Alright Oppo, I Need Information and Opinions on a Neon

"StoneCold" (StoneCold)
10/21/2014 at 19:18 • Filed to: Neon, craigslist

In return, I will find your favorite bait and reply with it.

Educate me on Neons. Why wouldn't this one be selling? I'm assuming the transmission is a concern as well as the timing belt.

http://boulder.craigslist.org/cto/4716113881…

DISCUSSION (56)

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:22

If this uses the Mitsubishi designed 4 cyl engine that Chrysler stuck in everything from that era, then you have about 60-80,000 miles left before it dies a horrible death.

kincai28 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:23

Because its a Neon.

In all seriousness, you can get a Nissan Sentra of similar vintage for that price and that would be my choice.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
10/21/2014 at 19:24

60-80,000 miles? Depending on how much you drive, that could be a few years' worth of driving. Those things run around all over the place here, and a lot of them have over 200k miles. They seem like they last a good while.

jkm7680 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:24

Because that horrible steering wheel.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe
10/21/2014 at 19:27

If you are lucky. As I recall the neon was pretty reliable, for a Chrysler.

StoneCold > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
10/21/2014 at 19:31

Name-a-bait.

StoneCold > kincai28
10/21/2014 at 19:33

http://boulder.craigslist.org/cto/4723394807…

If I could, I'd recommend this, but it's out of the price range. :/

promoted by the color red > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:33

1.) Color. Not everybody wants to shout "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M PIKACHU!"

2.) Automatic gearbox. 1. and 2. pretty much limit it to teen girl car status. Most teen boys would prefer to look elsewhere.

3.) It's a mid '00s American car. It was built off something from the '90s that was alright but they just sat back and dressed it up a bit. At least the drivetrain's going to last, even if it sounds like it's near death.

4.) It is quite literally a screaming metal death trap. Go watch the crash test footage of the Neon. These guys explain it better than me:

StoneCold > jkm7680
10/21/2014 at 19:34

But 3-and-9 positions!

PS9 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:34

I honestly would not trust anything from that era that wasn't either V8 powered or made in Japan.

StoneCold > promoted by the color red
10/21/2014 at 19:36

Well, this car is for a gal, so she doesn't care as long as it works. Thank you for the crash info! What's your bait?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:37

Because they're incredibly boring to look at. The drivetrain is likely the same as the non-GT Turbo PT Cruiser, which is a painfully anemic engine (compared to the 205hp turbo version). The interior build quality is awful.

I like Buicks made after 1996 except the Regal and Century. :P

StoneCold > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/21/2014 at 19:41

Perfect, this car doesn't have to be exciting, it just has to work.

Newer? No love for the GS?

Kinja'd!!!

Tohru > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:42

Neons have rubbish build quality and they eat head gaskets like candy.

StoneCold > PS9
10/21/2014 at 19:42

Not trust....what? The trans? The engine? The accessories?

JGrabowMSt > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:43

I currently own one, what are your primary concerns? The trans and the timing belt?

The trans is fine. Change the fluid, keep driving it. Unless it makes a grinding noise after a cold start (the weather needs to be cold for this), or you can't shift smoothly between gears, the trans is fine. Syncros are known to go in them, but I wouldn't call it widespread, just when they're really abused. The automatics are trap though. The first thing you need to do with an automatic is install an external trans cooler. The stock transmission cooler is located inside radiator. They're known for springing leaks. It's an issue.

The timing belt is 105k miles service life. Do it right away though unless it's been done in the past 30k. Never trust someone who says they did it, check it.

They really like copper core spark plugs. They run poorly with platinums, so just give them copper ones and call it a day.

Mine runs with a 7lb pressure cap on the coolant line. I'd suggest thinking about trying this yourself if you get it. I've never overheated, never had a reason to do the head gasket, etc etc.

Check the PCV valve. They go bad quickly, and the motor starts to burn oil.

It's a Chrysler, so every bushing everywhere is not known for lasting a long time. The good part is that it's a Neon, so parts are pretty cheap. Just don't buy Moog sway bar links. They don't fit the car. Buy the ones from the dealer. They're about the same price, and definitely fit.

The rear crossmember can either last a long time, or rust out completely. I've seen both. Mine is still in good shape, but I've seen other ones completely rusted out.

They're unibody cars, and Mercedes decided to only rust proof the outside of the metal. There's no access to the inside, so expect to see your rockers rust through if you're in the rust belt.

As a daily driver, they're not bad. They wont win any awards, but a well kept Neon will give you 30ish MPG no matter how you whip it around, and it'll be pretty forgiving in terms of handling. Monroe Quick Struts are readily available, tires aren't that expensive, and overall, they aren't really bad cars.

Mine just rolled past 120k, no problems. All maintenance is done early and preventative. Only thing that has really been troublesome is the parking brake. Otherwise, fairly reliable car. You can get plenty of parts from U-Pulls, and you can do just about everything you need to on the motor from your own garage if you're patient enough, and like playing tetris.

AthomSfere > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:43

These were actually pretty decent cars for Dodge at the time. DOHC and a manual, not bad at all. The biggest problem: It was a compact Dodge that Dodge enthusiasts hated and the import guys (Who this car really should have done a little better with) refused to admit it was just as much fun as a similar Civic / Integra.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:50

And work it will.

doodon2whls > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:54

It's probably not a terrible car, but it would be nice to know about it's history.

It's probably not moving because it's 12 years old with 105K miles and they are asking $2500. You could probably offer less and snag it. There are a few things to look out for...

The multifunction switch design and wiring was an issue in this generation, so you'd want to replace that and the connector with the latest parts. If you do not, rapid oxidation of your vehicle may occur without warning.

The front lower control arm rear bushings (vertical spool) have a tendency to de-laminate and make noise. It's not going to fall off, but it does make noise and change the suspension geometry negligibly.

The front lower ball joints have no zerk fittings, so make sure the LBJ's are quiet and have no play. If your spool bushings are shot, then just buy the whole LCA assemblies with new LBJ's and bushings in it. Bingo-Bango.

The front sway bar bushings get eaten up by the rusty swaybar after many years of salt, so you'd need to look at them, but be careful removing the bushing straps - the bolts usually rust into the front suspension crossmember (k-member). If you break them off in there, extraction is not fun. Don't ask me how I know.

The front swaybar end-links get a workout on this car. Make sure they are both there.

The halfshaft boots are pretty rugged, but if a ham-fisted mechanic has been rooting around under there, look/smell for leaks.

Ensure that the accessory belt and tensioner look healthy. The alternator has a separate V-belt drive from the multi-groove accessory belt, so be sure to look at that (pass side rear of engine).

105K is the factory recommended Timing Belt replacement (well at least it is on my DOHC 2.4L Turbo engine) That's a hoot and a half to do, but it can be done in car. Not sure if the SOHC has the same change interval.

The rear suspension jounce bumpers have a tendency to disintegrate and the strut rods corrode something fierce at the top. You can look at this with the car on a jack. Pull the dust boot down to look at the strut rod. You can peel the dust boot from the strut at the bottom and peak in there to see how much of the rear jounce bumpers are left. The rest of the rear suspension is pretty solid.

Only the front windows are power. Deal with it.

That seems like a lot, but that's only because I know this platform _real_ well. I own one and have done just about all of these repairs to my 9 year old car which I treat nicely. I have 120K+ on the original clutch, engine, motor, but then I am not driving the car like an idiot making hole-shot launches from light to light.

If you point out just a few of these issues (which I am sure it may have) then you can talk them down from $2500.

Bait: Show me some Singer Porsche porn that I haven't seen here.

Hal Hawley > Tohru
10/21/2014 at 19:54

Kinja'd!!!

cayman2007 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 19:56

I bought a Neon for my son (my mom wanted to get rid of it), it had 40,000 miles on it. It lasted nine months and then the engine seized. My daughter bought one a few years ago too, it's a complete piece of shit but her boyfriend is a mechanic so there's that. These things leak every fluid found in a car, always. She has another 18 months to go before she's done her nursing degree so the Neon will have to last her a bit longer, I have my doubts.

StoneCold > Tohru
10/21/2014 at 20:00

Hmm, looks like the first gen is more of a concern:

http://repairpal.com/head-gasket-ma…

http://repairpal.com/dodge-neon-200…

Aesthetic build quality or structural/mechanical? It just has to work.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:01

The main reasons why the prices are so low are because of stigma, and people not changing ATF and thinking their trans is going. Around here, you can get a lot better cars for $2500, but if that's what you're into, I have a spare Haynes Manual I can send you.

BigBlock440 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:02

The only thing I've heard bad about them was the headgasket in the 2.0. I prefer the look of the first gen, but almost bought a 2nd gen twice. Ended up going with a bigger car both times, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one as long as the condition matched the price.

StoneCold > JGrabowMSt
10/21/2014 at 20:02

Thank you for the details! The problem with this is all of the things you mentioned, I wouldn't mind doing, but the car is a few states away :(

Bait?

StoneCold > doodon2whls
10/21/2014 at 20:07

Thank you Thank you Thank you. I will be sure to mention these, especially looking at the belts.

I think the full cars have been posted all the time, but what about the little things?

http://numero—13.blogspot.com/2011/01/singer…

StoneCold > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
10/21/2014 at 20:09

This car isn't for me, but I greatly appreciate the offer! So what sort of things would you listen and feel for to know if the trans is actually *going*?

StoneCold > BigBlock440
10/21/2014 at 20:13

Okay, I'll make sure she asks if head gaskets were ever done.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicl…

440 Alright by you?

Kinja'd!!!

StoneCold > AthomSfere
10/21/2014 at 20:14

Okay, but they were livable? This is just going to be a DD, not a racecar.

StoneCold > cayman2007
10/21/2014 at 20:14

Uh-oh, what made the car seize, if I might ask?

doodon2whls > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:15

You welcome... And thanks for the Singer Porn ! That's good stuff right there. Hadn't seen that gallery before.

cayman2007 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:16

He drove it through some water, it was raining pretty hard and the puddles were sizeable. I didn't see any other cars die because of the water accumulation, but his Neon did.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:17

Bad hesitation - like, 1 million mile U-haul van hesitation, and incredibly bad slipping into gears. if it's just a bit of hesitation or slipping, change the fluid and filter.

StoneCold > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
10/21/2014 at 20:19

Gotcha.

Thank you!

Kinja'd!!!

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:22

No problem. Also, fun fact: the Neon I4's architecture is used in the 2002-2006 Mini.

StoneCold > cayman2007
10/21/2014 at 20:23

Thank you!

Kinja'd!!!

AthomSfere > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:26

As an enthusiast, I can't remember them being bad at all. Compared to a similarly aged Focus these were phenomenal budget cars. No strange rattles or plastic trim issues, reliable.

I guess the real test though:

If I had a budget of ~$2500 and found this with a manual and those miles: I can't see a reason to say no.

JGrabowMSt > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:41

SL60 AMG

kincai28 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:47

Yes but that is also 4 years newer. Maybe prices are higher over there but Sentras are dirt cheap here in the Midwest.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:53

Please skip any Neon that has the horrible 3 speed auto box. Yes, you read that correctly: THREE SPEED AUTOMATIC. Not that the 4 speed is any better (later models), but transverse Chrysler automatics aren't exactly known for reliability.

The rest of the car seems to hold up well, mainly because there aren't that many things on it which actually go wrong. Main thing is rust, but you know that already. Keep up on the maintenance and it should be serviceable for a while as a daily car.

Decay buys too many beaters > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 20:57

You know how someone said it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow? They never drove a Neon. I did manage to have a bit of fun when I took one to a rallycross and then gave it a viking funeral (that means it lit on fire)

It's OK if all you want is an a to b car, but there are much better options (anything Japanese from the era)

StoneCold > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/21/2014 at 21:15

I had the same 4 speed auto in my '94 LeBaron, so I am familiar with it.

I'll be keeping tabs on it while I can.

cayman2007 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 21:42

Those hips!!!!!!

wontacceptthis > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 21:53

Because its outclassed by every $2500 japanese car, boringish volkswagen, and mid sized car out there. Its probably not a bad car. It just wasn't very good to start with. I love me some mopar, but this is likely more than a little card-boardy.

Pre-1981 Dodge 2wd trucks turn me on.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 23:07

Kinja'd!!!

OH GODS NO THEY CLONED MY CAR!!! (no really, that's all exactly the same as mine, right down to the year and radio option)

Alright here's my advice, although it's really more of a loose collection of random thoughts and facts:

In all seriousness at least take it for a test drive. From what I've heard, half of the Neons were lemons and the other half were rock-solid. I've had mine for three years and haven't put in any parts more expensive than some $20 suspension bushings*, but at the same time I've heard horror stories from others about things like wheels falling off. Do your best to determine which kind that one is before buying.

They're a blast to drive, not as good as a first gen car but much more refined all around.

That's an SXT model, so it's got all the goodies like the white face gauges and the body colored interior bits, as well as a remote trunk release probably. There's also 7-speed intermittent wipers which is unexpected in a cheap car. It should also have a passive security system (good for insurance), I can tell you that the keys for mine are chipped and there's an alarm button on the remote.

The 2002's were known for having weird auto trans gearing, but its not that bad really. Mine either burn or leaks ATF at a slow rate but I don't know if that's a problem for all cars or just mine.

*Check the vertical control arm bushings as well as the rear strut tower bushings, they're known for crapping out early.

It's great on the highway, the curvy shape and relatively long wheelbase keep it more stable than you'd expect such a small car to be. The doors are double sealed too so wind noise isn't bad.

Expect 26-33 mpg from the Automatic depending on driving habits

Interior space is amazing, I'm 6' tall and can sit in the rear seat quite easily, and in the front I have a good 3-4" of headroom.

You probably shouldn't buy a Neon newer than 2002 because a) they're ugly and b) Chrysler started decontenting and skimping on quality to keep them being the cheapest new car in the country

I can tell you right now that that one pictured is suffering from the fog-light-lenses-fell-off plague that affects these cars. Expect to drop $80 on replacement units.

Those snowflakes are some of the best wheels put on any car ever.

If you want more info consult Allpar's review of this exact car.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 23:08

Are you in boulder?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > JGrabowMSt
10/21/2014 at 23:11

Parking brake: squealing and refusing to stay adjusted even after a drum rebuild?

JGrabowMSt > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
10/21/2014 at 23:16

Just the parking brake adjustment. Probably needs a whole new cable, but I'm about to sell the car in a couple weeks. It's only really an issue in my girlfriends driveway, so it isn't something I really need to worry about.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > JGrabowMSt
10/21/2014 at 23:19

Mine's just about useless and I can't figure out why.

JGrabowMSt > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
10/21/2014 at 23:22

On my girlfriends driveway, I have to yank the parking brake all the way up, and throw the car into reverse otherwise it will not stay in her driveway. I generally park in reverse without bothering to use the parking brake. The cable stretches really easily. For a long time, the parking brake light didn't work, so you can imagine the smell that would occur when I did use it. My house and my work parking lot are flat ground, so no issue there. I also tend to park sideways in my girlfriends driveway so I don't have to worry about it.

Oh well....

BigBlock440 > StoneCold
10/21/2014 at 23:34

I always wanted to do a big block A-body, but after blowing mine up, I realized small blocks are much easier to find and cheaper to buy. And with the power you can get out of a small block these days, there's almost no point to doing it. Especially when you have to do any kind of work under the hood.

StoneCold > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
10/21/2014 at 23:43

No, but a good friend of mine is. I'm stuck in the middle of Illinois.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > StoneCold
10/22/2014 at 00:47

It seems all the good cars are in thornton and greeley

Aaron James > StoneCold
10/22/2014 at 10:56

I know I'm a day late but I had a 95 Neon with a stick and between my brother and I we put over 250k miles on it. I bought it with 20k miles and did have to have the head gasket replaced but Chrysler had fixed that problem with a better gasket long before the 00's. After the head gasket neither one of us had any problems with it and only did routine maintenance (plugs wires, Timing belt/water pump twice, brakes and so forth. When I got it back from my brother the rear strut hats (rubber mount that has the bolts on top to mount to the strut tower) had failed so I replaced them. It was still running great and on it's first clutch (I think, my brother may have changed it but I can't recall him ever mentioning it) when I gave to my brother-in-law to turn into a 4cyl class race car for our local track. (he never got around to it but the car still runs it's just not being used). I'd still have it but I was going through a Divorce and had 4 cars so it didn't make sense to keep all of them. I've heard horror stories about them but I absolutely loved mine and it always got me where I needed to go.

doodon2whls > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
10/22/2014 at 22:13

Not exactly.... just the 1.6l engine which Chrysler powertrain doods developed in a joint venture....

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > doodon2whls
10/23/2014 at 09:54

Yeah, just the basic principles of the neon engine made it into the Mini, but it's still interesting. That engine also made it into the EUDM Neon.