Reason # e654x9587 why I will never move to California

"CAR_IS_MI" (car-is-mi)
10/17/2014 at 19:57 • Filed to: None

California Gov. Jerry Brown signed into law the first test of mileage-based road taxes in the Golden State. The bill, which passed the state legislature with the backing of transit agencies, environmental groups and most major automakers, creates a 15-person panel to oversee a pilot of pay-by-the-mile taxation by 2018.

I will not pay you per mile I drive, it's an illogical system. Get bent CA.

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DISCUSSION (60)

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 19:59

10 letters why I'll never move to California. C.A.L.I.F.O.R.N.I.A.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:04

Eh, depends. I only put like 3k miles on one of my cars this year, so points. Except that car would never be legal in California in the first place so...

Decay buys too many beaters > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:08

Doesn't bother me one bit if they instituted a pay by mile system ('bout time the electric car folks had to pay too!), but then I only drive 3.26 miles to and from work.

That being said, I sure as hell will never submit to putting a government GPS tracker in my vehicle. Besides, it would probably drain the motorcycle battery I use in my FR-S as weight reduction overnight.

Snooder87 > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:09

Lol. So California, land of the 2 hour commute to LA and San Francisco is going to force people who live in the suburbs to pay more taxes?

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Snooder87
10/17/2014 at 20:13

Yep... I drive around 60 miles a day, so this would complete screw me over...

JGrabowMSt > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:15

Joining the likes of Virginia I see.

I raise you a one-finger solute! One less place I have any will to move to or live in for any extended period of time.

My commute is 3 miles each way. I might have the itch to just get in my car and drive for 60 miles though, just because I want to drive.

If I drive through the C.A., do I have to pay still, or can I simply drive through?

JasonStern911 > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:18

Fucking stupid. First, gasoline taxes are inherently a "pay by the mile" tax. Second, if the funds from gasoline taxes are declining, increase the gasoline tax - don't spend millions of dollars that states supposedly don't have on gasoline pump renovations and GPS tracking devices.

D > Decay buys too many beaters
10/17/2014 at 20:24

I hear about people swapping batteries.. just for my education, what are your typical weight savings over a standard one?

deekster_caddy > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:34

I don't live in CA. I'm not a fan of this model, but I also drive a Volt and no longer contribute as much through gas taxes. I went from 14 MPG to 100 MPG. I don't mind paying my share for road maintenance as long as it's collected fairly, so I hope they keep it reasonably low. It's not fair in many other ways, especially for those who drive out of state a lot. That said, maintaining roads and bridges is a huge money suck.

I guess they are scared of EVs taking over the world!

CAR_IS_MI > deekster_caddy
10/17/2014 at 20:49

And I could see if this was an EV only kind of thing to level the playing field, but now gas / diesel drivers will have to pay CA's already outrageous gas taxes (2nd highest in the country) as well as a per mile tax. Thanks but no thanks. I drive between 15 - 20k miles per year so this would not work for me.

CAR_IS_MI > JasonStern911
10/17/2014 at 20:51

CA can't increase the gas tax any more. They already have the 2nd highest gas tax in the country and the highest fuel cost (excluding some remote areas of Alaska). Add it into the fact that they have some of the highest state and local sales taxes and a good sized state income tax...

ranwhenparked > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:53

Why don't they just to this?:

A) figure out how much money they need per year to maintain the roads that isn't provided from some other source (eg. federal handouts)

B) divide that amount by the number of vehicles registered, charge that much for annual registration

C) get rid of state gas taxes and forget the mileage tax

CAR_IS_MI > Snooder87
10/17/2014 at 20:53

Exactly. This only effects the people who choose to work inside the city but want to live outside the city. People who are driving 2-3 miles a day to work are like whatever, but the guy who lives outside of the city either because of quality of life, safety, or costs now has to pay more to get to the job thats probably providing just enough to get by on.

CAR_IS_MI > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver
10/17/2014 at 20:54

Yea, I put 0 miles on one of my cars this year (its still broken)... But I also put about 15,000 on one and 1100 on another...

CAR_IS_MI > ranwhenparked
10/17/2014 at 20:56

because you would end up paying $2000 / yr to register your $1500 Toyota.

ranwhenparked > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 20:57

You either pay it all at once or piecemeal at the pump. I'd rather write one check at the beginning of the year than get taxed every time I fill the tank.

CAR_IS_MI > ranwhenparked
10/17/2014 at 21:00

But people would complain thats unfair for me and you to get charged the same % when I drive 15k / yr and you only drive 3k / yr. Or in other words, you pay 5x more per mile you drive than I do.

JasonStern911 > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:05

Kinja'd!!!

Trust me, they could increase the gas tax significantly and still be comparable to the rest of the world.

Conan > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:08

None of us will ever move to California now but lots of us should fly there for the used deals that will be on the way!

CAR_IS_MI > JasonStern911
10/17/2014 at 21:08

the US as a whole, yes, but CA is at the top of this list (per state), so if they went more it would likely end in riots.

RallyWrench > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:09

So you don't want cars that don't use gasoline to pay for road infrastructure they use? Because that's what our (CA) gas tax does. It's only a test anyway, because no one knows if this will work. But if we don't change something, the increasing number of EVs mean a decrease in available funding for roadworks.

CAR_IS_MI > RallyWrench
10/17/2014 at 21:11

So you're okay with being double taxed? You pay gas tax AND a per mile tax.

JasonStern911 > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:14

So raising the gas tax would cause riots, but being forced to pay to have your driving habits monitored by the government is acceptable? Weird state.

Maybe if California wouldn't divert gas tax funds, or give tax credits for electric vehicles they now claim are robbing them of tax revenue, they wouldn't be in this mess...?

Vee Ate Injun > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:16

annoying to live here at times, yes (like when I have to smog my barely-legal 1979 classic car), but it's worth the price of admission to enjoy the rich abundance of car porn here.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/l-a-area-car-e…

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/photo-dump-fer…

When was the last time you saw a Veyron out in the wild? I've seen three. How about a Pagani? Your pick: Zonda or Huayra (I've seen both). Or maybe a perfect reproduction of the 1989 Batmobile? check.

Also plenty of great enthusiast driving roads - it's not all bumper-to-bumper traffic here. (Related: the weather, to enjoy said driving roads all year long)

(Regarding taxing by the mile... Yeah, that's annoying. Here's hoping it fails!)

CAR_IS_MI > Vee Ate Injun
10/17/2014 at 21:18

There are two Veyrons within an 1/8th mile of my house...

RallyWrench > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:18

No, but that's why it has to be explored & tested first, which is what this is. We don't know where the balance lies. Nonetheless, the current model is unsustainable in the long term if they want to maintain funding, so at least we're trying something.

promoted by the color red > Vee Ate Injun
10/17/2014 at 21:20

I see enough Ferraris and Bentleys on my daily commute that they barely register.

OK, I do notice the Ferraris...

Vee Ate Injun > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:21

we're neighbors?! COOL. Let's hang out!

Anywho, you know what I'm sayin.

(Think I'll stop by the weekly classic car show on my way home tonight)

promoted by the color red > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:21

This is just election year lip service. I'll believe it when I see it.

CAR_IS_MI > RallyWrench
10/17/2014 at 21:22

All of California is unsustainable in the long run, but that's not because there is a lack of incoming funds, it's because California's funds have misappropriated for years and years and years.

Vee Ate Injun > promoted by the color red
10/17/2014 at 21:26

yeah, I know what you mean. But here there really is something for everyone, beyond the showroom-fresh prancing horses. From obscure classics to "how the heck did they legally import that?"

ranwhenparked > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:27

Maybe the equitable thing would be to have certain mileage ranges with a different flat fee for each, eg 0-10,000; 10,001-20,000; 20,001+. Of course, then you'd have to deal with what would happen if you exceeded your driving limit for the year. Oops, you hit 10,000 miles in September, no more driving for the next 3 months.

CAR_IS_MI > ranwhenparked
10/17/2014 at 21:28

too many holes for people to attempt to exploit.

ranwhenparked > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:34

Well, obviously, every married couple would have to have a standard mileage allowance they could deduct from that amount, with additional allowances for each child. And you would get mileage credits for any driving done for charitable purposes and any un-reimbursed business mileage on a personal vehicle.

Dsscats > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:35

Pay by the mile? Oh FUCK no. I drive 40 miles a day......

promoted by the color red > Vee Ate Injun
10/17/2014 at 21:38

I know. I spotted a Citroen-Maserati SM, a Lancia Montecarlo, and a Ferrari 458 today.

CAR_IS_MI > ranwhenparked
10/17/2014 at 21:38

What if you drive outside the state...

CAR_IS_MI > Dsscats
10/17/2014 at 21:40

Yea bro, time for you to GTFO. And I mean that in the nicest of ways.

ranwhenparked > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:42

That's a potential problem with the pay per mile system too. I guess track your out of state mileage and apply to get it credited back, but make sure to keep any out of state gas station receipts to prove your case.

Dsscats > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 21:49

Maybe Colorado? I like it there. But rust :(. And not that many expensive cars :(.

California is fucking amazing for car enthusiasts, except for smog and this shit.

CAR_IS_MI > Dsscats
10/17/2014 at 22:02

Yea but if CA continues down this war path with gas vehicles who knows how long that will last.

Dsscats > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 22:03

It's a Tesla/Prius conspiracy. But seriously, the cost of living is getting fucking ridiculous here.

deekster_caddy > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 22:07

Right, they also need to lower the gas taxes to match if they are really going through with this. I bet they aren't...

CAR_IS_MI > Dsscats
10/17/2014 at 22:07

I honestly love CA but the cost of living and all the excess taxes is what keeps me away.

deekster_caddy > ranwhenparked
10/17/2014 at 22:09

They probably don't fund the entire road maintenance budget through gas taxes alone. Money coming in and going out is very very complicated. Plus a lot of people can't afford that annual hit all at once. It's easier on the tiny wallet to pay as you go.

deekster_caddy > Decay buys too many beaters
10/17/2014 at 22:13

As a Volt driver, I have no problem paying my share of road use taxes. But the need to keep it fair, and reduce the gas tax accordingly. Also include some way (without fraud) for people to claim miles driven out of state.

ranwhenparked > deekster_caddy
10/17/2014 at 22:17

I believe the gas tax was originally intended, in part, to induce people to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles. Sort of a sin tax. Now, its working, and they need to replace the money.

Dsscats > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 22:19

I....I just don't know. Hard decisions man, hard decisions.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > CAR_IS_MI
10/17/2014 at 22:53

What a waste of a perfectly good state.

deekster_caddy > ranwhenparked
10/18/2014 at 00:13

True. It's also more recent years that fuel efficient vehicles no longer mean the puniest, cheapest thing on the road, there are efficient vehicles that people actually want. Plus gas prices climbing more and more, and budgets getting tighter and tighter have driven buying decisions. I've always wondered why gas taxes weren't a percent of the price, similar to sales taxes. As gas prices go up, so does your tax income, without people crying out about an increase!

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > CAR_IS_MI
10/18/2014 at 01:18

Shitt....my dad drives 30k miles a year....

punksmurph > CAR_IS_MI
10/18/2014 at 03:06

So I live here in California and I have been following this for a while and let me tell you how people see this working. You see California has wanted to do yearly vehicle inspections for a while now, since cars don't rust we get a lot of shit cars on the road. This would help us eliminate some of the dangerous vehicles here, like the guy in the slammed Honda who had is entire front suspension fail right in front of my car and come to an instant grinding halt. To get your Odometer reading registered you would go to any Smog station to get your car certified and you mileage sent to the DMV. Then when you get your renewal notice it will include your usage tax. This could be enough for all cars to replace the gas tax altogether to help keep the overall cost of living from skyrocketing. All cars would have to pay, so now electric car owners would chip in their fair share. We have the highest ownership rate of electric cars, 40% of all US EV and PHEV are here in California. Using the smog stations would be brilliant as many people already need to visit them every couple years and they are rather plentiful.

The alternative would be for the insurance companies to have to register your mileage every years. Every car in California needs to have insurance so if you have a car you have an insurance company, and they can do the work for the DMV. This would have a negative side effect of driving up insurance costs but it might be made up because now people can't lie about their mileage and pay the proper rates. Not likely though.

I do not see the DMV putting on GPS trackers or special devices, that would be a huge privacy issue and people would not stand for it. We have so many tech literate people here that the idea of a GPS device would die after we vote out the whole government at election time.

orcim > Dsscats
10/18/2014 at 04:02

Try HI for really fucking ridiculous. Separate from real estate, I regularly pay >$4.10 at the pump, $.42/kwh and $7.50/gal of propane. Plus food is about 140% more. Not to mention the 4% General Excise tax on any transaction - import, wholesale, retail and each transaction pays.

Of course, there's hardly anyplace to drive here, so.. there's that. But I have to admit, with all the regulations and taxes, CA is still a pumping economy. High tax hasn't killed growth there.

CAR_IS_MI > punksmurph
10/18/2014 at 10:51

Don't you already have to SMOG every year? and if not, that just seems like the simple answer.

bhardoin > CAR_IS_MI
10/18/2014 at 11:00

I totally prefer this. I drive 4000 miles a year, and I'd way prefer to just pay based on mileage than let all the EVs and Priuses around me skirt road payments. Either way the roads have to get paid for, what makes this tax any worse?

CAR_IS_MI > bhardoin
10/18/2014 at 12:52

Becasue its not an either or. Its an additional tax. so you, the gas vehicle driver, pays gas tax AND a per mile fee.

Tohru > ranwhenparked
10/18/2014 at 15:16

Because this would so brutally butt-fuck the poor that even trying to describe the scene would be too gruesome for words.

Since the poor wouldn't be able to afford to pay $950 to register their $1200 Civic they drive to a $9/hr. job, they'd have to drive unregistered. When they'd get caught for that, then they get hit with driving an unregistered vehicle and have it impounded... which they can't pay to get out of impound because they're fucking poor.

AND BEFORE YOU DARE TO SAY USE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION THEY DON'T FUCKING HAVE BUSES AND TRAINS EVERYWHERE LIKE JAPAN SO THAT SHIT DON'T WORK HERE.

punksmurph > CAR_IS_MI
10/18/2014 at 16:30

I only smog every 2 years for cars that are 5 years and older. So if you buy your car in 2014 your first smog is 2019. All of these shops have equipment that connects directly to the DMV and lying gets them in deep trouble so many will be honest about it.

mike in So Cal > ranwhenparked
10/18/2014 at 18:51

except theres nothing stopping the oil companies from raising the price of gas to make up for the no longer paid pump tax...

bhardoin > CAR_IS_MI
10/18/2014 at 20:36

Isn't that still an improvement over the "i pay all of it and electrics pay none" gas tax? Either way, road maintenance is gong to cost everyone the same amount of money, this just changes how the taxpayers all split that cost.