On differences in Culture, Car or Otherwise. Also a bit on Badge Snobbery.

"Robert Maxwell" (madmax13d) 02/15/2014 at 03:56 • Filed to: Japan, San Diego, Vintage Racing, Stance

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I've both at home (Cleveland, Chicago, and San Diego) and abroad (Yokosuka, Japan). The difference between groups of automotive enthusiasts is fairly striking. In Japan, the attitude is one of respect, where the heavily modified skyline or NSX will give the guy with the lightly tuned or modified civic or silvia respect. Even when I went to the touge, or Daikoku Futo on a Saturday night. Even though there was a mild bit of competition on the mountain, everybody respected everyone else' cars and driving skills.

This is in pretty stark contrast with three of the five major groups of car enthusiasts I've come across in the United States. These are respectively: European Car people, Import people, muscle car/domestic crowd, autocrossers/ track monkeys, and vintage car racers/ clubs. Of these groups, the most unique attitude is the autocrossers, who are indifferent about the type of car as long as it's capable of putting a decent time/training the driver. They just want to see sports cars driven in anger, and people to enjoy the act of driving. Muscle car guys are automatically suspicious of anything that has the engine in metric units. To me, this is the crowd that is populating the cruise night in the Midwestern United States and elsewhere. They're not a bad sort, and usually open to talk to people as long as you're complimentary of what they're driving.

Import tuners are funny to me, they seem to want praise for what they are driving, but are dismissive of praise or actual interest in their cars. My first car meet back in San Diego I brought my beater Miata to, a gentleman brought an NSX with a comptech super charger. Asking him about the intercooler installation for it. It's an air to water unit, and I complimented it on being a unique response to the challenge of getting cooling air in the cramped midship engine bay. His eyes proceeded to glaze over and he looked at me light I had grown a second head on my shoulders. Walking around, I felt the crowd was more into the pose then they were into cars or driving itself. They seemed to give a vibe that 5 years previously I had ascribed to Euro tuners. Rather then applauding unique engineering or a well built/functional car, it was all about how rare the part is, or how good the "stance" is on the car.

Again "JDM" styling clashes with the actual JDM cars I remember seeing. They're mostly lightly, discreetly modified to perform well in a chosen driving discipline. The drift cars that are used as normal drivers may have rough bodywork, but the only clue you'll normally see that a drifter is daily driving his drift car is that it's suspension is slightly lower and stiffer then a normal car. The concept of a "Missile" is repugnant to me. It shows a lack of pride in your vehicle, and more pride in your status as a drifter. The Hashiriya I know kept their cars immaculate, with only suspension and drivetrain tweaks, with possibly a light tune under the hood because they're more focused on learning how to drive.

Most Euro tuners, its all about the money and the badge. The less said about them, the better. Even less of them, outside the Porsche or M community, actually drive their cars.

Now the vintage racers are interesting to me.... They're like track monkeys, but with added twist of having historical appreciation added to the mix. A 240Z is as cool as an old lotus cotina, or some old Alfa Romeo. These are the most familiar group to me. High marks for them.

And this brings me to my last point. Badge Snobbery. It exists, and rears it's ugly head everytime a non European car is featured on this site. The three favorite whipping boy is the new Corvette, GT-R, and the new WRX. About the Corvette, it's always some niggle about how the interior is this, or the Chevy badge is not special enough. A sports cars rep should come from actual sporting driving, and let me put it this way. A corvette has been competitive in LMGTE1 or 2 class racing every year since it's introduction. If your deciding against it for any other reason then it's driving dynamic, then you don't love driving or cars, you love the status your car gives you.

Same thing goes with the GT-R, with the caveat that yes, it has gotten more expensive, but yes, it's a much faster car then when it was introduced. It's not a video game, and to be truly fast over anything that is not a racetrack, requires giant stainless steel balls. It's really a car that can push a driver. I've seen a R-32 struggle in a mountain pass, partially because it's the one environment it's electronics are diminished in. However, I've also seen a GT-R that was blindingly fast on mountain roads, because the driver was willing to adapt his driving technique to the car, and the road.

With the WRX, the styling criticism is justified. However, the critiques of the cost of the STI vs the Golf R is not. It's a second slower to 60, and the Golf R has a haldex AWD system VS a symmetrical system with active center differential and torque vectoring for the STI. Sure the interior quality isn't as nice, but the only thing that matters is the seat and steering wheel, and that's that. To me, it's just the perceived quality of the VW brand is higher, as is the perceived quality of any European brand vs any American/Asian brand. It often clouds people's judgment.

Desu-San-Desu > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 04:10

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So which crowd do I fall under, hmm?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 04:19

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I will say that anyone that takes their car racing generally falls under the same group. Whether it is autocrossing, drag racing, track days, drifting or rally. They just like cars that go fast, whether it is for different reasons or not. I think it is more to do with the fact that it is helping them become a better(and faster) driver.

Robert Maxwell > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/15/2014 at 04:23

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I split up the straight track monkeys (I generally fit in this group) with the vintage racer because there is a motivation for racing something apart from straight racing reasons.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 04:31

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This is true, but they still like to go racing. I am no a seasoned track veteran(I only got a car last year!) but I have already done a few autocrosses and I go just to have fun! I am really only competeing with myself. Everyone is also very helpful and loves giving tips. I guess that is just how everyone is in grassroots racing.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Desu-San-Desu 02/15/2014 at 04:59

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It rubs the lotion on its skin

Cynical > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 08:09

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Here here! All forms of enthusiasm can be appreciated and respected.

Tom McParland > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 09:09

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Everyone has their preferences but i think Oppo is unique in so much the generally community does have a respect for all types of cars. I don't really see a lot of "hate" towards any one thing on a regular basis. Do specific individuals have their personal favorites? Sure. But overall I think Oppo's tolerance is better than most car forums.

crowmolly > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 09:52

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My feeling has always been this:

If you shit on somebody else's ride, don't be surprised when yours is shit on as well.

Oh, and one other thing you forgot- snobbery regarding race types. There is strong ignorance on here about what it takes to be competitive in certain styles of racing.

Maddox Kay > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 10:41

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Good article but.... Euro guys hate anything without a nice badge? And they don't drive their cars? Maybe the Audizine community in Socal is just a huge exception but they're a great group of guys who have an appreciation for all cars and regularly go to the track. There are douches and posers who own all types of cars, and real enthusiasts who own all types of cars.

The Real Dacia Sandero > Robert Maxwell 02/15/2014 at 13:10

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I was at a small cars and coffee not too long ago and saw a good bit of what you're saying. There was a 964 Porsche owner there who was a bit arrogant. No one at the show was really bad, but you got a few of the stereotypes. I ended up hanging out with a group of old guys who made up the classic british cars group. There were 4 or 5 MGs and an old Austin. They were an awesome group. Two of the guys even let me take their cars for a spin. They totally welcomed me into their circle which was really awesome. Here I was this 20 year old kid hanging with a bunch of guys 2-3 times my age at minimum. They were all real owners too. Every one of them really knew their cars(insert joke about british cars and lack of reliability...).

That's how I usually end up at shows and whatnot. I get with the older guys who usually have a ton of respect and some nice cars. Usually, they aren't really into showing off like most of the "kids" are.

Jedidiah > Robert Maxwell 02/18/2014 at 01:56

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Unfortunately people will judge a car based on ideas from antiquated marketing and brand image before they consider the design constraints and actual engineering of the car.

Some people just want something that's "unique" and don't care about or appreciate anything else. These people are the automotive hipsters and badge followers.

Other people are too focused on performance and will just yak on about numbers and then make a bunch of meaningless comparisons to someone else's car, whether its a beige sedan or a similar car, in order to justify their decisions.

Non car-enthusiasts just want something that starts on the first turn and could care less about the historical and cultural impact of the car or the engineering it takes to make a good one.

A good engineer is always a good engineer regardless of where he's from and people don't seem to appreciate that. "Car enthusiasts" don't really care about cars; they're either "gotta keep up my image" enthusiasts or "gotta go-faster" enthusiasts.

Sometimes it's just nice to go for a drive y'know? I don't I can knowingly call myself a car enthusiast without sounding hypocritical.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Robert Maxwell 02/18/2014 at 03:57

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Culturally, I feel like I'm a bit outside the US norm in the auto scene. I've always driven stock, or subtly-modified cars, from a B13 Sentra XE with a stock-height SE-R suspension swap as my first car, to my current DD, a (very) lightly modified Mazda3 Skyactiv.

I'd say the most wildly modified one out of the bunch was my Volvo 740 Turbo wagon, and it was on stock suspension, stock wheels, grippy tires, a big turbo and a (too loud) custom exhaust.

This is also why the one /really/ cool meet I've been to was the SE Oppo meet, where the (small) crowd was just as content to talk about the Z24 Cavalier as they were about the SLS AMG parked in front of it.

I'm going back to more important things, like deciding whether to spend money on Fiat parts or Mazda parts. (See the advantages of not having a girlfriend? You can buy car parts instead of flowers!)

Robert Maxwell > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully 02/18/2014 at 04:02

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For the most part, I agree with your philosophy. About the girlfriend part, I am a bit of a lucky guy. My girl used to work for Audi Japan, and rides a Harley. She is mostly supportive of my automotive madness.