Home Renovation Advice

"Tripper" (tripe46) 07/29/2020 at 11:45 • Filed to: None

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My wife and I are big time DIYers. However, the scope of this project is beyond us so we’re hiring out. I can’t believe it because we were almost certainly moving to a new house six months ago. Then we saw all of the houses in the area where we want to be and they all had at least one MAJOR hangup. Meanwhile we we re not “living” in our current house because were getting it ready to sell so that we can move to a house that does not exist...

This is a garage

I know that there are at least a few of you in “the biz”, could ya help a fella out? I have worked with general contractors in the past as a sub for AV/IT wiring etc. I reached out to one of those guys for advice/a quote from his company but have not heard back.

Should I be talking to an architect first? I know some construction firms have that in house, that a better route?

I put the project on home advisor and have only heard back from a large local company that seems really thirsty...They reached out to me, none of the companies that I have sent “invites” to have responded.

In this project there is an additional bathroom, a bathroom remodel, a kitchen remodel, annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd.

ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND.

For the first time in my 19 years of driving, owning 16 different vehicles, I will have my very own GARAGE!!!!!!!

sdfsdf

I know that I am at the very least a year away from backing the cars into their new home, but I’m looking to enjoy this pregame excitement before the costs and stress of the project move in!

Any do’s don’ts, advice of any kind is appreciated.

hillrat > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 11:50

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When it comes to renovations DO expect it to cost more than the quote and DON’T expect it to be done on time.

Tripper > hillrat 07/29/2020 at 11:52

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I’m ahead of the game then! I was thinking like 25-50% more than quoted by the time we’re done and at least a two months after they say. How am I doing?

Ssfancyfresh > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 11:54

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That’s spot on, from my experience.

Sovande > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 11:54

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What's the scope of the project? If you are building from scratch, I'd enlist the help of an architect first, or a GC with design build capability. 

Tripper > Sovande 07/29/2020 at 11:58

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It’s an addition but yes building where there is currently nothing and attaching it to the existing house. . We’d be expanding the back of the house, adding the garage on the right side and expanding the upstairs over part of the garage.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 11:58

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I don’t know much, but I know this. Make sure they pull permits and have them posted prior to any work being done. I had to get a bit fiesty on the third day of no permit posted when my house was getting fixed after a hail storm. Not the same thing but you want to make sure they are doing things the correct way in case things go wrong in the future.

benjrblant > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:01

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I think it depends on where you live and what your expectations are. If you’re out in the boonies and just want a car hole, you could probably go with a contractor. If you want an expecation of what it will look like before it’s build and if you live in a city/county that requires permitting or zoning, I’d go with an architect. Architect’s fees for small projects can range from 6-10% of the cost, but expect more discussion, control, and expectations throughout the process.

Personally, if funds allowed, I’d always go through an architect.

Tripper > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/29/2020 at 12:02

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Yeah that is good advice. I’m big on “ knocking on my neighbors doors” instead of getting permits, but I won’t be dicking around with a big project like this.

Tripper > benjrblant 07/29/2020 at 12:05

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Thanks sounds like we need an architect. Scope is expanding the entire back of the house, garage on the side and expanding the second floor over the garage.  

TheRealBicycleBuck > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:10

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Check with your permits department to see what the requirements are. Some renovations in some locations don’t require a permit depending on what’s being done, who’s doing it, how much the renovation costs as a percentage of the appraised value of the home, etc.

If you want it done to code and you want someone to manage the renovations, talk to an architect. If you just want it done, then hire a general contractor - but be very careful who you hire. Whatever you do, DON’T PAY THEM UPFRONT! If they can’t afford to float the materials and labor costs for the duration of the project, then there’s a solid risk the G.C. will leave you hanging with the job incomplete. We watched this happen repeatedly in the Baton Rouge area after the 2016 floods. The fly-by-night contractors that popped up would skip out on a job to go get paid for the next job and never came back to finish the work. Don’t hire anyone who isn’t licensed, insured, and bonded.

If you do hire an architect, they can act as a third party to make sure that the work is completed according to the design. They can also stop stupid stuff from happening. T hings like doors being installed backwards, walls not being plumb, incorrect outlets in wet areas, etc.

Full disclosure: my wife is working on her architectural licensing exams and worked for years as a project manager for construction.

Roundbadge > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:22

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If it was a detached garage, you might be able to get away with getting a garage design and handing it off to a contractor to build, but since you’re tying into the existing house (not to mention the additional projects) I’d definitely recommend the architect route.

As others have said, definitely make sure the permits get pulled.

Thomas Donohue > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:27

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If you build that garage, dig very deep and put a small, hidden room under the first bay, where you won’t have a lift. (You will have a scissor lift in the middle and a four post on the right.) Then put a hidden floor door which has a circular staircase leading to the room below.

Then, dig an underground tunnel back to the main house. That way when you go down to the basement in your house for whatever reason, you can sneak out of the secret door in the wine cellar, through the tunnel, into the garage.

Because cars.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:33

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Buy project insurance

Tripper > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 07/29/2020 at 12:37

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TIL this is a thing. Thanks!

ClassicDatsunDebate > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:41

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First FUNDAMENTAL question: Do YOU want to be the General contractor or do you want to hire a GC.  I’ve done major projects both ways.  Being my own GC has come with...unintended consequences.  Having a GC do all the project management comes with an additiona mark-up on other trades and design....but the process is smoother and the outcome is more optimal.  If It was me, I’d go the design/build route if i had a very well vetted general contractor that i could work with.

Tripper > ClassicDatsunDebate 07/29/2020 at 12:42

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Considered being my own GC but I dunno what the fuck I’m doing...so I think that is out for this one.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:47

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you will need an architect. A contractor may have a guy on staff. You should ask to see some previous designs regardless of who you ask to draw it up. I worked for a contractor for a while and I do nice stuff. So me people work for a contractor and just know how to draw house plans and some know how to design a house. There is a huge difference. Try Googling residential architect + town. If your tow n has a local facebook page ask there. People will be more than happy to pass on people who have drawn up a good project for them.  

ClassicDatsunDebate > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:47

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Then i would suggest working through a home-builder type GC that has a relationship with or an in-house architect . That way, the accountability for the deliverable is clear.

Good luck!  exciting times!

shop-teacher > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:49

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Yes, you definitely need an architect.

shop-teacher > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 12:52

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Trust your instincts when picking an architect and a contractor ... but get EVERYTHING in writ ing.

Tripper > shop-teacher 07/29/2020 at 12:56

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That much I know. Somehow I know a bunch of attorneys and builders and attorneys for builders. Here I am asking my pals on the internet because none of them have been much help so far. Well the attorneys have, but just in saying what you have.

shop-teacher > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 13:00

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I wish I could offer something more specific.  It’s so hard to find good contractors.  

Tripper > Thomas Donohue 07/29/2020 at 13:01

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Fuck that’s awesome! It slopes down hard a little ways back from where the garage will be, could exit right through that little hill!

I am actually planning on a two post lift in one bay, drain in the floor, and hot/cold water lines for indoor car wash purposes

Tripper > shop-teacher 07/29/2020 at 13:07

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Honestly that has been the underlying hold up this whole time. I’ve seen the few contractors that I have worked with do really shifty stuff at one time or another, and most of their clients were NOT happy after.

I do know an architect, which I need to deal with first anyway.

Mid Engine > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 13:08

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I have a dormant GC license, I did GC work for a numbe r of years (make sure the GC is truly licensed/bonded/insured) . Ask for their URL to see pics of work done and testimonials, if they don’t have a website pass, they’re not legit in my book.

You need an architect that works closely with the GC from beginning to end. You absolutely require a permit, do nothing until it’s issued. In my area working without a permit in hand can be a $50k fine.

Whatever your back of the napkin figure is, double it. 

Future ND Owner > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 13:09

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I’m an architect. We’re too expensive for most folks doing single family work (new build or additions). You probably want design-build. This is when you hire the GC and they have an architect in- house. You still get to make decisions on aesthetics and finishes, but they help you keep on budget from the start. They are able to only produce the minimum amount of drawings needed, as they are the same company as the contractor (savings to you) .

Future ND Owner > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 13:13

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If you get a completion date in the contract, and a guaranteed maximum price in the contract, this won’t happen. Provided you don’t make changes after signing the contract that is. Most folks make changes after the contract is signed and then complain when the project goes long and costs more. Really make sure you understand the drawings and what you are getting. Make sure all finishes and fixtures are chosen before the contract is signed. Doing more work up front will save you time, money, and headaches once you pull the trigger.

notsomethingstructural > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 13:35

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You’ve gotten some good advice on this. You really need to decide on your workflow here. A conventional design-bid-build process is the slowest but you have the most control and the least conflicts of interest. If you want high confidence in the standard of detailing and performance, this is the way to go. It is also the most expensive, and it is also the slowest.

If you are planning to just sell the place once it’s done, going to a builder with an architect in-house will be “good enough” for that. A lot of weird quirks in lazy builds aren’t identified until after the check is signed for your next purchaser. If you work in the biz, you can spot the flips, but if you are an average joe off the street, not so much.

It’s certainly possible there are good architect-builder teams out there, but ultimately you will never really know if the architect specified a certain trimwork or fixture or window size because the builder had it laying around, or because it was right for your space.

Someone mentioned you could GC the job yourself. If you are asking for help this early in the process, I would not do that. The other option available to you would be to hire a construction manager / owner’s rep, and ultimately they are responsible for delivering the plan the architect envisioned together with you. They’re fairly uncommon for single-family construction around me unless it’s pretty high-end, but usually they take a flat fee of 10-15 % of the total construction cost and recover it through subbing it out on their own.

Under absolutely no circumstance should you attempt to do this job without permits. The tax assessor will come by and be like “hm, what’s this new garage? ” and you’ll have a real fucking mess. You’ll have to file the permits anyways, pay an architect to develop the project in reverse, pay for any corrections for work that wasn’t code-worthy, plus if the town mandates things like municipal framing or energy compliance inspections they could make you remove all the sheetrock or more. Do not, DO NOT do this without permits.

If it was me, and I was extending the whole back of my house (which is big bucks!!!) I would hire an architect directly. I would be uncomfortable with the conflict of interest risks between a contractor and their architect on a project like that. An architect that’s working for me has no incentive to try to save me a buck at the expense of his license. I would probably look into a construction manager or owner’s rep rather than go the GC route, but I could be swayed either way on that part of the decision-making process.

GLHF!

Tripper > Future ND Owner 07/29/2020 at 13:54

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Thanks, for both comments!

Tripper > notsomethingstructural 07/29/2020 at 13:56

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Thanks! Were staying a while so if it takes long/costs more than value it adds, that’s ok. Def will not be going the self GC route.

jeepoftheseus > hillrat 07/29/2020 at 15:02

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My parents remodeled a vacation home a couple of years back . Dad had a new “f word” that was not to be uttered... “ finished”.  

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Thomas Donohue 07/29/2020 at 15:16

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If I won the lottery I always wanted this just so I can “na na na na batcave”

shop-teacher > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 17:45

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Start there, and see if they have anybody they recommend . My dad was a residential contractor, and he got lots of his work from various architects who liked working with him.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > notsomethingstructural 07/29/2020 at 23:16

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i have a cheap co worker who put in a cheap prefab garage (given his past, no permits pulled) . He gawked at the electricians price to do it to code. , then started trying to do it himself asking a electical/circuits engineer coworker how to do it, ignoring his advice. He didn’t want to spend a bunch as they plan on moving in a few years. How do you not expect this not to be flagged on a home inspection when you sell? My other coworker “he is so fucked when he sells”

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Tripper 07/29/2020 at 23:17

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My only 2cents is you can never have enough outlets. or hookups for c eiling fans, 220s for lifts, compressors, plasma cutters etc crazy toys. 

notsomethingstructural > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 07/30/2020 at 20:54

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Yeah he’s probably flirting with cash buyer only territory unless he fixes it, and around here bringing the electrical to code with a building permit like that would be easily $10k if not more. Municipalities and title companies don’t like it when you just drop random permanent improvements on the premises. Insurance companies don’t like work that’s not to code and banks don’t like when the insurers are unhappy. He’s probably fucked right now if anything happens in that garage, including a general liability claim from someone else. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > notsomethingstructural 07/30/2020 at 22:17

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I would guarantee there are hacked “improvements”. This guy is an antivaxxer becuase acc ording to him, nothing is tested for safety. T hen when it comes to testing stuff internally, “it should be good enough ”. You should be the one pushing for the most testing . This is why  he think that, because he thinks everyone else is as lazy and halfassed as him .

notsomethingstructural > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 07/30/2020 at 22:24

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I never halfass anything,  strictly whole ass or quarter ass