First-time Opponaunt, looking for First Car

"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg) 03/31/2014 at 23:02 • Filed to: None

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All right, so let me clear up a few formalities first. This is my first Oppositelock post, and I'm only kind of familiar with how it works. Secondly, I'm a couple months away from buying (or perhaps inheriting) my first car. I have been obsessed with cars for as long as I can remember, so I figured, hey, what better place to ask for advice than a site full of other people who have been obsessed with cars for as long as they can remember? It beats going on Ask.com. As of right now, I am considering many, many different vehicles of all sorts. Hopefully, over the next few weeks, that list will shrink. I'm only going to start with this post, and if it appears that there is helpful advice to be gained I will post more questions for other cars I'm considering. Now, enough with the AA-type stuff. Here's the first car on my list:

This wouldn't be my family's first run-in with Isuzu. My mom had a Trooper long ago. I don't remember it, but she loved it. Also, the first Matchbox I recall having was, in fact, a yellow VehiCROSS, so I guess you could say I have some ownership experience already. I'm aware that mechanically, the VehiCROSS is more or less a shortened Trooper, so I'm assuming that they are fairly reliable. The reasons I'm drawn to the Vehicross (I am not prepared to keep capitalizing "cross" for the rest of this piece) are the 4WD, which is helpful in snowy Nebraska, the power train, which I believe to be reliable, as previously stated, and the looks. The Vehicross, obviously, looks like nothing else on the road. I know some people aren't fans, but I love it. Apart from the car-bra fitted to this one, (which looks more like a bank robber ski mask, if you ask me) I like the aggressive, sporty, yet still off-road-y appearance, and the snake-y face. Yet the uniqueness and rarity are what concern me. The questions I have are:

How are the maintenance/repair costs for one of these, namely if some piece of exterior trim gets damaged?

How does the car drive? (I am particularly worried about rear visibility, as the built in spare tire appears to eliminate most of it.)

Any other comments from anyone who knows about, or has owned a Vehicross (I realize that isn't many people, how many did they sell?) would be greatly appreciated!

Here is !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to the specific Vehicross I have my eye on, if anyone is interested. Thanks for your help!

mazdaspeed2 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:08

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Welcome to Oppo! I can't help with the vehicross (I do think they are awesome though), but I would break the post up in a couple more paragraphs. What else is on your list?

chilango > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:08

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Welcome Aboard!

I know nothing about this car. I just wanted to say hello and enjoy the ride.

chilango > chilango 03/31/2014 at 23:10

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also... I hear miatas are nice as firs—anytime.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:11

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thebigbossyboss > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:14

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Welcome to Oppo. You certainly belong here if you're gonna buy a vehicross. Unfortunately I don't think anyone on here has a vehicross. Although by and large...it's an approved Oppo car!

scoob > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:14

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All I know is the '95-'97 Troopers were known to roll over easily. I don't know if shortening a chassis does anything positive/negative or if the Vehicross is even affected by that, so don't hold me to this.

I guess, if you really need it, you could just get a Trooper because 4 doors and somewhat big trunk.

And the selectable 4WD is badass.

davedave1111 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:16

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The Vehicross is a properly Jalop vehicle to start with. Love it :)

General advice is to work out the total cost to you of owning every car you're looking at: purchase cost; insurance cost; fuel cost with your expected mileage; maintenance. Then split what you're spending up into the practical - the minimum you can spend for transport - and luxury - the money you're spending because you get something nicer than the most boring and reliable option.

You're the only person who can make a purchasing decision for you, but if you get your head straight, your priorities in order, and your cost of ownership worked-out, you'll find the decision probably makes itself based on what cars are available somewhere near you at a good price.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > chilango 03/31/2014 at 23:16

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Thanks. I've thought about the Miata-we'll see!

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:20

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If you need affordable 4WD, the answer is always XJ! Super affordable mods and legendary reliability. What more do you need?

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > mazdaspeed2 03/31/2014 at 23:21

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Thanks! Any advice (whether with buying or writing) is appreciated!

When I say I have a variety of cars on my list, I mean it. Anything from the above Isuzu, to an old W126 S-Class, to an ex-cop Crown Vic. Basically, if it can be had for under $7500 with less than 100k miles, and it isn't totally boring, I'm interested.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > davedave1111 03/31/2014 at 23:26

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Thanks for the advice! I've started looking at running costs, but I'm holding off on big stuff like insurance quotes until I get it narrowed down.

Clown Shoe Pilot > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:28

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I really dig the vehicross. I don't think I'd get one as a first car though. First cars tend to get fucked up, and it'd be a shame to bend something cool like a vehicross. Also, they didn't sell particularly well, and finding parts for it will become increasingly difficult and expensive. It's already challenging. There were only 87 cars sold like the one you're looking at (color combo in model year)

Nobody wants a crap car. I get that. However, for your first car you should get a crap car. You're probably young and male, so you're probably gonna bend it. Get something you won't feel bad about messing up. There is PLENTY of time for cool cars later.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:30

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03-up Crown Vic's are damn good choices.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 03/31/2014 at 23:31

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Not much more, really. I've looked at some Cherokees and Grand Cherokees, and they are definitely in the conversation. Only thing is, the parking lot at my high school is half Jeeps. The plus is, there must be a good reason for that. On the other hand, I kinda want something that isn't what everyone else has. Still, an XJ has been in the family before (it was the one directly before the Trooper), so it could be again!

davedave1111 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:31

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It may well be different where you are, but for me insurance quotes are the first thing to check because that's one of the biggest costs, especially for new drivers - it can totally change the equation if you're spending more on insurance than a year's fuel. Once you put your details into a comparison site you just have to change the car details, so you can get a bunch of quotes quickly and see how they vary.

It's more a way to rule cars out than anything else, but when you're first looking it's a good way to narrow down the search.

(I may be overstressing this because I live in London and don't do many miles, so the difference between a high insurance quote and a low insurance quote pretty much covers my petrol for a year.)

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Clown Shoe Pilot 03/31/2014 at 23:36

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I hear you, loud and clear. I am looking at XJ Jeeps, Crown Vics, and, in particular, the 90's Roadmaster wagon, and I cannot deny that the best bet would be a cheap, tough car that can take shit and keep on going.

JR1 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:37

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Might not be the most Jalop of trucks but it certainly can make me smile and the 4.3 V6 never leaves you wanting:

mazdaspeed2 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:39

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I would definitely check out the sports econoboxes from the earlier 2000's. My first car was a mazdaspeed protege and I absolutely loved it. I'm not sure I could recommend it because they aren't all taken care of the way that mine was, but focus svt, neon srt-4, etc. WRX depending on your location (I'm in the northeast and there is a HUGE premium on awd, especially subaru), or a miata because they have huge communities for any support you may need.

Oh and don't rush into anything, take your time looking, and do A LOT of research before buying anything. I spent almost everyday on craigslist for 6 months before I got my speed protege. The seller was very thorough in his ad, and he didn't try to hide its flaws. Before I went to look at it I had found all the common problems with the car and I knew what questions to ask. With the protege, the LSD was a very common problem and it is an expensive fix if it hasn't been done. Look out for things like that.

Biggest things are don't forget about ownership costs, and don't rush into anything or buy a car if you have any serious doubts about it. This video is pretty good for things to look out for.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > davedave1111 03/31/2014 at 23:41

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Fortunately, I have an insurance agent in the family, so I'm going to have some help with that. I have already ruled out some of the faster, boy-racer stuff due to insurance (think Mustangs and Subarus WRXs), and I'm guessing some of the old luxury cars are next to go. I'm guessing that insurance in London is slightly higher than in the midwestern United States, but it is still a huge factor.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:41

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I'd recommend something like an E36 BMW or a Miata. Both can be found cheap and are really fun to drive. Use the leftover cash for repairs or upgrades. If you want an SUV, 90s GM SUVs are pretty much bulletproof and the 5.7 will run forever if you maintain it properly.

Also, Welcome to Oppo!

mazdaspeed2 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:41

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I haven't embeded a video in tiger yet, I guess it doesn't work how I thought, but the link still works, haha.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:42

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Well, If you are looking uniqueness, the XJ is notoriously easy to mod and with a tasteful lift it will stand out from all the riff-raff. Plus, most of them you'll find have already been modded for you and can be found for well under $7500.

Insurance is pretty cheap too. Gas will be costly though, I have the same 4.0L I-6 in my jeep (I own a '96 ZJ) and I manage to get about 14 summer and 12 winter (disclaimer: I do a lot of city driving). However, it has loads of low-end torque and plenty of power. That engine will keep going well past 200K. Also, Jeep's old rear-biased 4WD is extremely fun yet forgiving in the snow.

Downsides:

90's jeep are notorious for having rust problems.

From my experiences, the interiors don't hold up the best.

EL_ULY > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:42

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welcome to Oppo!

yes, that is a selfie for my avatar :]

thedevilinside > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:43

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I took care of my first car(minus a smallish accident that was repaired), so it isn't impossible to. I would be jealous if you had a Vehicross! It crossed my mind, and I was led to a forum for them. VehiCROSS.info You should check that out if you're seriously or semi seriously considering one. Good luck with whatever you choose!

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > JR1 03/31/2014 at 23:45

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Funny story about that. We were down a while ago looking at a Mitsubishi Montero Sport, and the dealer had an S-10 identical to that one, only in blue. The dealer suggested we look at that as well, so we took it for a short test drive, and I was surprised and impressed with it. Also, my dad may or may not have done a large power-brake behind a warehouse before returning it-that thing has got torque!

AJAC12 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:46

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Welcome to Oppo!

If you're looking for 4 (all) wheel drive.... I'm thinking you should at least consider a late 90's audi a4-a6 quattro, should easily be able to get one under a 100k in your price range plus its not hard to find either of them in manual.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > thedevilinside 03/31/2014 at 23:47

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Thanks for the link, it looks like it will be of help!

Clown Shoe Pilot > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:48

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Crown Vic is that car. There's a reason that cops and taxi companies have fleets of them. Roadmaster wagon would be pretty cool too, but the Crown Vic will be easier to keep on the road. The only bummer is the fuel use. It looks like everything you're interested in is sub-20 mpg. Being able to stretch your fuel dollar may not be a concern for you, but I remember being young and gas-poor.

I don't know how you feel about compact imports. If you're open to them and have a little patience, see if you can find an unmolested Honda CRX HF. They're light, fun to drive, fairly tough, tremendously underpowered (part of the fun) and you can make a long distance booty run on $5 worth of fuel.

thedevilinside > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:48

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And if you put a bra on it as pictured, be careful with it. They can mess up paint if not cleaned and dried properly.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Clown Shoe Pilot 03/31/2014 at 23:52

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Gas milage is fairly important, but the car will likely see only a few miles a day for the first year or so. As for the CRX, yes, I would be interested. Finding a nice one of any older sport compact seems to be a challenge, but I'll keep looking!

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > AJAC12 03/31/2014 at 23:58

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You hit the nail one the head. My dad had an Audi 100 he paid like four grand for several years ago, and if someone hadn't run a stop sign and totaled it, he might still be driving it. My mom, post-Trooper, has had three used A6 avants, first a '96 and then two '04, the second of which is still her car. I actually just drove a B6 A4 two days ago. Quattro, 3.0, six-speed manual, & aftermarket exhaust. It was a little out of my price range, but dammit, I loved that car!

Clown Shoe Pilot > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/31/2014 at 23:58

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If you're making short trips in town, crap fuel economy isn't much of an ass beating. If you're planning on driving it to college in another year and you're looking at a 150 mile trip home on the weekends then the calculus changes. From experience, I can say without a doubt - being "gas poor" sucks huge donkey dicks.

And yes, finding unmolested late 80s/early 90s sport compacts is very difficult. It's not impossible though, and the rewards are great :)

thebigbossyboss > davedave1111 04/01/2014 at 07:38

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Insurance in America is totally different from the UK.

JR1 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/01/2014 at 07:58

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Yes it does! They are great little trucks, little hard on gas but it's a truck so it happens.

davedave1111 > thebigbossyboss 04/01/2014 at 10:09

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No, not really. There are some differences, but in many senses the systems are the same. The prices vary wildly depending on location, of course.

Deucenberg > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/07/2014 at 02:43

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I can advise you on the Crown Vic and on the S-Class. I just recently bout a w116 S-Class (300SD with 181,000 miles, considered low miles actually) but was driving a 200,000 mile 96 Grand Marquis before that, and my parents also recently bought a 2006 Grand Marquis with around 46,000 miles (and aftermarket coil-overs in the rear). Of the three, my 300SD and the 2006 Mercury are very solid and pretty nice to drive, with the 300SD having the nicest brakes and steering of the 3 and the 2006 having the best handling/suspension. Low-miles 03+ Panther bodies are really great value. The 2006 is a very different beast than my worn out 96. The suspension geometry was revised and with the rear coil-overs, it drives completely differently, even though the 96 has recently had much of its suspension rebuilt. The 2006 corners pretty flat for what it is, and the steering is more direct but just as lifeless as in the 96; it really feels like you are driving a tank.

Now for the W126. I have not personally driven one yet but I do feel I can speak on it because of my experiences with Mercedes of the era. My brother has a 1987 190D N/A and I just bought my W116 for $1400. I paid that $1400 knowing full well that I would spend at least another $2000 on it fixing it up, even though mine is in pretty good shape. Parts for Mercedes of the era usually aren't really that expensive, but some can be (seals and servos). The thing is that most likely you will have trouble finding parts locally, something that you won't have to worry about with a Panther (my brother and I have had trouble even finding the European fuses before). The key is to order from websites such as Peach Parts or to buy new old stock on eBay for cheap prices. The dealership usually charges a lot more for parts, but not always. Basically, find the best one that you can afford, service records are great to have but a passionate owner who does his own work can also be great to buy from. Now to the W126; the W126 should be superior to the W116 across the board, except maybe for engine if you get the OM617 diesel shared between the W116 300SD and the early W126 300SD and SDL. I personally prefer the looks of the W116, but the W126 can look nice as well. My 300SD rides as nice if not better than the 2006 Mercury, but rolls a lot in the corners. The funny thing is that the Panther platform in only a few years newer than the w116, and certainly less sophisticated. The w126 is newer than the Panther platform and even more sophisticated. With 181,000 miles on it, my 300SD still feels really tight despite being very original. The 96 Mercury has 20,000 more miles but is a complete dog. Not the fairest of comparisons but overall the quality of the Mercedes is in a different league to compared either Grand Marquis. The Mercedes is a lot nicer to work on, everything is metric compared to the Marquises being a mixture of SAE and Metric, basic maintenance items are a lot easier to get to (difference between changing tail light bulbs is astounding), hood opens wide. This won't be any different on the W126.

Could continue on each for a while, but to sum things up, if you pay for a nice 03+ Panther or a nice W126, you won't go wrong. I would personally prefer the W126 but a Crown Vic isn't a bad choice.