Mazda 3 Sales Slump Isn't About Corolla/Civic

"Tom McParland" (tommcparland)
03/17/2014 at 17:16 • Filed to: Counter Point, MAzda 3, Articles

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! Mazda is a small automaker and will never touch the sales figures of Honda and Toyota. The 3's problem goes a little deeper than the standard compact competition. The problem is the very philosophy that the Mazda 3 stands for…"performance."

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O.k the Mazda 3 is not a real performance car, but it does appeal to people who need an affordable, all-around, compact that also adds some fun to the morning commute. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! But Doug owns a Ferrari, a Nissan Cube, as well as a Range Rover and has been known not to wear pants, so I'm not sure he really understands the perspective of "regular buyers." (kidding Doug).

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If you look at some historic sales figures the new 3 it is not too far off track.

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The last time Mazda did a major redesign of the 3 was in 2010 and now we have a brand new body style for 2014. When you factor in the rough winter that has impacted overall sales in addition to the excessive inventory of '13 models across all brands that are being sold with heavy discounts, the '14 3 is selling pretty similar in the first two months as in 2010.

But Doug was right about one thing….the number of really good cars that compete with the Corolla and Civic. These cars are the ones creating problems for the 3. What is great about Mazda is they refuse to play the beige game, the 3 is not for the people who want a compact that is nothing more than an appliance. The 3 appeals to us, the Jalops, now the thing with us is that we are not your traditional cross-shoppers. We want to get the most fun for our money, and this is where the 3 is getting outclassed.

A Mazda 3 5-door SV (2.0 SKYACTIV) with a 6MT has an MSRP of 20,040. A Ford Fiesta ST can be optioned with the same minimal equipment for 21,475. Yes, the Fiesta is a smaller and is really a different class of car, but 190hp for under 22 grand is hard to pass up. Now if you want to upgrade to the larger 184hp 2.5 SKYACTIV and get all the bells and whistles you are looking at a 2.5 Grand Touring for 27,590. This is where I find things to get a bit ridiculous, especially since MSRP on my 2010 3s 2.5 GT 6MT was about 24k. A Focus ST, same size as the 3, starts at under 24k, a VW GTI goes for around 26k. Those are some serious performance alternatives. But let's say you didn't want to get that extreme of a hoon machine, a Dodge Dart GT with a 184hp 2.4L engine 6MT optioned with practically everything will only set you back only 23k.

It seems that while Mazda was aiming for the Jalop crowd they were shooting at the Corolla and Civic and not the driver oriented alternatives that are on our radar, but not necessarily on the shopping list of the average buyer.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is a professional car buying consultant, lover of all things automotive and a bit wagon obsessed. You can find more ramblings and plenty of carporn !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

DISCUSSION (100)

jkm7680 > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 17:24

Still don't see why besides brand recognition, is it much more interesting than a Corolla or a Civic.

Takuro Spirit > jkm7680
03/17/2014 at 17:59

Driving dynamics. Feel. Sound. Looks.

spanfucker retire bitch > jkm7680
03/17/2014 at 18:13

It's quite a good value for the money at certain trim levels. It's also way more fuel efficient than the Corolla or Civic.

And for those who do enjoy a little bit of driving - the difference is night and day. I used to own a Matrix (same platform as the Corolla) and let me tell you, driving back to back, it's hilarious how much better the Mazda is. The body roll alone is drastically different and overwhelmingly in favor of the Mazda.

I understand why the average folk would have no need for that. But if your'e asking why "we" appreciate the 3, it's enhancements like that. Also, I think the new interiors are amazing.

jkm7680 > spanfucker retire bitch
03/17/2014 at 18:16

People just don't like changing brands. They are faithful to Honda and Toyota, yet they don't know what they are missing from having a little more fun.

Vintage1982Benz > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 18:21

Test drove a Mazda 3 hatch (sticker right around where you said, Tom) and drove home with a GLI Autobahn instead for the same price.

Once you get in the 25-30K range, there are a lot of cars to choose from, and that is where the 3 loses some of its luster.

You also pointed out my next car - a Fiesta ST, which is cheaper than all of them, but a great car for someone living in a major metro who wants a fun, practical and CHEAP car. Performance I'm not afraid to park on the street.

signintokinjalol > jkm7680
03/17/2014 at 18:29

Reliability.

That's what sells car. Everyone knows Honda and Toyota's are reliable cars, everyone.

Mazda? Oh, that's the zoom zoom company??

jkm7680 > signintokinjalol
03/17/2014 at 18:33

Yeah, Toyota still hasn't lost customers, even with the accelerator recall and several more major recalls to date. If that happened to Mazda, staying in business would be troubling.

signintokinjalol > jkm7680
03/17/2014 at 18:36

It depends on the reaction of the company when you have a recall like that.

Imagine the suffering GM is getting with those "deadly" recalls, when lives are lost and ignored, that's how you lose customers for life.

I'm sure you've heard of the accelerator problems in the 80's for Audi, they didn't know how to react to it, Audi was almost gone. Also those problems never really existed.

jkm7680 > signintokinjalol
03/17/2014 at 18:38

With Audis, if America just bought manual transmissions, none of that would have happened, Haha.

With the Cobalt, my chances of buying a Chevrolet have nearly halved. 13 deaths, that could have been avoided, but somebody put "Profit" ahead of human life. Whoever made that decision should be tried for 13 counts of murder, because they knew about it all along.

Zac Estrada > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:36

It was never going to sell on Civic/Corolla levels, for sure. But I feel like Mazda's targeting for the new 3 is off. Not only are incentives lower, but it pushes into family car/compact crossover territory. And when their CX-5 and 6 are very good and very efficient, you have to wonder how much of that is affecting the 3's sales too.

Darksider1972 > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:39

I believe that, I had to recently talk my girl out of getting another Corolla, because that's what shes familiar with and did not want to even try and research other cars in the same segment that are a lot better than the Corolla.

Doug Nash > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:40

Maybe, it's because the Mazda 3 is yet another FWD econo-car. I thought the only Mazda whackos were just the Miata crowd, but I guess I was wrong. Mazdas are hardly pillars of high-quality and reliability, so it's not like you can set them apart like that. And you can turbo-up the 3 all you want, but at the end of the day, it's still just a FWD car, and in that vein, there are plenty of other choices (even besides the Honda and Toyota).

So, sorry, not getting this false lust over the Mazda.

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:43

Perhaps the Mazda 3 doesn't sell because it looks exactly like the 6, which is exactly like a scaled down CX-5. When people go shopping for cars, sure they want a sexy car, but not one that gets easily confused with every other car in the company's portfolio.

I like Mazda's design, but they haven't evolved it, and they're just slapping it on every model.

I'd like to see a ballsy AWD Mazdaspeed3. That would sell like hot cakes, especially with a widebody and some nice aero.

hethoughtofcars > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:46

It seems to be doing pretty well with the mainstream press. It was on the cover of Consumer Reports Auto Issue. I've seen quite a few of the new CX-5s and Mazda6s lately. But people don't seem to associate Mazda with the "Japanese Reliability" of a Toyota, Honda or Nissan yet. Not sure why, because it ranks right up there. Maybe they bought a lot of Tributes?

Tom McParland > hethoughtofcars
03/17/2014 at 19:47

Like many have said the critics love it...and it is a great car, but the sales figs should be better and they are not.

Beju > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:48

I would guess that the pricing issues are part of the problem of a small, non-luxury automaker having unique platforms and engines. Mazda can't spread development costs between as many units as Toyota (who still used a version of their MC platform that was new in 2006 for the new Corolla), nor do they have the profit margins of BMW to make up for that low volume.

Hopefully, plans like the 2/Yaris and the Miata/Fiat/Alfa roadster sharing platforms make Mazda more competitive on price while still keeping their mainsteam cars as the fun proposition in their classes.

hethoughtofcars > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:52

Well it's a damn good looking car. Hopefully that and word of mouth will get people to buy it. Then again I helped a ex-girlfriend buy a previous gen Mazda3 GT with the six speed manual new (the version that looks like it's smiling) so what do I know?

twerqy > Zac Estrada
03/17/2014 at 19:53

I wonder how much it has to do with them not being able to afford a hotshot marketing team.

"Bruce Lee! Hipster song! Buy a car!"

(Still leaps and bounds better than the Civic's most recent ad campaign)

seoultrain > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:53

I don't see a 5-door SV on Mazda's site. Looks like you're talking about the i Touring at $20k.

Look away from the hatch (the horror!), and you can get a 4-door 3i SV 6MT for under $17k MSRP. That's all the driving dynamics and things we love with none of those complicated features that might go wrong and definitely will age. You still get power windows, so it's not a stripped model.

Nothing new can touch that car in terms of smiles per dollar. Maybe the Fit.

istandabove > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:54

It's cause it's ugly the first two looked good.

mykie > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:57

Mazda's target demo is also savvy enough never to buy the first model right after a major overhaul in a line; it will likely pick up in the next model year.

plak424 > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:58

They need a mazdaspeed version

Spacecadet > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 19:59

FYI, the hatchback you're talking about is a Mazda3 iSport not a iSV, iSV is only available as a sedan, I promise, I sell them.

Blakkar > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:00

With what MAZDA plans on doing, and how relatively little they plan to do, few they plan to build, Mazda needs to look at being more upscale, either in fitment and appointment, of mechanism. Dare I say, RWD and/or AWD for their cars>? Not just FWD with about the same power, suspension, but a touch tighter, and a few other niceties that FORD and others are doing for about the same price or less.

A notch better is not nearly good enough any more. For the same money you need to look at being actually different from the majority of the crowd.

bacavoit > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:00

The biggest problem is it's models. In the US they have 5 diff models and Im not sure about the rest of the world but in Mexico they sell just 4, in Mexico the sGT is the sTouring up in the states and because of this I havent trade my 2011 2.5 sGT sedan for the new 2014. The mexican 2014 sGT has no dual zone and automatic A/C, no paddle shifters, the fkn display is optional and I just cant remember the rest of what is not in the top mexican model.

The 2nd gen sold quite nice in here and those who have/had it loved it. I really like the new design but trading it for the new model is actually a downgrade.

nchockey > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:01

Invoice price on a base Benz CLA 250: $27, 807. Invoice price on a Mazda 3 Grand touring sedan with Tech Pkg: $27,385.

A small Mazda compact is $300 cheaper than a new Benz.

GrauGeist > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:01

I'm a little irritated that people expect the Mazda 323 to sell in Civic or Corolla numbers. The original source article was that 323 sales are down relative to last year, whereas the Civic and Corolla are doing well relative to last year:

+17.8% Subaru Impreza (incl WRX and XV)

-1.6% Toyota Corolla

-2.7% Honda Civic

-3.2% Subaru Impreza (ignore WRX and XV variants)

-27.6% Mazda 3

See the numbers? Mazda is getting killed compared to the competition, winter or not - the WRX and BRZ are both up, despite it being winter.

Jorge Milian > The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL
03/17/2014 at 20:02

Yowza! 300 HP and AWD ,bye-bye torque steer .

GFFFFF > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:03

I as a former 3 owner, 2004 model. I left the brand, and let me explain why. #1) It served a pretty fun way to drive to college, almost 45 minutes away through the country on winding amish roads. It was economical, and with Obama in office, our gas prices have skyrocketed. I got rid of it last year, for job reasons. I needed something off-road worthy and utilitarian. I hate pickups, so I have a 2 dr Wrangler now (manual, blacked out 31 ").

That all said, after leaving the brand and looking at the new models; I realized its become what a car would look like if JEZEBEL blog got ahold of a spawn of a Supra. I feel like its a car that an ashamed, de-testosteroned man would drive. A car, a disgruntled husband would get when his wife won't let him get something cool. Its a pissed off, tied down, jalops anything but a toyoterhonda car. Its a middle ground to keep your wife off your back, as you finish filling out your divorce paperwork or too chicken to tell her you're cheating on her. In essence, its become a pussies car. And for that, we can thank the new sensitive man created by the JEZEBELS of the world.

The initial car seemed pretty standard, a little bit flashy, but not really. Pretty straight and narrow Japanese. It just flowed well. Then it got curves, and a smiley face, and high hips, and french inspired taillamps or something. Its a car that's a freaking mess, basically like all the middle class white guys driving them.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > GrauGeist
03/17/2014 at 20:09

Is this car actually called the 323 in any markets these days?

I miss Mazda's old naming conventions.

Hunsbergring > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:12

This is the first salvo in Mazda's attempt to move upmarket. The new 3 and 6 both have relatively low starting prices, but the uplevel versions are getting mighty dear.

I've always thought of Mazda as "Japan's BMW," but they need to get some serious performance models back into the lineup if they want to build the cred to pull it off. They need to get some halo models back in there.

New Miata better be a stonker...

Victorious Secret > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:12

Ford played the 'beige' game and is getting massive sales out of the Focus without being 'beige'.

Mazda has no excuses.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > GrauGeist
03/17/2014 at 20:14

Mazda stopped making the 323/Protege/Familia in 2003.

Hectic > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:15

Besides the obvious problems with resale and depreciation, I will never understand the attraction to these small, slow, cheesy little cars, when for another $200 a month you could drive a car, (or truck) with real style and true performance, (take your pick). Seriously, if you can't come up with a couple extra ben franklins every month to drive something respectable, what the hell are you doing buying a new car?

seoultrain > GFFFFF
03/17/2014 at 20:15

That's a lot of anger there. The car hasn't changed that much in 2 generations apart from looks. It's still a similar car to what it was in 2004. I, too, have gotten something "manlier" after selling my 3, but is the "pussy's car" label really warranted? Also, many women buy Mazda 3s of all generations.

Plenty of people want a fun-to-drive car that is fuel-efficient. There aren't many (any?) cars that do both better than the Mazda 3 (as you should know).

seoultrain > mykie
03/17/2014 at 20:18

That actually shows in the sales from 2010-2013, though Skyactiv might have had to do something with that.

Cheesewhiz > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:19

Actually, you're wrong. Sales are in the tank to the tune of 30% relative to a few years ago when nobody was buying cars! Since then, the market has recovered but Mazda/Mazda3 sales have not. Why is that?

Simple: If you look at their purchase funnel, they're okay in awareness but pretty abysmal below that. "Opinion" and "consideration" in this segment is driven by two things: Efficiency and quality. The 3 is great on efficiency but a "sporty" reputation nixes some if that perception. That and it's a brand new attribute for this brand so it isn't concrete yet. The bigger issue is "brand opinion", led by quality, or lack of.

Mazda's rep for quality holds it back on every stage of the purchase funnel. They aren't thought highly of therefore they're poorly considered. When they are, they aren't shopped. When they aren't shopped there's no discovery so they aren't bought, period.

If they put a program in place to build quality perceptions, this would change. But they won't.

Spasoje > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:21

I reviewed the 2010 model (back then) and came to the same conclusion: for the price of the average Civic or Corolla, the Mazda3 is the only way to go. For the price of a Golf/GTI/Focus, the Mazda isn't the clear winner anymore.

seoultrain > Hectic
03/17/2014 at 20:22

What does an extra $200/month get you that is new and has "real style" and "true performance"?

DMCVegas > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:31

It's not a bad car, but it just didn't appeal to us enough last weekend when we went car shopping. The interior is what kinda kills me. The Ford Focus does what I would consider a much nicer job on the Center Stack. Be it the entry-level SYNC, or the My Touch SYNC, the LCD screens are properly grafted into the car. The Mazda looks like a chintzy docking station with a Walgreens tablet in the center (or an aftermarket Sirius unit depending upon which you chose). The HUD is neat, but the binnacle just doesn't have all of the analog gauges that I want that the Focus does.

The lines on the outside are "ok", but the interior we just didn't care for. It looks really old.

On top of that, Mazda's site sucks when it comes to building and pricing one. You look at Ford's site for the Focus and it drills-down from Sedan or Hatch? -> Stick or Auto? -> Standard, SE, Platnum, or ST? -> And then you just choose accessories and you're done. Mazda just kind of leaves you to it to figure stuff out on their site. And then with the little things here and there that got bundled into other packages instead of being standard...

Then there was buying. Aside from the Mazda 3 been more expensive than the Ford Focus despite the add-on packages we chose, we went to a Ford dealer that was already selling below MSRP and then dropped the price by another $2,500 thanks to rebates.

I don't have anything against Mazda at all. It was the brand of car my parents had for years when I was a kid. But it just doesn't connect with me.

Cheesewhiz > Vintage1982Benz
03/17/2014 at 20:32

Yeah, but you aren't getting anywhere remotely close to the fuel efficiency or the features that come in a kitted out 3. That's not your goal obviously but efficiency and some features are what sell in volume. GLI's definitely don't sell in volume — The only brand in a more dangerous sales position now is VW.

Most 3's sell in the low-end trim range, around $20k. That's far from the range of "performance" cars.

GFFFFF > seoultrain
03/17/2014 at 20:32

I'm saying it doesn't have to be like that. And I think they've made a nominal effort at getting back to a quality design with the new language. The previous generation was the generation I was truly refering too here. I feel like the new design is still trying to shake off the sparkly glitter and milligrams of Prozac; but its infinitely better than what came out after the 1st generation vehicles. What else is available? For the money I think I would go with any number of used foreign imports, maybe a nice Merc in diesel or a Saab 9-3 and preferably the 3x if you can get it. These all of course require a certain amount of tooling ability to stay affordable to operate compared to the 3 which for me, literally required ZERO mechanical fixes in the 8 years I owned. My only hatred of that car was the shit metal that rusted to crap so quickly and the unwillingness of Mazda to do anything about it.

BlackLab > seoultrain
03/17/2014 at 20:32

Mustang, Camaro, Ram Truck. That's just off the top of my head.

BlackLab > Doug Nash
03/17/2014 at 20:34

Agree. Mazda's drive a little nicer then Hondas - but so do Volkswagens - how come we are not crying about those cars not selling well?

LoremIpsum010101 > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:34

Kinja'd!!!

Excellent...let the dealer incentives proceed....

QCIC > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:35

When I bought a car I had to get a Ford so I got a Focus Hatchback. But the 3 would have been on my radar if not for the non-car considerations.

The Transporter > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/17/2014 at 20:35

Get your kicks on Route 626.

Tom Hegedosh > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:37

Start selling the bigger engine with the manual tranny available? I think its a beautiful car, but I'd hold out for the Speed version if I was in the market

seoultrain > GFFFFF
03/17/2014 at 20:41

The last-gen was definitely a bit feminine, but it's a car, not an extension of your character. Besides, women buy plenty of compact cars. Mazda wants their money, too.

My 3 was also completely trouble-free for 8+ years before I sold it (not even a hint of rust either). I doubt many Mercedes or Saab owners (besides the 2x, which isn't a Saab) go that long without problems. The 9-3 also isn't that fuel-efficient, and those are used cars, which is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Stradale > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:42

Totally agree, I think this is the problem with Mazda's whole lineup. We test drove a CX5 recently as we are planning on replacing our Murano soon and the lack of power was a killer even in the CUV market. It looked great, drove great, but it felt anemic when pulling out onto the highway and that is a deal killer. Even though it is much cheaper than getting another Murano or CPO RX350 we have ruled out the Mazda.

Doug Nash > BlackLab
03/17/2014 at 20:45

Well, considering how well VAG is doing, I'm not entirely sure they're crying about anything right now.

JACU - I've got bonifides. > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:47

I think Mazda, at least with it's higher priced 3 with the 2.5, has crossed into the Euro premium hatch territory. I think this is great! What I don't think is great is offering such a package without a manual option and at least 200hp. I don't mind the money as long as the structural integrity, quality and fun to drive factor is there. The 3's good looks, especially the 5 door, does not hurt a bit either.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:51

If I were buying today (which I'm not...), I'd still think about the Mazda3, but probably end up in a 500 Abarth, with my corporate discount on FCA products.

However, when I bought my 2013 Skyactiv, right after the 2014 3 came out, with my corporate discount, it was a no-brainer. It doesn't hurt that I love the happy-grinny Derpface Mazda3's styling.

David Moore > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:52

I agree about the pricing. I have a 2010 Mazda 3s 6spd, the base version of it. I don't remember what MSRP was but I was out the door something under 22k. And your point is also perfect in the other day I was thinking about a replacement and the answer I came up with was the Fiesta ST.

But ultimately I am just throwing some money at the 3 and driving it for another 100k.

falcodorewhore > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:53

For the last 5 years or so, the Mazda 3 has been the top selling model in Australia, if it's not number 1, it's in the top 3. Although I haven't seen as many of the new model as I expected so far.

GrauGeist > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
03/17/2014 at 20:56

AFAIC, it's still a "323" :)

GrauGeist > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/17/2014 at 20:58

Probably not - I just like the old name.

PardonMyFlemish16 > jkm7680
03/17/2014 at 20:59

It lets "enthusiasts" have a beige car and a self-appointed pass to say their car is interesting.

In reality, the 3 is a good mainstream economy car, but at the end of the day it's still a mainstream economy car with all the limitations and implications therein.

leftinvt > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 20:59

It's probably the silly grin. It's a problem, like trying to like a novelty song after the first listen.

Jcooper > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:00

I've actually been looking at getting a Mazda 3 and shocked how fast their prices rise with very few options..the main reason I haven't moved forward.

SubieRoo > DMCVegas
03/17/2014 at 21:01

Agreed...it's a great car but there's just so much competition in a segment that is dominated by huge automakers and, increasingly, Subaru. I think it's got less to do with the Civic and Corolla and more to do with everyone else.

Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:01

I just went and priced one out on the Mazda website and holy tap-dancing christ.. I got one up to 31k after tax/fees. And it's not even a Speed3. That's well into BRZ territory.

TheCrudMan > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:02

Sorry but a lot of Jalops also want 40MPG and regular gas in their daily drivers...and so do a lot of people, who also want a dynamic feel, great interior, etc.

Cheesewhiz > Zac Estrada
03/17/2014 at 21:03

Zac, four things caused this:

The factory transition. They just started up the new Mexican facility and mistimed the launch badly. All their product had to come from Japan up to now, inhibiting supply AND their ability to spend on marketing. Limited supply held up CX5 as well, ruining their chances to make hay while the buzz was hot and the market's sun shined. Stupid.

Their quality rep has held them back, particularly in states that salt their roads. Past problems with rust are well known to everyone BUT Mazda so the sales are compromised by their inability to address it. Though the actual quality is quite good now, they aren't doing anything to change perceptions killing their brand and they launched media right at the moment the entire country was watching salted roads on the news. Not smart.

Poor marketing. They mistimed the launch, put no media weight in place until after the hype subsided, spent all their money when people were not shopping, divided their message on features rather than brand attributes and generally forgot about their core market altogether (enthusiasts). Mazda has never been known for marketing but there's no excuse for chaos when the product is finally great and the life of the company is on the line.

Price. It doesn't take a wizard to realize they don't have the brand equity to sustain a premium price in the paper-thin margins of this hyper-competitive segment. Given the other issues they've created for themselves (above), they'll have to put incentives on the hood, which is another way of saying "we're going to hammer our brand into discount obscurity in order to keep our new factory moving." They only get a couple hundred premium on the 6 over Accord so they didn't think this one through.

Michael Zaite > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:04

Have you ever been to a Mazda dealership where it seemed like the sales staff was running on all cylinders? I'd like to see how many people Looked at a Mazda3 vs bought one.

jkm7680 > PardonMyFlemish16
03/17/2014 at 21:06

Agreed.

Tom McParland > Zac Estrada
03/17/2014 at 21:07

Agreed...on the off target thing. And thanks for the share, I was mulling this piece over all day but didn't have anytime to write. Then i saw Doug's post and found a half-hour to scramble something out. So my editing is probably not the best.

Frankenbike666 > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:08

Forget the Civic and Corolla. How is the Mazda 3 doing against the Focus, the largest selling single model of car in the world?

I'm starting to see the new Mazda 3s around town. Nice looking cars. I think the reason they're not selling as well as they should, is that people don't know they exist. As they see them on the street, I think they'll catch on.

Mazda let the 3 get really really long in the tooth before they did this redesign, and that has a lot of momentum. If you're looking for a car, and all the Mazda 3s you see are the old model, you don't even consider it as an option.

LTIROCKS > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:13

Mazda's overall reliability isn't all that great, their dealer network is weak by Honda/Toyota standards...and the new 3's seats are lacking in comfort - just like the last 3's.

Furthermore, there's no longer a Speed 3 variant to "boost" sales..

The soon to come, all new'15 Golf will make the 3 look like the fool's choice in every way.

Hectic > seoultrain
03/17/2014 at 21:16

Come on? I have to spell it out? How about an A5 or a BMW 3-series, or a Lexus IS, or an Infiniti Q50, heck even a Mustang would be better. There are heaps of respectable cars under $40K

BullittFan_Fords4Life > GFFFFF
03/17/2014 at 21:19

Hahahaha, everything about this post (and your prior ones across the Gawkerverse) screams "limpdicked, gullible conservative moron". Go fuck yourself with a pink sparkly dildo.

janewaycmh > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:21

Hmmm, I have 2005 and wanted a 2014...although when I build one with Mazda's configurator, I cannot get the upgraded engine with a stick!! Sorry Mazda, WRX here I come!!!

GoDogGo > GrauGeist
03/17/2014 at 21:26

I suppose you call Ford Focus "Escort" or "Tempo" as well? You call Nissan "Datsun"? Audi A6 is a "5000" to you?!

Tom McParland > Michael Zaite
03/17/2014 at 21:27

I've dealt with a few...they are hit and miss but so is every other mainstream brand.

Bwahahahaha > Hectic
03/17/2014 at 21:27

I find it funny that you say "if you can't come up with a couple extra ben franklins every month to drive something respectable, what the hell are you doing buying a new car." In my opinion, you should not be buying a new car unless you can afford to purchase it (i.e. in cash). Cars are a depreciating asset, and as such not at item for which you should take out a loan to purchase.

Buy used until you can afford to buy new. In cash. Your long-term financial health will thank you.

blarghety > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:28

You mention the comparison of the price/performance of the Mazda3 GT versus the Focus ST. This was the exact comparison I made, and the Focus ST won. I prefer the interior and tech of the Mazda3 versus the Focus (good GOD is Sync terrible) by a country mile, but the Mazda felt surprisingly soft versus previous generations and especially compared to the Focus. What sealed the deal was the absence of the manual transmission option for the 2.5 Sky-G engine, as there was no way I was saddling myself with the 2.0. Lack of highway passing power was half the reason I was looking to get out of my old car (an aging 2003 Outback).

The only regrets I have are that a) Sync is terrible and b) the Focus doesn't get anywhere near it's rated mileage unless you baby it and drive exactly the speed limit.

Oh, did I mention that Sync is terrible?

ktonl > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:33

Who the fuck does Mazda think it is, selling their cars for so much? Ford is known for their high profit margins. They should be aiming for a sell price closer to Hyundai/Kia

AdmiralAkbar > spanfucker retire bitch
03/17/2014 at 21:41

I am one of the people you mentioned cross shopping the 2.0 Mazda 3 with the Fiesta ST. With identical topped up options (sunroof and all that) they're basically the same price.

spanfucker retire bitch > Michael Zaite
03/17/2014 at 21:42

There's two around me, and the one I bought my Mazda3 from had excellent sales staff. I was actually impressed with how much I didn't despise being there.

It was a pretty pleasant experience.

seoultrain > Hectic
03/17/2014 at 21:44

So $200/month at the least to pay for one of those cars, an additional $100/month to fuel it, and another $50/month to insure it. That's over $4k/year without taking into account the increased depreciation or repair cost after warranty. Not everyone wants to stretch their budget for a badge. The Mustang is nowhere near practical enough for many people.

Hectic > Bwahahahaha
03/17/2014 at 21:50

Sorry, but I like my cash to make me money; Auto loan 2.2%, annual rate of return on investments, 21%. you do the math.

spanfucker retire bitch > AdmiralAkbar
03/17/2014 at 21:52

Except they don't even compete against each other - totally different size categories. The Fiesta would go up against the Mazda2. It's like comparing the Focus to the Mazda6 and pointing out how you can get all the same features - and more - for less.

Well. Duh.

Icarus8 > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 21:53

Yep. Why do you have to spend $26K to get a 3 with the 184hp engine? Because Mazda is insane, that's why, to think they can compete with a 200hp VW GTI at the same price.

AltheaLater > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 22:04

It wouldn't hurt if Mazda spiced up the interior of the new 3 a bit. Maybe 2-tone seats, etc. The seat materials on the base model look low-rent. And the color choices Mazda has nowadays are not too exciting either.

Shilly_Devane > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 22:10

Paying $20K for an "economy" car seems quite the antithesis of economy.

Hectic > seoultrain
03/17/2014 at 22:15

Sorry, but my brain won't allowing me to argue the practical aspects of car buying; does not compute.

Michael Zaite > spanfucker retire bitch
03/17/2014 at 22:17

Perhaps it's a local thing. Mazda dealerships here tend to be mostly empty and rarely are operated by one of the big dealer groups. Not un-pleasent, just not VOLUME, VOLUME, SELL ALL THE THINGS!!!! kind of places. like Honda and Toyota places round here tend to be. Very aggressive them,

AdmiralAkbar > spanfucker retire bitch
03/17/2014 at 22:19

They are definitely competing to be in my lane way. They are both practical hatchbacks, both get over 30mpg, both have a reputation for being very fun to drive and they're both about 24.3k in when optioned exactly where I want them. The decision is just the extra size and MPG of the 3 vs the smaller but way more fun Fiesta. Both would suit my needs perfectly and it's a tough choice.

seoultrain > Hectic
03/17/2014 at 22:26

Haha, that's why we're all here right?

I'm Joe, and I'm a car addict.

Smoak on the Water > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 22:35

If my recent experience is any indication - my wife and I test drove a new Mazda 3 10 days ago. We've been looking for a new daily driver to replace the BMW 3 with something with better MPG, and the Mazda seemed like a good fit. It's really quite a nice car at that price point with solid features and it feels great on the road. The wife even enjoyed the car, and she's never cared for Mazda's interiors. We were willing to buy one within 72 hours of the test drive, once we got the BMW back from a factory recall for the trade-in. At the time, the salesman was more interested in steering us to the more expensive 6, but gas mileage was more important to us than something that is more comparable to the BMW. The 3 easily wins that battle.

I called the salesman and left him a message, and then sent an email. A few days later, I sent another email to the dealership. I still haven't heard anything back. We had a check for $26,000 we'd have loved to given you, anonymous suburban Maryland Mazda dealership. Shame somebody else has it now, because while I enjoyed that Mazda, my wife found something she liked better. You had your chance.

This is reminiscent of the recent story about declining sales in the BRZ/FRS lineup, due to incompetent sales' people and piss-poor training. Or,maybe Mazda is giving out some sales' spiff to 6 sales, so the staff doesn't want to sell 3s? I don't know. It's a shame, it's such a nice car.

Compasteedee > hethoughtofcars
03/17/2014 at 22:45

Nissan? Reliability? What's that?

360ad > ktonl
03/17/2014 at 23:02

While the target and pricing might be off, I disagree with you. Low price has the effect of cheapening a brand image. Look at Hyundai and Kia, their prices have been climbing steadily too through the years. And compare those two brands to more established ones, they still have the impression of being cheaper.

One problem/cause that hasn't been mentioned so far in either articles: it takes time to change long standing brand perceptions. Case in point, some of you might be old enough to remember Audi from the 80s. The German brand didn't make their brand what it is overnight. It's taken them a long time, starting in 1994 with the A4 B5. And year after year, they built on that with not just production cars but also with efforts in engineering and racing. Mazda is just starting on their path to recovery with the new Kodo generation of cars.

All great brands have history, and strive to create it everyday. Things may have gone awry for Mazda during the Ford years, they are on the mend. It's premature to write them off for a small set-back along the way. And, I hope they don't. Audi certainly didn't when they didn't find success right away. Look at them now, neck and neck with BMW.

suss6052 > blarghety
03/17/2014 at 23:04

On what planet is Sync terrible? Do you have the base Sync system or MFT? Neither system has given me much in the way of headaches and the voice recognition is usually pretty good.

The nav screen in the current 3 looks as tacked on as the other cars it is mimicing, it was awful to look at in comparison to the 2012 Focus or the 2013 Focus ST, but I never got to drive one as it wasn't available when I bought my ST.

babaganouche > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 23:08

Kinja'd!!!

Want some feedback from someone who almost bought one ? Here is why the 3 is lagging in sales 1 - Mazda salesmen (and women) can't explain SKYACTIV for crap, 3 dealerships and all 3 gave me the -hmm, it's a combination of new technologies that make you go (Pakled style) my Wife wasn't impressed ... 2 - The grand multitude of RUSTING 3- 5 year old Mazda's that litter the street, it's been a snowy winter up north here and the dealerships were charging 800$ for a 'life time guaranteed rustproofing 3 - The crappy little screen with the infuriating 'joystick' vs the simple touch screen on the Corolla.

We ended up getting a ridiculous deal financing a 'demo A3' with an extended warranty and guess what ... the 2014 Corolla S which despite all the garbage spewed on this website about it, is an insanely decent car with the best seats in it's category and a fantastic sound system that actually streams my ipod, has a backup camera, heated seats AND steering commands that work (I'm looking at you Honda) plus voice commands for my contact list. Yes how horrible, cringe Jalops that my daily driver is just an iPod with wheels as far as I'm concerned ! I don't care, snicker at me, call me beige and vanilla ... there I said it, I LIKE THE COROLLA

Before deciding what to choose we tried 7 different cars, from the new Kia Soul, Jetta, new Chevies, Focus, Civic (with defective steering wheel controls), Mazda 3, Elantra and certified used Euros (Volvo, Audi) etc ...

boneheadotto > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 23:15

I love the Mazda 3 but i was at the dealership recently and the 3 hatchback on display had a sticker price of $30k. Im sure that turns a ton of buyers off because they are not stupid. A base of $27k for a touring is just stupid. While i love the Mazda 3, its just too expensive ATM.

Bwahahahaha > Hectic
03/17/2014 at 23:42

Yep, that's the exception. If are successfully making a 21% ROI, then more power to you! Or buy cash, and invest the rest if you have the means (this may be better for more risk averse individuals).

Unfortunately, however, this is not scenario most have on the table, so I still don't advocate upping the "monthly payment" to drive a nicer car if that simply means raising your interest rate and placing people more in debt. The majority are unfortunately financing a depreciating investment and coming out in the negative. These people should still be advised to not finance a vehicle.

John Coctostan > Tom McParland
03/17/2014 at 23:46

With the new redesign of the Miata Mazda needs to get back to its roots by promoting racing and in a big way. Mazda use too be king of the track and still is in some corners.

monkeymd > spanfucker retire bitch
03/17/2014 at 23:50

Have to agree. Bought my cx9 sport and it was a great buying experience. They even matched an ad which was 3500 below msrp even though the model they had in stock also had heated seats. I also wanted a tv/dvd installed. They arranged with a local audio shop to get it installed within a day.

Really want trade in my Honda Fit for a Mazda 3 or 6. Want a hatchback, but can't get over how great the 6 looks.

Matt > Tom McParland
03/18/2014 at 00:00

I briefly considered the new 3 when I bought my Focus ST. I got my Focus loaded with the ST3 package (just over $30k sticker) and paid $26k with 0.0% financing from Ford. As nice as the Mazda 3 was, for the money, taking the ST was a no-brainer.

ComradeSlow > Tom McParland
03/18/2014 at 00:24

In addition to sales being impacted by weather and lingering previous generation '13 models being sold huge discounts they also made a lot more grand touring models at first, so you had a lot of cars in the $25K range and that has to be narrowing the demographic. I'm sure they will pick up over the course of the year. I've driven the competition and you are definitely getting more for your money with the Mazda.