America vs. Europe

"Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels" (goodspellar) 08/02/2013 at 18:34 • Filed to: None

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I was thinking recently, and I got to wondering, how do Europeans get to doing their stuff without trucks? Here in the US the F150 is the best selling car, and a lot of the cars you see on the road are trucks. In Europe, at least the countries I visited, they are much much rarer.

What the hell do we Americans do that makes us such big truck buyers?

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels 08/02/2013 at 18:38

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I don't think it's anything Americans do that makes them such big truck buyers (or, at least from a Canadian perspective). Rather, I think it is the option to do everything, as well as the way American infrastructure is not harmful to the larger vehicle — unlike Europe — that makes the USA such a big truck market.

I think Europeans get by with vans just as well. They just don't buy them at a large scale.

desertdog5051 > Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels 08/02/2013 at 18:47

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1. Cost of gas.

2. Taxes.

3. Their cities were built a long time ago. Roads are small and narrow.

4. Distances are much shorter. (you could drive across most of Europe in less distance than from NY to CA.)

Just my thoughts, I could be wrong.

nobody > Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels 08/02/2013 at 18:56

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We have to haul around more FREEDOM. /Murica!

Klaus Schmoll > Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels 08/02/2013 at 18:56

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I just don't understand why Americans NEED their trucks. I get that they LIKE them. I also get that sometimes they also USE them to transport something. That will then get wet/and/or stolen from the open bed.

We have our hatchbacks/wagons, smaller vehicles that have surprising interiour space. So that basically every thing you want to get from point A to point B can somehow fit in one of these.

And when we can't fit enough into our regular, every-day cars (moving house or something) we hire a Tranny from Sixt or some other outlet. They are really affordable for a day or two, you can pick one up almost anywhere, and there's no problem if you feel like returning it in another galaxy.

So why live with such a behemoth on a day to day basis, pay for it's drink every day without getting any benefits in terms of driving fun or handling? I'd happily pay the fuel bill for a V8 Miata, but being the only person to commute in an F-250 just because I might do something on the week-end, or maybe the next, or maybe when the weather is a little nicer, or something... How stupid can one be?

BATC42 > Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels 08/02/2013 at 18:59

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We don't have trucks because we don't need them. They are huge, and you know European cities are small. The few Pick-up sold in Europe are what you would call small trucks such as the Ford Ranger (yes we have it, be jealous now), Isuzu D-Max, Mitsubishi L200, Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara, ... and utes like the Dacia Logan Pick-up, some companies offer to modify small vans into Pick-up like this Renault Kangoo :

But we don't need them, because automakers even though they are selling big vans (like the Transit or the Sprinter), they are also selling small vans, which are cars with a cargo area. Here is the example of Renault.

Renault offers different sizes the Kangoo (smallest, pictured above), the Trafic (pictured below) and the Master. Also Nissan is badge-engineering these 3, Opel sells the Trafic and Mercedes-Benz sells a modified version of the Kangoo.

But what's interesting is that those small and medium size van all comes in people carrier version, just like the Transit and Transit connect you get in the states.

So with all that in mind, why would we need trucks ?

Agrajag > nobody 08/02/2013 at 19:08

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It's not so much that it's heavy, but because of its size, cumbersome.

BATC42 > Klaus Schmoll 08/02/2013 at 19:11

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I don't knwo if it's the same thing in the rest of Europe, but in France, we can easily rent a commercial van from any supermarket.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Klaus Schmoll 08/02/2013 at 19:15

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This. Brazil is pretty much the same way, I mean, when you have to carry a lot of stuff, you just squeeze it into a Hatchback and hit the road...

You wouldn't believe the amount of stuff this little fucker above can carry, along with three passengers, on steep uphill roads and with the AC on, and never even feel underpowered or inadequate or cramped.

Even our TrailBlazer wasn't bought to carry things, but people, as the Family's road trips usually involve 6 people (and two guinea pigs), so 7 seats are pretty much essential.

desertdog5051 > Klaus Schmoll 08/02/2013 at 19:18

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I think it is an ingrained cultural thing. We have always been led to believe that bigger=better.

Costs to purchase/fuel have traditionally been low.

I have an F-150 4X4 that I do use for hauling and exploring on off road areas, but not so often anymore. Do I need it? Probably not, since I do not travel for work anymore. But I love the size and room it provides.

It's pretty much a cultural thing. I would guess.

Klaus Schmoll > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 08/02/2013 at 19:24

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That's all and well but remember that the Tipo in 4-door guise was a familiy vehicle. I remember a family who got a Tipo instead of a Mazda 626 because they had just bought a house. Come to think of it, I remember another family who had a Tipo as their sole form of transportation.

Your car isn't exactly SMALL.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Klaus Schmoll 08/02/2013 at 19:33

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Yeah, it's true... I believe it would be a mid size by Euro and Brazilian Standards, and it was Always praised for its space utilization, but I think it would be considered a small car in the US, so...

DailyTurismo > Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels 08/02/2013 at 19:49

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Take a serious look at the trucks on your way home from work (or the bar or where ever it is you spend your days) and count how many are hauling stuff in the bed that couldn't be shoved into a wagon or transit looking vehicle.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise 08/02/2013 at 20:41

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You've nailed it. Lots of non-Americans like to be smug about it, but the simple truth is this:

Everything fits easily (I'm a master at cramming an entire apartment in a Mustang, but that doesn't mean it's enjoyable or a good use of my time), it's always available to you (as a non-truck owner I have to rent or bum the use of one off a friend, and it's not always an expedient use when I'm just trying to move one large, non-important thing one time), they're dead-reliable and easy to work on, and they're cheap (despite the increasing MSRPs, you can still buy them for about as cheap as anything on the market).

There aren't a lot of practical reasons to buy one to have every day, but the biggest advantage is that they make people feel like they always have the option, and there's absolutely nothing in this country that prohibits one from owning and driving a truck on a daily basis in a reasonable manner. I'm not the kind of person that wold own a truck, but I get why people like them and buy them; there's just no reason not to and you always have options.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Klaus Schmoll 08/02/2013 at 20:51

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It's not a matter of necessity, it's a matter of a lack of constraints. They're cheap to buy (you can spend a ton on a truck here, but you can also get them for Focus money), as reliable as any car ever made, and generally very easy to work on. There's also plenty of space here, gas is comparatively cheap, they're ludicrously comfortable to drive these days, they're easy to get lots of people in and out of quickly, and the biggest thing: you always have the option.

No, you don't often need that option, but people find it nice to have. And guess what? If there's no real constraint to having that option, people are going to be wont to give themselves the option. Sure, I was quite good at fitting my entire apartment in my Mustang at one point, but that doesn't mean it's enjoyable. And yes, you can rent trucks when you need them, but that's not always expedient logistically or even a good use. They're also great at transporting strangely shaped items that don't fit nicely in enclosed vehicles. You also don't get run over while merging on the highway, and sure, you can get a Kia Cee'd to tow a caravan, but a truck does it much easier, more comfortably, and without causing a queue.

I know it's so wonderfully European to be smug about Americans and trucks, but the end of the story is that there aren't the kind of constraints here to prohibit truck ownership, and being that large portions of our population are made up of people whose direct ancestors did NEED trucks and use them as trucks and grew up with trucks, it's not really all that difficult to understand why we have a natural proclivity towards them. Furthermore, when you get into the places in America that have some of the urban constraints that most of Europe faces, truck ownership drops dramatically and with good reason. Again, not having the constraint can be just as powerful as having a good reason.

I'm not a truck guy and I don't see myself owning one ever, probably, but the smugness is beyond me. Americans like having the option to be able to do whatever on a whim, and if there's not a good reason to not have the option, then it's really not a giant act of stupidity to own one, it's actually a fairly easily identifiable case of high upside with little downside.

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 08/02/2013 at 21:09

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The same mentality shines through in parts of Canada as well. You won't see many trucks in downtown Toronto, because they just work there, but the rest of Ontario? Yep, they're pretty frequent. Not as frequent as most of the USA, mind you.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise 08/02/2013 at 21:19

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I'd also add that a lot of the natural propensity, constraints or not, for Americans to own pickups is that a lot of folks here aren't that far removed from the country's agricultural roots. Yes, I'm a complete city slicker, and both of my parents grew up in urban/suburban areas, but their parents all grew up on farms (and consequently they spent plenty of time as children visiting relatives out on farms) where trucks are an absolute necessity and are a way of life. When it's something you grow up with and around (certainly not difficult to find, say, here in Texas), it's easy to have some of that nostalgia. Combine that with a lack of reasons not to own one, and it's an easy choice for people to make. Especially in a place like Texas where, even though I live an incredibly urban lifestyle, it's not very far out to places that are decidedly rural and where you could find 300 different uses for a truck that a van or wagon couldn't accomplish.

I'm still not a truck guy, though; that's what friends are for.

Mikeado > Walter Rohrl's Left Foot says save the manuels 08/02/2013 at 21:43

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It's in American culture as much as the muscle car is. We do buy pickups here, but it's mostly builders and other people who need to carry a lot of stuff over what's occasionally rough ground on a regular basis, and actually vans are a much more popular option even for much of that. Everyone else gets an estate and a roof box.

P.S. Given the title, I'm glad this is the subject.