Daimler, what the slack?

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 03/12/2014 at 16:47 • Filed to: None

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Seriously, Mercedes has been in existence for over 100 years, yet they don't own any brand, instead of their Mercedes and the tiny Smart brand. Their only tried to takeover Chrysler, but failed and they had to sell the company.

During the Carpocalypse and after it, many brands were for garbs, some of them for peanuts. Yet, Daimler played in the defensive, contrasting with VAG's buying frenzy. They are getting close to Aston Martin via intermediates, instead of throwing a suitcase full of money on the table, and buy the struggling brand.

Now, another struggling brand is Lancia, reduced to one model and sold only in Italy? For a brand with the history of Lancia, that is worse than death. Mercedes could become a hero for Italians by buying, and transforming it into a transition brand, like Volvo or Acura (mainstream with premium markets allure). I'm sure Marchionne would sell it, if Daimler would guarantee production and R&D bases in Italy. I mean, Italian design with German built quality, looks like a winning combination to me.

Lastly, they could use Renault and Nissan's expertise with cheap cars, and turn Smart, into a no frills, rival for cheap brands, like Skoda and Renault-Nissan's own Dacia\Datsun pair.

Stop putting the Mercedes badge on vans and trucks, damn it.

oldirtybootz > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 16:54

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I won't touch anything that comes from Daimler. They had their chance with Chrysler, any other automaker would be wise to stay the hell away from them.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 16:58

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Well, i think mercedes has making trucks for 1 Million Years actually...

Party-vi > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 17:03

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Mercedes didn't buy Chrysler. Daimler-Benz merged (purchased) with Chrysler Corporation, renamed it DaimlerChrysler and then let their new toy languish. When Ze Germans checked in on Chrysler they realized it sucked and basically gave it away to Cerberus. Daimler AG learned their lesson with empire-building and now sits content.

Why would Daimler do the same exact thing that almost ruined them a decade earlier? Lancia has been a zombie for the past few decades anyway; let it die with dignity.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > oldirtybootz 03/12/2014 at 17:13

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Stop staying sour, they lost a lot of money with Chrysler, mostly because Chrysler managers took bad decisions and the workers were unmotivated and a bit lazy. Instead of coming to the Chrysler HQ, and say "ve will need to do this und that und some of that, alles klar?", they kept most of Chrysler old management, and only helped with engineers and money, taking some decisions, based on what reports they got from said Chrysler managers, without leaving their Stuttgart HQ.

Marchionne is having some success with Chrysler, because he has his people, telling Chrysler exactly what he wants from them, and fired the workers who were causing trouble, before the Carpocalypse was over.

LuczOr > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 17:31

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Daimler doesn't "put badges" on vans and trucks, they literally own those companies and design those products. As a matter of fact, I work for Daimler. I am under the Daimler Trucks division, specifically the Daimler Trucks North America company who designs and builds Freightliner and Western Star Trucks. The company is located in the United States, but make no mistake, we are Daimler. I work under the director of Vehicle Analysis, Andre Strobel (a German), who reports to the head of Engineering, Wilfred Achenbach (a German) who reports to the CEO, Martin Daum (a German) who reports to the Head of Daimler Trucks, Wolfgang Bernhard (a German in Germany on the board of Daimler AG).

Those vans and trucks are Mercedes trucks. As are Mitsubishi Fuso, Bharat-Benz and a host of other truck brands under the Daimler umbrella.

The main reason Daimler doesn't partner with other small car companies is because of the Chrysler fiasco. That was a massive failure on Daimler's side and they are not keen to repeat it.

Funny that you mention Renault-Nissan. Here is a nice screenie that I just took.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Party-vi 03/12/2014 at 17:34

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Well, this map says that Italy is a lot closer to Germany than America was(if the WW2 didn't think that Germans and Austrians are different enough to need a separate border, Germany would share a border with Italy), Lancia is also smaller than Chrysler, two reasons why it would be easier to control, and they already have an Advanced Design Studio, in Italy, they can rebuild Lancia, around that.

LuczOr > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 17:38

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This is pretty accurate. We still talk about the merger and the resulting split. The main regret I hear mentioned within the company is that we didn't send enough of our high level executives out there to direct the company. In a bizarre twist, Daimler ended up making some money on the deal as they were awarded most of the DaimlerChrysler cash balance in the split.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > LuczOr 03/12/2014 at 17:52

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They should rename the trucks and buses they produce, Actros. Sounds good, and they sold like a ton of them. Designing a rugged logo would be 5 minutes job for the many designers they have.

As for vans, they could put the Smart badge on them, once that brand goes mainstream with cars, I can already see some annoying Drive Smart\Work Smart\Win Smart ads, for Smart vans.

Klaus Schmoll > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 18:12

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"Now, another struggling brand is Lancia, reduced to one model and sold only in Italy? For a brand with the history of Lancia, that is worse than death."

Errrrm, nope. This is their current line-up for Germany, and last time I checked we haven't been invaded by the Italians. I also count more than one car there.

Well most of it is dated ChryCo crap, I have to give you that. That, and the fact that I haven't seen a recent Fiat-Lancia (apart from the 300/Thema which isn't a real Lancia) in a while.

oldirtybootz > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 18:14

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I supose that's an exaggeration anyway, I'd touch the shit out of an SLS or CLS.

Klaus Schmoll > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/12/2014 at 18:21

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"Seriously, Mercedes has been in existence for over 100 years, yet they don't own any brand, instead of their Mercedes and the tiny Smart brand."

Aaaah, sorry again! But your post made me get into a fact checking mood.

- Did you know that they own Freightliner?

- And almost 90 percent of Mitsubishi-Fuso?

- Setra

- etc......

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Klaus Schmoll 03/12/2014 at 18:42

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Yes, but leaked information about FCA's short to mid business plan, that they will be detailing in May, talks about Lancia selling only the Ypsilon and only in Italy, for the near future, at least. And this was clear at the Geneva motor show. I don't even know if Lancia had a stand there, as no news about it reached the internet. If the rebadged Chrysler s strategy was still used, we would've seen a Lancia badged version of the new 200, at the show. But that didn't happened.

With Daimler ownership, things could quickly change. Using existing Mercedes platforms and technology, would allow Lancia to quickly put itself back on its feet, as the Lancia's own Centro Stile can put out designs for those cars, with relative ease.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Klaus Schmoll 03/12/2014 at 18:54

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I meant car brands. I knew about Freightliner.

I've heard about Mitsubishi wanting to buy the Fuso stock back(I presumed they did it, by now) and I had no idea they own Setra.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 03/17/2014 at 11:16

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You are right actually. Mercedes can't keep up in cost saving with Audi and BMW. Audi recycles VW tech (which is why I refer to every Audi as a Golf) and therefore has huge profits, BMW cheapened out by using the same technology through out the whole line up - they are producing the 3, 5, and 7 series on the same line, and the production of a 5er costs only a tiny bit more than a 3er.

So what they need is another platform to sell their tech and to profit from higher buy in margins and economy of scales. Alfa Romeo and Lancia would be perfect, and I bet that Fiat would be okay to part with both brands if Zetsche offers a price good enough - hell, i bet they would get Lancia for free if they buy Alfa.

But the Mercedes Vans and Trucks branch is well successful and historically rooted within the whole company - I don't see anything wrong with it.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 03/17/2014 at 16:19

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Nothing wrong with vans and trucks, not having the 3 pointed star badge on them, would be good for marketing.

Lancia. Marchionne would sell that, because it is almost dead, already.

Alfa Romeo, not in a million years, or if he does sell it, it would sell it for a price so high, nobody would want to pay it.

Pontiac would be a nice brand to grab, something tells me that Dr Z is ready for another American adventure.

Or even Mazda, small and clever automaker, is a good addition to any auto group.