Thoughts?

"YSI-what can brown do for you" (ysi-what-can-brown-do-for-you) 02/25/2014 at 18:47 • Filed to: None

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So I have been thinking about wheels for a long time. I have decided on a 17x9 wheel with a 42mm offset. Great but I want to dail some front camber in. Problem is, it has like 3mm of clearance with 0 degrees of camber. Luckily it doesn't rub.

A nice solution would be to add a 5mm spacer(if they make smaller ones I am in luck!). Which would give me enough room for camber adjustment. So are there any downsides to getting spacers? Should I add the same spacer to all 4 corners as well, or would the fronts suffice?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 18:50

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Maybe don't dial in camber and trust the original engineers?

N/A POWAAAHH > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 18:50

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I've read that they add additional load to CV joints, but I'm not sure if they were referring to the plate style you have pictured or the bolt ons.

rad_mike > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 18:55

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I've been running H&R 5 mm spacers on my rears only for quite some time now, and that includes a few track days. Wheels haven't fallen off yet! I think the key is to make sure you're lug bolts are long enough after the spacing...or if you have studs, no worries.

Clown Shoe Pilot > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 19:02

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I'm not familiar w/ the suspension geometry on your car, but on my BMW the strut and wheel hub move as a unit. I can't just lean the hub over, I have camber plates at the top of the strut towers. I have to lean the whole assembly over. When more negative camber goes into the wheel, the strut moves away from its original position too.

Paul, Man of Mustangs > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 19:03

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You should be fine with just 5mm spacers in the front. There may be some noticeable wandering in the steering, and your bearing life might be reduced slightly, but 5mm is pretty safe. Also, by making the front track width slightly wider than the rear, you'll gain some responsiveness. Not much, and probably not super noticeable, but some.

D > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 19:12

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You realize OE alignments are set up for safety and not to tap the car's full performance potential?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 19:15

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Unless you want uneven tire wear. I can tell you this, 0 degrees of camber ate the edges of my last tire. If you plan for any sort of performance driving camber adjustment is a great idea. It is cheap and effective. It doesn't eat through tires if you do a mild amount either. Now toe on the other hand.

YSI-what can brown do for you > D 02/25/2014 at 19:15

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This guy knows.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 19:16

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What were you doing and how were you driving?

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 19:21

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Make sure your lug nuts have full engagement. It's a good idea to get some open face lug nuts when you do something like this.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 19:24

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Autocrossing like twice a month on all seasons. I didn't have proper pressure in the tires for the first 4 and they rolled a lot.

YSI-what can brown do for you > N/A POWAAAHH 02/25/2014 at 19:27

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I have heard this too, but wouldn't adding spacers be like running a lower offset wheel?

puddler > N/A POWAAAHH 02/25/2014 at 19:28

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they add load to the wheelbearings. toyota already has a horrible track record with wheel bearings and seals. i'm always a fan of fatter tires. google shows your car has struts. methinks lower control arm adjustment/upper camber plates shouldn't make you rub the strut... nothing a hammer & sawzall couldn't fix anyway.

adding camber blurs the line at the limit. things will sowly get out of hand. i prefer a hard edge i can ride until things get way wrong, way fast. to each his own.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 19:32

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So, was it the pressure or the camber?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 19:35

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It was both. There is only so much pressure you can add into the car where you start losing grip even though the sidewall is super stiff.

puddler > puddler 02/25/2014 at 19:42

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after looking at a better pic it doesn't seem like there is any adjustment in the LCA. so, maybe you do have to crook the wheel against the strut...i dunno.

N/A POWAAAHH > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 19:42

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well no, because the weight of the wheel and car are pushed out further on the studs, where as a lower offset wheel would have the same point of force application

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 19:49

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How much camber do you want? Have you done the trig to figure out how much space or are you eyeballing it? And have you done your load analysis? And don't forget about the fully compressed height of the suspension.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 20:01

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Well I want 2 degrees of camber. I really wanted a 35mm offset wheel cause that would clear the suspension on full lock and when it is compressed. My friend runs 3 degrees on this car with stock suspension with a 17x9. He is also lowered and has no problems at any of the autocross sessions or track days he has been too. Haven't done a load analysis but my nuts have.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 20:03

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So why not get a 35mm offset wheel?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 20:22

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I can get a but that would be 500 dollars more than going with a 42mm since the company makes very few wheels in that offset. I could get a 30mm offset but that will poke out of the fenders a bit too much.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 20:29

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Gotcha, now go do a full stress and load analysis of having the axle extended by 5 mm.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 20:46

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Haha, let me get on that. I am sure it can't be too much of a difference, then again I have done any research on spacers cause I wasn't planning on using them. I thought the 42mm offset would be enough but alas.

YSI-what can brown do for you > puddler 02/25/2014 at 20:50

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I am getting a set of nice wheels if the finances fall into place, so the camber and wheels and tires should all come together. Sadly, LCA are not adjustable in any way like you said. To adjust the rears you have two options. Lower the car an inch or so to give 1.2 degrees of camber at the rear, or get 500 dollar LCA to get it to 1.5 or whatever you need.

I could use top mounts to adjust camber but those are pretty expensive, and they do add a bit of harshness to the ride. On the other hand they won't cause the terrible wheel bearing to wear prematurely. Not to mention that they are perfect for the amount of camber I need!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 20:51

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Do they make camber adjustment kits for your car? What do the manufactures of the kits recommend? And 2 degrees is the norm for drift cars.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/25/2014 at 21:01

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A lot of track cars run -2 degrees. The front is MacPherson strut so you need to add more camber than a double wishbone set up. The rears only have to be -1 to -1.5 degrees because they are double wishbones. Normally people autocrossing or tracking the car give it closer to -3 degrees but that seems like a bit much to me.

I might go somewhere in between a street set up and a track set up with -1.5 up front and -1 degree in the rear. Won't be as awesome at autocross but it will save the tires a bit.

I could get top mounts. It would seem to be a good idea. Usually the max amount of camber is -2 from those, which is perfectly fine for me. Plus I wouldn't have to add a spacer and risk destroying my bearings prematurely. The camber kits for my car are a bolt up front and lower control arms in the rear.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 21:05

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You figured it out in your final paragraph there.

 > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/25/2014 at 21:26

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One downside with those spacers is that you reduce the length of your wheel studs. Add a 5 mm spacer and you wheel studs are now shorter by 5 mm. Are they still long enough to hold your wheels in place without snapping off? Who knows but are you willing to take a chance and risk losing a wheel? I suppose if you replaced your wheel studs with longer ones made from better steel it could work. I think ARP makes some hardened ones.

I would rather use bolt on spacers but those have their own set of downsides as well.