New Year, New Car - but what's the correct choice?

"Saloon_Hoon" (Saloon_Hoon) 12/31/2013 at 13:34 • Filed to: HelpMeOppoYoureMyOnlyHope! CarBuying NeedAdvice

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So here's my first official post on Oppo (that I know of.. I'm sure I've been clicking and pointing all over Oppo before I knew how to use the new blog system..)

Grab a Snickers - this is my attempt at being thorough, It's another 'What's your Oppo-inon thread'

I've got a dilemma... I bought a 2011 STI Sedan 3 years ago and I hate that I love it.

Now I think I need to 'grow up' and get something a little more refined but which isn't the equivalent of an automotive mullet.. (that wing in the back isn't fooling anyone when I say 'but it's a family sedan!')

Having never owned a car of the bratwurst and Nurburgring persuasion, I've been leaning to BMW/Mercedes/VW (the CC is the only VW I'd buy at this moment unless a Phaeton with a trunk lined in 100's happens to be parked nearby)... But I assume upkeep on ze German cars is going to be so money. much expensive. very broke. Granted I've done every bit of wrench work down to a motor swap on a Subaru, so putting in some tool time isn't going to be a problem.

So then I look to the famed reliability of Lexus/Infiniti/Acura... but new or used, I don't plan to spend more than my current kbb of 30k (I'd spend a few K more for the right one, but it'd have to be worth it). And I can't seem to figure which of those is even a good year/model since I know all brands have undergone some refinement in the past few years, I want to be sure I buy something that's updated, not on the cusp of failure (like my 2003 Acura TL-S and it's Transmission-of-death... ask me later, I can elaborate)

So Oppo, I'll finally get to the point - with an assumed 30k in your pocket (from selling the STI) - which of these seems like it could fill the bill of fun, but grown up; reliable but not a bank breaker; and can fit some of the criteria below?

Year Range 2008 and up
Price range 30k +/-
Brands - Anything Import though maybe I'd like a domestic? I have no idea

Audi
- 4-6 Series (S4-6 if I do the whole carmax warranty deal)

BMW
- 3-5 (I'd love to find an 08-09 M5, Always liked those)

Mercedes
- e350 (so far the only Merc I've driven and I liked it)

Acura
- TL, RL, MDX (anything from the 08up range, possibly the TSX in there as well but I'm just not wanting another FWD)

Infiniti
- G37 sedan or coupe?
- M45, dunno, I liked the older ones

Lexus
- is350 or GS I suppose

Jaguar
- can't believe that I can find a 2010-11 XF for 30k at a dealer these days, have to try one out

VW
- the CC R-Line was pretty smooth for a boosted 2.0 with DSG 6sp auto, the nav was uglier than (insert something ugly here)

Here's my vehicular history and some criteria of what I'd plan to do with the car:

93 Acura Vigor GS 5-Sp (yes, I picked a 5 banger straight with 3 pedals for my first car - *pats self on back*)
Honda Del Sol (I was blackout drunk for a few months when I wrecked the Vigor)
Scion xB 1st gen boxy manual (it's practical!)
96 4-Runner (complete with bro lift, bro lights, bro brush guard and lockers)
03 Acura TLs (One of my fav body styles of the TL)
'11 STI (Because I always wanted an off-the-lot-STI Sedan)

.. I'm sure I missed more than a few cars in between and skipped all the bikes on purpose (I'll save it for my RideApart post since it's time to refresh that lineup too)

What I want (to do) with this new car:
Pick Up Chicks. (obviously)
Tow a Small trailer (though a class 2 hitch would be awesome, I hitch mount bicycles and tow my moto trailer)
Get me to the slopes (with room to roof mount or toss in gear depending on how many people I take along)
Carry 4 people (this is a grey area - I've considered a 2+2 coupe or similar since on an average, I don't have more than a single passenger, but when it comes to group outings, I like to drive because I simply hate being a passenger)
Comfortable on the Freeway (I do around 600mi/week, the STI is fine in 6th, but the NVH really wears you down after 2hours when the best you can do is a straight line at 70)
Sunroof (I regret not going limited on the STI for the sunroof. for whatever reason, I've always liked having one)
MPGz? Anything better than the 19 I get out of the STI is fine by me

Hope I didn't kill anyone with all the text!

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 13:44

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The answer to the question that you are asking is Cadillac. Get a used CTS or maybe you might even be able to find a 1 year old ATS in that price range. If you stretch your budget just a little bit you could get a new ATS.

Another option is finding a Titanium Ford Focus which is a fantastic car. Certainly less sporty but incredibly well equipped for a great price and very grown up.

Again on the more practical side what about a Jetta TDI Sportwagen? Haul tons of stuff, great MPG and still have a manual transmission. You can even get it in brown!

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 13:48

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Acura is coming up with a TLX coming next year (which awkwardly would mean like in one day) but it'll probably carry over those really nice headlamps.

I'm personally Lexus biased, love the reliability and the luxury, possibly the GS350 F-Sport? Prices have been lowering quicker than I expected since the first one after the refresh came out a year and a half ago.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 13:50

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Buy a new STI, this time the hatchback model. It has no wing in the back so maybe you'll fool someone.

Saloon_Hoon > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 12/31/2013 at 13:51

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I lol'd geninuinely at TDI Sportwagen, even went to test drive one - I really do want a wagon (thinking AllRoad, or similar) but the majority of the time I'm just hauling me (dare I say it, a Fit would be around the right size if I wanted another hatch, I still have the xB at my disposal when needed however)..

I also really have been looking into Cadillac and Lincoln's new line - we have a '95 Sedan Deville in the family and the depreciation is just the killer (though I'll bet many of the others on my list would depreciate just as hard) - I suppose I forgot to mention that I really want something that's trimmed nice in the interior. The STI's lackluster interior build quality really put me off (I know, I know, you don't buy that car for the interior build, but even the Evo-X was better of that year). I do want something that's got a refined feel to it inside.

Dunno how I feel about Ford - can't say I ever really liked a Ford, save for a few models they've made.

I guess a trip to the Automall is in order, complete with power bars and gatorade on a free weekend.. will have to wear my driving shoes...

Desu-San-Desu > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 13:52

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How about the 2015 WRX? Has even better handling than the outgoing model, the engine is capable of even more power than the outgoing EJ, the interior has been much improved, fuel mileage is up, the exterior styling is a lot less flat-brimmed-boy-racer, and it's still got that legendary AWD system.

Saloon_Hoon > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 12/31/2013 at 13:53

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Yeah I thought of that when I had the option in '11 but I really like sedans and the occasional wagon and hatch - plus the the build quality and ride on the STI don't do it for me anymore - too much NVH from the tires and dash hah

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 13:55

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Hate to sound obvious but would you consider a Saab?

AM3R > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 13:58

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The best answer for you is a 335i. Seriously, you can tune it to be faster than the M3. Great machines and $30k will get you a NICE one. Sedan or coupe, even convertible if that's what you're feeling. Great cars with nice interiors (not audi nice) and the handling is great.

Saloon_Hoon > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna 12/31/2013 at 13:59

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I'll read into that - ironically I haven't followed (new) car news much, I'll have to see about the TLX.

The GS350 has always been a car I liked but never thought I'd be in price range, I'll have to look again!

Jayhawk Jake > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 14:22

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S4 would be my choice

Saloon_Hoon > Jayhawk Jake 12/31/2013 at 14:42

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I'm still kicking myself for having passed on an 08 V10 NA RS4 drop top.. it was within my reach.. (part of the motiv on the STI was having passed on a museum worthy 04).. maybe now it's Audi's turn in my book haha.

The S4 and others on the list embody my 'Businessman's Express' theme of want in a car

Saloon_Hoon > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 12/31/2013 at 14:43

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well yes and no - I started my profession as an Architect so Saab was a natural choice (really, no joke there either lol) but after the company's turmoil I want to want one but I like having a warranty / parts support. Can't say I put much thought into Saab recently

Saloon_Hoon > Desu-San-Desu 12/31/2013 at 14:45

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It's a thought, I'll have to look (esp since insurance will probably still be less than an STI) - but I drove a '14 Forester CVT for a week, and though it's no STI, the CVT trans is something I'll file a restraining order on lol

as for manual, I may have to consider one if I see them pop up around here - haven't yet seen one in person (other than the local news)

Saloon_Hoon > AM3R 12/31/2013 at 14:47

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That's a supremely tempting choice - I like the newer 3's as they're a bit roomier from previous gen's but still have sharp handling with a smooth ride. Seems to strike a balance with wanting a refined ride that doesn't shout 'old' at the same time (like a base e350 would comparitively, though I really like the e350 for it's sheer size and cadillac ride. will have to test it's 'sport' mode)

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 14:50

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Is FWD a limitation? If not, the Focus ST might be fine.

AM3R > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 14:53

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If I had a little more money in the car budget and I was looking for a DD I'd consider an E350 or E550. Really good looking cars. Never driven one but hopefully they have a little more handling capability than most reviewers claim.

If you want more size, why not a 535xi WAGON! or sedan if you want. Both can be had with a 6MT and they can be tuned just like a 335i, which means a wagon That can kill M3's for fun while hauling your bikes.

Rico > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 15:31

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2010 Audi A6 Quattro can be found used for under $30k that would provide ample space, handling, speed, and luxury. It's refined but can definitely move when you put your foot down. 300 hp/ 310 ft., supercharged V6 18/26 mpg. Also can be had in Wagon form but not sure the prices on the Avant.

Saloon_Hoon > AM3R 12/31/2013 at 16:08

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I found many '10-'11 e350's and some select e550's at the 30k mark, my issues with them are depreciation curve, maintenance, insurance - I'll have to re-look at the 535xi, last I looked was at bmw and they're well above 30k lol, though a cpo/preowned would be nice to check out. When I test drove the e350, I took it down the street, on and off a freeway with some decent ramps; it had a plush ride and not entirely planted feel but this was in the dark where I didnt have a chance to find the sport button (but succeeded in finding the SOS button on the headliner instead lol)

Saloon_Hoon > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 12/31/2013 at 16:10

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fwd isn't a limitation, I figure I went fwd>awd now might be a chance to try a rwd for fun - there's a current gen focus here at my office and a few ST's I've seen in nearby lots... it's tempting to look at but I'd say Ford was the only brand I haven't really explored buying into (maybe it's the run in's with their panther platform cars lol)

Brian Silvestro > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 16:14

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Fucking Jaguar Bro! The XF is easily the most underrated car in it's class. People never consider a Jaguar for some reason. 10/10 would buy one.

If not, the S6 is a close second. Stay away from the E60 M5 (Forbidden fruit) maintenance is supposedly a nightmare.

Saloon_Hoon > Rico 12/31/2013 at 16:15

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All of that is sounding like a winner (as was the S4 comment here too) - Right now after reading current input I'm in this order:

Audi - S4/6 or A4/6 (an S8 would be a bit much but heck in the 30k range if I found one... well..)
Merc e350 - I still really like this one, though I'd have to return in person to see it in the day
Lexus/Infiniti - haven't heard any suggestions for the latter but theyre in the same category for me to browse
can't discount BMW - the're along w/Audi honestly. I know enough bmw owners who've wrenched on their own that I'd feel I have some local support in maintaining one as well...

Saloon_Hoon > Brian Silvestro 12/31/2013 at 16:21

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haha yes! I was hoping for at least one vote on the XF - I haven't even sat in one to know I'd like it. all the flash of the interior, power under the bonnet, rwd, luxury class interior - I definitely plan to look into one more seriously. Didnt know about the e60 M5 being a handful, but then again I've always heard bmw's tend to be a little more peculiar

Brian Silvestro > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 16:29

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If you can find one with the newer light fixtures (pictured above) for around $30k I say go for it. It looks one thousand times better then the pre facelift, and in person it's drop dead gorgeous. Try to avoid the Naturally aspirated V8's though, I'd say go for the Supercharged V6 instead.

AM3R > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 16:32

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Haha I'm gonna have to test drive an E550 as soon as I get the chance. A quick search found a 535xi wagon for $30k. Many are available for less. This ones slightly modified but I don't think it's too bad

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 17:15

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I understand it. If you're that tempted, the ST has little to nothing to do with the Panthers in terms of generic design. It wasn't even developed by the same people. There's word that Ford will have an all-wheel-drive Focus RS between 2014 and 2015 but if so I doubt it'll be under US$30,000 when it reaches that shore. If you're really looking into RWD, I'd suggest a Pontiac G8. If not, the ST has all of my approval.

Saloon_Hoon > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 12/31/2013 at 17:41

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that's good to know and look out for- i'll have to read into the st's evolution this year. seeing as I'd want to sell the sti and pick up something soon, I'll have to look at the current crop (and follow up on the vote for the G8 - I didn't think you could get one new anymore but I'll look for good used models too)

Bob Sacamano > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 18:41

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I wish you well, I too was in the same dilemma with a '12 STI. I ended up selling it as it just sat in the garage and I never drove it. I decided to get the equity out of it for upgrade parts on another car and a higher MPG car for the long drive to work.

Concerning the price: No matter where I took the car I couldn't get more than $31K for it on a trade. It was stock with the BBS's and factory options. Unless you have the leather, nav and under ~18K miles (miles on my car) I think you will be more likely to get under $30K closer to $28. This is close to the $30K number you used, but I wanted to save you from the insult feeling you get when they lowball you. I was very upset with the dealerships at first because the KBB trade in on the car was $32.5 and it's in absolutely excellent condition. They just listed it online at $35K, which upset me at first, but after 10 seconds I laughed cause new STI's sell for less.

Good luck with your search! - Oh and get a Cadillac CTS or the ATS, you can get AWD - if you live in the snowy states - and with tint / wheels they look awesome and drive nice with lower maintenance costs.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Saloon_Hoon 12/31/2013 at 19:11

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My mother was coming from two CTS and was looking at a Allroad and I had to drag her kicking and screaming to look at the Ford Fusion (which is what I meant, not the focus) and she ended up loving it and buying one. It's hard to get over a perception of a badge but the top of the line Fusions are really really nice.

Rico > Saloon_Hoon 01/01/2014 at 02:32

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Shit about the A4/S4 is that it's not all that spacious and an A6 in Quattro form provides enough power and it can be tuned to give you a little more kick. A6 is about as spacious as an E class. I've never sat in an STI to compare the room though.

911e46z06 > Saloon_Hoon 01/02/2014 at 02:07

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If you can find an extra 10 grand I'd go with an SS. I'll probably be buying one as soon as I can come to terms with the fact that I can't DD the M3. It's great to drive. Goes like hell, and even handles shockingly well when you want it to. But it's nice and composed and easy to drive like a normal, responsible human person.

Saloon_Hoon > 911e46z06 01/02/2014 at 11:43

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I've always considered DD'ng an M3 - why would you say you can't/wouldn't?

Maybe my head's a little scrambled from new years, but SS? as in Super Sport? sorry, coffee's kicking in a bit slow today haha

As for DD'ng, That's definitely the point of this car purchase, comfortable dd with some power/fun factor and still practical to own for the next 5 or so years (or longer). I like to think I buy a car for the long haul, but everytime I've switched up it's been because the car gave up on me somehow and I didn't want to risk it again

Saloon_Hoon > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 01/02/2014 at 11:45

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I think that's really it - the perception of the badge - they were (growing up) not the brand that was ever deemed as quality in my circles. They're known for power or comfort but not both (until now as I understand)

Saloon_Hoon > Rico 01/02/2014 at 11:47

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I'd say the STI and A/S4 are the same in terms of space. 2 adults in the back at most, the third wouldn't want to be there long lol. Decent leg room with 2 adults up front as well.

Saloon_Hoon > Bob Sacamano 01/02/2014 at 11:52

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Thanks for the reply! I was hoping to hear from another STI owner - I hear you on the trade in cost. I'm rounding to 30 though I agree it' probably be closer to 28. Private party sale is around 30-31 and mine is of that quality I'd imagine. A few tasteful upgrades (Sway bars, some bushings, short shift and a set of forged bbs' instead of the oem enkeis)

as for awd - though I don't need it save for a few trips to tahoe in the winter, I honestly have enjoyed the planted feel that awd provides vs fwd that I've been used to. Though now is an opportunity to go rwd for once as well. I'm sure I'll be posting up when a decision is made (soon I hope)

Saloon_Hoon > Brian Silvestro 01/02/2014 at 11:55

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I've been doing a bit of search on the cars.com app to see what 30k will get me - I've seen nearly every trim level within that range for '10 and up at around 30-50k on them. Even more surprising is an I4 Turbo offering though I can hardly imagine it has the trademark sound of a Jag... I'll definitely look into the SC V6 (saw 1 for sale), curious as to why avoid the V8?

I'll hopefully drop in to Jag this evening if I get a chance...

911e46z06 > Saloon_Hoon 01/02/2014 at 14:02

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Yeah, the new sedan. Basically a G8 GXP. It's pretty much the perfect DD as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking at the CTS too, which is also very good, but it's hard to pay 20 grand more for a turbo V6 over an N/A V8.

The M3 is a problem just because I'm an overgrown 9 year old. It begs to be hooned and I don't have the self control to resist. So the law is kinda upset with me.

Saloon_Hoon > 911e46z06 01/02/2014 at 14:09

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I've seen a few votes for the G8 - really tempting, will have to see the interior in person to get a feel of it. That v8 will be great for highway cruises though.

that m3 problem is my issue with the STI - it loves that upper rev range but I can't possibly keep out of the sights of the red and blues with that attitude. Plus I want a quieter / enjoyable interior

911e46z06 > Saloon_Hoon 01/02/2014 at 14:18

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The SS interior is really nice. It's not all sleek and flashy like a caddy or bimmer, but it's classy and comfy. Only issue I have is that you can't get it without the infotainment screen. I'm a knobs and buttons kind of guy.

It's pretty much impossible to find a G8 GXP for sale, and you won't save that much money. I'd also take the SS because it doesn't have the boy racer look. It's a bit more grown up.

Go drive one. They're on the lots. I took one out a few weeks ago.

Brian Silvestro > Saloon_Hoon 01/02/2014 at 18:24

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I haven't heard anything to really support it, but it's the same V8 from the range rovers, and those are really unreliable. The V6 is a newer and more sophisticated engine.

Saloon_Hoon > Brian Silvestro 01/02/2014 at 18:28

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that's something I didn't know.. hmm will keep that in mind for sure! maybe time to hit the forums. In the meantime I'll be prepping the car and hopefully have it listed this weekend

Brian Silvestro > Saloon_Hoon 01/02/2014 at 18:30

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I have very limited knowledge, these are just hunches. Hitting the forums is a must.

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > Saloon_Hoon 01/12/2014 at 00:10

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If you're JDM AS FUCK YO! From the Goo net exchange has plenty.