Jerez Testing "A total farce": Ecclestone

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 02/02/2014 at 12:24 • Filed to: f1

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The always opinionated Bernie Ecclestone has spoken out about testing, engines, fuel savings etc. You know, typical Bernie stuff. I wonder how many motorhomes the FIA uses.

Look at the last few days. I said it was going to be like this … a total farce," he told the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . "They [the FIA and the teams] insisted on these new engines. If they wanted to race like this they should go to Le Mans.

"They talk about saving fuel. They don't need these new engines to achieve that. They should get smaller motorhomes. Then they wouldn't need so many trucks going all round Europe. Mercedes are taking 23 trucks with them everywhere. If they really wanted to save fuel they should stop that.

"The whole thing with the new engines is totally absurd. People want noise - something special, that's what F1 is all about - and now we have quiet engines and nobody on the track."

Read more at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Brian Silvestro > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:26

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I agree with him. Bring back the V12's.

DeltawingGothamDeserves > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:29

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Sure. Give them free reign with what to do with engines! If they have a gas guzzling engine, cool, they will have more pit stops. Just let them do whatever the hell they want.

Biodegradable Wiring Harness > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:41

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Yikes. I totally agree with Bernie for once.

Decay buys too many beaters > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:42

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My thoughts exactly, Formula 1 should be a flat out race between some of the worlds best drivers limited only by the mechanical limitations of the cars. I don't want to see a whole race of everyone driving 7/10ths because they are worried about fuel or tires.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:44

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Why the fuck is Honda coming back Bernie? Idiot doesn't realise it's the engine manufacturers wanted to go the turbo route because of road relevance except maybe Ferrari. The v8s were a neither here not there solution. And no modern mass market car manufacturer is going to put v10s in their cars. Good luck getting Nissan or Toyota or bmw back into the sport. Porsche said fuck it and went to le mans and are racing an I4 hybrid from reports. And all of this makes a ton more sense than your hair brained scheme of fucking sprinklers and double points.

SteyrTMP > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:44

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I wonder how many motorhomes the FIA uses.

You mean to carry Bernie's ego?

That and I thought he was behind all this new engine bullshit...

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:47

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The new engines aren't quiet either. The v10s wailed. Turbos aren't quiet. Seriously the late 80s turnouts weren't quiet man. People loved them. Did you even listen to the new Ferrari engine? The only engines not running are Renault :P our Bernie is just mad that his finger might not win the championship if Renault doesn't fix their problems and also because nobody gives a fuck what he thinks anymore.

ScreenShot > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:50

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G'im hell bernie!

Spanielmander > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:54

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"I, more than anyone else on earth, am responsible for turning Formula 1 into a massive globe-spanning corporation that eats TV money and shits carbon and broken dreams, and I'm pissed that I don't have dictatorial power over every aspect of the sport." Ran Bernie through Google Translate, Dickwegian to American.

Racescort666 > DeltawingGothamDeserves 02/02/2014 at 12:56

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I believe what you are implying would require them to bring back refueling mid race. While racing is a dangerous sport, the issues that they have had in the past support the fueling ban in favor of increased safety. No one wants to burn to death in the pits.

123456 > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 12:58

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Look, I don't have a problem with V6's or turbo's. But I completely agree with Bernie, F1 needs NOISE. The new engines, although interesting from a technical perspective, are so quiet.

Check out the video below, none of the cars were running near full power last week (Merc max 13k rpm). But still, listen to how quiet they are. There was a comparison video earlier last week, with 2013 vs 2014 cars. But this video really illustrates how quiet the cars are.

d3v > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 02/02/2014 at 13:00

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This, let's not forget that thanks to the turbo sixes, we're finally seeing some form of engine innovation the likes which we haven't seen in Formula 1 in over 2 decades. The new tech is something that might even be useful for road car engines for one.

Also, speaking of "2 decades" is it just me, or do people seem to forget that the first turbo era existed. Was anyone complaining about the noise of the engine and other such trivialities back then? No, because everyone was focused on winning.

123456 > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 02/02/2014 at 13:00

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There is no problem with turbo engines. The problem is the fuel limit and fuel flow restrictions that basically cut the racing by the neck. There won't be flat out racing, this year will turn into a Le Mans style endurance fuel saving race.

The engines need to be given more power, no fuel flow restrictions and a 30-40% larger fuel allowance per race.

Victorious Secret > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:01

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Someone please put this old hag out of his misery. He is the one who drives the sport into obscurity, he has no right to bitch at all.

Le Mans should be the testing ground for all that is cutting edge and revolutionary. Let the WEC let manufacturers explore different powertrains and tech.

Has anyone looked at the LMP1 rules? Its a fucking free for all. Pick whatever engine layout and hybrid addition and type of fuel. Your fuel allocation changes based on what combination you have. Thats it. They have the BARE MINIMUM OF RULES to allow for a competitive field. Why can't that stay as it is, and why can't F1 go back to simply being the best of the best of the best?

Why are we imposing STUPID restrictions on design, aero, traction control or anything else? F1 is not the poor mans sport, stop catering to teams that can't afford it. I'm sorry, but I don't care that HRT couldn't compete in a more open F1 setup. the drivers can prove their worth to teams and get hired out of skill. Or how much money they bring. But I don't want F1 catering to the poor teams who can't afford the crazy shit the better teams can.

How is that fun? Is having the same 10 people bring up the rear all season long fun for Bernie? It isn't fun for me. Why not cut the dead weight that isn't doing anything? Why not let teams actually innovate and try crazy shit? Why not, and I know this is a radical idea for the old hags that run the FIA, let the sport be genuinely fun again? Why not let it be dramatic and unpredictable?

WEC is far more entertaining. More now than before. Its exciting. There is a sense of everyone having something to prove and lose. The rivalries are intense. The cars are driven hard all the time. There are no excuses tossed around. There is no team to team bitching about unfairness. Its 6-24 hours of racing and at the end you feel as if the winner actually won it.

F1...meh. I can't even spare the DVR space for that crap anymore.

Racescort666 > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 02/02/2014 at 13:02

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I went on a pretty good rant in another article talking about how fuel saving should be completely irrelevant. If a team has to make the decision to save fuel, they have done a poor job of engine development and getting the most efficient car.

Simple as that. F1 is not only a race on the track but a technology race, an "arms race" if you will. (I borrowed "arms race" from someone else.) If your engine isn't efficient enough to get you around the track but someone else's is, you have lost the arms race because they have a better car than you. The rules are putting more focus on efficiency than they have in the past which makes the tech development interesting. From a science and engineering standpoint, I think the turbo engines are much cooler and much more interesting.

123456 > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 02/02/2014 at 13:02

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The new turbo engines are very quiet. In fact, they are quieter than the current GP2 cars. There are many videos on youtube that show how quiet the cars really are.

irisfailsafe5000 > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:02

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I wish the German justice sends him to jail and he is forced to sell F1. He makes tons of money for himself but we now see races with empty stands, many legendary circuits missing and an F1 that is making cars go slow.

interrogator-chaplain > Brian Silvestro 02/02/2014 at 13:03

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Weirdly, so do I. Let's bring the noise back, but let's go further and stick a pair of turbos on those V12's.

Then set up a course that can actually test that whole: "F1 cars can drive upside down." theory.

d3v > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:03

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Yet at the same time, Bernie himself was one of those that helped usher in the first turbo era when his Brabham team took the first world championship by a turbo car in 1983 (with BMW power).

Brian Silvestro > interrogator-chaplain 02/02/2014 at 13:03

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Fuck it why not

123456 > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 13:06

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This year they'll be running at 1/10ths because of the idiotic engine and fuel limitations.

Racescort666 > d3v 02/02/2014 at 13:09

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Replace "combustor" with "engine" and this is how I have been looking at these engines. Not really a new concept but I don't know that anyone has put a lot of development into it.

d3v > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:09

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Checking the link, I'm more interested in the photo where Kevin Magnussen is being called the new Iceman.

I'm sorry, but the only Iceman on the track is old' Mumbles himself.

Powersurge > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:11

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The problem I have with this is that he's combining to separate issues into one. I agree with him on the fuel restrictions, they are completely absurd and will just ruin the racing. But the turbo engines themselves are perfectly fine. They may not be as loud, but I like the noise they make and they are a welcome change/challenge for the teams. The V8s were no longer relevant to technology development for manufacturers. So keep the turbos, just get rid of the idiotic fuel saving bullshit.

Decay buys too many beaters > 123456 02/02/2014 at 13:12

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Which is why qualification may very well be the most exciting part of this season

ethanheisler > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:13

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I hate him. His "they can go to LeMans" attitude is particularly hilarious as endurance racing is poised to enter a new golden age.

Dusty Ventures > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:18

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23 trucks is kinda ridiculous

Powersurge > Racescort666 02/02/2014 at 13:18

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But I want Vettel to burn to death in the pits...

SandZR2 > 123456 02/02/2014 at 13:21

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They should have no fuel flow limit or fuel allowance for the race. The should be limited by the size of the fuel cell which they should be allowed to refill during the race. This way teams would have to balance the power made vs. the time in the pits.

hawkeye18 > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:25

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As much of an asshat as Ecclestone is, I'm gonna have to agree with him on this one.

TheDoubleClutchBandit > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:26

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I can't believe I'm agreeing with Bernie Ecclestone.

Pitchblende > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:34

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The more you watch F1, the more you remember not to pay they blindest bit of interest in whatever is spewing from Bernie's mouth on any particular day. He is a notorious troll, saying anything to stir up interest and controversy. There used to be a saying "Expect exactly the opposite of what Bernie just said".

I'm not blasting his business sense or his management skills, but these often seem to mean he pits people and groups against each other, threatens to pull the plug on something just to make sure extra effort is put in to make sure it happens and appears to violently oppose something that he thinks should have been and could have been better.

SaiDas > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:45

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I agree with Bernie. The fuel consumed in F1 cars is dwarfed by that of the support infrastructure...motor homes, jets, etc.

greenagain > Racescort666 02/02/2014 at 13:45

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Even if they didn't refuel part of the issue is that the new rules reduced fuel capacity by about 25%.

kniga > 123456 02/02/2014 at 13:50

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I don't understand what prevents flat out racing (I assume pedal to the metal in this case) even with reduced gas tank size. After all, the throttle and the software can be adjusted to allow the drivers to race flat out without worrying about fuel. As for the fuel flow meters, they are not here to limit the amount of fuel used. They're here to restrict the engine power to a certain level. That's the main point.

czechmonsterdeux > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 13:51

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This might be the only time I agree with Bernie the Clown.

123456 > kniga 02/02/2014 at 13:53

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The ECU's are homologated. And if you want to map the throttle for eco driving you can say goodbye to useful throttle response.

123456 > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 13:53

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Agreed. That and pre season testing.

123456 > SandZR2 02/02/2014 at 13:54

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I understand the ban on refueling to promote effiency. But the new fuel cell limit is an overstep. It's to extreme, at least for the first season with new powerplants.

kniga > hawkeye18 02/02/2014 at 13:56

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Agree with what? Racing with 40 year old technology? Are you one of those nut cases on the forums who also argue that F1 cars should have no aero parts and cars should rely only on mechanical grip?

The naturally aspirated engines were beaten to death in the 60s and 70s, and in the 80s we had the revs go up to the levels where you need pneumatic valves. Then what? Continue racing with the same thing into 2020s? Hybrid turbo-electric powertrains are much more fun. Bernie is an idiot. He just wants all teams to run on shoe string budget, using customer chassis if necessary, and save as much money as possible for himself. That's the issue. You actually need a sizable budget to develop these new cars.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > 123456 02/02/2014 at 13:59

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Frankly, I was worried too.But this is the first season of an all new formula. Some variation in racing from the past decade where reliability has been very good is good to have. Fuel flow rate while seemingly extreme will be conquered by the engineers. These guys clawed back the double diffuser aero advantage in a year. Pirelli were suprised that the cars were able to generate so much downforce and stress the tyres a lot more than they expected. Also aero restrictions this year make the cars slower. Once the aero guys get their act together, we'll see the cars speed up, not to mention engine/powerplant advances. A bit of tough love imo.

kniga > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 14:01

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What do you mean by "7/10"? If you mean by this "pedal to metal", there is nothing preventing the teams from adjusting the throttle and the software to allow the drivers to race hard without saving any fuel from the race start to the beginning. As for fuel flow meters, they're not for limiting the fuel used (that's done by the limited tank). Their purpose is to limit the engine power to some fixed amount.

kniga > Brian Silvestro 02/02/2014 at 14:03

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Even Ferrari realized that V12 was a bad idea in the early 90s and designed a new V10 engine as soon as they could. High cylinder count means nothing. V12 is just for poseurs who like to rub the cylinder count in your face.

Captain Gumbo > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 14:03

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I feel disgusted that I'm agreeing with Bernie, but he's 100% right. I like that Le Mans is trying to save on fuel economy through new tech, but F1 is a different beast. I enjoy the roughly 90 minutes of flat out racing at it's finest. I want the screaming sound of a high revving V12 again, there's no noise on earth so wonderful as that.

Brian Silvestro > kniga 02/02/2014 at 14:03

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THE SOUND

kniga > TheDoubleClutchBandit 02/02/2014 at 14:08

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So basically, you agree that F1 should be about noise-induced "show" rather than good racing and developing bleeding edge technology? It's mind boggling how many people want to tie all value of F1 just to the noise of engines. If all the people who come to the races just for the noise stayed at home, the racing would have been much better right now. The same thinking also led to the introduction of DRS and double points season finishing GPs. The sooner Bernie retires, the better for the sport.

MrMahoney > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 14:10

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So much Ecclestone hating. Everyone was complaining about V6 turbos, now he's saying that there should be big engines everyone is complaining about that? It doesn't make sense, these new F1 regs just seem to be creating bandwagons. It sickens me to see our community of Motorsport fans turn into the children I come across on Xbox live. Opinionated and uninformed.
On a side note Bernie Ecclestone was one of the few people on the political side of things who helped push for safety.
I personally don't care about any of this shit, aslong as the lights turn green in Melbourne I'm a happy man.

kniga > SaiDas 02/02/2014 at 14:13

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Bernie's argument is rather stupid.

It's rather short sighted to think that new engines are there simply to save the fuel costs of the teams. This was never the intention. The point it is stay road relevant. The road cars are going with hybrid power plants, diesels, CVTs, turbos, and whatnot to save fuel. If F1 wants to be road relevant, it should do that too instead racing with 30-year old engine tech. We had naturally aspirated engines in 70s and 80s. Let's move on from that.

TheDoubleClutchBandit > kniga 02/02/2014 at 14:14

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Yes, that's what I'm saying. There can still be good racing, and I want some engine howling to be a part of it.

Decay buys too many beaters > kniga 02/02/2014 at 14:17

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I mean in terms of driver/car potential. Right now it seems the thing that will hold everyone back is fuel and tires (fucking lame). I want to see racing where the limiting factor is either the man or the machine.

kniga > Captain Gumbo 02/02/2014 at 14:18

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If noise is all you like about racing, maybe you should stay at home or go to circus. The naturally aspirated formula has been beaten to death. We had this thing going since the 60s. Even heard of Cosworth DFV V8? Even Ferrari abandoned its V12 engine in the 90s because this engine was the primary reason why Ferrari was the laughing stock of F1 back then.

kniga > Biodegradable Wiring Harness 02/02/2014 at 14:19

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I agree. Formula 1 should become like NASCAR, using totally irrelevant engines, DRS, and the double points finishes in the last 10 races.

onerunjunior > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 14:26

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This is the same asshole that is in favor of some races counting for double points. Oh, and the same asshole that wanted to award medals for the podium spots. This hypocrite can shut the fuck up any time now. Bernie is nothing more than a shit stirrer. He'd do well to keep his mouth shut calling other people ideas stupid when his have been just as stupid if not more so. Fuck Bernie, it's long time he left and stopped sucking money out of this sport.

DeltawingGothamDeserves > Racescort666 02/02/2014 at 14:29

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Hell yea, bring back refueling. Safety has improved, or just do what NASCAR does with their fueling. The cans. I mean, have YOU seen anyone burn in NASCAR? Other than Juan Pablo:

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 14:30

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While I disagree about the quiet engine part (I prefer the new engine sound), all in all he is not wrong.

kniga > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 14:34

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I don't see the fuel being a problem. Like I mentioned, the throttle and engine software can be adjusted so that the drivers don't need to worry about saving fuel all the time. Yes, the cars will be slower, but it still takes human still to take as much of whatever speed you have through the corner as possible. So to me it does not matter if the cars are going 170 or 220mph on the straights, but I want them to be on the edge of mechanical grip in the corners. Having bad tires does prevent this. I hope this year's tires will be better.

SaiDas > kniga 02/02/2014 at 14:39

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Since when was F1 road relevant? It is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing engineering, design, and driving. There are plenty of other series better suited for "road relevance" I think...like WEC endurance racing.

Decay buys too many beaters > kniga 02/02/2014 at 14:43

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Hopefully, yes, the tires will be better this year. Pretty sure Pirelli will be trying extra hard to avoid another PR disaster.

And maybe it's the mechanical engineer in me, but I hate the idea that a pure blood race-car would have to be artificially dumbed down for something as trivial as fuel (and some kind of fucking "green" mentality). I want to see what the current formula can REALLY do, basically I'd be happy if they brought back refueling.

Axial > Brian Silvestro 02/02/2014 at 14:46

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Flat-12 get.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 14:52

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Turbo cars need not be quiet.

NicAndre > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 14:54

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This is one of the first times I've heard something not ridiculous come out of Bernie's mouth.

In terms of engines, I think there are two things in racing that fascinate me: noise and power. If I'm going to listen to a vacuum cleaner 1.5L turbo that's going to leave my ears wanting more, I had better instead be fascinated by just how much power they produce - yet this is not the case.

Ferrari's 015 flat 12 and Ford's DFV fascinate me because they are the pinnacle of aural pleasure. Renault's turbo and the Honda RA168-E fascinate me because they produced such immense power, that, despite the lack of noise, stimulates my imagination.

Sadly, I feel as if the new engines lack both. They don't emit a make-me-shit-my-pants noise, yet they also don't fascinate me with cranked up boost and 900-1000 HP in race trim.

SandZR2 > 123456 02/02/2014 at 15:06

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i understand the desire to improve efficiency and I think limiting fuel cell size but not overall usage would help that. When I think of turbos in F1 I think of the incredible cars from the 80's. I think F1 races would be much more exciting if the cars were making 1000+ horsepower and were constantly on the verge of exploding.

morepowerigoragain > d3v 02/02/2014 at 15:11

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Look at this picture carefully.

His right eye is looking at us, his left eye past us...maybe this is his secret; One eye on the apex, one on the straight?

MTY85 > Victorious Secret 02/02/2014 at 15:20

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It's not a poor man's sport? Who would want to go back to the days when you had a few competitive teams and everyone else was left in the dust?

kent-skinner > Racescort666 02/02/2014 at 15:20

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Perhaps if they just used a reasonable size pump to refuel. If it was slow, there would be incentives to use less fuel.

Just because F1 used an absurdly complex and expensive fuel rig in the past, doesn't mean they have to do it again.

Bueller > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 15:22

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I miss the days when F1 was about as much technical prowess as driving skills. The regulations pretty much let the teams concoct technical solutions within certain few limits, like displacement and chassis metrics.

Then came Balestre and couldn't find an engineering genius who he didn't despise. Ecclestone battled him often and his rising to FIA could be the return of F1 to its glorious days of innovation. Alas, over time, Ecclestone pretty much channeled Balestre throughout his leadership at FIA, not only in F1, but in everything under FIA.

So, it's pretty rich and vacuous that Ecclestone is now channeling his own 80s self as if he really meant it.

Bueller > TheDoubleClutchBandit 02/02/2014 at 15:23

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Don't worry, he duped the whole wide world with similar talk before his ascension to chair FIA.

Scrape > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 15:29

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Bernie also forgot to mention that they FLY the cars and all the pit equipment via DHL for any race outside of Europe. Talk about fuel burn.

Evergreener > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 15:32

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Bring back the V-12... market your v-6 road car as having "Half an F1 motor!".

ttyymmnn > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 15:36

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Quali has been the most exciting part of the sport since they went to knockout qualifying. It's my favorite part of the weekend. I'd like to see the return of one-off qualifying cars.

grahamrh808 > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 15:40

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Meh. I think he's just bitter because his goldenboys Vettel, Horner, and Red Bull had a dismal week.

Anyone else?

DCrants > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 15:50

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I don't want to see a whole race of everyone driving 7/10ths because they are worried about fuel or tires.

Fuel and tires have always played a major role in how they race. Memories of "flat-out" racing are the effects of nostalgia pushed into overdrive. Watch (or re-watch) some races from the 70s-90s and then come back and tell me fuel consumption and/or tire wear played no part in how they drove. If your statement above is true, then you never had any interest in F1 to begin with (and maybe that's your point).

NicAndre > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 02/02/2014 at 16:13

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Isn't the a110-50 naturally aspirated?

996C2 > d3v 02/02/2014 at 16:48

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I enjoyed the explosions and fires from the first gen turbo's back in the 80's. I still have a valve from a Zakspeed on my desk in the den I picked up from a track inspection between sessions in Montreal. Wearing those stupid rubber gloves because of KERS was a drag (hot and sweaty) so now I suppose we'll be handed those silicon type oven mitts now to handle the fires. OK, I'm in!

Biodegradable Wiring Harness > kniga 02/02/2014 at 16:49

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I said "for once". For once. Don't agree with all that other stuff he said on other occasions.

Dreamspawn > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 16:59

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Why not both??? Im a firm believer in a multi engine F1. Massive turbo i4, smaller turbo v6, supercharged v8, mid-displacment v10, small displacement v12. Bring back refueling and bam Ithink more interesting racing. Also once the manufacturer picks a motor they are stuck with it all year.

Huell Howitzer > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 16:59

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Isn't the challenge of the technology part of the draw? I love the fact that the manufacturers are working their butts off trying to balance speed with reliability. The last few years have been too easy, too reliable. That's why rain races are so interesting, to throw some challenge and unpredictability into the game makes it less of a parade and more a challenge of the fight against attrition and driving perfection rather that a Red Bull parade. Bernie has his favorite boy Vettel and he's not so happy to see him without a perfect car. The first week test of a new engine formula, there's bound to be some bugs to work out, but it certainly doesn't look like it will be a throwaway season. Now about the engine sound...that will take some getting used to for me...

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > NicAndre 02/02/2014 at 17:02

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Looks like you're right. I was sure it was a turbo. Still sounds great.

Captain Gumbo > kniga 02/02/2014 at 17:02

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I don't believe I said that noise is all I like about racing. By my recollection I mentioned I enjoyed the flat out racing, which we won't see in an attempt to get fuel conservation standards. But is there something wrong with me enjoying the sound of an NA engine?

Powersurge > Huell Howitzer 02/02/2014 at 17:21

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Spot on. We'll actually see cars retire from the races for the first time in what, 4 or 5 years? Attrition has always played a part in F1 and the lack of it in recent years just diminished the sport. That's how innovation and progress happen and it's what keeps things interesting for everyone.

LugNutz > DeltawingGothamDeserves 02/02/2014 at 17:31

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I agree completely. Even if it takes them 20 seconds to fuel a car, if it takes everyone 20 secs then there is no advantage. Using a spec fuel can that only refuels so quickly while leaving the engine fuel parameters unlimited would be much preferred to what they are going to be doing this year.

DeltawingGothamDeserves > LugNutz 02/02/2014 at 17:32

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Exactly! Thats what I was trying to say..

Tom > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 17:52

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And this is why we love Bernie. He is partially correct, but the Bernie flare makes it so much better than if it was just someone else reporting this.

99TandC > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 18:02

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When hasn't it been? The only truly exciting F1 race I've ever seen was in Brazil when Lewis Hamilton robbed Massa I think of the Championship on the last lap.

rgt881 > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 18:05

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Exactly! Berne is sport on with his observations...If this was truly about economy and costs then there would have been behind the scenes changes rather than shoving vibrating dildos up the spectators asses. By that I mean these F1 cars look like dildos and sound like vibrators. So yea 2014 vibrating dildo sponsored by Red Bull.

R3d_C0met > Brian Silvestro 02/02/2014 at 18:11

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Either the V12's or the V10's. The V8's can stay away.

Brian Silvestro > R3d_C0met 02/02/2014 at 18:14

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I'll take V10's

NicAndre > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 02/02/2014 at 18:29

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Couldn't agree more! Your point is right though - a turbo doesn't always need to be quiet.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Decay buys too many beaters 02/02/2014 at 19:09

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how it used to be in the glorious turbo days of yore.

if only we could get ~1500hp qualifying sessions again.

danardif1 > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 19:33

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It's only a 'total farce' because his golden boy and also his heir-to-be are seemingly in big trouble...

danardif1 > Dusty Ventures 02/02/2014 at 19:35

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He fails to mention that besides the team's own trucks that includes the customer support vehicles for McLaren, Williams and Force India.

danardif1 > d3v 02/02/2014 at 19:39

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And Renault were the ones to bring it into F1 in the first place back in 1977...

If any other team than Red Bull (except maybe Ferrari) were in so much potential trouble with the new engines he wouldn't be saying a word.

He's also targeting Mercedes because he's had to kind of bend over backwards to convince them to commit to F1 for the future... Wolff and Lauda made some big noises about the new Concorde agreement being in contravention of EU discrimination laws, and Bernie had to backtrack on some clauses that were very favourable to his new best buds at Red Bull in order to placate Mercedes.

Howie > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 02/02/2014 at 19:55

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hmmm.... I've always looked at F!'s "road relevance" being about the same as NASCRAP's which is to say just about none.

DoctorDick > ttyymmnn 02/02/2014 at 20:53

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I agree with him but, I was pleasantly surprised by the testing. The new cars looked and sound surprisingly good. I'm holding my judgement till we see a qualifying and a race.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > Howie 02/02/2014 at 21:23

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Except we're in a post 2008 world and car manufacturers want it. They're the ones who wanted road relevance

Firenze Storm > interrogator-chaplain 02/03/2014 at 00:07

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I think the track idea is going too far. I like to see racing, not a driver dieing.

But yeah I still remember the old banshee scream of those V12s...

Firenze Storm > TheDoubleClutchBandit 02/03/2014 at 00:08

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Ill be honest, the new engines are gorgeous. I love the noise. The only bit I dont like is the jet like whine.

d3v > danardif1 02/03/2014 at 00:08

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Well, it's Bernie, you don't expect him to be impartial now do you.

FoolInjection > ttyymmnn 02/03/2014 at 06:49

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Formula 1 should be the pinnacle of motor-racing. The best engine technology and aerodynamics combined to produce beautiful cars with the best drivers in the world; on a whistle stop tour of the planets best race circuits.

The way I see it is that with the engines you could go two ways. Either creating the most power from the smallest and lightest engines you can build e.g. that 3 cylinder engine I've heard about which weighs 40kg and produces the same power as BMW M3. Or you go back to the old days where you had screaming V12 engines delivering massive great lumps of power.

One thing I do maintain though is that the drivers should drive the cars themselves and not be aided by any kind of computer software such as traction control or even a flappy paddle gearbox. They should have an H-pattern gearbox and 3 pedals like most peoples road cars still do. Lets face it, it should really be a test of skill rather than a test of a teams bank balance and computer software.

I yearn for a return to the days of Senna, Prost and Mansell. A time when you would see drivers screaming around corners with one hand on the wheel, the other changing gears. Huge slick rear tyres. Cars scraping the bumps on the back straight after Eau Rouge creating spectacular showers of sparks. Beautifully designed cars like the McLaren MP4-4 and not the sex-aid front nose cones they have now.

The sad thing is... I know it'll never happen. This years F1 cars are just plain ugly, with smaller engines than you can buy in cars off of a showroom forecourt and combined with crazy rules like double points in the last race... It's not the Formula 1 I remember loving as a kid anymore and hasn't been for some time.

R3d_C0met > Brian Silvestro 02/03/2014 at 06:53

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Me too, they had a nice 22k rpm sound to them.