Experiences with infamous engines?

"fhrblig" (fhrblig) 08/23/2020 at 20:06 • Filed to: None

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I figured this might be an interesting question to pose. Who here has owned vehicles with engines that have a bad reputation, such as the 5.4 3-valve Triton V8 or the Mopar 3.7 V6 or 4.7 V8?

I think the closest I come is probably my ‘83 Celebrity with the 2.8 60-degree V6. I don’t know that they are especially bad but I remember someone telling me they were unreliable. In any case, mine sure was reliable. That thing was damn near unkillable. At one point in my sisters’ keeping, all of the motor mounts were bad and the mechanic told her the engine was pretty much resting on the axle. We never even had carburetor problems. Now, it may have had other problems given that the Check Engine light was on for oh, about 5 years , but they never impeded it from running or getting us where we needed to go.

I could maybe count the Iron Duke from my first car, a ‘80 Pontiac Phoenix . I know I hated that miserable boat anchor. It was slow and not very efficient , but at least it was also unreliable and noisy. I don’t know that they have a real widespread rep for being unreliable though. Might just be me that hates them.

I currently have an ‘08 F-150 with the 2-valve 4.6 Triton V8 which like the 5.4 had those two-piece spark plugs that like to snap off in the head. When I had it checked by a mechanic I trust, it sounds like the factory plugs were replaced long ago with some less-stupid plugs. But other than that this engine is relatively reliable so I don’t think it quite counts.

Other than that, most of my engines have all been pretty good ones. Some have had problems but wouldn’t necessarily be considered the fault of the engine. The 3.8 Series II V6 in my LeSabre had electrical and computer problems, but I suspect it all stemmed from a shitty install of an aftermarket stereo by Circuit City. I never got to find out if my 2.4 GDi Kia Optima would develop the carbon buildup I’ve heard about in those because it got totaled by a careless high schooler. Up to that point I loved it. One of my Chevy Sprints with the 1.0 Suzuki 3-pot threw a rod, but it was certainly my fault.

I started thinking about this because of the 5.4 3-valve Triton V8. I had 4 or 5 of them in my fleet at my previous job (and a couple 4.6s) in my E-series vans, but I think these were the revised ones. A few of them made it to well over 300k and are still going strong. Only one ever spit out a spark plug like they sometimes do, and that was one that we bought from a company that wanted to outsource their deliveries. That van had been neglected, but I got all the maintenance caught up when it still had low miles on it . The incident didn’t happen till around 220k. Fortunately the driver was smart and stopped the engine immediately. We towed it to the shop and the mechanic replaced the plug. It had no further engine problems but was retired at 278k because the transmission crapped out.

So, what’s been your experiences with the worst of the worst? Did they live up to the hype, or was yours the exception?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:18

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I had a Neon and the head gasket didn’t blow. Honestly it was a gem of an engine. Only thing that would have made it better was a twin-cam.

TheJWT > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:20

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My Trans Am GTA had a Chev y 305, which might not be hated but it definitely isn’t beloved like the 350. It was slow and it burned oil from the valve seals leaking which is very common, but it was otherwise reliable enough

Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:26

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I’ve got a 3.7 Dodge v6, getting up there in miles but runs great, one water pump and a set of plugs in 3 years and 80,000 plus Km.  Shit falls off the vehicle with some regularity, but it is dead nuts reliable. 

Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 20:26

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made on a wednesday at 11:15 AM. 

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:28

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Had three Subaru EJs, never had a head gasket totally fail (though one had a slight leak, so I replaced it as preventative maintenance).

Had probably a dozen Ford 4.6s, never had a plug eject on me. I did have one of the late 90s ones with the plastic coolant crossover in the intake manifold; that exploded in a wondrous fashion.

Currently have a LR4 with the AJ-V8, no apparent timing chain issues (i hope). On the other hand I also have a BMW with the N55 and it’s as leaky as it’s famous for.

Shane Moore > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:31

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Most notoriously unreliable engine I have owned would have to be the Touareg V10 TDI. Absolutely no problems with the Powertrain for me, it was the air suspension, electrical, A/C, sensors and everything in between that drove me crazy.

Wife had an 08 Cooper S with the terribly unreliable Peugeot turbocharged 2.0. Water pump “rubber band” that drives it inside the timing chain cover broke, timing jumped a tooth and bent every single valve. Covered under extended warranty, got it fixed and that same day picked it up, drove it down the road and traded it in on a S2000.

Wife also had a cobalt that was the worst engine experience ever. Instead of a complete failure like the MINI it slowly had more and more little problems over a period of time that compounded and nickel and dimed us.

Ssfancyfresh > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:34

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I owned an Audi TT with the 1.8T with the interference head. The timing belts were notorious for having a short service life. I had mine done early and it wasn’t an issue.

The other common failure for that engine were the coil packs. Unfortunately, that one got me while I was in traffic on the way to the airport. Finished the drive on 2 cylinders. Parked the car in long term deck  and told myself “I’ll deal with this when I get back”

WilliamsSW > TheJWT 08/23/2020 at 20:36

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I always thought the 305 and 307 were reliable,  but notoriously low on power more than anything.

ClassicDatsunDebate > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:36

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My JK has the 3.8 minivan engine. It’s not horrible but it’s like if  Jim Gaffigan followed Dave Chapelle live at the Apollo.

CompactLuxuryFan > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:39

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I had an R56 Mini Cooper with one of the much dreaded BMW-PSA joint venture engines (the NA one I had may have been better) but that car didn’t live long enough to develop anything.

Then I took a first model year (2005.5) A4 2.0T past 100K with no major issues! I did have the cam follower replaced preventatively a couple of times, some minor faulty components replaced with the since-upgraded parts from newer engines, and a walnut blast . Spark plugs were what gave me the most signs of trouble but it was an easy fix.

Then I had a 335i with an N54 and sure enough the charge pipe cracked at one point and the oil filter housing gasket had started to barely weep when I sold it. But overall not bad at all! That thing really pulled!

I would own both those engines again no problem, w hich is why I now have an early BMW “ B58B30O1" aka the 382 hp “upgraded” version of the B58. No major problems have been discovered even on the B58 so I’m thinking I’ll be alright!

Urambo Tauro > TheJWT 08/23/2020 at 20:40

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The 350 in my old squarebody Su burban leaked oil too. I just kept refilling the oil periodically until... until it stalled one day and I instantly realized it had been a while since my dumb ass had put any oil in it. Sure enough, s eized motor.

WilliamsSW > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:41

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Behold the GM LT3, which sounds like a small block v8 but was actually a Brazilian built 2.0 turbo. 16 valves? Nah. Intercooler? Lol nope.

Head gasket and turbocharger were maintenance items. Blech.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:45

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I had a Subaru with the EJ25, supposed to blow through head gaskets like every 10 miles. Put 110,000 miles on that car, fixed a lot of things but the head gasket never gave us any issues.

Urambo Tauro > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:46

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I’ve only ever owned V8 s and V6 s, most of which were pretty reliable. The worst would have to be the 3.8 in a 1994 Co ugar that blew the head gaskets. Very typical failure, I soon learned. F ortunately, I caught it before it fully overheated to cause further damage . Nothing mixed with the oil; the gaskets only blew between the cylinders and water jackets. The dead giveaway that confirmed the diagnosis- th e smell of exhaust fumes in the coolant reservoir.

RacinBob > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 20:49

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The 2.8 V6 was a pretty decent engine. It never did anything bad to me in street or racing that I didn’t deserve. The Duke motor was let down because it had a fiber cam gear drive assembly that lasted maybe a 100,000 miles. However it was a big improvement over the chevy Vega 4 cyl which might be the worst ever engine.

https://altdriver.com/classics/chevy-vega-general-motors/

Unfortunately, the art of building aluminum engine blocks was in its infancy back in 1971 and the unlined cylinder walls of Vega engines were scoring almost instantly. That led to lots of oil burned and early death for this engine. Throw in haphazard build quality and sheetmetal that you could practically hear rusting away, and the Vega truly rates as one of GM’s great debacles.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 21:12

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I had a 4.7 in my 2002 Dakota, never had a problem with it. It ran great right up until it kissed the back of a semi at 129,000 miles and 13 years old.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ClassicDatsunDebate 08/23/2020 at 21:20

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So basically the 3.8 is the “hot pocket” bit of the Wrangler lineage.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 21:29

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Hardly infamous , but I do have one of the sadder modern Toyota engines sold in the US: the 1ZZ-FE, which had been known for excessive oil consumption. There were many people who were unhappy dumping in two quarts in their Corolla between changes. Had they known the inconvenience beforehand, they might have gone with a Honda.

I bought the last year the engine was sold, where the problems seemed to have been fully ironed out from ‘06 to ‘08. Coincidentally, I’ve had quite a few minor issues with the car, none of which involve oil consumption.

pip bip - choose Corrour > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 21:48

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worst engine family?

GM HFV6!

fight me!

smobgirl > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 22:13

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No comment.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 22:18

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Subaru EJ20 NA in a MY2000 SF Forester...just seen off 275,000 km and 20 years of service from brand new . Original head gasket and original clutch are still in service.

fhrblig > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/23/2020 at 22:36

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I would, but I know exactly nothing about it.

fhrblig > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 08/23/2020 at 22:37

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I live in Colorado, land of decrepit old Subarus. I probably couldn’t swing a cat without hitting a Forester like yours. They’re everywhere.

fhrblig > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/23/2020 at 22:38

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I’ve had a few cars that were supposedly prone to head gasket failure but it’s never happened to me. At least, not yet.

fhrblig > Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer 08/23/2020 at 22:40

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I think I’m one of the few people who really liked the first-gen Jeep Liberty.  We got a ton of them in when I worked for a car rental company and I wanted one.  Never did get one, but my husband’s best friend did and hers didn’t have any problems that I’m aware of.

fhrblig > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 08/23/2020 at 22:40

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I saw a lot of cheap Dodge Rams with that engine when I was looking, but all the chatter scared me off.

fhrblig > Urambo Tauro 08/23/2020 at 22:42

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Yeah, I’d heard of that with that engine. Didn’t they get put in the Taurus/Sable too ? Fortunately m y Sable had the 3.0 Vulcan lump so it was fine.

ClassicDatsunDebate > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/23/2020 at 22:43

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Haaaawt pocketttttttt

fhrblig > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/23/2020 at 22:45

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I had to look that one up, I’m not that familiar with Toyota engines.  I had a Geo Prizm with the 1.8 but it was the 7A-FE.  It did use a quart between changes, but that wasn’t that alarming for a car with 130k on it.

fhrblig > RacinBob 08/23/2020 at 22:47

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That Celebrity was a great car.  Man, that thing took a beating.  I routinely got mid-20s for MPG. That’s an estimate, because it only had a working speedometer for one of the eight years I had it.

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 22:47

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I have a 2013 MINI with the infamous engine, but no trouble at all yet at 97k. Other  than an oil pump early on in warranty and a minor coolant leak it’s one of the best cars I’ve had. 2008 NA mini before that did about 95k perfectly and was fine when I traded it for the 13.

fhrblig > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 22:48

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Is that the one from the Sunbird Turbo?

pip bip - choose Corrour > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 22:50

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all alloy disaster.

3 seperate timing chains that stretch, regularly

absolute fucking disaster

fhrblig > CompactLuxuryFan 08/23/2020 at 22:51

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I’d heard plenty of horror stories of that 2.0 (and the VAG 1.8T), glad you were unscathed.

gmctavish needs more space > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 22:52

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I don’t want to jinx myself by saying this, but I have a Mitsubishi 4G54B in my Raider, and the head hasn’t cracked. It’s even been overheated more than once, and still, no cracked head.

fhrblig > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 08/23/2020 at 22:53

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I’m not having any issues with my 4.6, except that there is a minuscule oil leak somewhere near where the air comes into the HVAC system. So when I stop at a light, I get treated to a faint burning oil scent. This engine is not using any oil whatsoever between changes and the mechanic says he can’t see it anywhere. Figures.

fhrblig > Shane Moore 08/23/2020 at 22:55

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That’s crazy about the Cobalt.  The Cavalier before it was one of those legendary GM POS’s that were junky but refused to die and most problems could be ignored for a long time.

fhrblig > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 22:57

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I rented a ‘98 Neon when I was in San Diego for Super Bowl XXXII and both my sister and I loved that car.  Somehow I never picked one up for myself, though.

WilliamsSW > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 22:58

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Yep. My first new car was a 1990 Sunbird turbo convertible. 5 speed, black with a white interior.  Fun car except for the engine problems. 

fhrblig > TheJWT 08/23/2020 at 23:00

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I thought my mom’s ‘72 Malibu coupe had that, but turns out it was the 307 . I swear I remember seeing ‘305' on the front fender, but I was like 5 years old at the time and I don’t think we have any pics of it.

fhrblig > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 23:03

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I worked with a guy in the mid 90's who bought one, he let me drive it once.  It felt like it had a lot of pep, though at the time I was driving a slow CRX DX so I don’t know if I’m a good judge.

Urambo Tauro > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:03

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I’ve heard of Vulcans popping head gaskets... had to change them on my father’s 2000 Taurus, in fact! I remember it  had puked oil into the cooling system and made a mess of the reservoir. Ended up changing the tank (after replacing the HGs) since I couldn’t get the inside of it clean enough to read the coolant level very well.

fhrblig > gmctavish needs more space 08/23/2020 at 23:06

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I still see a couple of those old Raiders wandering around here, a long with a startling number of 90's Mighty Max/Ram 50 trucks.

WilliamsSW > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:07

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It was a pretty quick car - for 1990 - with the manual.

All of the torque steer in 1st - I learned not to floor it in first unless the road was perfectly flat. 

fhrblig > Urambo Tauro 08/23/2020 at 23:09

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I didn’t really have it long enough for it to develop a bad head gasket.  My sister was using it and it ended up totaled. It was technically her fault, but not really.  She was making a left turn as a light was going from yellow to red when some ass decided to run the light and plowed into it. She got the ticket, though.  Fortunately it had an airbag, so she wasn’t hurt.

fhrblig > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 23:10

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Torque steer is fun, ain’t it? The torque steer in my ProMaster is prodigious. I feel it in just about an y gear when I put the hammer down.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:13

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Arguably the best small American car ever made.

Urambo Tauro > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:13

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I’ve been in a crash just like that (too old of a car to have an airbag though) . Didn’t get a ticket ( the other driver had open alc ohol on board...) , but t he officer gave me a stern talking-to about the true meaning of yellow lights.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:22

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I have the Toyota 3VZE. It’s head gaskets popped. It’s slow as dirt. It also gets low teens to below teens to the gallon. This checks out.

My Dad had a 3.7 Ram, and still regrets selling it. It was incredibly reliable. I think most of it’s issues were related to the people that buy Dodge products and don’t change the oil. 

WilliamsSW > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:25

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Lol - I’ve heard that some people actually like torque steer, but I'm not one of them. I converted back to RWD in 2000, and   have never looked back.

Danny Korecki > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:29

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I daily (well pre-COVID, now it i s like a garage queen ) a E92 M3.

Engine is “infamous” for rod bearing issues. Forums say that if you don’t use the exact oil formula that BMW’s marketing department engineers picked that it will make it happen faster.

I change my oil every 7k miles and 30 k+ miles (on a 30k bought used M3) later here I am.

19JRC99 > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:46

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I mean, we had a 5.4 in our 2004 F-150, but it was a lease so it was still relatively new by the end of it. Either way it was fine. The rest of the truck was great too. 

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > fhrblig 08/23/2020 at 23:48

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Ironically, my 2006 Ram  with a 5.7 hemi gave CarMax a $2500 bill when the lifters shit the bed in 2018 at around 100,000 miles. A known problem far less talked about.

RacinBob > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 00:06

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By the way, I bet your Ce le brity had the same feedback carb as my ‘84
Citation X-11. If so, the problem was likely the socketed processor and memory chip. I pulled the glove compartment screws so I could pull it every time it glowed check engine so I could rock the chip in the socket and reset the computer, I bet yours had the same issue. 

Aremmes > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 00:11

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The Explorer I had until early this year was powered by the Cologne 4.0 SOHC V6. That engine has a habit of breaking the timing chain tensioner cassettes which, while not catastrophic, cannot be repaired with the engine in place since one of the chains sits on the back facing the firewall. It also likes to break the plastic thermostat housing and leak coolant onto the valley between the heads because why not.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 00:21

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There’s not many left around here. Their very ubiquity made them worthless a decade ago and even minor mechanical or panel damage would render them an uneconomic repair. I suspect that replacing the clutch will cost more than the car is worth...

pip bip - choose Corrour > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 05:21

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i forgot to mention the Mitsubishi 4M40

2.8 diesel in Pajero & Triton

they eat glow plugs every few months. 

Long_Voyager94 > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 07:29

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Chrysler 2.7L V6.

We got it with 12k miles. Beat the ever living hell out of it, but maintained it meticulously. Had 287k miles on it and the only issue we had was a bad cat at 50k, had custom headers built to remedy the issue.

Chrysler 4.7L V8.

In my Grandpa’s 06 Ram. He’s at 253k miles on it, it’s needed a water pump and an alternator to get there. Generally ran hard, but again, maintained meticulously.

Hell even the Mitsu 3.0 that powers a lot of the early 90s Mopars I’ve owned gets a bad rep. Of the 6+ we’ve owned, I’ve had no issues. They’ve all been stout engines that take loads of abuse. The one in my car is well over 250k of abuse and is finally starting to use around 1 qt of oil between changes.

6.0 Powerstroke.

Here is an engine that lives up to the hype. This POS spent more time dead in our driveway than on the road, no amount of proper maintenance cures it’s issues. Upgrading parts keeps the major stuff going, but it will still need an injector every 6 months or so.

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 08:42

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Chrysler 2.7 v6. Bought with 80k on it and by 110k head gaskets were gone. Would have been curious to know how bad the sludge was

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 10:18

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M96 in my 996. Blew up the day before Thanksgiving 2019, although the thought is that it wasn’t an IMS bearing issue . Still trying to figure what I want to do about it.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 11:42

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It’s very likely just oil that was spilled onto the exhaust when the last change happened. Oil burning smell goes everywhere and lasts forever. 

fhrblig > Long_Voyager94 08/24/2020 at 11:45

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If you are changing the oil religiously, that seems like the ticket to make anything last almost forever. I had some minor anxiety last week because I ended up going 1k over my oil change interval on my work ProMaster , but every previous oil change has been around exactly 5k miles so I think it will be fine. I’m just paranoid about those things. It’s at 156k now, I got it new in Feb 2008.

fhrblig > Aremmes 08/24/2020 at 11:47

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My mom’s first Explorer had the 4.0, and it nearly made it to 300k with no engine problems.  It did have constant differential and driveshaft problems though.

fhrblig > 19JRC99 08/24/2020 at 11:48

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Seems like it’s another engine where if you just change the damn oil like you’re supposed to then it’s fine.

fhrblig > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 08/24/2020 at 11:50

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It’s so annoying.  I’m one of those guys who whenever I smell burning anything I immediately assume it’s my car and that catastrophic failure is imminent.

Long_Voyager94 > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 12:13

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Honestly a majority of “bad” engines can be chalked up to lack of proper maintenance IMO, same for “bad” transmissions.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > fhrblig 08/24/2020 at 22:29

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I think my parent's 1980 Malibu had the 305. I wouldn't have described it as powerful.

Stef Schrader > fhrblig 08/27/2020 at 15:02

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The QR25DE came in my Altima, which earned the nickname “Failtima” for eating not one, but two head gaskets in my brief period of driv ership (less than two years?) . It shut off the aircon to try and spare itself from more damage...in August........in Texas. We pumped it full of stop-leak when we went to trade it in and hoped the dealership wouldn’t notice. It was such a steaming pile of horseturds.