Folding@home: Electrons Cost Money

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 09/06/2020 at 10:15 • Filed to: None

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I have two GPUs, a 1060/6GB and a 1080 ti, both installed in a Precision 5820 workstation. Our typical monthly utility bill for our home, during temperate months, is about $100. We live in the SF Bay Area and cool our home at night and close the windows during the day when it gets hot. Our home is well insulated.

The most recent two recent utility bills were $300.

Now, I realize that some of you would love a $300 utility bill, especially at the height of Summer.

Because of the quarantine, we’re home all the time and some additional power usage is to be expected. And for sure, I expected running one or two PCs and GPUs 24/7 would not be free. It turns out that running the 5820 with both GPUs folding costs minimally $78/mo in Tier 1, and $100/mo in Tier 2 of the usage-based electricity pricing. This is not sustainable for me.

Bottom line: Folding 24/7 with the two GPUs uses more electricity than my entire household uses on some days.

Actual usage is about 3.8 amps at 120 volts AC. This would be down, I assume, from having each GPU running in a separate case, particularly since I do not fold on CPU slots.

Time for Plan B. I am investigating what it would cost to set up an off-grid, “cabin”-type solar power storage that would provide entirely for the power to operate the 5820 with both GPUs. I haven’t gotten a price for that yet, but my preliminary investigation suggests $8-10k when you add in the large flooded lead acid batteries. We’re talking 3.8 amps x 24 hours is a lot of amp hours at 120 VAC. Any such system would pay for itself at $80/mo. and rather than simply buying electrons, I’d be buying a backup electrical system for my home during an extended power outage.

Anyhow, this is my report. The folding is more expensive than I’d hoped it would be and I have to figure out what to do next. I’m not folding right now because there’s a heatwave and a bunch of wildfire smoke in the air.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 10:40

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Obviously the next step is to send your folding box to a server farm somewhere with cheap power...

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 10:51

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I don’t have the fancy tools to track our power consumption, but I can tell by the temperature in the office whether or not my VMs are folding. One recently went offline and I haven’t figured out why it can’t connect. Silly thing still connects to the web, but can’t download FAH data. The other VM on the same host is still running fine. Go figure. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/06/2020 at 11:55

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One of our radiology reading rooms had like 6 workstations and 12 large monitors in a semi-enclosed room. The hospital had to install a large mini-split AC just for that part of the room otherwise it became too hot to work in .

VincentMalamute-Kim > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 11:59

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I assume that $8-10K cost is for a DIY setup? Like 4KW worth of panels? How many 100AH batteries does that need?

I thought my $75 electric bill was getting high. (obviously very different situations - single guy, no AC, just a whole house fan )

gin-san - shitpost specialist > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/06/2020 at 12:11

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I think it was July where it was brutally hot and I was running my AC and folding nearly 24/7, my electric bill came out the highest I’ve ever seen during the 6 years I’ve been here, $95.

Luckily weather has cooled down to the point where I can keep windows open and I don’t have to run the AC at all anymore.

VincentMalamute-Kim > gin-san - shitpost specialist 09/06/2020 at 12:17

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oh shut up! ;) My $75 is no AC and no Folding.  Where are you that electric is so cheap?

gin-san - shitpost specialist > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/06/2020 at 12:24

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Ottawa.

I live in a small 1 bedroom place so I never really use that much electricity to begin with, highest bills are always on the hottest/coldest months due to running the AC/heat.

VincentMalamute-Kim > gin-san - shitpost specialist 09/06/2020 at 12:30

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ah, ok. I’m in a 2400sf house .

bison78 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 12:49

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I’d be buying a backup electrical system for my home during an extended power outage.

This implies a grid-connected system, which means that you need to get the necessary permits and inspections. It might be worth doing this, because you would get your house grandfathered into NEM2. NEM2 is significantly worse than the original NEM plan, but it’s likely that, at some time an NEM3 will come along and that will be worse still (NEM2 is supposed to be an interim plan). You might consider deferring the permitting process until a successor to NEM2 is announced and then try to get into NEM2 in the last months of the plan. The grandfathering lasts 20 years.

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 13:18

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Have you considered a traditional residential solar system?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 13:22

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Our power bill during A/C season is like $7 00. We have some of the worst utility prices in the region. That's why I had my folding PC set up at my mom's (until it broke). She has a full solar installation that produces so much power that Eversource actually pays her something like $150/mo to buy the extra.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 09/06/2020 at 14:03

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Iceland. Cheap power and lots of cool air.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/06/2020 at 14:10

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Did you restart F@H client?

Nothing fancy. I typed in the daily power usage from the utility into an Excel spreadsheet. The current draw I measured with a clamp-on ammeter. This one was given to me by a friend, but I think they’re like $25-40. The only tricky bit was to use an extension cord so that I could separate the lines because for the ammeter to work, it has to be clamped around an isolated feeder.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/06/2020 at 14:15

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The $8-10 might be installed, but I’m not sure. I have pinged a couple of different sources.

Our cooling system is also whole-house fan, run at night when temps are typically in the 60s.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 14:16

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I’ ve tried restarting the client and even rebooted the machine several times. I’m a bit burned out on the computer. Twelve hour days for the last month did me in.

I’m feeling lazy these days. It’s neat to see how you gathered the data and are putting it to use. If I could automate the data collection, I might start collecting it. Maybe I just don’t really want to know.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > bison78 09/06/2020 at 14:19

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This would be an entirely standalone setup, independent of the grid. Solar panels and batteries and run my F@h server until there’s a power failure, then run power cords out to the shed to plug in my CPAP or the fridge or whatever. At least that’s what I’m imagining, cost not being prohibitive.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 09/06/2020 at 14:21

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My normal electric bill is like $100/mo, so there’s no incentive and you only get $0.000001/kwh that you pump back into the system. So it really doesn’t make any sense.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/06/2020 at 14:22

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As it should be. In California, where I live, they pay like $0.00001/kw that you put back in.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/06/2020 at 14:26

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If I weren’t so lazy, I might’ve made a decent engineer.

I’ll gather some info on a standalone solar setup and see what that uncovers. Alternatively, I’ll put the GPUs back into the Precision T7400 brontosaurus I bought this summer and haul it to school and let some public education tax dollars pay for the electrons.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2020 at 15:56

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Watch out for Steve.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/419/transcript

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/06/2020 at 16:19

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I know this episode well.

CFB > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/07/2020 at 13:48

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Same here. Got three i7 machines running with gtx 1070's, overclocked to heck and back. When I got my electric bill, it was 3x normal. And it was winter, so that heat generation helped lower my gas bill, but that wasn’t sustainable.

Like the author, I have a well insulated house, great insulated windows and keep my electric usage down.

CFB > VincentMalamute-Kim 09/07/2020 at 13:50

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I got a goal zero 1000 for $1000 bucks and a 3000 for $2500, four 100w panels and 30' of cable to go back to the goal zero unit, voila, fully off grid solar with enough battery to run my house for days without sun. Also charges from the wall, and from a car battery.

Jackery has lower prices and less proprietary shenanigans than goal zero, but I haven’t used one. The ratings are good though.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > CFB 09/07/2020 at 16:25

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 I am willing to invest something in this folding deal, but not $100 a month in electricity. Got to come up with a plan B. if I can find a standalone electrical solar solution that would power the server, I could see paying $100 a month to finance that system since it would be an emergency backup system that I could use if there were an extended power outage. For that matter, on hot days when they're talking about chopping power in California, I could plug in everything I needed to plug in in my house to that setup on hot days and take my load completely off the grid.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/08/2020 at 00:39

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I fold when I want to heat up a specific area of my house.

With the warm weather, very little folding is being done.

As for solar, I would suggest just doing a grid-tied solar system with no batteries and only running folding when it’s sunny outside.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 09/08/2020 at 01:30

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If I’m grid-tied, then the money’s not there, there are permits, yada yada . If I’m not grid-tied, then the batteries are very costly. But it’s a thought...

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/08/2020 at 10:56

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Well the nice thing about it being grid tied is even if you don’t fold, you’ll save money. I would spec a system with ‘just enough’ capacity to cover your day use given that you don’t enough back in net billing to justify a larger system.

Also consider that if you get an electric car, then you would also charge at home when it’s sunny out whenever possible.

VincentMalamute-Kim > CFB 09/08/2020 at 12:04

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Why are you gray?

1KW of batteries cannot possibly run your house for days. Google says a refrigerator uses about 150W after startup. So that would run about 7 hours on 1KWs of batteries. Not including about 15% efficiency loss of the inverter.

Mention of car reminds me of the use of an electric vehicle to run your house during a power failure.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 09/08/2020 at 21:48

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I am thinking along the lines of buying a used system from someone and setting this all up myself and not needing a permit. If I could turn my electric meter backward far enough to make actual money, I’d be all over it because we actually use very little electricity generally. This folding server turns out to be a somewhat radical departure for us. And honestly? In my lifetime, what’s left of it anyway, I am VERY unlikely to ever own an electric car. I an entirely unconvinced that electric cars or hybrids are a net gain for the planet over an efficient, well-tuned fossil burner.