Insulting an E46 on Oppo is apparently like...

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura) 02/20/2014 at 21:48 • Filed to: None

4

100

... Saying women should marry young and only sleep with one guy on Jezebel. Declaring yourself a Christian on i09. Or saying you like Hondas on the front page.

Brian Silvestro > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 21:49

4

The E46 is the worst 3 series in my opinion. It's pretty bad looking if I'm honest.

MtrRider > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 21:49

1

What's wrong with Hondas!?!?

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 21:50

2

Agreed. I'd say that on handsomeness the e36 is worse, but it's got more of a purposeful and less of a "look at how handsome I am!" look.

Übel > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 21:52

8

You sure like to complain about people not sharing your opinions.

Skif6996 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 21:53

1

Yeah I got that impression reading your last post. If that is what your buddy wants, that's fine. I didn't get the feeling you were totally bashing him or the car though. Some of the replies you got seemed a little extreme to me.

Manuél Ferrari > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 21:53

2

Um this is kind of hypocritical of you. I've seen you post about how it's not cool that people insult Japanese cars.

You shouldn't "insult" any cars. Everyone is free to have their opinions. It's fine to say you don't care for a car or list the problems it has. But why would you insult it knowing that a ton of people on Oppo have E46 bimmers and love their cars?

The golden rule of Oppo is for us all to be respectful of each other. Even if I don't care for a car I try not to insult it.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 02/20/2014 at 21:54

3

"I'd say that on handsomeness the e36 is worse,"
_

mr. idk > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 21:54

2

I found out the hard way that saying that you're a Christian on i09 is literally the WORST thing you can do. Commenters on i09 are the atheist equivalent to Westboro Baptist Church members, and that isnt even a slight exaggeration

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 21:55

2

This Laguna Seca Blue E46 would like to have a word with you Mr Silvestro

Übel > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 21:56

1

Huh.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 21:56

0

I actually said I advised my buddy against buying one, and that he was going to buy one anyway. Because the high cost of ownership will kill him. I never insulted the car itself. But it's cool that the whole site can thrash my taste in cars and I should be nice because of how many people have VANOS KICKIN IN YO!

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 21:57

0

It's not like it's really bad looking...(ok maybe it is) it's just that every other M3 looks so much better. E90s are my favorite.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > mr. idk 02/20/2014 at 21:57

1

That was my welcoming party there as well. I became the most posted in one of the articles because of how's my people lined up to insult me. Then I got so many and was labeled "trolling" to the point that I grayed out again lol

Übel > MtrRider 02/20/2014 at 22:00

2

They're better with patina. DRY ROT MAKES EVERYTHING BETTER. #shamelessselfpromotion

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Übel 02/20/2014 at 22:00

0

Because I have unpopular opinions shared by less people, so I'm expected to mind my mouth while other people go o town on me.

hethoughtofcars > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:00

0

Did you delete the original post?

Manuél Ferrari > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:01

0

That is totally fine to advise a buddy against buying one if he can't afford to maintain it. I see no problem with that whatsoever.

I'm just going off what you said in this post. The title said "Insulting", which sounds a lot different than what you just said.

Cynical > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:02

0

The e46 is God's other chariot, after the e30. Don't you know not to blaspheme in this house?

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:02

0

Funny cause most people think the E46 M3 Coupe looks better than the E92 M3 Coupe. But you're allowed to go against the grain. Just thought Laguna Seca Blue would sway you since you are a big aficionado of non-metallic blues as well :)

hethoughtofcars > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:03

0

Strange, it's a pretty conservative design to have too strong of feelings either way, in my opinion. This isn't a Nissan Juke. But yeah, the later e90s were gorgeous cars.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:05

2

The blue is very nice for sure, until I see this picture:

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > hethoughtofcars 02/20/2014 at 22:06

0

Yep. I got tired of people kicking the shit out of me for offending them. Even though I didn't say anything directly about the car or anyone on here who own them.

Brian Silvestro > hethoughtofcars 02/20/2014 at 22:06

1

The later ones are much better than the pre-facelift models that's for sure.

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/20/2014 at 22:07

0

I'm still saying I like it better. I'd say the e46 is more handsome, but only because it's tryharding.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:08

1

I'll see your E90 and raise the bet to an E92 Santorini Blue with the carbon fiber roof:

Übel > hethoughtofcars 02/20/2014 at 22:08

0

Here it is if you missed it.

Super Nintendo Chalmers > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/20/2014 at 22:08

0

A lot of it (in my opinion) tends to rest on what type of bumper the car has. Same could be said for the E30 as well as the E46. If it doesn't have the ZHP / M3 M sport bumper it does look dated, doesn't it?

Tom McParland > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:08

0

I tried to look back at the original post to see if anyone said anything really out of line, but it seems you took it down. Which is fine. I don't really think you were "insulting" the E46 but I think some folks could have interpreted your "tone" as dismissive.

Think about it this way...
"A friend of mine just got an Integra GSR. We tried to talk him out of it, but we got this Acura guy in our group who thinks every time a VTEC kicks in you get a boner..."

I'm not serious just trying to convey perception.

Look we all have our "things" I love wagons, you are into Hondas. But in don't take it personally when someone doesn't like wagons. It's just not their thing. Please don't take this whole response the wrong way but you seem like a cool dude and I would like you to have positive experiences on Oppo not negative ones.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:09

0

I actually didn't insult the car in the original post either (shoulda kept it for reference, but people were gettin all bent outta shape). But I did say that I advise him against getting the car and it was potentially a very trying ownership experience.

The BMW guy in our group has spent 10k almost on his 5 series in the past year, and still convinced this guy to get the car and that they were reliable. That juxtaposition and the fact that it still worked is just baffling to me.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:09

1

You're just helping my point! Look at it! Sexy as hell!

AM3R > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:09

2

E46 M3: great
E46 ZHP sedan: great
E46 base 323i in silver on gray leatherette (aka the sweet 16 present for your daughter): not great.

It sucks that this is the only model I find on craigslist haha.

Opinions are like armpits, everyone has them, and everyone else's stink.

Your boy, BJR > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 22:09

2

WHAT SAY YOU, MY SON? FOR LET IT BE KNOWN- ON THE 8TH DAY, I CREATED THE NEW CLASS- E21 AND UP WERE MERELY BLASPHEMOUS ATTEMPTS AT THE GREATNESS AND SIMPLICITY THAT IS THE E10, MY ONE TRUE SON, MY ONE TRUE CHARIOT!

-Book of Oppo, 4:10

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 22:10

0

God drives a Chevy Impala with white walls. You hush your mouth.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:10

0

I realized that too, haha. I had never seen this blue until now. It's a custom order color. Seeing this pic makes me think the E92 M3 is the best looking. I need to find the owner of this car and trade him both my bimmers for it.

hethoughtofcars > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:12

1

Well I'm sorry you thought you were getting hammered, but the e46 is pretty well revered amongst BMW fanatics. I owned one (not a ZHP, just a base 2000 323i coupe), and you're right, it had issues, almost all electrical. I saw more random warning lights on the dash than I thought possible. It only stranded me once though and that was due to a flat tire (after which I promptly got to discover that the spare was also flat!) but that's obviously not the car's fault.

Here would be my unsolicited advice: being young is the best time in the world to make mistakes of pretty much any kind, except having kids and getting married (wait on those, trust me). Maybe he goes into debt on this car and gets upside down or something truly costly needs repair or replacement. I'm not sure, because I didn't see that you revealed anything besides the type of 3-Series and the package it comes with. I have no clue how many miles it has, what kind of condition it's in, what he's paying, or even what year (although I think ZHP was offered 2004-2006). There are a few issues with the earlier e46 like the sub-frame issue I mentioned, and for some reason BMW can't engineer a power window motor to save their lives, but most of that was ironed out by then. I'm not sure where this dislike of BMWs comes from (and of course, everyone is entitled to like what they like), but as far as people like me who love them slightly irrationally, the E46 ZHP is pretty close to as good as BMW has ever been. So let your friend have his adventure, and maybe he'll hate it and end up an Acura guy like you. I have no idea, but if you get a chance to drive it, jump on it and see if you can't figure out why all these Jalopniks are singing its praises! :)

Manuél Ferrari > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:12

1

It's a very valid point that people who buy used bimmers should both love them and be able to afford the maintenance. It doesn't seem like you were insulting anyone in that post. Maybe you should change the title of this post to "Recommending against an E46 on Oppo is apparently like..."

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:12

0

I don't know why, I just like the sedan a whole lot more. It's the same amount of car, you're just trading the carbon roof for two more doors. More Practicality, yay!

awe46m3zcp > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 22:13

1

I was just about to say the same thing!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Tom McParland 02/20/2014 at 22:14

0

I don't hate the car. But the fact that the BMW guy in our group that convinced him to get one has put nearly 10k into keeping his 5 on the road pretty much activated the papa bear in me. I don't want to see this other guy, who's one of my best friends, in the same place.

And I took it down because the last couple responses were really out of line. Instead of going back at these people, I decided to shut it down.

I really used to enjoy Oppo. We really had some cool things here. People really aren't the same anymore here. I'm dealing, but I will openly admit it's not the same. People like you keep me coming back though.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:15

0

Oh I agree the sedan is more practical, that's why I got it. But I still gusta the looks of the coupe more.

Check out Atlantis Blue (maybe the same color as the car you posted?):

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Super Nintendo Chalmers 02/20/2014 at 22:16

0

No.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:17

1

Interlagos Blue:

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:17

0

Yeah I think it is! That's another custom order one I'm pretty sure. I'd get a sedan in that color.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:18

0

Frozen Blue:

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:19

1

I'm having some sort of seizure

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > hethoughtofcars 02/20/2014 at 22:19

0

I'm married at 24. If I had the money, I'd have a house and kids too. And my Si has a better transmission, better handling, and just as fast as most of the BMWs on the road in NOVA. I just don't know why I would want a car that would give me more problems just to have wood on the dash and a fancy badge.

Not being offensive, just saying. I ONLY have a Honda, but at the end of the day it outperforms over half the badge queens out there. :\

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:19

0

I should have posted this one first. Same Laguna Seca Blue as the E46 I posted, but on the E92

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:20

0

It's hard to tell. It looks more green in the pic you posted

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:21

1

so many awesome blues!

another law i would pass if i was obama - 25% of all new cars on dealer lots MUST be in some shade of blue. no exceptions!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:21

1

I didn't insult it. But apparently to all of the BMW fans and owners, what I said sounded like "I want to find them all ad burn them to the ground"

awe46m3zcp > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:21

2

You might as well of said Miatas are horrible. The E46 is a fantastic car. Sure the rear subframes tear, Vanos bolts sheer, and the Vanos hub tabs break off. The rest of the time it's pure bliss!

Edit: I forgot about SMG pumps_
*2nd Edit: I also forgot about the leaky rear view mirrors".

Übel > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:22

3

Nobody is out to get you. If you provide a well-informed, well thought out opinion, nobody is going to be bothered. However, when you make a poorly informed post with unsubstantiated claims talking down on a very popular car, you should expect some backlash. Deleting the post and making another whining about how mean we are for disagreeing isn't doing you any favors, either. However, if you handle yourself like an adult, you will be treated like one.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:22

1

I have another picture of that car on my computer! So nice

Tom McParland > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:24

0

Hey I never read it like you hated the car....just trying to point out how others could read it. And yeah all communities have different personalities and ups and downs. You just gotta focus on the good stuff.

Manuél Ferrari > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:25

1

People need to stop being so sensitive.

I know what common flaws my bimmers have. And i'm happy to point out flaws I've seen that people don't often talk about.

What would have been insulting is if you had said "The E46 sucks and nobody should ever buy one, even if they have the money or mechanical skills to maintain it". That is a lot different than saying you told a friend who can't afford it not to buy one.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Übel 02/20/2014 at 22:25

0

No matter what I say it's never enough for you. And that's fine. I've come to expect you always finding my posts and pointing out how I went about having and sharing that opinion wrongly.

I can feel the tension between us. It's electric. What do you say we move to Vermont and make this thing legal ;)

hethoughtofcars > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:26

1

Yeah, I don't like wood on the dash (my 2000 didn't have it!) and honestly I really wish BMW wasn't the company that made the E46 because people make assumptions about you buying a car just for the badge.

Sounds like you know what you're doing. Good luck and have fun being young!

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:27

0

ok now i'm having the seizure

seriously WTF is wrong with me???

how did i buy not one but TWO different M3s and not get at least ONE of them in blue?

oh yeah i know why - i'm impatient and didn't hold out until i saw a used car in the right color at the right price

ugh being impatient is so stupid. i have no problem being patient with projects at work or when working on business deals but i have zero patience when it comes to cars and girls.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Tom McParland 02/20/2014 at 22:27

0

It's funny because if someone had made a post like that but the car was an Si like mine, you'd be surprised how many people woulda supported the poster. But because I was advising against a BMW, E46 specifically, I was a shitty person and friend.

Super Nintendo Chalmers > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/20/2014 at 22:32

0

My trusty disciple chimes in.

Übel > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:33

0

Me finding your posts might have something to do with them being on the front page of Oppo. You not having enough proof for me might have something to do with you having no proof.

Sorry, I'm not interested in marrying a child.

avens > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:35

0

Has anyone driven a bad BMW, condition being that it isn't of the cheapest of the bunch?

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:36

1

Same problem here! I can take as much time as I want when it comes to important stuff, but when it comes to pleasure I can't wait.

I really need a car soon, I've gone into withdrawal.

Tom McParland > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:41

1

I hear ya man...and maybe you are right and just have to mind the audience

Victorious Secret > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 22:42

4

As I saw it, you didn't insult ANYTHING and anyone who is getting their knickers in a twist needs to untwist the knickers and actually look at that post with context.

I got it 100%. You were hesitant on recommended a E46 because of the repair costs that DO occur on German cars, especially E46s. That is fair. You wanted your friend to be completely aware of what he was getting into instead of just being in the honeymoon phase.

All valid points. The post was a fair one. End of story.

Jesus, what the hell happened there. Maybe if we had a "You don't get to comment on this post till you've read it and waited 5 minutes" timer we could avoid jumping the gun and missing the points of posts.

Shit, we have a responsibility to steer the conversations towards greener pastures, not create micro-dramas on a daily basis.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:45

0

haha we both need to go to a buddhist retreat and learn to be patient in our personal lives

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:46

0

Not worth it! You should get a Rapide. They're pretty cheap used.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > avens 02/20/2014 at 22:47

0

Every one I've ever been in has made bad sounds in its under sides. And it's not been an experience worth the headaches those issues would cause. And that includes an E90 328i and an E46 M3.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/20/2014 at 22:49

0

every time i get close to reigning my addiction in you give me a new idea that fires it up!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Victorious Secret 02/20/2014 at 22:51

0

BMW appologists are worse than Honda appologists. Because they're militant. Piss em off too much and they take Poland...

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 22:54

1

I'll take it as a compliment, you're welcome!

Dr Emilio Lizardo > mr. idk 02/20/2014 at 23:02

21

It's OK to say you are christian on io9. It is not OK to say that you believe in creationism or that ID should have equal footing with evolution or any variation on that theme. That will buy trouble.

mr. idk > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/20/2014 at 23:08

0

Yeah there only good for their movie reviews, other than that, i09 is worthless garbage

mr. idk > Dr Emilio Lizardo 02/20/2014 at 23:18

0

i dont believe in evolution or "7-day creationism", but what absolutely KILLS me is that they treat evolution as proven fact, when it is still a theory, and that they treat theists as if they are (excuse my language) retarded, when the truth is that science cannot disprove that God exists, and science has yet to prove evolution as fact. In other words, they think Christians are insane because they dont believe in something (evolution/non-creation) that hasnt been unarguably proven. At the end of the day, the theory of evolution is still just that; a THEORY . How good a theory or bad a theory it is can be debated, but i think its wrong to treat someone like there an idiot if they dont believe in something that has yet to be proven.

Arthur Salvadoor > mr. idk 02/20/2014 at 23:29

14

Your thinking of a "Hypothesis", not a "Theory", a common misconception.

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment . Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact."

Balmut > Arthur Salvadoor 02/20/2014 at 23:29

6

Came here to say just that...

NULL789 > mr. idk 02/20/2014 at 23:34

11

This is the kind of nonsense that will get a lot of us on io9 on you. Its cool if you are Christian on io9, however when you are so freaking anti-science for no other reason because faith then you are asking for trouble.

Also I didn't know we commenters on io9 have started picketing people telling them they are going to die and go into a black hole of nothing.

Celia the Vampire Slaying Vampire > mr. idk 02/20/2014 at 23:51

10

Now that scientific theory has been better addressed, an easy way to remember this is that gravity also goes by the "theory of gravity." We still don't understand everything about evolution, but we can observe and demonstrate it repeatedly via experimentation. Evolution is fact.

People of all faiths are welcome on io9 so long as they are not anti-science. I'm Jewish but I believe in observable, repeatable facts as far as my science goes. The existence of evolution is not genuinely up for debate. Evolution exists and is demonstrated all the time, constantly.

Smeagol > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/21/2014 at 00:01

9

I have declared myself a Christian multiple times on io9 and, if I do say so myself, I'm kind of a big deal over there.

But way to make blanket statements.

mr. idk > Arthur Salvadoor 02/21/2014 at 00:15

0

If its so "solid" then why don't many in the science/scientific community, including many science teachers not believe in evolution?

mr. idk > Celia the Vampire Slaying Vampire 02/21/2014 at 00:18

0

By evolution, i really meant the debate on whether life was created or not. Science hasnt proved that life wasnt created.

Darklighter > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 00:28

11

There's no biologist in the world today who doesn't believe in evolution. It's one of the foundational principles of of modern biology.

mr. idk > NULL789 02/21/2014 at 00:31

0

So apparently someone who doesnt believe in evolution is now automatically "anti-science"? And claiming that faith is a not firm grounds for beliefs? THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT. And as far as me likening you i09 commenters to Westboro members, both groups express a similar hate-fueled, and blind rage against people with different beliefs than your own, and are quick to throw degrading/demeaning labels on people who disagree with your specific point of view, and wont even bother to discuss matters an orderly fashion

Darklighter > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 00:35

6

You're basically trying to argue that water is dry, or that the earth is flat.

mr. idk > Darklighter 02/21/2014 at 00:37

0

I doubt that that is true, simply because i know quite a few personally who don't believe in evolution

Arthur Salvadoor > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 00:41

7

Please cite your sources for this claim. As well as what you mean by "Many".
For reference my quote/definition comes from the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

(Please don't use anecdotal evidence)

mr. idk > Darklighter 02/21/2014 at 00:41

1

In what way? You do know that the Earth being round/was recorded in the bible centuries before science viewed it as a fact, right? Most Christians believe that the is round/spherical, i can assure you. Water on the other hand? THERE IS NO WAY THAT THAT STUFF IS WET THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS CRAZY INFORMATION FROM

NULL789 > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 00:43

8

So far none of us Niners have thrown degrading/demeaning labels at you so you are either projecting, or not articulating your point very well.

Faith and beliefs are fine, but they have nothing to do with science. Science is science, it does not require your belied for it to still be science. The theory of gravity is still going to be there in the morning whether you believe it in or not. I'm not suddenly going to float away into space because I don't believe in gravity.

And yes if you don't "believe" evolution is true, then you are anti-science, because it is one the most fundamental principles of science, particularly the life sciences.

mr. idk > Arthur Salvadoor 02/21/2014 at 00:46

0

Lol, do you want a list of my High School science teachers? Im not sure what youre looking for....but seeing that its almost 1am where i live, i am not gonna give you an MLA quote...?....

Arthur Salvadoor > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 00:53

7

That would be anecdotal, I'm asking for surveys or the like. Since a handful that you may know does not equate to "many in the science/scientific community" as you initially claimed.

mr. idk > NULL789 02/21/2014 at 00:56

0

Oh, ok so by your logic every science teacher, and every person who has a scientific job that doesnt believe in evolution should be fired. (i mean, who would sant a science teacher thats anti-science?) Regardless, My original point that i attempted to make clear stands: Science hasnt proved that life wasnt at all created, and science hasn't disproved that God exists Therefore, it is unfair to view someone as anti-science if they believe in God, and if they believe that life was created.

mr. idk > Arthur Salvadoor 02/21/2014 at 01:06

0

I could, but im not, since it does nothing to prove my original point; being that Science cannot disprove the existence of God, and cannot prove that life wasnt created, so therefore it is unfair to view people who believe in God, and people who believe that life was created as "scientifically illiterate"/anti-science/retarded...

NULL789 > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 01:11

7

Actually yes because if their stance on evolution is preventing them from doing their job of teaching the science that has been proven, they shouldn't be teaching science. Science has proven life wasn't created, it evolved. What you are talking about it multicellular life that is complex, which a lot of Christians point to as saying that only God could make beings so complex. I don't have a problem with people believing in any deity that they choose, what I do have a problem with is people using that belief to justify their anti-science stance. I know many scientists who still believe in God, yet can still point out that science is science.

Also science itself as an institution and tool doesn't have to prove or disprove that God exists, because science deals with the observable and testable. The existence of God is the realm of theology and philosophy. Now if there are scientists want to take the models of science and try to prove and disprove the existence of God that's fine, but that doesn't mean the failure or success of that endeavor should invalidate years and years of systematic collection of knowledge through observation and experimentation.

mr. idk > Celia the Vampire Slaying Vampire 02/21/2014 at 01:14

0

If you dont understand everything a theory that has been studied extensively and thoroughly for over 150 years, how can you be 100% sure its a fact? Tell me, is there at least .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance that it isnt fact?

Arthur Salvadoor > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 01:21

6

I believe you are thinking of a conversation you were having with someone else. I thought ours started with your post about Evolution being "just a theory" and my reply with the correct definition?

Regardless, even if science can not disprove the existence of god, religion can not prove it either.

AbraKaDaggers > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 01:22

9

What does one really have to do with the other though? Science isn't trying to prove or disprove that life was magically created out of thin air because it would be impossible to prove something like that whether it was true or not. We could never show evidence of it one way or the other. What we can show evidence for, and indeed have proven, is that one form of life can change into a new form of life over long periods of time. That is the Theory of Evolution. We can show that many species of dinosaurs eventually became what are now avians. That is a fact. We can show that primate species intelligence develops over time and they begin to use tools. It's happening among certain Gorilla species right now. Now what all this evidence together suggests is that it is very unlikely that we were instantaneously created exactly as we are today. Indeed, if we were, why do we have a tail bone? That is a clear vestige of a time when we actually were a species of primate that had tails.

So I guess I'm just saying I don't understand how people can ignore all the mountains of evidence. I don't begrudge you your religion by any means.

mr. idk > NULL789 02/21/2014 at 01:27

0

Call up Bill Nye, Lets get on this immediately! Btw, evolution is barely taught in high school, so clearly is not as crucial to one's being anti-science or pro-science. Science hasnt substantially proven that life itself wasnt created. They havent proved that the first cell wasnt created. They havent proved that the universe wasnt created. Personally, i dont see evolution as an undeniable fact, such as photosynthesis is.

mr. idk > AbraKaDaggers 02/21/2014 at 01:36

0

At least you understand what im saying! One of my points was that its unfair to view people who believe in God as "scientifically illiterate"/anti-science etc. Unlike you, many people dont realize that...

And there is evidence of intelligent design in many creatures, in just about every animal kingdom, along with things such as the fibonacci sequence that appears all over the universe, but thats an argument for another day....

mr. idk > Arthur Salvadoor 02/21/2014 at 01:39

0

Im having so many conversations at once, im trying hard to keep track lol. And You obviously haven't read a single verse the bible, or any religious text for that matter, if you are going to make a statement like that.

AbraKaDaggers > mr. idk 02/21/2014 at 01:51

3

Well thank you, I appreciate that. I try not to ever talk down to people and I will definitely agree with you that there is a certain crowd, especially amongst Atheists, that treat religious people as "stupid" or "crazy". Heck my best friend and my younger brother have a tendency to do that from time to time. That upsets me as well. Having disparate beliefs doesn't mean other people don't deserve respect, and I've gotten into arguments along that line time and time again with them.

That said, evolution is real. All the evidence supports it. If you want to believe that God created the very first cell that ultimately evolved what we are now, I won't argue that point because it's as good an answer as any. I don't believe it personally, but I have nothing to suggest that's not the case. But I just can't accept that man was created as a man, because there is far too much evidence to the contrary.

We won't get into Fibonacci and such because I feel that is a whole other can of worms. Lol