A CUV with a CVT a hoonmobile? I call BS

"Jonathon Klein" (jonathon-klein) 02/04/2014 at 19:43 • Filed to: WRX, Mitsubishi, Outlander, Outlander Sport, Sport, snow, drifting, drift, hoon, hooning, hoonigan, rally, wrc, race, snowing, ice, Subaru

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Don't be too sure of that statement. Many of us laugh in the face of a CVT, or even more so at the new WRX CVT, " a rally car with a CVT, the heck you say " this quote was directly taken from one of out more proper commentators. But since announcing it, many have wondered if you can really hoon a car with a CVT? I decided to take up the gauntlet since I am still an aspiring automotive journalist and don't have access to the new WRX like some people here, (Travis, Matt, Raphael, Jason, Patrick, Mate, Michael)! So I got something close to a rally car...ish.

( Full disclosure:Mitsubishi wanted me to drive the new 2014 Outlander Sport so much that I worked for Mitsubishi for a bit and my wife bought one, she liked it so much that she then decided to trade up for this year's model that has the AWD selectable function and heated seats. )

So the Outlander Sport is based actually on the Lancer chassis, thereby giving like all major CUVs a more car like feel. Unlike a car though and more like a proper SUV or truck, it affords the driver with a higher seating position. Personally, I don't actually like being higher up, I prefer to be low down, and planted in a car, "grounded to the ground" if you will. It also may have something to do with me being 6'4" and not liking my head being constantly hit by the roof. Maybe. However, Mitsubishi does give those that like to be the option to move the seat a bit lower by quite a bit. My shoulder in the lowest seating position almost meets the window sill, which is where I like to be.

The Outlander Sport does many, many things wonderfully. It get's great gas mileage. Great safety rating, my wife ask's me when we are picking out car's, "is the car baby safe" for future children, keyword future... I might lose that argument though. It is it's super safe. My only gripe with the entire car would be that the oil drain plug and the transmission drain plug are to close together and are the same style of bolt, which lets just say can be confused with one another. But all these things don't answer the main question of this article, can it hoon?

I decided to find out this last weekend while my wife was at a baby shower. I had the idea for this article for awhile, so I called up my buddy, took the car and camera to an abandoned Best Buy near my house to see whats what.

Traction control off? Check. Simulated manual paddle shift mode? Check. 4Wheel lock? Check. Camera man in position? Check. Time to give the beans!

The car rocketed off with ease, I then threw it into a corner and the back came round, but not as much as I would have liked. Ok, time to try a bit more gusto. Foot flat to the floor, turn the wheel, keep on the gas, keep turning , turn harder!!

Drifting success! There I was with a small CUV with a CVT hooning the crap out of it in the parking lot. Kicking up rooster tails and sliding the hell out of it, even getting the cameraman a bit snowy in the process. The car handled it admirably, it did what it was really never meant to have done. Hoon. This car was designed as a grocery getter for suburban housewives that don't want the size of a full SUV, but still want the high seating and 4WD. I wanted to immediately take it to Dakar, or rather I thought I could take it to Dakar! I was back to being a driving !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ! The little car was a blast to throw around. The 4WD handles wonderfully, the back end steps out perfectly, the simulated gears definitely help in getting this thing sideways. This experience made me hopeful for the new WRX with a CVT. While I would still recommend getting it in a proper Manual, the CVT depending on how they built it can be a good transmission, maybe I will get to drive it someday, but until then I can pretend that the Outlander Sport is my rally car, and overall the car was a great hoonmobile especially in the snow, but can it be an overall hoonmobile? Next time it takes on mud and dirt and hills! Spring can you come a bit sooner?!

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Photo credit to my cameraman Andrew Petrenko who had to deal with my Windows Phone to take the pictures, and to Autoweek for the Subie pic.

You can find me here on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! !

dogisbadob > Jonathon Klein 02/04/2014 at 19:52

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Can you rent them? :p

Jonathon Klein > dogisbadob 02/04/2014 at 19:54

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Not sure? They are a lot of fun though.

Rico > Jonathon Klein 02/04/2014 at 20:28

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I would be afraid to hoon something with a center of gravity that high. So +1 for being brave!

THOMAS5 > Jonathon Klein 02/04/2014 at 20:48

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While I would still recommend getting it in a proper Manual, the CVT depending on how they built it can be a good transmission, maybe I will get to drive it someday, but until then I can pretend that the Outlander Sport is my rally car, and overall the car was a great hoonmobile especially in the snow, but can it be an overall hoonmobile?

Great article but holy mother of comma-splice.

Long Live the Longdoor > Jonathon Klein 02/04/2014 at 21:24

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Here, here! Good show!

Jonathon Klein > Rico 02/05/2014 at 08:22

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It actually feels quite low when your in it, I never get the sense of it going to tip over at any point, even in dry weather, the car is remarkably stable going into a turn quickly, now the seats don't have enough bolstering to keep you planted, but that would probably be the only thing holding me back from whipping it.

Tom McParland > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:49

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That is what I'm talking about...good show man!

Rick Ross > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:51

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As an owner of two manual mitsubishis, I say fuck that!

duurtlang > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:52

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So, would you say it's great to hoon because of the transmission or despite the transmission?

Drew R Green > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:54

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As an owner of one of these Mitsus, I will say it has to be the best vehicle I've owned (out of 3 Mustangs, a Volvo, a Focus, and an Escort ZX2). Turn off the traction and you can hoon your life away in the snow. Leave the traction on and it will power its way through any amount of snow. Not to mention it's extremely comfortable!

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:55

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Prepare yourself. You've just been FP'd. I was the other day and it was overwhelming!

Vargius > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:55

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I take it you're from the US? Never heard the ASX refered to as an "Outlander Sport" before. What engine options are available to you over there? In Norway it's available with a 1,6l/116 hp gas engine FWD, 1,8l 116 hp diesel FWD/AWD and a 1,8l 150 hp diesel AWD.

I believe it was only just made available with an automatic transmission for this model year.

I think it looks great, but it looks even better as the Peugot 4008.

The Citroen Aircross doesn't look so good however.

Jonathon Klein > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 02/11/2014 at 09:56

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It happened with my first article and I know it was nuts, and I am at work and its my birthday. Shits about to get real!

StalePhish > Rico 02/11/2014 at 09:56

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I went to a winter driving class at Team O'Neil this past weekend and most of the student cars were SUVs. I took a backseat ride in someone's Tahoe, basically doing auto-cross in the snow. He spun it a couple times but I don't think anyone got even a single wheel off the ground, even during the slalom, moose test, and hitting various snowbanks.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Rico 02/11/2014 at 09:56

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It's on snow, you can even safely 'hoon' a double decker bus in the same conditions.

Jonathon Klein > Vargius 02/11/2014 at 09:57

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I think it's actually a 2.0l here and its the selectable AWD. The Peugot looks way way cooler!

Scootin159 > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:58

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CVT's can be fast and fun...

VAEngineer > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 09:58

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Great article; you almost had me convinced. If only by mother didn't drive one. +1 for not hitting that handicap sign.

Jonathon Klein > duurtlang 02/11/2014 at 09:59

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It's great to hoon despite the stigma of the transmission. In regular everyday driving it's good, and in addition, it works well when your hooning about.

Jonathon Klein > Rick Ross 02/11/2014 at 10:00

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Manual is still the way to go, I have a stick FR-S and wouldn't have it any other way, but it was still a lot of fun!

472CID > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:01

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Umm is there any vehicle that couldn't hoon in a snowy parking lot?

Jonathon Klein > VAEngineer 02/11/2014 at 10:01

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Went right through them a few times completely sideways! And yeah, that does make it a bit less attractive.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:02

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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, except that any cars/trucks/buses can be drifted in slippery conditions.

People are even doing this truly impotent vehicles such as the Panther, no wonder why you're so successful doing it with a good little car.

With that being said, it has nothing to do with a WRX.

Rico > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/11/2014 at 10:02

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Lmao nah I just would've thought with less traction chances of roll over are increased.

Rico > StalePhish 02/11/2014 at 10:03

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I feel like all my life I've been lied to. Everyone's always told me that when traction is low an SUV has a much higher chance of rolling over but those fucking assholes lied to me!

SV77 > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:04

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Not sure how the newer CVT's stack up, but my moms older 2010 Murano CVT fried itself couple winters ago. I took it out in the snow, locked the 4WD and relieved it of the traction control. 30 mins of powersliding and donuts I went to a friends house and when I left the Murano was emitting a burnt plasticky oil smell and wouldn't budge in any gear. Took it about about 2 hours to cool down and start working again. So CVT, never again.

Vargius > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:04

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Happy b-day!

92LX302 > Vargius 02/11/2014 at 10:05

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Don't listen to that guy, that's a RVR :)

Ex. President Mack41 > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:05

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" a rally car with a CVT, the heck you say " this quote was directly taken from one of out more proper commentators

Constructive criticism time since you're an aspiring auto journo, drop the Top Gear-isms like proper, it makes whatever you are writing read like a crappy forum comment and not something to be taken as journalistic.

Also, you can literally hoon anything. A 1995 Chrysler Town and Country can be hooned and it will be fun.

CreativeApex > Rico 02/11/2014 at 10:05

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Snow allows for some low-speed hooning and there is no traction to cause a flip; so you're usually safe unless you hit something or go over an embankment. Source: I used to drive like this in a 1985 bronco II every time it snowed.

Rico > SV77 02/11/2014 at 10:06

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Were you shitting bricks?

sschwing > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:06

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The CVT vs. Anything Else argument breaks down this simply:

CVT = Technologically superior in every way.

Anything Else = More fun.

I've got the CVT in my Legacy and it's great all-around, it can even be... (gasp) FUN.

That being said, I plan on buying a WRX with a manual.

Vargius > 92LX302 02/11/2014 at 10:07

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We have a saying in Norway. " Kjært barn, mange navn " best translated as " A beloved child has many names ". ;-)

Takuro Spirit > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:09

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Can you fully disable stability control? That's the only gripe I have with current AWD vehicles. The DSC/ESP/ADHD or whatever is too intrusive, and while in some cars it will allow quite a bit of slip, it eventually kills the fun by trying it's darnedest to bring the vehicle back to "normal" straight ahead motoring.

Looking at you, Mazda CX-7 and CX-9.

sschwing > SV77 02/11/2014 at 10:09

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Writing off CVTs because of your experience with one known to be sub-par is like writing off cars because your Daewoo broke down.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Rico 02/11/2014 at 10:09

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It takes a lot of dedication and a curb to roll-over a CR-V at high speed on dry pavement.

I would be more concerned about hitting a light post.

CreativeApex > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:10

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Cheers for showing a vehicle hooning that is not some semi-exotic high power car. Snow is for the masses and the great hoon-equalizer! A 115 hp bronco II will hoon with the best of them.

The only thing that would prevent a regular car from hooning is some nanny-TCS or nanny-stability system you can't turn off.

Jonathon Klein > CreativeApex 02/11/2014 at 10:12

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In this it can be fully disabled which is great!

SV77 > Rico 02/11/2014 at 10:13

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It was a lease and any mechanical issues would have been repaired under warranty, so not really. But it was rather disappointing, from such a solid car with an amazing engine

Jonathon Klein > Takuro Spirit 02/11/2014 at 10:14

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Nope you can turn it all off and really hoon. I don't get having the buttons to disable the control systems, but then still have them on? What's the point?

Bigdaddy > Rico 02/11/2014 at 10:15

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Usually, it's a sudden increase in traction whilst engaging in some fun lateral movements that cause the problem. For example, hanging the tail out sideways and hitting a dry patch of road, or sliding around a corner and going to wide and hitting the curb.

Jonathon Klein > Ex. President Mack41 02/11/2014 at 10:16

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Will take that into account next time, thanks for the help I do really appreciate it, I would rather get better then not.

SV77 > sschwing 02/11/2014 at 10:16

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I agree, but it wasn't a Daewoo, these are the same people that brought the GTR, so my expectations were a little higher

Takuro Spirit > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:17

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They can be disabled in Mazda up to 12MPH, just for getting out of sticky situations... but because government, they cannot be fully switched off.

Shit.

We had a '11 Outlander, and it never saw winter otherwise I would have tried hooning sans ESP.

Jekhall GroupJ's Gameshark > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:17

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I swear to god I'm going to pistol whip the next "journalist" who uses "proper"

Ex. President Mack41 > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:17

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Also, I like the Windows Phone use, great pics

Jonathon Klein > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/11/2014 at 10:18

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I was using it more to point out that they can be fun, and that everyone flipped their shit when Subaru announced that the new Rex would have a CVT. This is just saying that a CVT can be a lot of fun! That's all

Jonathon Klein > Ex. President Mack41 02/11/2014 at 10:19

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That's about the only thing it does well. Everything else, it's like trying to wrangle cats.

jpunk > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:19

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CVT were banned in Formula 1 before they got a single race in.

Those are pretty good sports credentials.

Ex. President Mack41 > Jekhall GroupJ's Gameshark 02/11/2014 at 10:21

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"Hey Farva, what types of nouns are the ones for names and places?"

Jonathon Klein > Jekhall GroupJ's Gameshark 02/11/2014 at 10:21

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Ok, Ok I'll stop, I'll stop, I was more making light of how Blake Zepplin Rong introduces himself on the Hooniverse podcat! You know a "proper journalist!"

I'll just see myself out

Kate's Dirty Sister > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:21

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Of course they can be fun.

By the way, the current gen Impreza/Crosstrek works a lot better with the CVT.

They've put the worst manual transmission ever in it along with the most hateful gearing ever.

Jonathon Klein > Takuro Spirit 02/11/2014 at 10:22

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That would suck, yeah no ESP is the way to go.

Jonathon Klein > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/11/2014 at 10:23

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The last auto in the Forester was a hateful piece of shit, and the new CVT is way way better, I actually did a review of the new one here .

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macanamera > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:24

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Ill just leave this here...

F1 CVT

sschwing > SV77 02/11/2014 at 10:27

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Here's an article explaining that the Murano's CVT is garbage. http://perrya.hubpages.com/hub/Nissan-Ref…

Also, you really shouldn't judge a car based on another model that the company manufactured. For instance, I wouldn't buy a Durango because Dodge makes the Viper and I wouldn't buy a Sonic because Chevy makes the Corvette.

LodestarRunner > Scootin159 02/11/2014 at 10:29

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Banned in F1 so it can't be all that bad.

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:31

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Well happy birthday dude

brian1321 > Ex. President Mack41 02/11/2014 at 10:31

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You mean proper nouns?

RealRoadNews > Jekhall GroupJ's Gameshark 02/11/2014 at 10:41

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Add "kit" to that list. Cars have features, accessories, or upgrades, not "cool kit" or "a nifty bitta kit". This is America, so keep your Wheela Deela/Top Gear hard-on under control.

(picture related)

SpikeFiend > 92LX302 02/11/2014 at 10:42

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Yes, definitely an RVR! Is it just me or is calling the CUV the same as the SUV (but with "sport") confusing? I was wondering why it didn't have the ugly moustache grille...

Ex. President Mack41 > brian1321 02/11/2014 at 10:45

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SV77 > sschwing 02/11/2014 at 10:45

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I wish i knew about that article back then, also it was my first experience really beating on a CVT. I judged the Murano from the numerous Nissans and Infiniti's my family and I had over the years, and I know they build solid cars. Also, we had the 1st gen Murano that never had a problem, it was the 2nd gen that took a crap.

zerogspacecow > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:46

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I had an Outback with CVT (my wife now has it), and I actually liked it. As far as automatics go, it was fine. I don't know that it's really "hoon" worthy, but I wouldn't hesitate to pretend I was on a rally driver on fire roads.

StevenG > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:50

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In an ideal world the CVT would be perfect for this.

It can pick the perfect RPM on engine and transmission to give you the power you want or the fuel economy you need at a given time.

Rowing your own gears is fun, but a CVT should in theory beat a human at the task.

One day CVTs will be that good, it is only a matter of time.

DasTurboWagen > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/11/2014 at 10:52

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You are right, but you get a star for the picture of that Crown Vic. If it's yours, good job. It looks nice with the Bullitt wheels.

zerogspacecow > sschwing 02/11/2014 at 10:52

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I wouldn't say a CVT is superior in every way. I had one in my Outback which my wife now has, and I liked it, but it wasn't perfect. My main gripe was that it always took a second or two to catch up if you stomped on the gas. Once it geared itself down, the power was there, but it was irritating having to wait for it to do that.

Jonathon Klein > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 02/11/2014 at 10:53

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Thanks!

sschwing > SV77 02/11/2014 at 10:55

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Sounds reasonable.

To that point - I beat the crap out of the CVT in my Legacy and the thing's a champ. 60k miles in 3.5 years, plenty of fun in the snow, paddle shifting through roundabouts, engine breaking, and the thing runs like new.

Kate's Dirty Sister > DasTurboWagen 02/11/2014 at 10:56

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Let me be clear.

I don't, I never did, and will never ever own a God damn Panther.

Acidboogie > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 10:56

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Having switched from an autotragic to a CVT a couple years ago I'll say this: CVT is far superior in just about every way to autotragic. I'd still rather be driving manual, but manual and AWD were mutually exclusive and where I am AWD is far more important than the feel of rowing gears.

inb4 "you don't need AWD just better winter tires... and AWD doesn't help to stop faster..." I've got the best winter tires I've ever used to solve the first problem, and using common sense and giving myself more room to stop solves the second problem.

StalePhish > Rico 02/11/2014 at 11:02

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I wouldn't recommend just going crazy with an SUV unless you're in an open area to test it out, but no one flipped! Here are some of my classmates doing the slalom.

And just for fun, here's me sliding around a corner at the end of the slalom:

ridered777 > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 11:11

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Wow, they did a really poor job plowing that parking lot! Where are you located? I'm jealous, a best buy rarely lets their auto-x arena's get that snowy around here... (Southeast NH)

P5guy now GTIguy > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 11:14

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Are you by chance in the Vernon Hills area?

KurtAKX > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/11/2014 at 11:14

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Truly impotent?
Stop chugging the Haterade mang'- after 2003 they're not THAT bad.

Jonathon Klein > P5guy now GTIguy 02/11/2014 at 11:20

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Yep!

Jonathon Klein > ridered777 02/11/2014 at 11:21

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It's actually a closed Best Buy so plowing is not necessary.

carphanatik > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 11:22

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I'm trying really hard to not be a grammar nazi.

P5guy now GTIguy > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 11:24

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That's awesome, I thought I recognized the Best Buy, I live 5 minutes from there !

carphanatik > Vargius 02/11/2014 at 11:25

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The Peugot looks fantastic!

pedal-force > Takuro Spirit 02/11/2014 at 11:27

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You can disable them totally, you just have to cut a wire. A lot of people with Speed3 have done it. I have a little switch under my steering column that breaks/makes the wire. It's the steering wheel angle sensor, and if you turn it off it turns off all the stability control, traction control, everything. It also stops it from pulling boost when the wheel is turned (which it does even though you have DSC turned "off"). Bad weather I leave it on, anything else, flip switch and it's all turned off.

Jonathon Klein > carphanatik 02/11/2014 at 11:29

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DO IT!!!!

Kate's Dirty Sister > KurtAKX 02/11/2014 at 11:29

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The Panther is the car equivalent of SPAM sushi.

There's a big online community, full of recipes and lot of people will tell how cheap and good it is, while in fact, it's gross and it sucks.

DasTurboWagen > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/11/2014 at 11:38

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Wow, calm down there. It's not that serious. Not cool enough for a Panther I see...

Dave Pevsner > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 11:44

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now, you have to get your hands on the new forester XT and compare. i was really bummed when i found out the XT is CVT-only now, but if the outlander CVT can be that much fun, i'm sure the subie must be a monster.

bae125 > dogisbadob 02/11/2014 at 11:50

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I travel and rent cars a lot for work. The CVT (Subarus and Nissans mostly) are the only cars that even make non-car guys groan when we get in it. They're scattered throughout rental fleets though I doubt the Hertz counter could tell you which cars they have that are equipped with one. Better in lots of ways, sure, but I hate them with a passion.

olddatto > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 11:52

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I wonder what longevity will be like with hoonable CVTs, that would be my main concern when deciding whether or not to purchase.

Rico > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/11/2014 at 11:52

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Holy shit. An old CRV is my mom's DD and every time she takes a corner hard I always think this is what's going to happen I swear. This video is nightmare fuel lol

Rico > StalePhish 02/11/2014 at 11:53

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This looks like shit loads of fun!

seoultrain > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 11:54

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Great premise for the article (not that anyone needs a reason to hoon anything), but please, PLEASE ask your wife or someone to proofread for you next time.

Jonathon Klein > Dave Pevsner 02/11/2014 at 11:59

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Trans is exponentially better than the auto it used to have, but the overall quality of the Subie is terrible, the last one was way better. If they just replaced the old trans with the new CVT it would have been a great car. All the new changes make it suck.

GreenN_Gold > 472CID 02/11/2014 at 12:01

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Any one my mom is driving.

SV77 > sschwing 02/11/2014 at 12:03

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love the Subbies, i was looking at the 3.6 legacy but they aren't available in stick.

sschwing > SV77 02/11/2014 at 12:07

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Yeah, the 3.6 is the "luxury" model, so no stick. From what I understand, the Legacy will no longer be offered in a manual starting next year.

Takuro Spirit > pedal-force 02/11/2014 at 12:13

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The wife would love that. :)

GrauGeist > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 12:15

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Oops, dead Best Buy, killed by Amazon

Stef Schrader > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 12:16

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That, sir, is absolutely beautiful.

The '10 Lulzcer with a CVT is my usual trackbeast. If I ever get a different/back-up daily, that sucker's gonna rallycross, too.

Rick Ross > Jonathon Klein 02/11/2014 at 12:18

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Yeah Jonathon, but you got to think, was it that much fun because it was a cvt, or simply because these smaller outlanders are just a well sorted chassis.

And that leads to the inevitable, would it have been more fun with a manual? Sure for doing doughnuts in the parking lot you can forget the stick, but not when hooning on the open road.

Jonathon Klein > Rick Ross 02/11/2014 at 12:25

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It's actually a great car all around. We have two dogs, one is fairly big, so when we go anywhere with them my car is usually out of the running. It is a well sorted chassis, but the Transmission I have found to be really great, and even in drier times I can have a lot of fun with it. A stick I feel in most cars would be better, but sometimes that's just not doable. In this the CVT was actually a lot of fun, especially with those paddles in the back. Any I am not a fan of paddles.

7liter12598723 > Rico 02/11/2014 at 12:39

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It's easier to roll over an SUV when you hit a firm snowbank or curb, compared to a car, but if there's no obstruction, you're not gonna flip it unless you've broken your swaybars mounts.

I do dry pavement donuts in my K5 all the time.