What Car Should I Buy UPDATE:

"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural) 09/14/2020 at 08:45 • Filed to: None

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When we left off, I was searching for food-for-thought on what car I should get for about $15k moving into a field sales job racking up 25,000 miles a year or so. The real must-haves were bluetooth and leather, and at the time I was looking for something that could take regular gas. Well, we have some clarifications and updates for the next round of fun bantz.

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First of all, I want to congratulate all of you for picking out some really great options for someone who wants to spend $20k. Your ability as a group to consistently take “I’m looking to spend $15k” and treat it as seriously as a used car dealer should be commended. Kudos. But to your credit, I’m sort of realizing that should probably be closer to the top of my budget to get what I want.

I’ve figured out more specifically what I want, so here’s the new rundown of what I’m looking for - tl;dr style:
Bluetooth must. Leather must. Navigation OR OEM CarPlay compatibility must. Adaptive cruise huge plus. Under $22k in the NYC market , meaning, “pretend I said under $17k ” (remember, dealers have $1000-2500 in fees on top of advertised prices, and the cheapest ones on AutoTrader are usually accident cars and l emon buybacks ). I f it’s over $20k I want at least a few months of nationally-backed warranty (either CPO or off the new car warranty). Decent gas mileage - ballpark 25mpg combined (regular) or 30 (premium). Lower body mileage better, but definitely under ~60k. No domestics. Not so slow I hate driving it. Good legroom.

Yes, I am open to cars taking premium now, but it needs to perform better on mileage accordingly.

What I’ve seen:

2015 Genesis Sedan 3.8 RWD : Drove it. Adaptive cruise with stop and go is amazing. Liked it a lot but lacked some passion. Slightly over budget to get one still in warranty. There’s a weird thing, Hyundai Genesis is 5 year warranty, Genesis G80 is 6 year. So I can get a 2016 with 4 months of warranty, or a G80 (can’t afford) with 2 years 4 months. In the running.

2012 ES 350 : Sat in a base model. On the small side . Navigation-equipped ES’s use the same interface and graphics that Lexus debuted in 1999. GS is older and not close on mileage goals. As much as I want a Lexus, I don’t think it’s out there. Ones I can afford just feel old, thirsty, or both .

2017 Mazda6 : Sat in one, on the small side, the RX8 was the start of the interior language and material choices for a lot of Mazdas, and I didn’t realize they were still using that in 2017. I was extremely thrown off. I couldn’t get over the idea of paying $15-17k to replace the RX8 with a car that looked the same on the inside, was slower, and was smaller.

2017? Passat 1.6T: Not bad, affordable, takes regular, but I had to lean forward out of the seat to use the touchscreen with the seat pretty far back (I am tall). Sort of a turn-off. On the outside looking in, but not eliminated.

2017 Audi A3 2.0T Quattro: Liked it a lot. Seat goes pretty far back, to the point you’re actually sitting behind the B-pillar so there’s no armrest. Wish it was a coupe. Can get inside factory warranty but CPO gets expensive fast. Loved the MMI interface wheel thing. In the running.

Interested in looking at:

TLX - The 3.5 costs more than the Audi though, and uses more gas. The 2.4 would be competing in the “15-20k” category on speed/comforts , but is not actually in that price range.
Jetta GLI - You all missed this one. 2.0T, takes regular, quick, cheaper and more efficient than the Audi/Genesis. Seems like a lot to like.
2015/2016 Audi A3 2.0TDI - Only 2015/16 had the MMI wheel, would need to be nav equipped (CarPlay started in 2017), needs a tune for boooooost , needs to be CPO to get comprehensive warranty. Lots of boxes to tick . But dumb efficient and the Dieselgate 10/120k powertrain warranty is a really nice plus.
Volvo?????????? - what should I look at?
Optima / Elantra - Neither were high on my first list as they look neither lux nor sporty, but I dunno I guess should look at them more before saying no.
V6 Accord/Camry - still looking into this, but getting one with low-ish miles is no bargain. V6 Accords start at around $20k with barely under 60k miles. Anything you see advertised below that on a V6 accord is to get you in the door... E.g., one listing said advertised price is after $2000 down payment, before $995 doc fee and $995 reconditioning fee, financed in-house only or add 20% dealer convenience fee for cash.

Would love more suggestions and any firsthand experiences with anything I’m still considering, TIA oppo.

pip bip - choose Corrour > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:00

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Chevy SS or Pontiac G8

notsomethingstructural > pip bip - choose Corrour 09/14/2020 at 09:02

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Nice

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:08

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add 20% dealer convenience fee for cash

Ah, yes, it’s such an inconvenience having to deposit all that cash.

God I hate those convenience fees. Like tickets , I know it’s cheaper for you to have me do this online versus coming into a physical location, if anything the ticket should be cheaper online.

As for the car choices. The Jetta GLI and Audi TDI would be my top choices here.

I’d say the Accord 2.0t would be a good option as well, but I doubt you can find one under $20k yet .

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:09

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You seem to have all your bases covered. I’d really look into that Genesis.

412GTI > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:16

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GLI would be a solid choice. The Interior is a little bit of a let down compared to the GTI but overall it’s still classy and functional. I will say I love my 17 GTI. It offers great balance of fun and comfort. Plus you can’t beat gering 35+ MPG on the highway. I use premium in mine although I guess regular is fine.

My brother has an A3 and it’s definitely just a slightly nicer if not a bit more dull. Probably good for your needs. Very little issues with both.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:22

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Jetta/Golf as you said. Volvo S60, lightly preowned. V60 but those are hard to find under $20k.

If CarPlay is a must, VW started it in 2016, Volvo later. There’s not many cars that offered it a few years ago, so that may limit your choices.

You’re in NYC right?  Drive to PA and they won’t screw you as hard (ie: no “reconditioning” fees). Easton and Bethlehem have a ton of reputable car dealers. 

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 09:26

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I only found the GLI as a candidate yesterday and looking at the numbers on the Elantra sport this morning it’s no dog. So I think there’s still a couple other options out there somewhere if I’m still finding new options . Just a matter of finding more .

Any firsthand experience with any of these?

And yeah at the moment I think the genesis is proooobbbbbably leading the pack. 

Sovande > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:29

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Volvo S/V60. You can find these all day for your price range.i just did a 175 mile highway round trip and returned 36.5 mpgs without trying. Very comfortable seats, can be had with adaptive cruise, has leather, bluetooth,etc. I have a 2015.5 i bought two years ago and plan to keep it for at least ten years which will be about 8 years longer than every car that has preceded it.

Quick search on cargurus shows that you can get them for about $20k with 12-15,000 miles.

If the markup is that high in the city, you can always find what you like someplace cheaper and fly out and drive back.

notsomethingstructural > 412GTI 09/14/2020 at 09:33

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The GLI is pushing it for me on boy racer vs professional looks, and I sat in a Jetta for a few mins and it was definitely pushing the space boundaries for me. Not sure the GTI goes in the right direction on either of those issues.

I was not expecting to like the A3. I’ve never owned a German car ever. But the 2.0T was zippy, the interior detailing was pretty good, and the MMI wheel was killer. I don’t particularly like touchscreens (big guy = big hands, and touchscreens have tiny moving buttons) so it was nice to have another option.

What sort of body  mileage do you guys have? And what engine is in the GTI?

notsomethingstructural > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 09/14/2020 at 09:36

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Dude I HATE the cash convenience fee. I know it’s bullshit and I get why they do it if they make money on financing, but call it something else. One place said they offer $1500 down payment assistance if you finance in-house. That’s perfect imo. Do that. Be better, dealers.

Edit: any firsthand knowledge of those? The TDI is basically the same price as the 2.0T despite being 2 years older. 

notsomethingstructural > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 09/14/2020 at 09:40

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Yeah I have no intention of buying in NYC. I’d drive out that way if I wasn’t also looking for an apartment in CT  right now. Most likely I’ll be shopping in central Long Island and the central CT shore. I’ll go as far as Hartford since I get the RX8 serviced there anyways and it’s due for its annual compression check .

It’s a shame, I love my Mazda dealer but they don’t sell a car I want right now. I wish I could give them the business.

notsomethingstructural > Sovande 09/14/2020 at 09:42

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Sure but there’s costs associated with that too. Ultimately even at 35 MPG by the time I fly out 500 miles and drive back I’m out the better half of  $1000 anyways between flight and hotel cabs to airport etc etc etc

How has the Volvo held up?

valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:50

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A 2015 Q50 w/nav is in your price range. It’ll have leather and can return good highway MPG. Enough power to make it to your next sales call.

But reading through your criteria I think you’re better off with a nicer “non-luxury” car like the VW, Mazda, or Hyundai . And better yet, given your yearly mileage figure, a hybrid can make a noticeable dent in your fuel costs. Sonatas and Optimas comes in hybrid form.

Long_Voyager94 > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 09:59

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What about an upper level Malibu or Impala?

People tend to be against domestic sedans, but they are decent, trouble free places to spend time.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 10:04

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Hyundai/Kia make some great cars. The Elantra is a great car if you were more worried about economy in reasonablr comfort but you want a dash of excitement and luxury.

I didn’t know you could get a GLI that cheap but I do love those things. Close to the same downfalls as the Elantra but feels a lot more special.

Jb boin > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 10:13

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The GTi has the same 2.0T as the A3, it’s basically the same car underneath.

412GTI > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 10:36

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Yeah I can’t comment on whether the GTI or GLI would be best for taller drivers as I’m pretty short myself.

I’m at 31k and I think he’s around 15k. Had a clock spring go last month but was covered. Only issue so far.

Totally get the boy racer part, it’s a reason why I actually chose the GTI since it looks more professional than similar cars

Sovande > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 10:36

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I have had zero issues with the Volvo in 20,000 miles. I have the Drive-e 4 cylinder and 8 speed transmission. I just did all new brakes and rotors yesterday and it cost about $340 for the parts (vs $1000 at the dealership). I have the oil changed at the dealership and that runs about $100. I also swapped out the rear shocks, but that’s a simple job as well which takes about 25 minutes.  

My point about flying in and driving home was that if you decide you like Car A and you can find one for $3000 cheaper 400 miles away, it’s not unreasonable to fly down and drive home. Just a thought.  You can fly for about $100, rent a room for about $100 and drive home for about $60 if it’s all highway.  The range on the highway is somewhere around 600 miles.

notsomethingstructural > valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option 09/14/2020 at 10:37

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A lot of the hybrids fall inside the “slow enough I hate driving them” category though. Yes, I want to save on fuel, but I ran some numbers with the EPA website and even going from the RX-8 to the A3 was $1500/year in savings (and that’s before 2x a year plugs and compression tests and monthly oil changes) . The next $500 gets significantly harder if I still want to have any fun. All things equal, I’d rather pay the $500.

The Q50 is pushing it, and a 2015 will be off warranty I’m pretty sure. I’d like at least a couple months of warranty if I’m going over $20k. I’ll look into it a bit more though. 2017-ish  look like they bump right up to $22k + fees, haggle it down and it might get there.

notsomethingstructural > Long_Voyager94 09/14/2020 at 10:37

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My experiences (and my family’s) with domestics is anything but “trouble-free”

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 10:39

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That’s basically where I’m at. I need a little passion in the car, either in luxury, sport, or both. The Passat was nice but didn’t feel passionate. The Genesis, sadly, sort of did too... not like a Lexus or Audi feels passionate anyways. I’m planning on digging into the 2.0T a little further today.

notsomethingstructural > Jb boin 09/14/2020 at 10:40

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The GLI, GTI, and A3 all having the same 2.0T at least will make it easier for me to get some data on how well it holds itself together...

notsomethingstructural > Sovande 09/14/2020 at 10:43

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For $3k I would do it, trying to save $1k on dealer fees probably not. Flights aren’t usually that cheap but I forgot we’re talking about 2020.

20k and needing pads , rotors, and rear shocks sounds like a pretty short lifespan for those, no? Pads I get the other two that’s an awfully short service interval in my opinion

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 10:48

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I don’t have any first hand knowledge. I just know they have gotten good reviews and it’s a Honda, so should be plenty reliable. It is on my short list of cars to test drive once I start looking for a new vehicle in the next few years.

Sovande > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 10:55

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Sorry, that was confusing! I bought the car used with about 45 ,000 miles . So at about 65 ,000 I did the brakes, which according to the maintenance history is the first time they have been touched. The reason for replacing the rotors (which were probably fine) was that the new ones have a zinc coating and won’t look like crap in a month like non-coated rotors and I just replaced the wheels on the car and wanted it all to look nice. 5 years for pads and rotors doesn’t seem crazy to me.

The rear shocks were definitely due to be replaced when I did it at about 62,000 miles . I do have the lowered and stiffer Sports Chassis (same as the chassis on the R Design - lower springs, stiffer shocks and struts and more chassis bracing) so maybe that had and impact.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 11:00

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I think that Genesis would be a great choice for your use-case.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 11:01

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The 2.0 T is likely to be the best feeling one. . . briefly, as eventually the repair bills will mount up. It might be a more fun experience on the road but I don’t think I’d ever own an Audi for that very reason. 

notsomethingstructural > Sovande 09/14/2020 at 11:03

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60k miles is a totally normal shock interval. No worries there. Whew. I’ll check out your posts for more deets! Write one up for me :D

notsomethingstructural > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/14/2020 at 11:05

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That’s definitely how it looks to me right now. Or the GLI, because it’s several grand less expensive and far better on gas, and between those it buys a lot of repairs to the 2.0T if I have issues with it.

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 11:07

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I know the old TFSI engines are a nightmare, but I’ve heard mixed-stuff on the post-2013 updated ones. I’ve been very reluctant to indulge the Audi because maintenance is a lot, and repairs I’m not so sure yet. I don’t mind expensive maintenance or repairs, I just don’t want both.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 11:13

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Yeah, I just would be wary. There’s nothing more expensive than a depreciated German car. 

Sovande > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 11:43

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I’m too lazy to make a post. I will say that my only gripe about the car was fixed when I had the transmission flushed at 62k. Prior to the service, there was a slight delay in the gear shift using the flappy paddles that didn’t exist when chan ging gears using the gear selector. After the flush and transmission reset, the behavior has disappeared and gear shifts are quick now with the paddles. Volvo claims the fluid is lifetime, but I don’t agree, and the dealership doesn’t agree, so I had it flushed. My intent at this point is to bring the car back to “ Stage 0" and then continue with the maintenance intervals as suggested by Volvo. The only one I don’t adhere to is the oil change interval. I can’t make myself wait 10,000 miles to change the oil and have been getting done at or about 7500 miles.

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 11:47

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I can’t even put into words my immense disappointment that the only Lexus I would consider is 8 years old and uses a GPS interface that’s old enough to drink. I would much - MUCH rather go that route than anything German. And in researching Acura’s, I think at the end of this exercise they comp out at about the same price in resale, so I either take my medicine up front on the Acura or a slow bleed on the A3. Believe me, the A3 is not my first choice on the merits. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 11:54

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Honestly, that Genesis is going to be the easiest to live with and it’s a little quirky and unusual. That’s my recommendation but that Jetta GLI is mighty tempting if you can find one in that price range.

Long_Voyager94 > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 11:58

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That’s my family’s experience with Honda and Toyota...

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 12:11

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I think Volvo is out for you based on MPG requirements. I think , though I may be wrong on that, they mostly require premium though as I’m saying that even mine is only “Premium Fuel Recommended.” Looks like the turbo 4 will get you a decent 25/37, but moving up to the turbo 6 knocks you down to 20/28, with the turbo 5 being only slightly better than the 6... which is annoying haha . AWD knocks off about 1MPG as far as I can tell.

Anyway, looks like you could get a 2015 or older S60 all day long in budget. The larger S80, which fits more with the size/class you’re looking at, seems to be thinner on the ground in that range. I searched for Volvo sedan between $ 10k and $ 17k within 100 of a random zip code near NJ and came up with 37x S60s, 3x S80s, and 3x V60s. Nice thing about a Volvo is the seats are mega comfortable and the reliability is mostly fine. Each of them has a few known trouble spots (expansion tank , coolant tee, low hanging AC compressor on the C30 anyway) but nothing major in the engine and transmission that I am aware of.

Sidenote on the GLI: I test drove a new one in 2009 and HATED it. Compared to the Civic Si and RX8 (what I was cross-shopping with) it felt slow and numb.

Future next gen S2000 owner > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 12:18

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Do Mazda3's have leather? I would get one of those.

Textured Soy Protein > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 12:20

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You can’t get active cruise even on a brand new GLI. Having used it in my wife’s cars, for mass highway driving, you want it. I don’t know for sure but I’d wager an A3 of that vintage would be similar.

The Hyundai Elantra GT Sport & N-Line with the DCT & tech package have the same active cruise with stop ‘n go as you experienced in the Genesis but I’m not seeing them basically at all on the used market near you.

Active cruise became standard on all Honda Civics for 2019 (along with a volume knob on the stereo instead of a stupid touch-sensitive slider on 2016-18 models). I’m not sure the exact trims it came on before that but the top level Touring sedan and Sport Touring hatch should have it along with the leather etc.

notsomethingstructural > Long_Voyager94 09/14/2020 at 12:31

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Really? Wow. Nissans I get but I know of very few people who have issues with either of those two. 

notsomethingstructural > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/14/2020 at 12:32

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They do but I think I drove one as a courtesy car and it was cramped. That may have been a CX3 but whatever it was it was too small for my needs

notsomethingstructural > Textured Soy Protein 09/14/2020 at 12:38

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There were a few Elantra sports I saw but not “Elantra GT sports” when I looked this morning. I’ll do some homework... but still , this is immensely helpful. The A3 had it as an option but I’m not sure it goes to a full stop and I don’t think it was on most new dealer inventory cars just orders. It’s extremely hard to find. What does your wife drive?

I’m not sure you’re correct on the GLI. It seems like it was an option but an extremely rare one. I think I saw it on a couple... e.g. this has a cruise stalk that appears to have the follow distance slider  toggle on the top, so I’m 99% sure it’s ACC. But again, very very rare.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/821006166/overview?aff=share_other

Long_Voyager94 > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 12:41

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2016 Sienna, engine replaced under 30k, traded around 50k when the trans was going. Replaced with a 2017 Highlander, engine went around 22k, traded under 40k. Replaced with a 2016 Grand Caravan, now at 329k, no major issues.

2015? Odyssey, engine replaced under 20k, trans replaced under 40k, traded at 48k when the new engine began using extreme amounts of oil. Replaced with a 2015 Grand Caravan, now at 318k, no major issues.

2015 Highlander, trans replaced at 32k, traded under 50k when it went in for engine replacement. Replaced by a 2014 Town and Country, now over 430k miles, no issues.

2012 Corolla S manual, 2 engines 3 transmissions under warranty, sold at 85k. While it was in the shop continually, my then 95 Plymouth Acclaim it was supposed to replace played daily duty. Ended up getting a 2006 Nissan Sentra SE-R to replace it, which gave us over 100k miles without issue.

Mind you all of our vehicles are meticulously maintained. After our experiences with them, you can’t pay me to get in a Honda or a Toyota.

CompactLuxuryFan > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 12:45

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The 3 is far larger than the CX-3 because it’s a platform size up. The CX-3 is based on the 2/Demio that never came to the US except Puerto Rico and as a Yaris. 

notsomethingstructural > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 09/14/2020 at 12:47

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I’m optimistic because I liked the A3 2.0T Quattro. The SI is a realistic cross-shop but the RX8 is not remotely in the same caliber of car. That’s like “oh I drove a 370z and a FWD  A4 and the Audi felt a lot slower” yeah I mean of course haha

I’m gonna look at a S60. Everyone seems to be saying that. Just have to figure out what configuration(s) make sense for me.

notsomethingstructural > Long_Voyager94 09/14/2020 at 12:50

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In fairness, the T&C and Caravan are some of the most robust vehicles ever made. Really bizarre that you’ve had these issues. I’ve never heard of that at all. Makes me wonder if you drive it across a lake or something. What were the issues?

notsomethingstructural > CompactLuxuryFan 09/14/2020 at 12:51

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I didn’t know this. I assumed it was a shared platform. Oops. Maybe I’ll try it out but the 6 really did absolutely nothing for me. 

Textured Soy Protein > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 12:53

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I don’t know about older ones, but on the current Jetta you can’t get active cruise on the GLI . As for that cruise stalk, who knows, but m y 2011 335xi’s gauge cluster has the active cruise distance indicator lights even though it doesn’t have active cruise. It could be that some other Jetta/Golf trim of that vintage had active cruise available and VW just used the same stalk for everything.

Elantra GT is the 5-door hatch version of the Elantra a.k.a. what’s sold as the i30 outside the US. The upper trim with the 1.6T started out as the Sport but for 2019 changed to N-Line with a bit of extra sportiness added but it’s basically the same thing. For some reason active cruise isn’t on the Elantra Sport sedan, but it’s part of that package on the GT Sport/N-Line.

My wife’s car is a 2018 CX-5. The active cruise works great. Before that she had a 2016 Impreza which also had active cruise, but one thing that was so stupid about the system in that car was the accelerate/decelerate switch on the steering wheel infuriatingly went in 5 mph increments instead of 1.

One other thing to consider although this is out of your price range is that brand new, the cheapest Hyundai/Kia 1.6T car with active cruise is the Forte GT with the DCT and GT2 package, which stickers right around $25k.

Civics, you probably wouldn’t be able to get the features you want in a 2019-up for the price you want but you could get a used or CPO 2016-17 as long as you can put up with the stupid volume slider. There is at least a rocker switch on the steering wheel as well, but Honda brought the volume knob back for 2019 because so many people hated that stupid slider. For example: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=556132290

notsomethingstructural > Sovande 09/14/2020 at 13:14

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“When asked, the d ealer doesn’t agree with corporate saying I shouldn’t pay for service I don’t need” ;)

Sovande > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 13:21

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I think it’s a service that is needed. I don’t think the “lifetime” fluids are good for much more than 100,000 miles. I’d like to keep the car longer than that, but servici ng the fluid at 100,000 allows for more junk to build up in the system. Shorter intervals are better, but I am happy to have done it.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 13:25

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You could for sure in the 15+ Golfs (+GTI and R), not sure on the Jettas.

More importantly, why would anyone get a Jetta instead of a Golf?

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 13:30

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So just for simplicity, CPO 2017 Jetta GLI there’s 8 of them under $20k within 75 miles starting at $18.5k.

CPO Genesis sedan there’s a handful within 250 miles of me , running from $24k to $29k, averaging about $26k.

So the Jetta has a MASSIVE head start. I can go away from CPO on the Genesis and get a 2016 and enjoy a precious few (as in 4-6) months of bumper-to-bumper warranty, but they still START at about $22.5k. A couple that were listed for slightly less before seem to have sold.

If we go the other way, I can get a non-CPO 2018 GLI or find someone about to turn in a lease, and run out the new 6/72k transferable bumper-to-bumper that VW sold it with... and still be out less than $20k.

The price gap on those is not close. It’s not remotely close.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 13:41

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I didn’t realize the Geneses had held their value that well. It definitely makes a GLI attractive. Probably getting an automatic for so many business miles gives you more choice too. I very much like that idea. Go drive one as soon as possible.

What is the value on the RX8? You might even consider keeping it. 

notsomethingstructural > Textured Soy Protein 09/14/2020 at 13:43

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How the heck do you know all this about ACC? This is super helpful. It’s been so hard to tell who offers what.

Anyways, the GLI started off as a trim level to the Jetta, so I was thinking it could be related to that, but even the regular Jetta didn’t have ACC until well after 2014. Someone mentioned they broke a clock spring, it’s certainly possible a cruise stalk was on the clock spring and the wrong one was installed.

I’m gonna look at all these Korean options tonight and get back to you.

The Civic.... ehhhh I dunno. I’ve got no issue with anyone who wants a Civic - ever - but there’s never been an “it” factor for me when riding in any of my buddy’s last 4 or 5 Civic leases .

notsomethingstructural > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 09/14/2020 at 13:45

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When the car is exclusively parked at meetings with people who own sedans. Jetta in GLI trim maybe could have, but “Jetta GLI” as it is currently sold (as a dedicated model) does not.

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 13:47

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Thanks dad. I hope you’re proud of me

Probably about $4-5k plus whatever I put into it to get it ready for sale. It’s being considered, but with a rotary and that sort of mileage it might just die in 6 months to a year and a $4k haircut plus what I lose on the gas and maintenance is probably not less than depreciating something newer.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 13:52

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Ackn owledged. It’s tough but if you wouldn’t ever drive it for pleasure it doesn’t make sense. With so much dr iving for work you’re going to have less time and need for a different fun car.

Jetta GLI sure sounds good. Let us know how the test drive goes. 

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 13:58

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If I can’t get $4-5k + sale prep I would keep it for now. It’s eligible for Hagertys which is $30 a month . Fun car is on the horizon. Depends what happens when I sell my house and how a litigation my attorneys are drafting goes , but rest assured once one or both of those proceeds are booked there will be something cooler and more expensive in store than what I’m considering for a DD. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 14:05

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Happy times then. It’s a good time to be selling a house it seems as long as you’re not trying to buy another one in a more expensive area.

The RX8 is a really cool and unique ride, but they are getting old. They’re in a weird point in their depreciation curve where they are still cheap to buy and thrash but you can’t really find a nice one easily for a reasonable price. No one is restoring RX8s yet but their prices have slightly but steadily risen it seems.

Best of luck with your new car buying spree. I hope the new fun car on the horizon is something real special.

Textured Soy Protein > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 14:10

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I’ve been shopping for my next car for a while, I really want ACC , and I spend too much time messing about with configurators and brochures while I engage in my crazy all-over-the-place shopping.

I inadvertently ended up on the ACC bandwagon. When we got my wife’s ’16 Impreza, we didn’t really care about ACC , but I like sunroofs, and the dealer had a fully-loaded Impreza with both a sunroof and EyeSight in our price range . She ended up loving the active safety nannies, and since I do more of our highway driving, I really appreciated the active cruise even with those stupid 5 mph increments.

Speaking of t he Koreans, without knowing the exact years/trims off the top of my head , the top trim(s) of the Sonata and Optima have 240-ish hp turbo motors and ACC, but I tried out a loaded most-recent gen Optima SX a while back (i.e. the car that’s just been replaced by the K5) and it’s basically a boring family sedan with lots of options and better-than-base power , but not at all engaging to drive.

notsomethingstructural > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/14/2020 at 14:19

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Yeah, mine is in decent shape, it has the fender rust though. Hasn’t made holes but I bet it wouldn’t take much encouragement. Great compression last I checked, and I want to keep it that way. Fully documented for 10+ years. It does seem the first gen is steadily rising. Good examples are up to $7-8k now when back 4-5 years ago they were around $5k. I’m still debating whether I want to put $1500 in it to really prep it for sale and shoot for $7k or just dump it and take $4000. Nothing is guaranteed either way clearly. It’s a bit dirty right now but will clean up well.

Special car will be special, especially if they settle the litigation. That’s going straight to weekend fun car.

notsomethingstructural > Textured Soy Protein 09/14/2020 at 14:21

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Another good scoop, my buddy suggested I test an optima. Glad to have a go-to ACC fan. The questions will be relentless >:D

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 14:50

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The issues on those can mound up over time with negligent or careless owners so finding one that has actually been taken care of is getting increasingly rare, hence the price rising.

I didn’t know they had rust issues but they do have clearcoat issues, especially on the roof and front bumper, so if yours has been garaged that’s a big plus.

Honestly, in this used market, I’d try to put some money into it given that it seems you stand to make roughly the same amount on it either way. The people buying nicer RX8s are probably easier to deal with and more experienced with the cars. Plus, it would make it better to drive in the meantime.

Long_Voyager94 > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 15:57

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In fairness, the T&C and Caravan are some of the most robust vehicles ever made.  

According to the average person they’re unreliable crap.....

What were the issues?

Severe oil consumption on all the engines replaced, all started around 15k miles.
The transmissions began slipping severely.
The manual trans Corolla launched something internally that locked it between 1st and reverse, lost the synchros the 2nd time, and locked into 2nd gear the 3rd time.

I admit we generally drive harder than most people, but we are crazy on maintenance and generally have no issue going well over 200k on our vehicles.

notsomethingstructural > Long_Voyager94 09/14/2020 at 17:49

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Do you bounce it off the redline to warm them up or what? Lol

I’ve always heard that those were built to be the most reliable vehicles in the fleet because they were the golden goose, and as a result they didn’t change them too significantly to avoid replatforming issues. That’s a rough recollection. They’re vehicles people assume are unreliable crap, but aside from rust they do seem to run for a while.

Moltenburn > notsomethingstructural 09/14/2020 at 22:55

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If I was looking for a halfway smart but fun car with solid options.... Hyundai Elantra sport. 2020s will have a solid discount. Pretty sure you can get one brand new for $18.5k for a $24k  car. Not bad 2020s only had a auto, but their dual clutch is pretty nice. 2021s will have n-line and manual. So maybe worth the wait. 

notsomethingstructural > Moltenburn 09/14/2020 at 23:15

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The Elantra sport is a recent addition to my list. I want to look at the new Kia / Hyundai incentives, because honestly I’m starting to lean that direction so long as I can fit in the car and they are super well-optioned. Someone else mentioned a Kia Forte GT because I can get smart cruise... there’s options out there on the new car front I haven’t considered much.

notsomethingstructural > Textured Soy Protein 09/15/2020 at 00:45

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So I spent some time looking at this and here’s some thoughts:
- If I can fit in a Forte GT, getting that new is not at all a bad idea. Kia is offering $1500 + 1.9% / 60mo financing, which makes that an interesting option.
- What is less interesting and far more obnoxious, is the GT2 package is impossibly rare on dealer stock. The nearest one is like 75 miles from me.
- It is absurd ACC is not offered in the Elantra sport sedan, which is a major turn-off. I don’t really want a wagon. I would rather go the Elantra sedan route than the Forte. But not at the cost of ACC.
- The Optima SX is too expensive for me new, and in a car I’m already iffy on, almost certainly too slow for me in a different trim. They’re offering a whopping $4500 on these though.
- Really, the rest of the lineup for both brands is either too slow or too expensive.

I dunno, I might make a call to that dealer and see where they’re really trying to end up on the Forte GT. 

Textured Soy Protein > notsomethingstructural 09/15/2020 at 10:47

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From what I can tell from my own shopping lately is Kia is in the middle of switching over to 2021 models and certain stuff is rare at the moment, even if generally speaking it might be nitpicky but not especially difficult to locate . If you’re not urgently needing to do this, even giving it a couple weeks for the 21s to start showing up could lead to the Forte GT2s being more plentiful around you.

Another thing I’ve noticed with certain nitpicky/rare Kia option or color combos is at least here in the DC area it seems like some dealers never bother to order those options/combos and then 1 maybe 2 specific dealers order a bunch of them.

Playing around with Kia’s inventory search on their website, they don’t have 21s listed yet there, but Auto Trader is showing some. There are many 20 GTs near me but no GT2s. All the GT2s I’m seeing are in-transit 21s.

There’s one dealer  here that I had previously noticed got a bunch of Forte GTs, and both their website and Auto Trader say t hey have 4 2021 GT2s on the way . I’ve definitely seen other dealers with nitpicky option cars that weren’t listed on Auto Trader.

If you haven’t already run searches on the individual dealership websites you could contact the local ones and ask if they have any in transit. If they’re on the way to a dealer near me they could be doing same near you.

notsomethingstructural > Textured Soy Protein 09/15/2020 at 13:01

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If I wait for a 2021 I’m losing the incentives... $1750 + 1.9% is pretty solid. That’s almost 10% and probably a half point lower than what I can get otherwise (and preferable to spending the cash I borrowed against my house at 3.25%) . After dealer incentives I’m probably able to get it close to $20- 21k. That’s a viable alternate to used.

But i f I wait , I’m just hiring Tom and giving him a build sheet, and I’m probably out the door closer to $24k. Not as attractive. But at least it’s the color I want!

FYI, I was using Kia’s locator, since that seemed the be the best way to search by package. There’s plenty of GT’s, just barely any GT2's. Like, 1 in 10.