My Dad is Stuck in the Past. (Somewhat of a rant)

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
03/04/2014 at 18:03 • Filed to: None

Earlier today I showed my dad the new Jeep Renegade. He actually liked the thing, shockingly, as he usually hates small hatchbacks. He only had one complaint though, and that was the engine. "1.4 liters is too small, even 2.4 is too small." he said. He's stuck in the mentality of no replacement for displacement when it comes to engines. Just like every American automaker thought in the 60s and 70s, nothing beats a big engine. He thinks that 160 or even 184 horsepower isn't enough. "A 3.0 liter V6 with about 220 horsepower would be perfect." I could agree with the power output, but a 3 liter V6? Talk about some added weight to the front end. A turbo on the 2.4 would be good enough I think. I've tried many times to tell him that not everything needs a lot of power or a big engine but he refuses to listen. Stubborn old man.

DISCUSSION (35)

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:05

I agree with you

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:06

I'm from California, the land of everyone driving Priuses.

I occasionally have those moments where I tell my parents that we should get a hybrid to save money on their commutes, but my dad was like, unless everyone drives a Prius and at the same speed, he doesn't want one because he doesn't want to be passed by someone while he was driving a Prius.

Which is why our household has 2 V8s LOL.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:06

a v6 putting out less that 275 is out dated.

CPT Speedbump > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:06

V6?...when it comes to Jeeps, you want a nice torquey inline 6

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:07

A 220hp 3.0? I have a Taurus for your father. It's from the 90s...

Joe_Limon > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:07

Generally speaking, turbo/rad systems weigh more then bumps in block size. Unless of course the engine is massively boosted... In such cases the naturally aspirated engine is generally more fuel efficient.

Also, low end torque is really valued for this niche of vehicle so revving the balls out of the engine isn't favorable.

camaroboy68ss > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:08

It's the only way if you want to stay away from forced induction. I freaking hate turbos, so either a supercharger or a bigger motor is left, and its a mopar product lefts shove a real hemi in it.

For Sweden > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:09

There is no replacement for displacement. Forced induction comes close, but it's not the same.

RazoE > camaroboy68ss
03/04/2014 at 18:10

You hate turbos? Huh? Wh...why..?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
03/04/2014 at 18:11

He still thinks that the 200 hp the 4.3 puts out in our safari is good... that should tell you something.

Textured Soy Protein > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:12

In 2014, a 3.0 liter V6 making only 220 hp would be woefully outdated. Or available in a Mitsubishi Outlander.

That said, the Renegade isn't going to be super light weight. I looked up some numbers. The 500L with which it shares a platform weighs 3200 lbs. Also the awd versions of the Cherokee are about 200 lbs heavier than the fwd versions. That tells me the Renegade will be in the 3200 - 3400 lbs range.

160 to 184 hp in a 3200 to 3400 lbs car isn't exactly quick. But it is competitive with the likes of the CR-V, RAV4, etc.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
03/04/2014 at 18:12

Nothing smaller than a V6 in our garage, and when my mom gets her CTS-V in a few years, nothing but V8s.

camaroboy68ss > RazoE
03/04/2014 at 18:13

Main reason is the sound, plus I don't like the freaking duct work under the hood makes a mess. I like classic roots blowers but ever since I was a kid I have hated turbos.

CPT Speedbump > RazoE
03/04/2014 at 18:13

I like turbo's, but also dislike them in a way..boost lag, not the best at trekking through water, easily over heat

feather-throttle-not-hair > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:14

Meh. i like turbos when they're on sports cars, but they're generally inferior in terms of power delivery and low end torque when compared to NA engines making similar HP. The advantage of course is that they're more fuel efficient, but in terms of driving dynamics NA is just better (generally speaking.)

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:15

I mean... I don't even have anything funny to say to that.

M54B30 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:16

I'm young (27) and I'm still trying to adjust from 4.0 V6s with 200 hp to nowadays a 2.0 with 300 hp or so. Has there been long term durability testing of these micro engines that are working so hard in big cars?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > camaroboy68ss
03/04/2014 at 18:17

There's always revs. My 2.0 has 197hp. Doesn't have a whole lot of torque, but man is it fun to drive!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
03/04/2014 at 18:22

It's frustrating sometimes hearing some of the things he thinks are acceptable. That is one of them.

camaroboy68ss > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
03/04/2014 at 18:22

That's great, I think my big thing is I have grown up in big hp NA V8s so every little car I get in feels slow. My sisters non S Mini handles great but very lack luster in acceleration, rode in a S mini still felt slow.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:24

oh wow, and he thinks 170-185 wouldn't be enough in a small suv/hatchback thingy.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 18:25

Just for reference I have 197hp in my 2.0. No turbo. Tell him that and watch his head explode haha.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > camaroboy68ss
03/04/2014 at 18:26

YOU DON"T LIKE THE SOUND OF A TURBOCHARGER???

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/292079…

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > camaroboy68ss
03/04/2014 at 18:26

There's 2 saving graces to my car: the light weight (it's basically a 160hp car under 5500rpms, still good) and the high cam. If you can wait for the crossover, you're in for a wild ride.

RazoE > CPT Speedbump
03/04/2014 at 18:27

If you have a big enough engine and proper-sized turbo, there is no lag.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Textured Soy Protein
03/04/2014 at 18:27

Or available in a Mitsubishi Outlander.

a left over from 2011 that is still on the lot.

CPT Speedbump > RazoE
03/04/2014 at 18:29

I've never heard of a car with 0 lag, lol

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > CPT Speedbump
03/04/2014 at 18:29

on baby the 4.0 has such a great sound. The new 3.6l Pentastar engine may have more power, but it's got no soul.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > For Sweden
03/04/2014 at 18:30

but what about small high revving engines?

For Sweden > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
03/04/2014 at 18:32

Better to have a high-revving V8.

Kinja'd!!!

Straightsix9904 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 19:14

If he gets that engine...he will be pissed when he sees other cars getting 35 MPGs and his V6 only manages 23

Slave2anMG > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 19:26

I've been riding all day in Puerto Rico a Prius that belongs to a salesman I work with. It's been like sitting in a goddamned blender working on two cups of walnuts and corn syrup. It just drones and drones and drones and drones...and doesn't go any faster. Give me some cubic inches PLEASE....

Axial > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 20:00

Displacement a big engine does not make.

Those DOHC four-point-whatever engines in German and Italian cars are bigger and heavier than a 6.2L LS3. Don't return fuel economy that's any better, either, and in the Italian's case it's actually in the pits.

I wouldn't buy a turbo-charged 4-cylinder either. I dislike 4-cylinder engines. They are rough, always sound strained regardless of how powerful they are, usually mounted sideways and in cars driving the wrong set of wheels, and immediately and completely sap all of the allure out of any performance car previously equipped with something that had more pots.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/04/2014 at 21:29

I know that is not the case in the US, but, living in Brazil, I'd very much rather have more displacement than advanced technology to increase my power output. Brazil is also stuck in the past, and high tech tend not to last very long in our crappy roads, running on our crappy fuel and having to cope with our crappy improvised repairs.

Case in point; DOHC engines. Back in the 90's, when the first ones started showing up in Brazil, they became famous for being unreliable (blame the owners' lack of attention to maintenance) and automakers stopped advertising them. Most people still assume DOHC engines just kind of went away.

Philbert/Phartnagle > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/06/2014 at 00:02

That's disrespectful, now go to your room!