "hill climbing" (not a race but a closed road) in Vermount. Since 1994, Optis are vented and don't create as much problem as before. Even then, they are fairly easy to work on. I would actually say that you have less than 30 screws to unscrew and put back in place in total to change the opti.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:53 |
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I have a 1995 Z07, one of 753 built. It has remained totally stock in the 17 years I have owned it. I ran 13.75@100 at Milan dragway when it had 33k on the clock. It just clicked over 98k this morning, I drive it daily. Have never added oil between changes - zero oil consumption. Every option except LTPWS. Amazingly still has the original front brake pads. The most reliable car I've owned. What a car.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:53 |
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I have a 1995 Z07, one of 753 built. It has remained totally stock in the 17 years I have owned it. I ran 13.75@100 at Milan dragway when it had 33k on the clock. It just clicked over 98k this morning, I drive it daily. Have never added oil between changes - zero oil consumption. Every option except LTPWS. Amazingly still has the original front brake pads. The most reliable car I've owned. What a car.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:53 |
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I have a 1995 Z07, one of 753 built. It has remained totally stock in the 17 years I have owned it. I ran 13.75@100 at Milan dragway when it had 33k on the clock. It just clicked over 98k this morning, I drive it daily. Have never added oil between changes - zero oil consumption. Every option except LTPWS. Amazingly still has the original front brake pads. The most reliable car I've owned. What a car.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:54 |
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30 screws? that's about 3x the number I have to undo to take the entire top end of my engine off.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:56 |
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Yeah you must not have any radiator hose or a water pump to remove lol
![]() 08/01/2014 at 12:57 |
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well...I'm going to attempt to answer the question asked and not fight the power like so many have in the comments.
I always liked the zr1 and have ridden in but not driven a black one when they were new. Fast and cool car.
However, I like the GS looks and would love a convert (pretty rate).
The sole GS I drove was fun and considering any good mechanics can wrench on it makes the whole cake sweeter.
Give me the GS and a few CDs for the radio and I'm set.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:02 |
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the rear fenders are the same as the standard car with some tacky ugly stick ons
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:05 |
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![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:07 |
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Why get a Zr1 for that? The LT1 is exactly the same exept for the engine... It even has the same brakes. Would be a shame to destroy a Zr1 to do that when you can just take a Lt1 for 3 times less and achieve the exact same thing.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:10 |
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To actually drive and run hard? Grand Sport, hands down.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:13 |
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There's one very good reason to get one of the fast C4s over a C5. SCCA classifications for autocross. All C4s race in B-stock (against S2000s and Solstices), non Z06 C5s are in A-stock (against 996s, Cayman S, and E92 M3s), and the C5 Z06 is in S-Stock against vipers, C6 corvettes, and 997s. I'd rather wipe the floor with the B-stock class with a ZR1 than struggle against the top teir cars in S-stock.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:18 |
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I understand that finding parts and somebody to work on one is probably a nightmare simply due to the fact there aren't that many of those engines out there, but is the LT5 itself reaaalllly any more complex than an Audi or BMW DOHC V8?
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:21 |
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you are right but.. quad cam 5.7 liter..
Hell i know with heads cam and an intake i've had a lt1 making 415hp to the wheels. Still doesn't mean its got the collect-ability of the LT-5
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:32 |
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This is a super relevant article for me as I'm looking for a C4 corvette to compete in autocross with. The fact they are classed down in B-stock is a big draw for me, the C5 Z06 is all the way up in Super stock. I'm leaning towards a 2003+ ZR1 with the 405hp engine, then putting the springs, sway bars, and quicker steering rack from a Z51 car on.
![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:33 |
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![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:33 |
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![]() 08/01/2014 at 13:34 |
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