Medium Warm Taek - I like auto start/stop

"nermal" (nermal) 09/10/2020 at 14:29 • Filed to: Hot Taeks, Engine Start Stop button, save the whales, Fuel Economy

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My experience is with a manuel Jeep , others may vary. It saves fuel when driving in the city. Engine stops when you stop, starts back up again when you push in the clutch. Other than being unusually quiet when stopped at a long light, it’s completely unobtrusive from a driving perspective.

It d oesn’t stop if the engine isn’t up to temp, the wheels are turned, you’re on too steep of a hill, or if the interior temp gets too hot or cold.

It’s a good thing and I don’t understand why people whine about it so much.

facw > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:34

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This is a sensible take. I think a lot of people just don’t like the car doing things on its own (despite the fact that the car is doing tons of things on its own all the time). I think some drivers also feel like the car is stalling when stopped when they first experience it.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:38

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Well, as a VW owner, I’m afraid that one time, it just won’t start back up.

Interestingly, even when I sold cars for a living, I’ve never once heard of this happening.

phenotyp > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:38

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Yeah, I’ve never understood the objection. It... kinda makes sense not to run the engine when you don’t need it.

Tripper > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:39

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“ Other than being unusually quiet when stopped at a long light, it’s completely unobtrusive from a driving perspective.”

I agree on some cars but disagree on others . The last 3 series I drove with auto start/stop was a full one Mississippi from pedal touch to engine start... Most are fine although I have never driven a manual with that feature equipped.

So I mostly agree with you but I don’t like it. I don’t like the idea of the engine being off when I’m actively driving. Even if the engine does not react any slower, it makes me feel like I’m reacting slower because I’m wondering when it will start.  

Tripper > facw 09/10/2020 at 14:40

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Yeah I don’t have a good answer other than I just don’t like it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:46

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I had a 4-cylinder BMW as a loaner with this once, and it sounded terrible every time it restarted. My wife’s Telluride has this feature, and it doesn’t bother me (even though I notice it shutting off & turning on each time - she may not even notice at this point). I’m glad my car is too old to have it, honestly, but I don’t live in a place where I have lots of long waits at traffic lights during my commute . I deal more with stop signs.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > facw 09/10/2020 at 14:49

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Psh, if it were up to me, we’d go back to cars with manual chokes and manual spark advance knobs!

Aremmes > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:49

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I liked the auto stop/start in the second-gen Insight I drove years ago. I think it worked better there than in non-hybrid implementations because it avoided using the starter motor, instead using the much larger motor-generator to start the engine seamlessly. I’ve heard other cars with auto stop/start at traffic lights going ka-ka-ka-ka-vroom as they try to get back to running, and it doesn’t sound good.

E90M3 > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:49

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I’ve found them to be very dimwitted and clunky. The first car I encountered with it was a 2013 Mercedes B-class that I rented in Germany. The starting procedure for that car was, clutch in, turn key, turn off start stop.

My M3 has it, but what’s the point on a car like that. 

smobgirl > Tripper 09/10/2020 at 14:49

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It’s really unpleasant when trying to make an unprotected left in some cars. 

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 09/10/2020 at 14:50

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To add:

It’s more about being able to sprint off the line when I want, and not have to wait the full second before anything happens. It’s a ful l “one -onethousand” between taking my foot off th e brake, and the car moving forward. I know that sounds petty and insignificant, but it can make the difference between making a gap, and not.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:54

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I would say my one question/concern is how much extra wear and tear is it placing on the starter, internal parts, etc.? Maybe none, maybe starters are better now (I’ ve never replaced one in any car, my dad I think put one in his 298k mile van) so maybe this isn’t even really an issue. But still.

That being said, my wife’s car has it and I don’t mind it, like, I won’t disable it. But I do find myself questioning it’s choices sometimes . For example, I will come to a stop behind a stopped car, but the light ahead has already turned green, so I know I will be moving again in literally 1 or 2 seconds. It stops. Other times I’ll come to a stop and know I’ll be stopped for a while and for whatever reason (some internal parameter not met), it won’t stop. It’s like this is the perfect time to stop and save gas, but no, you won’t do it!!!

WilliamsSW > nermal 09/10/2020 at 14:54

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Execution varies quite a bit in my experience. We had a 2015 X3 that was kinda jerky and slow when it restarted, and my wife hated it.

My 2014 E550 is pretty smooth, although the lag at a light is a bit longer than I would like. I recently had a 2020 GLB that was closer to the BMW (maybe worse).

Not so coincidentally the 550 has a silky smooth v8, vs the ball bearings in a coffee can the GLIB had.

PowderHound > nermal 09/10/2020 at 15:12

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My only experience with it is being next to someone at a light with it. I always forget it’s a thing and end up thinking they stalled their car

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > nermal 09/10/2020 at 15:30

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I think with the “on when you hit the clutch” method it could work. My only experience with it was in a Mercedes g300c or what ever the mid range CUV is called. It was a rental. The hesitation between me hitting the gas and it taking off drove me nuts. I had to shut it off 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 09/10/2020 at 15:31

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That exactly how I felt with it. That little hesitation just felt as wrong

Also sometimes I’d try to compensate for it by pushing the gas farther then get a big jerk forward once it did start

Dusty Ventures > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 09/10/2020 at 15:31

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I think it makes sense on a manual for that very reason. You have that pause it takes to depress the clutch and put it in first anyway, why not use it to start the engine as well

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Snuze: Needs another Swede 09/10/2020 at 15:35

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They definitely put beefier startes on cars with start stop. Some even tow the car along with just the starter motor before the engine starts 

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Dusty Ventures 09/10/2020 at 16:00

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Can’t argue with that. Mines a DSG though so no such delay.

Zaphod's Heart of Gold > nermal 09/10/2020 at 16:33

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Have Jeep with this feature, also manual, also have no problems with it.  Most people hate it but by the time the clutch is in and I have it in gear it’s ready to take off so no issues for me.

Zaphod's Heart of Gold > smobgirl 09/10/2020 at 16:34

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In a manual if you need to go quickly just hold in the clutch, engine does not die.  At least not on the Jeep system.  IMO it works very well as OP states.

smobgirl > Zaphod's Heart of Gold 09/10/2020 at 17:03

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Yeah, my main experience with it is in rental cars so there’s no chance of seeing how it works in a manual. I’ve pretty much always had the “foot on gas - wait forever - lurch forward” experience.

Future next gen S2000 owner > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 09/10/2020 at 17:21

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I’ve found, if you release some brake pressure it’ll fire the engine and won’t kick off. Useful if you anticipate going for a small gap. That’s how the Buick works at least.

subexpression > nermal 09/10/2020 at 17:21

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The only cars with automatic start/stop that I’ve driven had pretty small engines, which were not very smooth or quiet when they started and stopped. If they had been then I probably wouldn’t have minded.

Future next gen S2000 owner > nermal 09/10/2020 at 17:21

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I like auto start/stop as well.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/10/2020 at 17:25

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Right. I’m saying if I’m trying to leave the line as fast as possible, and the car is off, when I take my foot off the break and onto the gas, even quickly, there’s more of a delay than I want. Because what I want is zero delay.

for Michigan > nermal 09/10/2020 at 17:50

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When I had a new Z4 loaner, I liked the start/stop. Ever since, I sit at a light i n rush hour and think about how much fuel I’m burning when my engine could just be off.

Future next gen S2000 owner > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 09/10/2020 at 17:53

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Right. Yeah, that delay will happen.

Urambo Tauro > nermal 09/10/2020 at 19:58

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I have NOT driven a car with stop/start yet... how much of a hesitation is there when it’s time to start moving again? Does it take a second to start back up? A second-and-a-half? Cuz I’ve noticed other cars in traffic turning off and back on again, but I can never tell how much of the apparent hesitation to accelerate is just driver reaction time. As I try to imagine what it would be like to have a car with this feature, I keep coming back to the conclusion that e ven jus t a half- second delay would be too much for me.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 09/10/2020 at 23:26

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I actually think it makes more sense in a stick as it starts when you press the clutch as he said, not when you step on the gas.

i86hotdogs > Snuze: Needs another Swede 09/11/2020 at 05:19

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For the 3.5 Ecoboost, they “ beefed” up the crank bearings by implementing a coated bearing originally intended for just the high output Raptor/Navigator engine. So makers do improve the internals to ensure the start/stop doesn’t wear it down.

i86hotdogs > nermal 09/11/2020 at 05:20

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I’ve noted this on the FP and was reamed for it. I don’t like it because I like my car running unless I turn it off. I understand the benefits for it, and it’s been improved and practically problem free, but I just don’t like it. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > i86hotdogs 09/11/2020 at 07:50

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Interesting, I didn't know that.