Is 900ft^2 A Deal Breaker?

"i86hotdogs" (i86hotdogs)
07/22/2020 at 11:40 • Filed to: None

Came across this plot of almost 6 acres in a great location. Literal midpoint between where the missus and I work.

Nearly 6 acres of land, pond in the back, and a 30x30 garage with full electrical and loft. 3 beds is more than enough for the two of us and Toby. Only downside I see is the small size: 900sq ft.

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DISCUSSION (85)

PatBateman > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:43

Step 1: Buy the plot of land.

Step 2: Live there for a few years, save some money.

Step 3: Take out a new construction loan, build a larger home

Step 3a: Subdivide the land.

Step 4: Wait a couple of years.

Step 5: Sell that mug for a nice profit!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:44

Are you thinking about buying it? I think you should consider buying it!

facw > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:45

I think you’d have to see those dimensions on the bedrooms. As someone who lives in an 82 0sqft 1 bedroom, yes I think it sounds really small. The kitchen dining living space seems passable enough, at least with it all opened up like that, but that further makes it seem like the other rooms must be very small, though the bedroom with the mirrored closets doesn’t look horrible.

CaptDale - is secretly British > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:46

Is it just you and the missus? Cause 900 sqft is a good amount for 2 people and may be a kid too. Plus all that place you can easily add on or remodel.

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:47

900ft² is small for two yes, not a deal breaker, especially if it’ll just be the two of you . If you plan to grow your clan, you’ll either need to build another home on the property (is it an R2 lot, is that even a code requirement?) or add on to the existing home .

As someone with land, just make sure you understand the maintenance time required for this size.

By the way, nice garage!

Good luck!

i86hotdogs > Snuze: Needs another Swede
07/22/2020 at 11:48

Oh yeah, we’re in the market. She wants to be closer to her job, I want acreage and a garage bigger than the house. This checks all boxes. The floor space is smaller than our house now (900 vs 1200), and the taxes are high (for the area) at $5,500 annually. Those are the only two cons of this we see. We’re touring it Thursday.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:49

I think it would be fine! Most homes in a lot of parts of Europe are moreso that size and they get along with no issue. You could always build a small piece on down the road as well.

Looks like a nice place!

diplodicus forgot his password > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:51

Price seems high to me. But I’ve said that about every house I’ve looked at. So I might just be a cheap bastard.

i86hotdogs > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120
07/22/2020 at 11:51

For the foreseeable future , we don’t plan on growing the family (except more dogs). We’re currently in a 1200ft^2 two bedroom 2 bath place, which is why we are concerned about the size of the house with it being 3 bed/1bath.

Ash78, voting early and often > PatBateman
07/22/2020 at 11:52

Coming here to make the subdivide comment. Absolutely. And it helps with zoning boards if you’re local and actually reside there.

Also, time to buy a big-ass tractor or hire a pricey mowing service.

i86hotdogs > CaptDale - is secretly British
07/22/2020 at 11:52

Definitely room to expand in the future. Right now it’s us 2 and the dog. She always says if we were to grow our family, it’d be more dogs.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PatBateman
07/22/2020 at 11:53

Great idea.

i86hotdogs > facw
07/22/2020 at 11:53

Big fan of the living space and kitchen all together like that. But yeah, the bedrooms is what worries us. We’re currently at a 1200ft^2 2 bed/2bath, so the rooms might be tiny.

Brickman > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:53

buy buy buy! With that much land you could build another house eventually and rent that one out!

i86hotdogs > diplodicus forgot his password
07/22/2020 at 11:55

It’s on the upper end of our budget, but it checks all of our boxes minus the house size. If that house was 1300-1500ft^2, I’d probably already have an offer on it.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:55

From experience, that is exactly the perfect balance of land vs upkeep and the home appears to be similarly great for two people with the occasional guest. That seems good enough to make an offer tomorrow if you are able because thatwo nt last.

ranwhenparked > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:56

I wouldn’t say so, not with that garage and land, plus 3 bedrooms. You have plenty of space to add on if you want to later, plus, being a rancher, that should be pretty straightforward to do.

Plenty of families were raised in homes that size not too long ago, being a 3 bed, that was built as a family house when it was new. Even if you have kids, if it gets too crowded inside, tell them to go out and play in the woods for a few hours.

I lived in an 850 sq ft 2 bedroom on a half acre from 2015-2018, at $700 a month in rent, it was perfectly fine for me, and would have worked fine with a second person. Currently, my place is 1500 sq ft on 1/5 acre, and I understand the previous owners raised two daughters here.

PartyPooper2012 > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:56

I would look at it from a point of expanding something. can you add more house to this house? More bathrooms?

You certainly have room to grow. Sure it will cost a bit to grow, but will it be worth it when done?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:57

It will just force you to keep the clutter down. 900 square feet is minimalist without being ultra annoying. Less time cleaning so more time for mowing because you'll be doing a lot of that.

i86hotdogs > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
07/22/2020 at 11:57

I was thinking that too. It’s got land, but not too much land. Plus the pond!!

Awaiting to get pre-approved as we speak

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:58

Add a lot of “outdoor living space” with shade, and it won’t feel as small.

Add insulation (and maybe heat & air) to the shop, throw an old, comfy couch and a TV out there, and make one corner your “man cave”.

What does Mrs. 86 think?

I do not think you’ll regret this choice.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:58

That’s awesome!

My view is really skewed; we live right outside of DC, so we paid a lot more for 0.2 acres and 1/2 the garage, and we pay about the same in taxes . So coming from that perspective, this still seems like a good deal to me. I don’t need, nor want, a crazy big house - just more to heat and cool, more to clean, etc. If you all can make it work for you it would be excellent, and you could always add an addition to it down the line.

I already saw this mentioned but with 6 acres you may have the option to subdivide it later and sell off a parcel or two and recoup some money.

dumpsterfire! > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:59

My ex and I lived in a 100 year old brick house in Denver that was 2bd, 1ba, 900sf. She and I and the 80# retriever. Was perfectly fine when just us, a bit more congested with any short term guests.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:59

One bath - how often do you have friends/family over?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 11:59

Exciting!

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
07/22/2020 at 12:00

Addendum. If you ever feel too cramped, adding on a large master bath to the master suite would be a cheap and easy way to expand your living space. But you want the land to be outdoors anyways.

For Sweden > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:00

Build a 12-unit multi-family building on the lot, and you’re cooking a stew

i86hotdogs > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/22/2020 at 12:00

She loves the house as well. I agree adding living space outdoors would help with claustrophobia. That garage will be all mine essentially. Add a lift down there, and junk furniture up top, I may just live there and let her keep the house.

i86hotdogs > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/22/2020 at 12:02

Not often, all my family is in another time zone, and they have yet to visit me in Ohio.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:03

See my other comment.

Adding on a master bath to the side and turning the old bath into a walk in closet would be a viable solution if you ever felt it was too small. I think everything about it is just about right for two people. Cozy, cute, and modern.

Barn loft would make a great man cave. Go for it already!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > diplodicus forgot his password
07/22/2020 at 12:04

High for 6 acres & and pond (+ house and shop)?

Future next gen S2000 owner > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:04

Mr brother lives in 900 sq ft with his wife and three kids. That’s a bit snug. Two people would be fine I think. My grandparents had that size house and never seemed small with only them in it.

All the storage space you need in the garage.

Michael > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:06

Thought the 900 referred to the garage first, so basically... the garage is the size of the house.

RacinBob > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:06

I assume the attraction is the large lot and garage/shop. The house is a bit small.

Assuming the neighborhood supports the value, I would do it with plans for an addition to get the bedroom/space I want.

nermal > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:07

Buy property first, buildings second. You can always change or add on to the buildings.

That’s a lot of grass though - Make sure you budget for a good mower or even a small tractor.

Michael > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:07

1 bath is the kicker. If you eat a bad dinner, one of you is going outside.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:08

Awesome. Dude, it’s meant to be... Good luck!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:08

I wouldn’t do this in Wisconsin the cabin fever is real even in our 1800 sq /ft house, not counting the bascement.

But in a warm area where you can hang out outside tear round. Heck yes I’d love this. Especially with that big old shed. You could even put a second hangout area with a couch and bar in the shed.

smobgirl > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:08

I’d say the massive garage space (and room for more) will do wonders. My house is small and wasn’t built with closets, but my garage is also tiny. Once I can actually get regular work I plan on making the garage much bigger and I think it’ll cut back on the stress a bit.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Michael
07/22/2020 at 12:09

Garage has loft!

i86hotdogs > Michael
07/22/2020 at 12:09

It’s every man/woman/dog for themselves then

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal
07/22/2020 at 12:10

I’ve got 10 and only mow 2-3. A nearby rancher cuts and takes the hay twice a year. Nice arrangement for us both.

Gone > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:10

Depending on the layout you might be able to demo a wall and make two bedrooms into one, so at least the master could be large. Can’t quite figure out the bedroom orientations based on the photos though. A lot of the mid-century moderns we looked at were renovated in this way.

Property seems nice w/good size garage . Decent size, lots of mowing though. Not bad!

VincentMalamute-Kim > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:11

Do this: This guy converted half of his shop into his house. He’s using the actual house as a storage shed. This would be ideal for me except the location is a bit of pain to get into town and turns out 1.3 acres with three buildings doesn’t leave much room for dogs.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5469-Glade-Rd-Loveland-CO-80538/13847819_zpid/

CaptDale - is secretly British > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:11

HA HA that is me and my partner too. Makes my mother a bit sad, but I am all for DINK.

Tapas > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:12

Build an extension and connect it to the garage.

Plus maybe 10 years down the road, you could even sell a parcel of the road facing land to someone else to build a home.

BigBlock440 > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:14

I had concerns about one bath when I moved into a small 3 bed/1 bath too, but it was fine with a wife and baby in diapers . It was decidedly less fine a few years later with 2 potty-training toddlers in the house. You could always make a house bigger, it’s difficult to make a yard/lot bigger.

Tripper > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:15

Plenty of room to build!

VincentMalamute-Kim > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:19

1. Make sure you’re getting a good deal. I would think one would not be able to resell that property easily or for a decent price just because of the small size of the house. Unless that size is typical for the area.

2. My last property in Milwaukee was five acres. For me it was too much trying to maintain it myself. I’m currently on 1.5 acres in Colorado and that’s perfect for 2400 sf shop, 2000 sf house, dogs. It’s enough room to have some space from neighbors and to add a mother-in-law cottage.

3. 900 sf would be fine for me. I’d think fine for two like-minded people as well. Tiny bedrooms are fine for me - I don’t spend a lot of time in there. I’m not interested in house, more interested in shop which sounds like you. Those factors are more important for resell.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:19

Just a consideration, so you two are going in eyes completely open: pay special attention to the high voltage power lines running close overhead. Walk out to the pond, listen closely, and see if you can hear them, and it might be good to go visit early in the morning on a very humid or foggy day to see how much noise they make. Our old home was near some (not as close as this house) and there was an obvious buzz (and sometimes a crackle) whenever the air was thick with moisture.

Not a dealbreaker, but something to be aware of.

Kinja'd!!!

fintail > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:21

Two people, no kids, seems ideal. Low upkeep house, lots of breathing room. Or, happiness is being single, it would live like a mansion.

I like the thought that it isn’t cheap, in my zipcode that much land would be a healthy 8 figures.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:22

259k wouldn't even buy you a run down 500sqft apartment here

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim
07/22/2020 at 12:26

I've always found 5 acres to be the perfect middle ground if you plan on having some land. Let half of it be wooded and you only have to do underbrush clearing for half your land and the other half can be mowed.

OPPOsaurus WRX > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:26

check the power lines. I’ve heard there could be health issues living next to them. I don;t know if its just tin hat shit or real, but its at least worth looking into

ranwhenparked > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:26

If it’s got a basement or crawl space, adding another bath isn’t that tho ugh, you could maybe squeeze a sink and toilet into a closet.

I looked at turning my downstairs 1/2 bath into a 3/4, but am on a slab and would have to trench, which kind of sucks.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
07/22/2020 at 12:33

i86's property is probably fine. The five acres I had was completely overgrown with hawthorne and buckthorn and a gazillion other invasive species that I tri ed to take care of myself without using chemicals-it was too much .

All of this is so individual - how much land you want, house you want, etc.

One other point about too much land was that everyone was on five acres, heavily wooded, and the neighbors lack of neighborliness was a downside for me.

jeepoftheseus > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:38

I have no idea about land values there but if it’s in budget then go for it. You can always add space later. The wife and I have been living in about that amount of space in our house and it’s not bad. We’ve got triple the space but it’s a slow restoration on a historic home so we’re taking our time. I won’t put new HVAC in the upstairs until we grow into that space.

I am also on ten acres but with no pond and very little woods so I cut with a mower and a tractor. But looking at that listing I’d say you go to the actual tractor store, not HD/Lowe’s and buy a good zero turn mower and make do. Pick up an old tractor and a finishing mower/bush hog down the line and have a useful restoration project to break that shop in!

Also, see if the pond is actually any good or just a glorified swap that’s only good for bugs and frogs.

As others have said: check the power lines, build out if you need to, take advantage of outdoor space and make your offer! That’s some exciting stuff.

SiennaMan > Michael
07/22/2020 at 12:50

900 sq ft seems like a big enough garage..

SiennaMan > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 12:51

In all seriousness, I’d put at least a toilet in the barn/garage then. You could start with one of those waterless composting toilets to get you started and then deside how you want to proceed long term..

SiennaMan > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/22/2020 at 12:59

For a 900 sq ft house in that part of Ohio, probably feels on the high side. That said, home prices here seem to have gone up around 20% since the start of the pandemic, so it’s probably about right. You can buy a lot of land for no t much money in Ohio as long as you’re not too close to any of the cities..

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 13:08

I’m kinda familiar with that part of Ohio, and it seems like the price does seem a bit high given the area, however it’s very very nicely redone. If it checks all the other boxes and you can get a deal that you feel is great, why not consider adding a second story addition (or a first floor, if that’s your thing) in a few year’s time? Would probably run you $40-50k or so, but you’d get that back in value.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 13:12

I got thinking, my wife and I’s first apartment together was about 900 sq ft, but only 1 bedroom. It was cozy but we stayed there like 9 years. So it’s certainly do able. As someone else suggested, maybe knock down a wall and make a larger master bedroom (depending on how it’s laid out, of course).

Also, you’ve sent me down a rabbit hole looking for more property that’s within a reasonable distance to me (~30 minute drive). Thanks!

The Snowman > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 13:21

That is so much land. Here in SLC that land would be a couple million alone. Also do you have to irrigate that or does the climate keep grass green most of the year there?

Mid Engine > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 13:21

We bought 7.2 acres with a 570sq ft house that was built in 1957 , been li ving here for 18 months now. It’s doable, but it’s just the wife and I. Long term? Nope, we’re building a 2400sq ft house and 1500 sq ft shop this year.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 13:32

I’m surprised the property doesn’t include the area under the power lines. Out here that would be part of the property that you pay taxes on with a perpetual easement for those towers/lines.

Aside from that, I’m envious of that option. We live on a tiny lot with an admittedly bigger house 1.5x as far and twice as long a drive (time) from the major city in the region and our house is nearly 3x that expensive.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > VincentMalamute-Kim
07/22/2020 at 13:36

It is always on a case by case basis. This particular property doesn t seem super high upkeep for the amount of land.

RacinBob > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 13:46

I don’t want to be Debbie Downer but I would suggest you ask yourself how secure your employment is. The question is do you want to be in the process of buying and selling a house in what could be the teeth of a major downturn?

I think reasonable people can look at the news and be concerned that governments, retail, entertainment, hospitality, energy, auto industry etc are all going to be doing major pulling in their expenditures. I am told that 47% of employment is hospitality, travel and entertainment. What percentage will survive a year off? And then there are bankruptcy and bad loan exposure in the financial sector. Anybody want to be carrying debt on a office building, shopping mall or cruise ship? How about State of Illinois bonds? It might not be so rosy in 3rd quarter reports .

Remember the gov gave huge loans to business that did not have to be repaid if they did not lay off staff. That loan loan period is ending and there will be layoffs coming. https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/business/american-airlines-delta-employee-buyouts/index.html All the stimulus has been is a delaying factor. I talk to my neighbor who is a Lawyer and he says a lot of small businesses are really hurting.

5 years from now, I expect things will be back to normal. But I wouldn’t rule out bad stuff in the next 18 months.

So the question is d o you really want to take on additional obligations now? No need to reply but it is something to consider.

vondon302 > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 13:46

Thats nice. Lots of room to add on and a huge deck if wanted.

That garage is perfect tho. Good luck!

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > BigBlock440
07/22/2020 at 13:53

This is going to sound like a personal question because it is, feel free to disregard since we're not close friends.

Why did /does your wife wear diapers?

Longtime Lurker > i86hotdogs
07/22/2020 at 14:43

We're a family of four living in a 800sf house with basement on a 1/16 acre lot. 900 should be plenty for two adults and two small kids

ranwhenparked > Gone
07/22/2020 at 15:06

Going down to a 2 bedroom would make it sales poison if they ever wanted to move. 3 bedrooms, even 3 small bedrooms, is much more marketable. One of those dumb realtor rules, sa me with the whole replace the bathtub with a nice glass steam shower idea. Even though hardly anyone uses the damn things as an actual tub, you have to have at least one of them in the house to sell the place.

BigBlock440 > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120
07/22/2020 at 16:23

Solidarity with the kid.

But in case you were serious, it could have said “a small house with a single bathroom was fine when it was just two adults using it and one child in diapers, but two adults and two potty training toddlers who now needed to use the bathroom was no longer fine.”

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > BigBlock440
07/22/2020 at 16:25

That’s a great mom right there. I take it you were too cool to take part?

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > PatBateman
07/22/2020 at 16:58

I rarely see that the cost of building an addition to an existing home is less than the value of the larger home when finished. I’ve done several appraisals of homes where the owner is adding a substantial addition, and the value of the completed home is less than the cost to complete the addition. Also, splitting off a smaller parcel may or may not be possible, depending on zoning regs on frontage and overall site size and set backs. So many people do stupid things to their most valuable asset with no professional guidance, it astounds me.

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
07/22/2020 at 16:59

Cheap and easy. HA HA HA HA HA. That’s a good one.

BigBlock440 > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120
07/22/2020 at 16:59

I didn’t like the way it made my pants look. I was worried I might get mean comments at work.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus
07/22/2020 at 17:02

*comparatively and provided the house wasn't built by a moron. The likelyhood of this being the case is quite high.

PatBateman > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus
07/22/2020 at 17:09

No no, I didn’t mean an addition to the home. I meant build a new home further back in the lot and bulldoze the other structures (in addition to improving the land). It would be a project to say the least, but if they hire their own subs and treat it like they’re the general contractor/homebuilder (after doing a few years of research), they could come out of it with more money in their po cket than they put in.

They could probably subdivide the lot; it looks rural enough.

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > PatBateman
07/22/2020 at 17:48

That’s even worse. You’re basically buying a home and the lot it sits on, burning the house down, and building another house. The only way this works out is if the home is such an under-improvement that the value of the land itself is greater than the dwelling and land together. This being a suburb of Cleveland, I highly doubt that’s the case. I’ve seen people do this before, where they buy a house on a few acres, then build another home further back, then demolish the existing home. It is rarely, if ever, a good idea in any Ohio market. It is far cheaper, easier and a better use of capitol to buy a vacant lot and build what you want/need. Ohio is not lacking in vacant land for sale at the moment. I’ve been in real estate valuation for 20+ years, so I know a thing or two about a thing or two.

PatBateman > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus
07/22/2020 at 18:27

Ah. I’m used to real estate development in Texas (my wife and her family has been in RE in sales and title for 25 years, wife owns a title company, I’m licensed for mortgages ). That would be an automatic money-making venture here, and my newest client is a multi-millionaire from doing it over and over for the past 30 years. Plenty of suburbs and x-burbs anywhere in the Lone Star State are built by doing that.

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > BigBlock440
07/22/2020 at 18:58

Yeah, co-workers can be so judgemental.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > i86hotdogs
07/23/2020 at 12:56

One other question, do you really want all that grass to mow; 2-3 acres?

i86hotdogs > John Norris (AngryDrifter)
07/23/2020 at 13:22

Short answer: yes.

It’s laborious, but my next investment after closing on a home is a super nice zero-turn or tractor. I’d voluntarily mow my in-laws 4 acres whenever I visited because I enjoy it so much

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > i86hotdogs
07/23/2020 at 16:28

This is a trap. Dont do it. the garage is bigger than the house.

U nless its all the space you need (thats really small though, basement?)

i86hotdogs > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper
07/24/2020 at 08:18

No basement, crawlspace. I like the garage being bigger than my house. It could be my own sanctuary. Workshop and lift underneath, minibar, tv(s) and couches in the loft!