My brother's car hunt: and then there were two (Oppo insight request at the bottom)

"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
09/16/2020 at 13:00 • Filed to: None

At the start of August I mentioned !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! due to a catastrophic engine failure (15 psi compression, woo!). I mentioned the initial contenders were the Civic, the Elantra GT, the Forte, the Mazda 3, the Impreza/Crosstrek, and variations of the Golf. Courtesy of Oppo suggestions the Corolla/iM hatch was also added to the list. Briefly.

Wordy recap ahead. If you want to go straight to me asking for advice again skip to the bottom.

The initial list of contenders was whittled down quickly. The Civic was axed as the only trim that comes with heated seats (mandatory) requires premium gas. The 3, Crosspreza, iMrolla, and Golf hatch were dropped for insufficient cargo space (the GTI was doubly eliminated due to the aforementioned premium gas). That left the Elantra, the Forte (which is stupidly rare), and the wagon versions of the Golf. So that’s where we started.

The first car my brother drove was an Elantra GT N-Line. He absolutely loved it, leaving the test drive giddy. The one he drove was a new 2020 model and well above what he wanted to spend, but he still nearly bought it on the spot. He told me it was a good thing we had somewhere else we needed to be that day !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! or he might have done it.

Following this the hunt for a used N-Line began. This, by the way, is hard. The nearest one, and the only one for sale under 20 grand, was 800 miles away in Michigan. After some deliberating and pricing out auto transports my brother decided to send someone in the area to have a look, with a PPI and hopefully a sale to follow shortly after. Two days before our guy could go look at it the car sold. D’oh.

Sent back to square one my brother’s attention turned to the wagon variants of the Golf. The all wheel drive and additional cargo space of the Alltrack and 4Motion Sportwagen called to him, so we started focusing on those. The first one we went to was !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! My brother called the dearship and scheduled a time to go down and see the car. The main photo in the ad had me a bit concerned about just what kind of dealership we were going to, but I held my tongue and we headed down.

My suspicions ended up being right, the dealership and the lot attendant (can’t say sales person because he had zero interest in selling anything) felt like they were pulled from Jersey Shore. As for the car, when we started it up it immediately let us know the left rear tire was low on air. Further investigation showed that while three tires still had very good tread, the left front was at the wear bars. In addition to the tire issues, the rear windshield wiper was missing, as was the nut to hold the spare tire in place. Meanwhile, the person my brother had scheduled the visit with was offsite because it was his day off, and he’d taken the license plates needed for test driving the car. We were told we’d have to wait 45 minutes if we wanted to drive the car. We did not wait 45 minutes.

Despite this particluar Alltrack being a mess it did strengthen my brother’s interest in the Golfwagens. So the next day I found there was a 2018 a few miles from my house and went to check it out. I wanted to look at it myself before telling my brother because, despite being a certified pre-owned, the carfax showed it had been in an accident on the right rear.

It didn’t take long to figure out this was going to be a no-sale. There was overspray on the rubber window trim, there were multiple places where the window gasket wasn’t properly sealed, and the hatch was rusting along the seam on both sides of the plate. Who the hell did the CPO inspection on this?

Last week I compiled a list of Allwagens in the northeast that might be worth a look and sent it to my brother. The two standouts for him were a pair of Sportwagens, one in Hanover, MA, the other back in New Jersey (at a proper VW dealer this time). We made plans to visit the one in MA last Saturday, then a plot twist popped up.

An Elantra GT Sport arrived at a dealership in Mystic, CT. The Sport is the N-Line with a bit less refinement in the handling (though it’s still good), no short throw shifter, and a bit more red in the interior. A new contender in the ring. To complicate things further, while doing final research Friday evening I went to the dealer website for the Hanover Sportwagen because I was having trouble getting the carfax to load on the Auto Trader site. I couldn’t find the car listed in the inventory on the dealer’s site, and it was too late in the evening to be able to call and ask if it was still there. Uh oh.

Despite this we set off Saturday morning for Hanover to see the car. As a backup plan I’d found an Alltrack in nearby Brockton in case the one in Hanover was sold. The Brockton car had too many miles to be considered (just under 90k), but at least my brother would finally be able to test drive one.

At 9 am, when the Hanover dealership opened and we were about 20 miles out, we called. Sure enough the car had sold, so we diverted to Brockton. My brother drove the Alltrack, and while it wasn’t as engaging as the Hyundai he did like it a lot. After the test drive he had to go back home to have lunch with a friend, so I went to the Hyundai solo. The Hyundai had two tires with sidewall damage, and adjoining rash on the wheels from the previous owner getting in fights with curbs, but otherwise the car was pristine. I took it for a test drive (easiest test drive ever. I walked into the showroom and in less than a minute from meeting someone they’d put the keys in my hand and sent me off solo with a “go have a rip”) and the car felt fantastic. Sharp, competent, but still comfortable. Upon returning I told the salesperson I liked it but it had the issue with the tires. He immediately took it off the sale lot and put it into the service queue to have the tires addressed. ( UPDATE: The salesperson I was working with called me and confirmed the car is getting four new tires.)

So now, barring one of the cars being sold during the week, it’s effectively down to the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in CT and the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in New Jersey. We’re planning on going to see both of them this coming Saturday. The winner between the two will immediately be scheduled for a PPI, then purchased upon being given a clean bill of health.

Both cars have pros and cons. The Hyundai is a year younger with 12,000 fewer miles, it has 40,000 miles left on the full factory warranty and 80,000 left on the powertrain (EDIT: Powertrain warranty gets cut to 60k miles for second owner. Lame) . It’s more enjoyable to drive, has leather seats, dual zone climate control, and a generally better button layout, both on the infotainment system and the steering wheel. Also, unlike the VW, things like the heated seats and the steering wheel volume controls work with the engine off. The main cons are a worse sound system and 5 fewer cubic feet of cargo space.

The Sportwagen just passed a CPO inspection on Friday, so it has a 24,000 mile CPO warranty, along with 5,000 miles left on the basic warranty and 29,000 on the powertrain. It has that extra cargo space, better sound, factory roof rails (my brother and his wife like to kayak), and all wheel drive. The biggest negatives/concerns are the shorter warranty length, reliability, and general VW weirdness which we have no experience with (lug bolts instead of nuts, the undertray with no cutouts for oil changes and a bazillion fasteners holding it in place, etc).

And this is where I come to Oppo for help. I know there are several here with various iterations of Golfs. How long have you had your car and how many miles? What problems have you run into, if any? What other design weirdness is he liable to be surprised by when working on the car (he has zero VW experience)? I don’t think there are any Elantra GT owners in here, but if so the same questions go to you as well. My brother has now been sans car for over six weeks, hopefully by this time next week we have a winner.

DISCUSSION (47)

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:05

After about 4 months of CPO ownership my Sportwagen developed a big fuckin dent in the door.... but that may be related to my wife’s parking skills rather than the car.

Overall, it’s been a great car and my only regret is that we didn’t get the alltrack.

66P1800inpieces > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:15

If the factory warranty covers everything does that negate the need for a real PPI? I have no faith in a CPO inspection as that is more for the dealer to be able to mark it as CPO. Other than protections that go with CPO, CPO is more for them than for you. Maybe you an get a service history printout. I am leery about non-maintained leases being returned and passed off as CPO with one oil change in 35k miles (as an example).

HammerheadFistpunch > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:16

We had an 11 sportwagen and it was pretty great, but we only had it for about 70k so it should have been. We had to replace the rear hatch mechanism once which meant buying a set of inverted hex tools, but other than that, pretty minor (aside from the TDI stuff)

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:21

The MK7 platform is reliable and I haven heard of no major issues like the previous VW platforms. Also they change the oil via the dip-stick tube and a suction pump. The crank cases are plastic so they don’t remove the drain plug.

Granted I haven’t been in a Hyundai, but I find the controls and screen on my 16 GTI to among the easiest to use I’ve ever encountered. And I know the cargo area was too small, but the GTI can run on regular.

nerd_racing > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
09/16/2020 at 13:22

I full on, out loud, belly laughed at this. In the middle of the office at work.

Dusty Ventures > 66P1800inpieces
09/16/2020 at 13:26

A factory warranty wouldn't cover anything that's the result of improper use or maintenance by the previous owner, which is why I'd say the PPI is still necessary

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
09/16/2020 at 13:34

Uhhh...wut? I can promise that my VW dealer would drain through the (disposable that they didn’t dispose) drain plug in the pan. They’re one time use plugs for a reason. I’ve never heard of a dealer using a vacuum.

Dusty Ventures > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
09/16/2020 at 13:35

I knew they change oil via the dipstick tube, my brother is one of those “I do all my own oil changes” types though (as am I). I didn't know the crankcase was plastic, in that case I guess we'd better look into the price of one of those suction pumps

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:36

It’s hard to believe that a Mazda 3 has insufficient cargo room compared to the hyundai and VW. They are smallish with the seats up but fold down the seats and it’s like texas in there.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:36

Nice! Were you able to drive the GT N-Line?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
09/16/2020 at 13:36

Maybe that’s just my dealership then? Hmm. I know the oil vacuum tool is a thing within the GTI scene, which is new for me.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:37

2018 GTI. 26,xxx miles

Zero issues so far apart from an infotainment screen that doesn’t always play nice with Carplay. I’ve had it re- flashed but the issue persists where when I plug the phone in, Carplay doesn’t always start up.

I did have to replace the rear wiper mount, but that’s because a carwash ripped it off, not a faul t of the car.

Dusty Ventures > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
09/16/2020 at 13:40

It’s specifically seats-up cargo space he needs. He needs to be able to have the back seats occupied and still carry stuff

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:42

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/65-liter-fluid-extractor/011885sch01a/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvZXwo5zu6wIVmIzICh2xzAMVEAQYAiABEgI4SPD_BwE

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:44

Again - you don’t need a vacuum. The oil pan has a one time use drain plug (I used it twice before getting a new one) and you do an oil change like any other car. Super easy because you only need a flathead screwdriver, not a socket set.

Oil filter is cartridge style, it’s recommended to use a large 32mm (i think, don’t quote me) socket to remove the housing, though you can also use a strap style filter wrench.

Dusty Ventures > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 13:45

Just briefly at the end of the test drive to feel out the clutch and the shifter, up the road and back, less than a mile. Clutch is light with a low engagement point and rev matching requires a more aggressive stab of the throttle than I’m used to, but it still felt good. Throws were nice and short.

camarov6rs > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:50

Verify the warranty on the Hyundai. I thought they slashed all the warranties for the second owner on all of them. I remember the power train goin from 100,000 miles to 50,000.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 13:54

If I decide it’s time to part with the M3 and get a warm hatch for a couple years until my oldest can shuttle his siblings, it’s near the top of the list.

Wish I liked the Type R more... would be the obvious choice for me short of the styling.

dogisbadob > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 14:00

Is that a Hyundai CPO from a Hyundai dealer? If not, the warranty is only 5 years/60k. Hyundai only offers the 10 year/100k warranty on new cars, and CPO cars from a Hyundai dealer.

VW is scary because they’re not the best cars. They are known for being expensive to fix.

Textured Soy Protein > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 14:04

Civic 1.5T does need premium but it’s so much more efficient than the other cars here the net fuel cost is roughly the same. But it sounds like the search has moved on anyway.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
09/16/2020 at 14:13

Those damned CPO dents. Claim the @#$% out of it! Emotional stress claim too...aren’t cars supposed to be driver-proof?

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 14:15

2016 GTI, 56,000 miles.

Main weak spot on the MK7 (and I’m not sure how widespread it is) appears to be the water pump gasket or the thermostat gasket. I had the thermostat replaced under warranty at about 51k miles due to a slight leak. Apparently the water pump gasket design has been improved, I don’t know at what point.

Otherwise, the main issue is rattling, either at the B-pillar or sunroof, neither of which are big issues for me. The B-pillar is occasional in warm months, and the sunroof creaking is very slight and occasional in cold months for me.

I agree that the steering wheel button layout is a bit weird, but after a year I got used to it. I still like the car.

Dusty Ventures > camarov6rs
09/16/2020 at 14:18

Sonuvabitch you're right

Mid Engine > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
09/16/2020 at 14:33

You sure I t’s not a Camry? They have the quite unique dent that made em a legend

Taylor Martin > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 14:40

I’m a big sucker for trunk space, so the Sportwagen takes that, but some of the problems with the GT can be fixed with aftermarket stuff (like roof racks and such). It’s also $2 cheaper, so you and your brother can buy 2 things off the dollar menu at McDonalds.

I haven’t driven, owned, or know enough about either of these cars. It doesn’t sound like a lot of the Golf drivers here had big issues with their cars (though they are certainly different, thanks to German engineering ), but the Hyundai sounds like more fun. Because I’m an irresponsible delinquent, I may go for the Hyundai for driving pleasure and style alone. Also, might be cheaper to maintain in the long run.

longtimelurkingtdiguy > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 15:00

Regarding maintenance quirks, the underbody tray and pretty much every other small screw or bolt use Torx drivers. If it is one with halogen headlamps, replacing the lowbeams is a PITA as the whole assembly has to come out in order to reach the bulbs. The lug bolts vs studs isn’t too big of an issue for rotating the tires as the hub has a lip the wheel will kind of rest on.

Also, one thing that took me too long to discover, the driver seat has a drawer built into the front which is kind of nice for “hidden” storage. I mainly use mine for togo lunch u tensils though.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
09/16/2020 at 15:10

Really? Loads of us do it. German cars have been doing this for years and years. No risk of stripping out drain plug threads out anything like that. It’s faster, easier, and gets just as much oil out as draining.

Don’t believe me? That’s fair, I didn't believe it when I first started for Benz either. But I've vacuumed oil out, then pulled the drain plug just to see. Zero drops would come out most of the time. But when you drain you almost always get that little tiny stream that lasts forever, even with the oil hot enough to fry a Thanksgiving turkey.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
09/16/2020 at 15:10

Definitely not just you're. Super common.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
09/16/2020 at 15:15

Oh, I totally believe you. I’ve owned cars where it’s common to use a vacuum. Just saying, on the Golf I owned at dealers I’ve been to, it’s *not* something they do and to indicate that the car needs to be oil-vacuumed is disingenuous.

Dusty Ventures > longtimelurkingtdiguy
09/16/2020 at 15:17

Yeah, we found that drawer when checking out the Alltrack. Good place to hide yer stash

DasWauto > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 15:44

I had my ‘15 Golf for only 2 years/30k miles but I didn’t have any issues with it (as it should be, obvs). That car did have an good sound system for a basic car - I still miss it when compared to the garbage that’s in my WRX, which is especially apparent because my 128i has an excellent system. :<

As others have mentioned, no access in the undertray because they want you to use a suction pump, which I’m not a fan of from a diy standpoint. I had the car dealer serviced because of that and it being my first car with a warranty, which I didn’t want to jeopardize.

If they made an AWD GTI, I’d probably still be in a VW, though I now prefer the mechanical system of the Subie over the FWD based Haldex stuff.

66P1800inpieces > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 16:51

That makes good sense, and well worth it in the longer run.

CivicWagonEngineer > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 17:26

Is it electronic throttle? I’ve heard that rev matching is notoriously hard on cars with electronic throttle

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 19:10

I had a CPO turbo beetle, 2012. Purchased 2017 with 55,000 miles sold 2 years and 12,000 miles later to get an auto. In that time it needed a rear wheel bearing and a door handle sensor switch thing(frameless door, window drops when pulling handle), lock replaced on gas cap cover, and a coil. Leave to you discretion if that’s too much; the deductible drove me a little crazy as it more or less covered parts in all of those instances. They also were really hesitant to do the work; it would take convincing- especially for the micro switch and gas cap cover. Where they’d be like “no that’s fine, that’s how it works” or “let me spray something on there”.

I think the Hyundai looks really good.

Dusty Ventures > CivicWagonEngineer
09/16/2020 at 19:15

It is, but both my Subarus are as well and it's remarkably easy in both

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Dusty Ventures
09/16/2020 at 19:58

“I don’t think there are any Elantra GT owners in here”

My GF recently bought a new 2020 Elantra GT... base 2L engine with the 6 speed auto. No issues (though she’s only had it a couple of months) and she loves it. When we were test driving, it was the 2nd closest to her 2005 Mazda 3 in terms of feel. #1 was the Corolla hatch... but she didn’t go for the Corolla because the back seat was too tight.

She had her last car for 15 years. So I figured if she’s gonna keep an the Elantra for that long, the base engine with the regular 6 speed auto would be the better bet for reliability and durability.

And yeah... Hyundai has a great warranty. Of all the cars we looked at, only the Tesla Model 3 had a better warranty.

I’m also biased against VAG products. I know people who had/have them. Expect little things to go like window regulators, trim bits breaking and parts to be more expensive than average.

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
09/18/2020 at 03:22

Ha, I wrote about the Euro-spec Elantra GT (i30 over there) N-Line I had as a tester (from back when we were allowed in other countries, sigh ) this week. It’s a good car, but I wanted just a lil’ more engine...which the USDM gets. I think the Hoon-Day might get my vote? Both are good, but if one’s more fun with less miles, do eet.

As for VW stuff, I only have older parshwagen experience, but at least with that, you get the occasional tools and such and it’s fine. The closest things I’ve driven were a that-gen Jetta (which sucks suspension-wise compared to the last Jetta) and a GTI (which was a joy). I do like the looks of that lomgboi, though.

(“Hanover Sportwagen” also tripped me up since Hannover’s where the VW commercial vehicles come from. My vote is really a Volkswagen Amarok.)

Dusty Ventures > Stef Schrader
09/19/2020 at 07:08

It must pain you immensely to pick the not-German car

Dusty Ventures > Textured Soy Protein
09/19/2020 at 07:34

We actually ran the numbers and even at 4.2 mpg over the Hyundai the Civic would be about $100 more per year in gas

Textured Soy Protein > Dusty Ventures
09/19/2020 at 14:22

I guess for me that falls within the range of “close enough.”

The Civic is good, I just bought an Si, but if looking at the regular versions there are plenty of other contenders worth considering.

Of the various HyunKia 1.6T cars, the Forte GT is the cheapest new one. Fully loaded with DCT and the GT2 package they’re like 25k but that package can’t be had on the stick. Starts around 22k I think. Could maybe even squeak into the budget brand new after discounts. But would be a trunk not a hatch.

Used Elantra Sport sedans get pretty cheap too, I’ve definitely seen plenty of those in the 16-19k range.

Dusty Ventures > Textured Soy Protein
09/19/2020 at 15:40

Has to be a hatch or wagon. He needs the big mouth

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
09/21/2020 at 20:06

Hey, I have a Mitsubishi!

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
09/22/2020 at 00:01

{ hides vacation photos }

Kinja'd!!!

Dusty Ventures > Stef Schrader
09/22/2020 at 00:47

You do have a thing for owning janky hoopties

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
09/22/2020 at 13:43

It’s not a janky hooptie!

Dusty Ventures > Stef Schrader
09/22/2020 at 17:08

*polite cough*

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
09/22/2020 at 20:20

all it needs is a tire with an ETA of early October