DOTS: Poor Poor Gladiator Edition

"Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available" (whoistheleader2) 09/08/2020 at 14:08 • Filed to: Dots, atlanta, Gladiator

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Poor thing. Look at it! Look at what they’ve done to it! Shaking with hormone addled rage, the forcibly drugged Gladiator trembles in its tacky plastic armor as it rolls out into public.

That has got to be one of the ugliest Gladies I’ve ever seen. Ugh, people have wasted no time in making them entirely tasteless. The first few I ever saw were lifted on big wheels and small tires, a trend that has not subsided. Like, what even is that Transformers wannabe windshield thing?

This was somehow the least tasteful thing I saw Saturday and I walked through a donk show.

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I need a palette cleanser. I didn’t visit Midtown where many of the more interesting rides are.

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This beautiful old Volvo 240 should do. It’s an early model painted a brilliant pastel yellow.

Ah, just a subtly resto-modded Pontiac GTO tearing through downtown with a ragged old Camaro for company.

This has got to be the cleanest Caprice Roadmaster (Thanks Fintail) I’ve seen in a while. Oddly, it’s not even a wagon, as the sedans seem to be less common.

This Oldsmobile Ninety Eight four door hardtop had a perfect patina. The following cars were seen entering the donk show that I didn’t include for length.

Big old barges, floating by on the river.

What is this? Pontiac something or other. I want to say Lemans but I’m not sure. Whatever the case, it is undoubtedly orange.

Turbineguy recognized this as a mid 70s Pontiac Grand Ville four door sedan. Sweet! They came in hardtop form too.

I really wonder why the city tolerates such brazen sideshow activities taking place downtown but with racial tensions this high it’s probably best that the police hang back. A single officer in an ATV was holding back traffic for these unregistered dirtbikes, quad bikes, and ATVs.

None of these photos are credited because there is now a slider for in-house-art to not credit

I estimate that there were about 100 of them and the crowd anonymity was strong here. I’ll admit that simultaneous quad bike wheelies are impressive but I’d prefer for them to be on the right side of the road and not on city streets.

So, Oppo, as usual, which car would you drive home? The Pontiac GTO is the obvious choice but that Olds really appeals to me.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:14

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1. Volvo

2. Camaro

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:14

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*scratches Atlanta off list of cities to go to*

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:16

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Revzani wannabe?

Dealing with “sideshows” really presents a challenge, but you at least have to safely-as-possible stop and ticket one or two, right? To let others know there’s not a 100% chance of getting away with completely illegal, dangerous (to themselves and others) activity.

I’ll admit, it’s fun to watch (from afar).

onlytwowheels > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:17

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No love for the Cutlass convertible???

And that is a crime what they did to the Gladiator.

fintail > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:17

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Caprice is a Roadmaster :)

Pontiac might be a Catalina?

I bet the driver of that Jeep is a real peach, too. Taken to that extreme always makes me think frustrated shouty 30-something working for dad, the barbed wire/kanji tattoos not aging well.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:19

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When you have  a Gladiator, but you also want to look like you’re driving in Star Fox 64, all you gotta do is swipe the credit card.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:24

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The orange car looks like an early 70s Grand Ville. 

Tripper > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:25

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Man that jeep looks like a super sweet remote controlled truck...but it’s a “real” truck, so I hate it.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 09/08/2020 at 14:33

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Hey!

I love this city but a specific subset of its automotive culture makes it hard to appreciate the others. I mean the day before I saw a 914 and a classic rolls in traffic. It’s not all donked Polaris RZRs  festooned with neon.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 14:34

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Really, you’d take the Camaro over the GTO? It was a ice build though with the intentional patina, but GTO!

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/08/2020 at 14:37

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I think that comparison is a compliment to the driver of that abomination .

With racial tensions so high and the roughly 98% black riders, it’s best to hang back. Lots of buildings still haven’t replaced their windows since the riots , including the CNN center, so we had better not have another conflict kicked off by pulling over a dirt bike rider downtown in front of a crowd of 200 angry people.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 09/08/2020 at 14:39

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I think you would have to max out quite a few credit cards to get something that tasteless. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Tripper 09/08/2020 at 14:40

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^this

That would be fun to launch off a a ramp with a remote control and not much else.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:40

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My brain imprinted on the 70's/80's cars growing up, not the 60's cars. The Camaro just looks better to me.

I don’t think the Gladiator looks good from the factory, b ut agree, that owner needs to be waterboarded until he repents.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 09/08/2020 at 14:42

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Ding ding ding!

Four door sedan, not a hardtop, but yeah like this.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > fintail 09/08/2020 at 14:44

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Turbineguy got it. It’s a Grand Ville

Dang it, Ro admaster, now I should have known that.

Gladiator driver might be that. I think that is honestly being a little kind.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:53

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I get that the situation is still tenuous but permitting lawlessness just encourages others to see what they can get away with during this time...

The mayor’s address during the riots really stuck with me.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/30/keisha-lance-bottoms-full-address-atlanta-protests-vpx.wgcl

McMike > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 14:54

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That Gladiator:

4/5

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 15:08

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They both have their appeal but I didn’t grow up with any of them. Some day I’ll be complaining about exterior design peaking in 2000. I don’t think anyone can argue that era was renowned for its interior design but there were some exceptions.

Haha, someday this will be the good ol’ days for me. It doesn’t lookk terribly appealing yet but it will one day.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/08/2020 at 15:21

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Thank you, I had not seen that particular interview. It really does drive home the point you’re making. It’s a difficult situation with no easy answers but people have been doing this for a long time. A crackdown might be taken wrong. Here’s a video from a year ago.

It’s so hard for officers to act when they are in a large crowd like that and you can’t exactly get into a chase with a motorcycle in a police utility without failure or injury to the rider.  

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > McMike 09/08/2020 at 15:23

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Haha, yeah, needs more lightbar for max douche-dozer look. 

fintail > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 15:25

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I was thinking Grand Villes were all hardtops, like in your example - but I could be wrong. Such a beak.

Yeah, I can make other seemingly baseless but not improbable assumptions about the Gladiator driver, too.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 15:29

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ROADMASTER!!! GIB

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 15:36

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yah, we’ll be bitching about ‘back in our day’.

Altima Coupe? That and the Nissan G35 look great now. Except for that weird chrome pencil mustache in the grill.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 15:44

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Exactly. That 2000s sleekness looks better every day while even 5-10 years ago it was just so passe. It’s honestly quite alarming.

And these will never not be absolutely brilliant with the V6.

I kind of make a game of trying to predict which cars will be truly iconic and I don’t think the Altima coupe is it. The Accord coupe ? Cult classic.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > fintail 09/08/2020 at 15:48

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Hmmm, I cannot find a picture of one with pillars so maybe it was called a separate model name?

I think you can make seemingly baseless but probably not improbably about the driver of this car too.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 15:52

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huh. I actually like the Altima Coupe (minus the stache ) better than the Accord. Both are pretty rare.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > fintail 09/08/2020 at 15:53

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Could it be a Catalina with a Grand Ville front clip?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 15:57

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Personally I think they are both rather good looking  but I think the Accord has held up better. The rear window situation on the Altima Coupe always reminded me of the oval Fords.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 16:00

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It’s definitely a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation (and the riders know it).

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 09/08/2020 at 16:01

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Good choice. I haven’t seen a sedan that nice in years. And p u r p l e is just perfect.

McMike > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 16:06

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Yeah, it’s missing light bars, a stinger, and wild graphix. I almost gave it a 3/5, but SO MUCH BODY BITS. The angry grill/sun visor and those fenders added a little.

It’s a soft 4.

5/5 are usually saved for SEMA Jeeps.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 16:08

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I can’t imagine a conversation with a person that would do that to a vehicle. It’s also scary they can vote or procreate (likely with a stripper).

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > McMike 09/08/2020 at 16:17

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Weird windshield ornament and low poly wheel flairs. . . soft 4 is a good rating. You should see what people do to Polaris Slingshots around here. It needs that sort of neon treatment. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 09/08/2020 at 16:21

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Indeed. That’s a face only a blithering idiot could love.

fintail > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 16:22

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I am not an expert on Pontiacs, google will be my friend I think :) I did find this pic claiming to be a 71 Catalina - the primered car you post below is newer (notice the bumper):

And yeah, donk devotees are easy to make an educated guess about too - I find them more amusing than the oddly aggressive Jeepbros anyway. Donks are about having fun, Jeeps with angry eyes and gobs of Chinesium plastic are about rough and tumble tough cosplay, get out of my way.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > fintail 09/08/2020 at 16:34

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Got me there.

Eh, I see a lot of them being driven aggressively through traffic right with the Jeep bros. There’s two kinds. The kind who just want to have fun so they build something like this: (still not as cool as lowrider guys in my opinion)

And people who build things like this who take themselves way too seriously. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 16:40

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ooh, good eye for detail! Never noticed the rear window. yeah, the oval Ford Taurus wasn’t good.

I think that rear window to trunk transition especially looks good on the Altima. It’s concave, giving the car a feeling of forward motion compared to the convex Accord which looks static.

Trying to articulate my reasons. The G35 is better looking than the Altima, especially the front end but both have simpler, flowing curves. The angular lines of the Accord don’t look cohesive to me.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 16:54

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It just looks sinister to me somehow...like stealthy scary

fintail > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 17:05

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I guess I don’t see that Challenger or a similar later model Mopar/Camaro etc as a real donk. To me, a donk is a big 70s-90s American car on pointlessly huge wheels, with cheerful bright color schemes, made for cruising and posing, and pretending to be nothing but cruising and posing mobiles.  Maybe that’s why I tolerate those more (lowriders too), no false pretense, not trying to be intimidating.

Modern muscle on big wheels seems to be a thing for suburban highway road ragers.

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 17:11

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The 244 could be anywhere from ‘80 - ‘ 85, depending on trim level (or even a 1978 - 79, if it’s a 264, which is unlikely).

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 17:21

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I have an odd like for the flying buttresses on that gens Maxima. This reminds me of that. It is a nice transition but the window is just a little too oval and a little too small.it does give a good impression of motion as you said.

The Accord coupe of that gen is just a nicely proportioned car with no fussiness. And it came with a 6 speed on the V6.

I don't think either of us are saying they were bad cars so it might be down to personal preference. Nissan sold tons of those Altima coupes and Honda did a brisk business with the Accord, but almost all of the coupes were four cylinder autos. 

McMike > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 17:30

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Re: Slingshots.

Remember those extended-swingarm custom Ha yabusa owners from 10-15 years ago?

They all had to sell their bikes when they got married/had kids, and now have Slingshots.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > McMike 09/08/2020 at 17:57

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There are still some douchey extended bike owners around. I presume it is those that I occasionally see. In their defense, those are pretty cool looking in person even when customized half to death.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > fintail 09/08/2020 at 18:23

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The one I posted isn’t really a true donk but it seems the more modern the car / more cheap vinyl appliques present, the more the driver acts like a douche. No one wants to weave a 70s land barge with no sidewall and compromised handling down a crowded interstate but I see that often with Chargers and their like on massive chrome floaters.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 18:36

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“flying buttresses” - oh, you have the terminology. That gen Maxima did not come in a coupe, right? Couldn’t find any photos. I’m not clear on what you’re referring to with flying buttress. The 4-door Maxima, G35, Altima don’t look good to me.

yeah, personal preference. For example, your “no fussiness” - I find the Accord details a bit fussy. Like the pentagonal angles on the grill which doesn’t blend into anything adjacent.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 18:45

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I’m talking about the sedan only Maxima with the stupid sunroof. So much flying buttress that it needed a landing strip on the roof.

I’ve actually always liked the styling of the Maxima better than the Altima. Sort of a 2000s urban chic look but with a dash of appealing chunkiness. Put this exterior and interior design next to a contemporary Ford and you can see why they sold so many of them.

There is valid criticism to both designs but I do prefer one of those by a considerable margin. The Accord just falls nicely to my eye. The facelifted ones were where it got fussy.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 18:51

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wow - did not know about that sunroof.

yeah, personal preference - not a fan of the Maxima, especially the overly thick D-pillar base.

I see what you mean about that Accord Coupe - definitely cleaner compared to what came after.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 19:15

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We seem to be coming to a consensus .

Maxima = bit overwrought

Altima coupe = flawed but neat

Accord coupe = great driver

fintail > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 20:50

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Modern Mopar muscle, especially with wraps/decals and big wheels, are the brotrucks of the car world. A Corvette or Mustang can nose in now and then, but 98% of it seems to be Charger/Challenger/300.

Funny, these are often the same people who claim they “don’t give a #$@%” about what other people think, but damn they just beg for attention on the road. Just like the brotruck (and dbag Jeep etc) cult, stanced/ lowered German car dopes, vapebro Subie fam, etc.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > fintail 09/08/2020 at 21:48

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There’s stuff to dislike about just about every automotive subculture but some more than others. I mean the Dodge Challenger makes a ton of sense in Atlanta as it is a cheap and stylish car that stands out comparatively even when every third car is a Challenger/Charger and they deal with the bumpy city streets well. It’s the fact that people tend to treat the accelerator like an on/off switch because they’re all autos and they want the revs for their kicks that contributes to a lot of the lead footed shenanigans.

For instance, there are probably a few douchey hipster types that would run a f intail Merc into the ground but they are few and far between compared to, say, a riced out Civic or an idiot on a dirtbike. I mean I haven’t met a Citroen owner that wasn’t thrilled to talk about the cars with me because it’s hard enough to own those cars that they have a more well balanced understanding of their place in the automotive ecosystem. Clapped out Mustangs are dime a dozen so people who like to do burnouts at Cars and Coffee often end up in them and run over someone. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 22:06

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Consensus?  No way in this day and age!  I may just have been being overly agreeable.  Actually, your summary is fine. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/08/2020 at 22:31

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Style is so subjective and shaped by personal taste to a degree that talking about it objectively isn’t very useful. I can say “I like how the angles converge on common points at either end and give it a forward thrust” while you might say the same thing is a result of the Altima coupe’s swooping lines. Saying, “it bad hraaa! ” is just so unhelpful, which i why I enjoy conversations like this. It’s funny how we seem to get the same effects from different designs in this case.

I don’t think anyone will disagree that the Accord V6 was much more reliable and the driving dynamics were very good in comparison even if the Altima wasn’t too shabby itself. They were quite evenly matched in the day but I think one of them has aged much better. The Altima is still thoroughly rooted in the mid 2000s which can be a good or bad thing while I think that gen of Accord still feels pretty modern.

fintail > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 22:37

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Stuff to snark and mock at the very least.  Nothing wrong with a stock Challenger, they are a lot of bang for the buck, as you mention.  It’s when the flamboyance comes out that things tend to go off the rails.

Most old stanced/lowered MBs don’t bug me, as the new owners aren’t messing with pristine low mileage time capsules, rather, old cars with a foot in the grave already.  I’d rather see it modified than crushed or sinking into the ground.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > fintail 09/08/2020 at 22:43

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Right you are there. It’s the flashy and insubstantial mods meant to impress and convey an idea of flamboyant wealth that I dislike. I’m all for fun in cars.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/08/2020 at 23:09

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Subjective and personal taste - absolutely. I completely agree about learning and talking about terms like flying buttresses and trying to articulate what exactly appeals is interesting.

I learned about the oval rear window and the weird sunroof here (I can’t get pubic hair shave patterns out of my mind when I hear landing strip though).

“Altima coupe’s swooping lines” - yeah, to me, those are not swooping. They’re pretty restrained, graceful. I like square cars and straight lines (like that Volvo 240) but the Accord Coupe’s straight lines don’t come together cohesively in it’s overall design.

No argument about build quality, reliability, driving of Honda in general. But Honda’s styling went downhill after the NSX, S2000. IMO, that Accord Coupe kind of represents the early stages of the decline. I agree that it’s much cleaner and better looking than later Honda. Just not as clean and cohesive as the lines on the Altima Coupe/G35.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/09/2020 at 00:21

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1) Yes

2) TMI read more of TTYYMMNN’s Wingspan to cure that association.

3) Granted. Gentle compound curves. The design is cohesive even if I feel the rear window 8s out of proportion a bit. It’s a good looking car and Nissan in the 2000s was making some modern and stylish cars. They get a bad rap but they were cheap, good looking, capable, and often surprisingly fun and or fast. If you kept up in maintenance they could last a long time.

4) The S2000 is a great styling benchmark for 2000s Honda. I t still looks pretty modern honestly. I really think FCA, Ford and Hyundai/Kia are the only ones making decent cohe siv e designs that aren’t waaaay too busy. I mean a Toyota CHR is bad at everything and it has the single least pleasant second row I’ve experienced (jail cell like windows, look it up and be horrified) yet people buy that crap. The Hyundai Venue makes those same compromises with more utility and fun in a good looking package. The current Japanese styling trends drive me crazy except for rare cases. I don't want my car to look like an anime character. I think the Accord is still one of the last bastions of good restrained Japanese design. Including the current one as those proportions are great even if the chrome front is a lot to take in. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/09/2020 at 16:12

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Kia is doing good design because they got that head designer from Audi.

I think all of the mainstream automakers are doing way too busy/anime designs and they all look the same and they all look bad. As a car guy, I can’t tell the new cars apart anymore.

I had to google current Accord - you’re right, that does not look bad. Maybe even good.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/09/2020 at 16:28

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It’s a touch too much on the front end but it’s pretty low so it seems to lean forward in a way you don’t often get on modern cars.

Rear is ok but I think it looks pretty good from the 3/4 views. I don’t think photos quite do the proportions justice even if the small details are a little fussy. Interior design is really good too.

My brother’s girlfriend bought a CHR. Said she couldn’t see out of a Corolla (hahaha). Ever sat in the back of one of those things? It’s terrible. It’s like being in a jail cell with a tiny skylight. I think that car is representative of everything wrong with modern cars. It’s really bad at doing everything! It’s also butt ugly inside and out and is pretty impractical for having a hatch.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/09/2020 at 22:24

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I like that current Accord. They’ve gotten down how to do classic lines and proportions of the overall car. Rear end detailing looks like every other car though . Front end is good, understated .

I never have any opinions on interior design other than when it’s very bad.

I can’t imagine a Corolla can have worse outward visibility than that CHR. It looks like it has about as much outward visibility as my Transit.

It also looks like it has no rear headroom. My Transit has great headroom.

I don’t like CUVs/SUVs so I do believe everything you say about the CHR. Your brother’s GF just wanted a CUV, not a car and accepts (or is in denial about ) all those negatives.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/10/2020 at 00:13

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Interior design is something I notice more on a scale of 1-5 rather than 1-100 like I do exterior styling but I do notice it. I just have more tolerance between levels of bad-meh-ave rage-good-great while I can explain why I like or dislike an exterior design better. I do love myself a colorful interior, even if it is just a well balances two tone brown and black like my car. BTW the first gen Cruze had a great interior for the segment. I’ve got probably the best color combo with two tone tan and black cloth/dash inserts on dark reddish orange exterior.

I don’t want to sound like an old man but all the CUVs look the same. Maybe the Venue gets away with it but most are just oddly disharmonious. Terrible proportions on most but I think the Hyundai Venue is actually well proportioned. Basically the closer a fwd based crossover is to a hatchback the more I like it. Some SUVs I understand the appeal of (I almost bought an old body on frame pathfinder in green before my Cruze) but after getting used to a proper road car the driving dynamics aren’t very attractive to me.

And my God the CHR is the worst offender of all! It did have headr oom though and I'm 6'0" dead. Hard to tell about legroom with a short driver. And they might as well have saved weight by not including the rear and side windows. Absolutely useless and that hatch doesn't do squat for usability with that rake. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/10/2020 at 17:36

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I really hadn’t thought much about exterior and especially interior design until this conversation. I thought I didn’t think of interior design at all until I remembered my Audi S4 has the black with the bright Nogaro blue Alcantara interior. Which I really like. (pic isn’t my car )

I knew the Cruze predecessor, Cobalt I think, was not much for anything. Didn’t know the Cruze had a decent interior.

I had to google Venue images. ugh. They did the same as the Cherokee with the headlights but worse.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/10/2020 at 17:51

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Ooooh, that blue is really good! I like the color matched shift boot. I hope the exterior is the same color.

This is from the day I got it. I installed some LED lights under the seats that I usually have on a color cycle that look amazing at night.

Pretty much the first car in its class to have a soft touch dash with high quality materials like that.

Pretty good for a nearly 10 year old compact car. It’s a comfortable place to spend time even in the backseat.

And imagine that with this color

Plus they handle pretty well.

In person the Venue has the proportions of a first gen CRV except without the ground clearance. It’s pretty good looking for a CUV. Much smaller than it looks.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/10/2020 at 17:55

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I didn’t add the matching shift boot to mine. That dude has to have the Nogaro exterior. I can’t imagine that interior going with anything else.

That’s a good interior on yours.  Yes, even better would be the red exterior/interior.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/10/2020 at 19:20

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Is yours the same color on the outside? I really question it if you could get that on an exterior paint color that isn’t blue or maybe black.

Thank you. I think it looks quite nice for an 8 year old compact car. It helps that it was one of the first cars to get that style of interior that GM stuck with until only very recently.

I see just a bit of classic lines sticking out of the garage in this photo. What is that? I’m getting German vibes. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/10/2020 at 19:53

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Yah, same color. It’s quite a deep bright blue in real life. This photo is from a long time ago.

Most people who got Nogaro interiors got the Nogaro paint. I’ve seen a few black cars with the Nogaro interior.

“I think it looks quite nice for an 8 year old compact car” - you’re right - that interior still looks modern and good.

ha! good eye. Kinda. I’ve had an 87 E30, 04 T&C, 98 Grand Caravan, 92 Caravan, 03 Stohr Prototype-class racer, 98 Forester, 02 Odyssey, 00 S4 in that garage. You can probably guess which is in there at that time.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/10/2020 at 21:50

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I think it would look pretty weird to have a black car with bright blue seat inserts. Not necessarily bad like I might say if it were a red car with bright blue seat inserts, but odd.

I’m going to guess the 87 E30 was in the garage but the the taillights look a little odd in that photo.

Also, an 03 Stohr like this? That’s a pretty crazy looking machine. What sort of racing did you do with it?

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/10/2020 at 23:49

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Agree. The black cars with blue interior are not common.

It’s the 98 Forester daily driver in the garage.

Sorry. I implied the Stohr was mine. The friend who keeps his Jeep at my current house in Colorado kept his Stohr in my garage in Milwaukee. But yeah, your pic was his Stohr. He did track days. He’s got an Elise and the Stohr was obviously on another level on the track. He’s trying to get me to strip my E30 and do ChumpCar or something . My S4 is just too heavy with too much power for track use.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/10/2020 at 23:58

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I think the black cars with the blue interior are rare for a reason. It takes a special kind of person to like that enough to buy one in that configuration.

I never would have guessed the Forester. There wasn’t much showing to guess from.

I’ve been on a track or even watched autocross but I do know stripping and caging a car is a major commitment. You don’t want to do that unless you are absolutely sure you want it like that. That’s a seriously cool thing to get to keep for a friend though. I’d probably spend a lot of time out there just looking at it. Have you ever gotten to drive it?

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/11/2020 at 00:08

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hm. Unique psychology? They’re outwardly introverts but want to express themselves with the interior?

I was surprised you were looking at the corners of my photo - I had to magnify the original photo to figure out what car was in the garage .

My E30 kinda has a stripped interior already - it’s a Georgia car so the interior leather is pretty trashed from the sun.

My friend is really short so there was no point in even trying to fit in there. He didn’t have a great place to keep the Stohr and trailer in Chicago after I moved to Colorado - both got stolen out of a U-Store-It lot. He only got the trailer back. The Stohr community is pretty small so I’m a bit surprised no one turned in the thief.

What car did you track?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/11/2020 at 00:17

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I have met people who are introverts until they hear x car fact that shows you know something and are happy to tell you about whatever they have. Given most of the time it is a manual Veloster I can’t imagine there was much market for that kind of interior/exterior contrast. I’m amazed the bean counters let it happen.

I usually don’t but I scrolled past the image a lot in this long conversation.

Did you live in Georgia and drive it up or is a southern import for the rust belt? The sun is seriously hard to interiors and paint around here (I’m Atlanta area). As an example, here’s what 8 years does to a Ford steering wheel around here, as per my brother’s 2012 Ford Fusion. And it even had a sunshade and/or was almost continuously under a tarp for two of those years.

That really sucks. I can’t imagine selling it would have been easy. So they abandoned the trailer after they were done with the car? Sucks that you couldn’t take it for a spin. Have you spent much time on the track?

You misread. I’ve never been on a track and never even watched an autocross. Most I’ve done is some gravel parking lot drifts.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/11/2020 at 00:45

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“I’ve been on a track or even watched autocross” - ah, I see the cause of our confusion. You left out the word “never” in your sentence. (yeah, I have a need to be overly pedantic).

Most people who are deeply into any hobby or subculture are very happy to talk your ear off. I’ve run into a few who just tell you to get lost. ah yeah! - the Veloster is a good car for extroverts.

Nah, I’ve only lived in the midwest around Lake Michigan (IL, IN, WI, MN) until I moved to CO. The car is a transplant from GA. Speaking of which, my friend’s (ex-Stohr owner) wife is from GA. She says just about everyone in her family/relatives all got COVID and a grandma or aunt or something died.

yah, now that I’m in CO, the sun quickly kills things out here too. All my cars are garaged. His Jeep sits in the sun though. At least he’s getting free storage. I’m surprised at the Fusion after only 8 years though. Maybe because Ford?

yeah, they abandoned the trailer and the police got it back. He never got the Stohr back. I don’t even know if he had insurance on it.

After I bought the Audi, I joined the Audi Club and BMW CCA and did a lot of track days for a few years. I increased the power on the S4 too much, beyond my abilities and beyond the braking (even with big brakes) and cooling system capabilities which is why I bought the lightweight, low power E30 planning that for track use but never got around to it.

If you’ve got the money, you should do track days. It’s fun as a lot of people here write about. I don’t really find much fun in watching cars race.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/11/2020 at 10:51

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I typed that sentence on mobile. I probably typed “never” and pressed backspace. You know what I mean. Yeah I was definitely to blame for that misunderstanding.

Odd thing is is that it was the introverts I know that drive Velosters.

I went to a private HS in the northern suburbs and fortunately am in college this year. Everyone up there has a real COVID problem, as in they seem to think masks are a conspiracy and they keep having to quarantine large segments of the student and teacher population. Here in Atlanta everyone wears them all the time (except when in line to get into a club, ick) and social distancing is very good. I feel safer in the city honestly.

Though the frats here are hotbeds and keep almost getting us shut down. They released some figures; nearly 50% of cases were fraternity/sorority members and nearly 50% of cases were from exposure to a roommate with COVID. I think you can see the logical conclusion there.

My brother’s Fusion has extreme UV damage on every surface of the interior. It’s insane. The thing was like that after only 6 years when he bought it and he’s kept it under a tarp most of the time since then (being away at college) so its condition hasn’t really degraded. My Cruze is the exact same age and only has a little bit of degradation on the finish of some of the plastic buttons and it has spent way more of its time outside not to mention being substantially cheaper when new. I am going to chock that up to Ford build quality. I’ve been around a lot of Fords and not one of them has not had catastrophic build quality issues and/or major mechanical maladies. Even brand new F150s often have leaky sunroofs and seals. I don’t understand why people put up with it in the year of our Lord 2020 but they do.

Track days are something I’d really like to do one day (or maybe autocross as that requires less investment in safety equipment etc) but I’m currently a broke college student with a slow fwd compact car. It does look like I might be able to get into something more exciting late this year or early the next (my parents are probably going to buy it off me as I don’t use it much and my mom’s Volvo is on its last legs). At any rate I won’t be having the funds for much modification anytime soon. Honestly I just want a fun driver. I would love to get some time cone bashing one day soon but I just don’t have the car for it. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/12/2020 at 16:08

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It actually bothers me that I had the need to point out that error and it was because you said I misunderstood. I could not let it slide. I’m working on things like that .

I have no connections to young people so have no personal knowledge of what’s going on with them. Other than what you just told me. Yeah, going to a club or any confined space is not going to be a good idea for the next year or so. I’ve gone to restaurants but they’ve been operating with distancing and masks.

Did you ever find any product that has some science behind UV protection for plastics? It surprises me after building cars for 100 years, a major company still doesn’t get it right. Maybe there is some truth to that FORD Found On the Road Dead stereotype.

Slow cars are the best way to learn how to drive. With high power cars, it’s way too easy just to use your right foot instead of learning technique . I found that out with the Audi and therefore got the E30. My Stohr friend tracked his Elise and he found it annoying that Corvette drivers would not let him pass on the straights (Elise didn’t have enough power) but then slowed him down on the corners. Found the only pic I have of his car as I was moving .

As a broke college kid, autocrosses might still be possible. Track days get expensive with the fees and you run through so much more consumables. And it’d have to be a small, tight track with your slow compact car. You probably have more power than my E30.

This conversation is my record for length on any online forum.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/12/2020 at 16:51

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I’ve very much enjoyed this conversation thread. Part of the reason I like Oppo is that any number of y’all might say something interesting enough to kick off a conversation like this. I’ve had a few around this long but most were more picture heavy.

Yes, we all have our weaknesses, but clarifying the misunderstanding wasn’t something I took offense at. Some people take errors more seriously than others. I’m somewhere in the middle there.

It’s not freshmen in college like me that are going clubbing but late 20s early 30s urbanites seem to have a thing for them. Ordinarily that’s fine but long queues of maskless people are stretching out into the streets at some of the more popular spots in midtown and downtown Atlanta.

More horsepower? Maybe. 136 might be good for a 90s car but a 2012 Chevy Cruze weighs 3000 lbs with the automatic and gets it a power to weight ratio of 22 pounds per horse. It’s handling prowess did let it dominate the world touring car championship for years and it even used the same engine as mine albeit with like twice the power so autocross could be fun. I’d need to get it on some proper tires though and the gearbox is a little fragile in these cars. Shocking considering how un derstressed they are. I definitely have enjoyed my simple small car on twisty narrow roads and attacking the apexes of parking lot barriers. Taught me a lot about parking too with its excellent visibility. It’s easier to explore the limits of a light car with linear predictable handling at the limit.

Most interior waxes help a lot and can even restore some in terior plastics.

Also, how is the Stohr like on the track? Is it a handling focused car? Like are they used similar to something like a spec Miata cup car? 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/12/2020 at 22:22

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Glad you enjoy it. Obviously I do too. I haven’t had long discussions here. You have a healthier reaction to mistakes. I’d like to be able to brush things off better. Minor and bigger things.

I was never much into the club scene. Now I’m older too. Other than restaurants, I’m not at much risk for COVID here.

Googled - 1987 325is - 168HP at 2600 lbs.. 15lbs/hp so yeah, better than your Cruze. But I bet my engine is way down on HP from new. You don’t need better tires. Autocross or track on the same tires you drive on the street lets you learn how to drive better on the street.

My cars are garaged but a friend’s 2004 Subaru is street parked and her interior does not have sun damage. Maybe it is Ford.

I only know about the Stohr from what my friend told me. His Elise is highly regarded as a good handling track car (other than power ). He says the Stohr is simply another level. No comparison. If you know how low an Elise is, the Stohr is about half that height. So a spec Miata Cup car has aboslutely no chance, not in the same discussion.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/13/2020 at 12:54

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I’m not too enthralled by large parties in general so clubbing is not likely to be something I’d enjoy. Especially with the lax precautions going on. I haven’t even really eaten at many restaurants but maybe that’s just cheapness.

The current tires I have are on their way out and produce noticeably less grip than they used to. They need to be replaced relatively soon but tires are expensive. It’s not like it is exactly a handling machine especially with the heavy steel wheels adding unsprung weight. It doesn’t stop amazingly for its weight either with rear drum brakes. That doesn’t mean it’s not fun around a corner but it might be less fun than many others. At least the steering feel is quite good for an early EPS system. No way it wouldn’t be trounced around any course, wide open or very technical, by your BMW.

Some of it is the harsh Georgia sun taking its toll on plastics, clearcoat, and paint, but most of that is on Ford as there’s no way it should be that susceptible to UV damage. Subarus seem to have strong clearcoat as they usually weather being left outside quite well. Sometimes it’s model specific faults that cause premature aging. Like 2000s Hondas and clearcoat failure or Chevy Expresses and paint falling off the hood and roof.

I just don’t know what to compare that sort of handling prowess to. I’ve seen Elises very seldom but they are in fact so low sometimes I question their presence on streets at all. I can’t imagine half that ride height. How would you ever get it on a trailer?

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 09/13/2020 at 22:11

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You just reminded me of the saying “It’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow”. I find that to be true. My 98 Forester with lowered sport suspension was fun to drive - 130HP, steelies, drum brakes and all, even when I have a 350HP (or so ) Audi to drive . The Forester was annoying on Colorado high ways - no forced induction so it was closer to 110HP at 5000 ft and took a long time to get up to 75mph.

I don’t know how to compare the handling of the Stohr. Basically that it’s a race car. I think all you can do is do well in college, get a good job, drive cars on track, and get the experience to be able to know what various levels of cars are .

Good question about loading the trail