Is It Possible To Make a Stealth Car?

"willkinton247" (willkinton247) 07/25/2014 at 10:15 • Filed to: stealth

1

48

I live in Virginia, which is a wonderful state in almost every way, except for the fact that radar detectors are illegal. So, is it possible to create a production car that features enough stealth characteristics to measurably reduce the effectiveness of a radar gun?

The primary ways that aircraft achieve stealth are low observable features and active emitters. Because the jamming of radio signals is very illegal, we would have to focus on the former category. The two primary means for minimizing the aircraft's Radar Cross Section (RCS) revolve around the idea of deflecting the radio waves away from the source through the shape of the vehicle and absorbing the radio energy through specialized coatings. Specialized coatings are sensitive and very expensive, so their use in the automotive environment may not work as well, but if people look into it enough, it could work, especially since these coatings have been around since the Blackbird and the general theory behind them is well known. For example, the F-16 uses an iridium-tin oxide layer that's applied to the canopy that reduces the RCS by 15%.

That leads us to shape, which could probably be fairly easy to implement. The ungainly F-117 (which first flew in 1981) was full of angles designed to deflect radar returns away from the aircraft. Modern computers have allowed for a much sleeker design in stealth aircraft, with the F-22 and F-35 implementing these features while still maintaining visual grace.

Furthermore, it seems to me that most encounters with radar guns occur as I am approaching the officer, so I believe it's realistic to assume that in order to be effective in both cost and execution, the designer of the car would only need to focus on the front of the vehicle. This could prevent a solid speed reading while you react by hitting the brakes as you normally would, and by the time your car reveals a less stealthy Radar Cross Section, you could be travelling in the speed limit.

A great looking car could probably be made with radar reflective features and a reasonable amount of radar absorbing material (RAM) within the hypercar spectrum. The Veneno and Reventon are both examples of cars that are "inspired" by stealth fighters, but I bet with a little more engineering emphasis on actual stealth, you could get real results. I bet you could create a good looking Corvette-level sports car without any RAM and still have enough features to be measurable.

I don't know if any OEM has actually put any effort into creating a stealth car, but I don't think it would be as hard as it looks. It doesn't have to be completely invisible, but if you make it harder to get a solid radar reading, you may be able to get a few extra precious seconds to react.

Photos: Jalopnik, Wikipedia, Autoguide

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 10:16

1

macanamera > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 10:17

10

(Northern) Virginia:

Hands down, the worst cops in the country.

willkinton247 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 07/25/2014 at 10:18

1

That front end, with some help from computers, could totally be angled to deflect radar away from the gun.

PRBot II > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 10:34

16

Dodge experimented with this idea in the 90's with debatable results.

I'll show myself out.

Image courtesy of Archduke Maxyenko

willkinton247 > PRBot II 07/25/2014 at 10:35

0

bahaha

Montalvo > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 11:26

0

A family friend has a Ferrari F430 with special paint that helps absorb/confuse the signals from a radar gun. Definitely isn't OEM paint, if I hadn't seen and been in his other crazy modded cars I may have doubted him.

willkinton247 > Montalvo 07/25/2014 at 11:49

0

That's really interesting. I'd love to see a test.

Viggen > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 20:41

0

Alternative: radar jamming device.

Tyler Rogoway > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 22:29

1

The 90s Camero was said to be very hard for Cops to get a return on without a plate and if they were black in color. The black paint absorbed some radar and energy and the cares highly raked front end led to errant returns. This may have been rumor but a cop told me.

A lot of the combat tanks and vehicles have signature reduction techniques applied to their design, including radar.

HEADLAU5 > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 23:04

0

There has to be at least one or two cars(probably from the 80's)that just so happen to reflect the kind of radar most police use.

YoungPadwan > willkinton247 07/25/2014 at 23:52

0

Check out rocket city rednecks. It was a tv show on natgeo that made a cheap at home ram ( radar absorbent material ). Basically what ever it is the paint is going to primarily be made up of charcoal.

Eric in the PNW > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 00:46

0

You know this is why most states force you to install front license plates, right? Without them there are a number of cars that are almost impossible to get a good radar reading from the front.

bainelaker > PRBot II 07/26/2014 at 01:26

1

Make it a white R/T TT and that's my old ride! :)

bainelaker > HEADLAU5 07/26/2014 at 01:26

0

Countach?

Darigaaz > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 01:50

0

Florida had a fleet of stealth interceptors. :P

dodgycookies > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 03:31

0

No. Mainly because how stealth actually works is not really public or is really technical that people get confused.

1)Stealth aircraft properties are not reliant on only the outer shape or the ram skin. The highly classified underlying structure beneath that aero package also plays heavily into detection envelopes.

2)Stealth is really about beating manufacturing tolerances in the hardware and also spoofing the software algorithms. Remember that the detectors have a minimum noise floor to filter out as well as a lot of other stuff to differentiate between aircraft and other objects. For something like a car and speed trap where the source/detector is so close, it would be almost impossible to reduce the return to below the floor or below the "bird/cloud" equivalent noise levels

What actually spoofed radar guns was that it was limited to continuous wave (rather than pulsed due to cost) and that civilian units have less sophisticated algorithms and handheld units have less powerful hardware to run better filter software.

3) Newer speed detectors rely on lidar, which are almost impossible to spoof. The old rumors were somewhat true as old radar guns used X band which were the same as the keyless entry signals (now they are all k/ku band or lidar)

Old-Busted-Hotness > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 08:29

0

Possible, but not cost effective. Radar-absorbing paint is a thing, but it costs somewhere north of $10,000/gal.

Slightly less effective would be to cover your core support or pack the front bumper cover with radar-absorbing mats (which you can buy at defense auctions). The mat is vinyl-covered, about 2 inches thick, and filled with what looks like black Scotch-Brite. However, if your car has metallic paint the radar will reflect off that before it gets to the mat. Sanding all the paint off the cover, down to the bare urethane, and packing with mats would significantly reduce your radar signature, but would look like shit. You'll probably want to wrap the A-pillars and leading edge of the roof with mats as well.

The mats would work best on cars without a top grille opening, like a 3rd-4th gen Firebird, as any radar that does manage to get to the radiator would be absorbed on the way back.

Probably the easiest and cheapest mod is to lose the front license plate.

HEADLAU5 > bainelaker 07/26/2014 at 09:41

0

Yeah. Or a Subaru XT6, first Gen MR2, Fiero. Especially if you live in a state with no front plate. Though I think they might use the front plate for laser.

NeutronStar73 > Eric in the PNW 07/26/2014 at 14:57

0

they've made stealth cars for years now. They're called "Volvos".

I have an S60R and at least 5 times I was speeding and they cos never pinched me, but a car that was near me. And cops never look at Volvos for infractions. Ever.

kschang > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 14:58

0

I still remember the woo "stealth bra" they sell for cars that claims to defeat radar guns. :D And they now sell more woo like "Laser Shield" and "Veil".

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-02-18/bus…

sonderklasse > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 15:10

2

But then everyone's radar-based Blind Spot Detection Systems wouldn't work...

BobinCT > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 15:43

0

Sounds like a job for myth busters.

TA4K > dodgycookies 07/26/2014 at 18:47

1

I have used a police LIDAR gun when working at a WRC service park, and I can tell you that the large front and rear glass expanses of the Fiesta and C4 WRC cars were nigh on impossible to get a reading on. You had to go for the bumper or be really accurate and hit the number plates to get any kind of result. Also I couldn't get it to give me a range reading on any glass surfaces. Side note: I caught Loeb doing 40k in a 30k zone.

KayGB > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 21:34

1

Speed in the rain, it virtually attenuates the return signal to dick all.

KayGB > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 21:36

0

Lemme try that again, it attenuates the return to virtualy dick all.

KayGB > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 21:37

0

Virtualy? Fuck it, I'm going to bed.

dodgycookies > TA4K 07/26/2014 at 22:12

0

The guns are problematic due to the low cost, weaker lasers, smaller scan window, and mediocre filters. its mainly an issue of resolution and slow (or lack of nutation) on the IR laser. Radar guns project a cone to get responses, but to get the same coverage from a laser you need to rotate it about the axis with a mirror, which can be expensive and often not done.

The larger units are a bit more effective, and new true high rez pulsed lidar scanners used in autonomous vehicles are pretty fool proof.

DietDrPhil > dodgycookies 07/26/2014 at 23:03

0

I thought that there were effective and legal LIDAR jammers on the market, but they only covered small areas of the car (i.e. number plate). Additionally there are LIDAR coatings which have been shown to decrease the effective range by about 20%, I believe.

DietDrPhil > willkinton247 07/26/2014 at 23:13

0

Guys ,they've been around since the early 90s... ROCKY MOUNTAIN RADAR ! The #1 fake radar scrambler on the market; they're undisputed!

OttoMaddox > Tyler Rogoway 07/27/2014 at 00:47

2

Car and Driver tested a black Corvette, and with no front plate and all reflective areas taped over, it was almost invisible to lidar (laser), because black reflects no light. The color would not matter with radar, which uses radio waves.

Also, it's spelled Cam a ro.

jalopanon-yow > Tyler Rogoway 07/27/2014 at 12:34

0

Same with the first gen coupe Fieros, assuming no front plate (which stock was angled down too), those new reflective plates will bounce it right back unless you've stripped the factory finish and "repainted" with flat paint. Or just don't run front plates.

Plecostomus is a starred commenter > Tyler Rogoway 07/27/2014 at 15:31

1

personal pet peeve, I hear your point but there is no e in Camaro. Amirite @MurileeMartin?

BigGatorChris > willkinton247 07/27/2014 at 19:15

0

I had a buddy turning wrenches in the Guard a while back.

He said some guys from MacDill used their facilities to spray Hummers, and took exquisite care to ensure that no traces of the paint were left behind.

jkm7680 > willkinton247 07/27/2014 at 19:16

0

Strap a mirror to the front to reflect the ray? Lol, I haven't a damn clue.

NOVA cops are all over the place, constantly running radar.

Josh > willkinton247 07/27/2014 at 20:41

0

Automatic chaff dispensers. Boom.

Helmut Franco > willkinton247 07/27/2014 at 22:22

0

The hardest thing to camouflage would be the tires.

IcantDo55 > Helmut Franco 07/28/2014 at 00:16

0

Living in Virginia Requires one of these. Excellent and police cant detect it.

https://www.escortradar.com/redline/

willkinton247 > Viggen 07/28/2014 at 08:20

3

Tom McParland > willkinton247 07/28/2014 at 08:44

0

This is the closest someone has gotten to building a stealth car- http://www.ridelust.com/the-truth-abou…

bryanska > OttoMaddox 07/28/2014 at 09:26

0

I remember this in the late 80s. It was a Corvette modded specifically to defeat all police detection.

The Corvette also had toggle switches for the taillights, so the light signature could be changed during pursuits. All exterior lights could be switched off completely while still showing an illuminated dash. It also had radar jammers for all police wavelengths, as well as police and CB radios.

JSWilson64_g > OttoMaddox 07/28/2014 at 09:49

0

I remember that story. I totally wanted to wire up my car so I could change the tail light signature...

Didn't they also put an IR-emitting driving light on the front to dazzle LIDAR?

William Byrd > willkinton247 07/28/2014 at 10:04

0

Good thread. Mythbusters did some of this:

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode18

Note that the "stealth paint" is last and wasn't tested b/c of weight and cost.

Eric in the PNW > NeutronStar73 07/29/2014 at 17:06

0

You do have a point there. Not the one I was making, but a good one. Some cars can be sped in with zero risk because officers cannot fathom that they're speeding.

I was the unfortunate recipient of one of these tickets once. How do you prove you weren't driving fast when your car's styling says "fast" and you happen to have been near a car that blew your doors off?

BenLikesCars > willkinton247 07/29/2014 at 19:46

1

Stealth car?

Absolutely.

This is how it's done,

Do near triple-digits all day long.

Nobody will notice.

Nobody will see you.

Designed by Ralph Ellison, himself, I say.

Riceball > willkinton247 07/31/2014 at 11:09

0

This is the first I've ever heard of military aircraft using any form of active stealth and I follow military aviation pretty closely. To the best of my knowledge all military stealth aircraft rely on passive stealth, any sort of active system would be counter productive because any emissions can be detected which is why stealth planes try not to use their radar unless absolutely needed because the emissions can be detected from much further away than the returns can be read, in other words, they'll see you before you see them. This was even applied to F-14s towards the end of its service life which is why they were eventually mounted with long distance camera lenses in order to visually ID potential enemy aircraft at long distances without having to give away their position by using their radars and the Tomcat was definitely not a stealth bird, it wasn't even stealthy.

willkinton247 > Riceball 07/31/2014 at 11:33

0

The B-2 actually has a way to decrease it's RCS as it approaches the target. Some how the plane becomes significantly more stealthy, but no one outside of the "need-to-knows" seems to know why.

Atlantian > OttoMaddox 08/10/2014 at 01:56

0

What generation Corvette?

OttoMaddox > Atlantian 08/10/2014 at 19:48

0

A C5 I think.