At what point do we lock down international air travel?

"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
10/14/2014 at 13:08 • Filed to: None

I'm no expert on the subject, but it seems like we shouldn't be letting anyone into this country who has visited the whole of Africa in the past month with the way Ebola is now popping up.

Yes, I get that there are american citizens abroad, but why not cover their expenses and a hotel until their infection status is confirmed.

Yes, i get that this may come off as cruel, uncultured and unsympathetic to those infected, But for the greater good we should probably limit travel.

I mean Christ, it still stands as law that that the US government can intern a group people against their will if they pose a threat to the safety of the country, and 15 or so people with Ebola pose a real danger to this country unlike the Japanese-American population interned in the 40's. (Yes its still good law, look up Korematsu v U.S.)

Like I said, I'm no expert. Just my thoughts. Feel free to share yours.

DISCUSSION (24)

Grindintosecond > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 13:13

If you visit a farm, customs want to talk to you. That's just travelling between US and CAN.

As Du Volant > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 13:19

Kinja'd!!!

Rico > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 13:19

Part of the problem is there are rarely direct flights from Africa and almost everyone has to connect to a flight in Europe making it super hard to determine who's coming from the region.

Here's my take on the guy from Liberia. He just helped his landlord's pregnant daughter get to a hospital where they turned her away because of lack of space. He knew he was exposed and the reason he lied was to get out of Liberia where he too would be turned away and get to the US where they will do everything they can to cure him. His plan backfired because he was turned away the first time and the virus quickly took over.

jariten1781 > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 13:21

Nah, restrict travel from known hot zones...maybe but all of Africa...not even close to that point.

Remember, the regular old flu/pneumonia will kill ~50k people in the US this year alone vs Ebola having killed <5000 people in the history of the world ever.

Sweet Trav > Rico
10/14/2014 at 13:23

Passports get stamped...

William Byrd > jariten1781
10/14/2014 at 13:23

Yep

The media is sensationalizing it (shocker) and put into context, it's not a national crisis or anything.

Sweet Trav > As Du Volant
10/14/2014 at 13:24

Im not saying shut down everything, I just ask what's the tipping point

Rico > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 13:25

Hmm, you got me there.

Gamecat235 > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 13:29

Korematsu is... not exactly "good" law, as it has been challenged and was technically upheld, but under very questionable circumstances (which still could change). I would hesitate to use Korematsu as the basis for legally enforcing quarantine. Just because it has not officially been overturned (yet) does not mean that it will successfully be used as case law in the future.

Setting up rules which restrict movement will lead to more people lying or trying to avoid the standard, controllable channels. Fortunately, Ebola is relatively hard to transmit (in comparison to many other infectious diseases), and ruling travel from the entirety of Africa off limits would be a political, and legal, nightmare.

user314 > As Du Volant
10/14/2014 at 13:29

Beat me to it.

Kinja'd!!!

Milky > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 13:35

I love this clip (start at 1:55 if kinja isn't nice).

Sweet Trav > Gamecat235
10/14/2014 at 13:49

I would say that in the case of a global pandemic is the ONLY situation in which to use precedent like Korematsu.

While it is a hard test to meet, I don't disagree with the strict scrutiny test used by the court in this case. I'd much rather the court share a test with visible and transparent decision making as opposed to this pull a ruling out of thin air and then using cases to back their overtly biased opinion in an Ad-Hoc Russian bazaar manner .

Tohru > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 14:00

When someone coughs in Brazil, obviously. It was right there.

PilotMan > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 14:06

Kinja'd!!!

From Reddit

Gamecat235 > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 14:30

If (this is hypothetical conjecture here) there were a disease which spread with the voracity of, say, measles or even smallpox, but with the deadly effects of a hemorrhagic fever such as Ebola, then an absolute quarantine, using any means up to, and including, Korematsu and/or martial law, would be, ethically, the way to go.

(Apologies for the run on sentence and parenthetical and comma spliced stream of consciousness approach.)

I prefer a completely transparent government and legal process. But unfortunately we are so far beyond that, I'm unsure we'll ever get back without a revolution of sorts.

That all said, we are not at global pandemic levels of concern here. And are relatively unlikely to get there (hopefully) because of the disease in question. Caveat to this, this will get worse before it gets better. Hopefully this serves as a wake up call that many of our health system protections have holes because of the capitalist nature that the process has become.

/rant =)

ETA: I read about infectious diseases for 'fun' in my spare time. I enjoy reading about the response and the approach and learning more about what we do, and do not, understand. This outbreak of Ebola is such that my monitors and notifications for ebola had to be turned off. (Yes I had monitors set up for news stories about ebola, what?)

ETA2: I almost included a note (I deleted it) about the worst of this outbreak being that it will hit the medical community hardest, and we may encounter issues with our Urgent Care / Emergency Room approach for healthcare as the biggest issue, but I figured that this was commonly known common sense type approaches. But maybe it isn't. After seeing this article today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat…

Sweet Trav > Gamecat235
10/14/2014 at 14:38

Do you have a bug-out bag as well? lol

Gamecat235 > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 14:39

Nope. If something like this spreads to the point where panic is appropriate, we're all screwed anyway. =)

Sweet Trav > PilotMan
10/14/2014 at 14:42

I get the jest here, and the underlying fact that these diseases kill more people. however these are not contagious and do kill in an exponential factor.

Sweet Trav > Gamecat235
10/14/2014 at 14:43

Ehh. my parents live in a rural area with a low population density, we can pretty much live off the land for a few months. (well, wood heat, Pond and Forest for game/fish, and we're more or less armed to the teeth)

Gamecat235 > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 14:47

I live in a rather urban/suburban area, and while I have small arms for home protection, we don't have much (kids in the house, one very young). You're much better situated for the event which this won't be, but are afraid that it could become. (I'm forever an optimist, can you tell?)

Sweet Trav > Gamecat235
10/14/2014 at 14:49

I'm an optimist. Just prepared for an event in which optimism will be needed, in abundance.

PilotMan > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 15:39

If any drastic action needs to be taken it should be to help those afflicted and to prevent further cases in Western Africa.

Our bogus news organizations simply need an issue to get people's attention, they are making this a bigger issue than it actually is. A 24 Hour news network needs a whole lot of bullshit to fill the hours of the day.

Sweet Trav > PilotMan
10/14/2014 at 16:04

4500 people isn't exactly what I would call filler man. We can try to help, but I feel that a global containment strategy is much more likely to succeed than the solution modern medicine can offer at this time.

Dusty Ventures > Sweet Trav
10/14/2014 at 19:00

There are businesses and economies that rely on people traveling between the States and west Africa. If that travel is shut down people will be forced to lose their jobs and some of those nations' economies will take a hit. Consider also that since the outbreak started tens of thousands (we may even be north of a hundred thousand now) have flown from West Africa to the U.S., and after all those people we've had a grand total of one case show up from overseas thus far. There are screenings in the airports now for those traveling from West Africa, I'd say for now that's sufficient. I will say I might feel differently if it were an airborne disease.