Hello and On Selling A Car

"NYankee1927" (nyankee1927)
06/29/2020 at 11:13 • Filed to: None

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Hello and about me

Hey Oppo, I’ve been lurking around Jalopnik since ~2008 and really haven’t left. I finally decided to give writing a bit of a go. With everything going on, it looks like I won’t be back in cars for some time. So this should be a good outlet for some of my car energy. Prepare for rambling, tangents and buried somewhere, hopefully good content.

In the coming posts, expect everything from Lemons racing to Porsche Cup Car driving stories. I have many and hopefully will be adding more this year.

Anyway, onto my current car adventure. In a weird turn of events, we sold our house before the market flooded with inventory and moved back in with the parents until early next year. 4 adults and a 1 year old in a 1900 sq ft house is no joke. My FIL and I have a bit of a car problem. Even though the house is small, there are two garages on the property. A two car and a 4 car. As odd as it sounds, we are out of garage space. This means 1 car has to go. I was given the option of keeping my stick E46 M3, but then his track GT3RS would be sold or the M3 goes and the tracking continues. Despite my unhealthy love for the M3, it is obvious taking a 1 year old in and out is not practical and a 4 door should be in the works. Stay tuned for what comes next! We will all be disappointed.

Selling the M3

So I did what every normal person does. Listed the car on Facebook marketplace and Craigslist. I prepared myself for some pain, but not this. It turns out selling a somewhat collectable car significantly narrows down your audience into a very small subset. It also attracts all the tire kickers and people wanting to drive a fun car. I’ve priced it at where I think is fair. It has many miles but has been impeccably maintained, with full records going all the way back to the first owner. You would be hard pressed to find one at this level of maintenance for this cost. The major shortcomings are around the cosmetics. It needs the front and rear bumpers painted as well as a dent pulled in the quarter. I always had the intention of getting that work done when I was done DD’ing it. Then I had a kid and here we are. Anyway I’ve found comps on BAT and craigslist and think what I’m asking is not unreasonable. Basically you are getting a beautiful DD that there is no pressure to garage and preserve. You can enjoy this car to its fullest.

FB Marketplace

As of now I’ve had 21 responses on FB marketplace. None have turned into reasonable offers. A stunning 10/21 or ~50% of conversations go “Is this still available?” “Yes it is.” Then I never hear from them again. How is this a thing? What is wrong with people? Why bother even reaching out?

Craigslist

To my surprise, Craigslist has actually been pretty ok. It has resulted in more in-depth conversations and test drives then any other method. I also almost had it sold, until the bank financing fell through on the poor guy. There have been only a handful of weirdo’s. Some guy came all the way out to test drive it, then stated it has way too much power and he is looking for a show car. I’m wondering if he even bothered looking at the pics, because this could be one of the worst contenders for show car out there.

The side of the road

You heard that right folks, the side of the road has resulted in the most calls and realistic offers. This is probably because people can take their time and look it over without having me talk their ear off. By now, I think the entire town has seen it and results from this method have really tapered off.

The offers

The offers have a huge range. Obviously none have panned out. Only one has been realistic. Starting with the most laughable. I’ve gotten many around KBB pricing on the car. Everyone, if you find a E46 M3 for KBB pricing, call me and I will buy two.

Overall people seem to be caught up on the cosmetics. They love how well it has been maintained, but also want it to be cosmetically perfect. I’ve found those cars for sale. They go for much more than what I have it priced at. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too for the price of wonderbread. If I were to discount it enough to take care of all of the cosmetics, then I’ve just paid for you to get to enjoy a perfect car. So that is not happening. I’ve also got a few “I’ve saved up everything and this is all of my money, will you sell it to me?” I’m not here to judge, but these cars are not for the people who are short on money just buying it. On average I put ~$2K a year into the car in preventative maintenance and tires.

Whats Next

Honestly, I’m not sure what is next. I have until mid-July to clear space in the garage, so I’m not desperate yet. By then, if a reasonable offer doesn’t materialize I may end up having to settle for a lot less. Or there is talks of starting a Lucky Dog/Champ Car team. I may cut a deal with the team mates on entry fees and convert the car into a racecar. Honestly, I’d rather be the one to plant it into a wall then have it go to someone is taking advantage of my timeline running out.

Edit: CL link for those interested

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DISCUSSION (38)

E90M3 > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:17

How many miles and how much are you asking? I did read the article, I just didn’t see a mention of either.

boredalways > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:20

Apologies in advance since I’m going through some insomnia right now, but have you considered Doug DeMuro’s Cars & Bids, as an online selling option?

Sovande > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:25

Any luck on enthusiast forums? I find people on forums tend to have a better understanding of value than those who may not be as familiar with a particular brand or model.

Good luck with the sale!

NYankee1927 > Sovande
06/29/2020 at 12:27

Silence on the enthusiast forums so far unfortunately .

NYankee1927 > E90M3
06/29/2020 at 12:27

I purposely didn’t include them in case it violated rules. But it has ~150K miles and I’m asking $17.5K

NYankee1927 > boredalways
06/29/2020 at 12:29

I just saw he launched a site! I am considering it, but would need to get around to getting professional photos taken of it. My level of photography hurts more than helps.

boredalways > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:31

Wouldn't hurt to reach out to him. He may know of someone in your area that could help you out.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:34

Looking forward to more posts!

GLWS - I assume getting the front clip repainted is cost-prohibitive? My E90 M3 has just over 125k miles and plenty of rock chips from track days and backroadtrips and too many daily driven miles on a highway frequented by sand and gravel trucks... I assume my car is worth about what you’re asking, which is why I may never part with her. =)

Worth waaay more to me in enjoyment (even driving just a couple times a week now) than what someone would give me.

Photos of the GT3 RS, please!

Sovande > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:35

My experience (certainly not with any car as nice as yours appears to be) is that usually means the price is too high. Hopefully someone takes an interest soon.

E90M3 > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:39

Posting either of those shouldn’t violate any rules, I think you can even put a link to the ad. As long as you don’t over post about it, you should be good. I made a post about my 128i when I sold it.

I’m not as well versed with E46 prices as I am with E9X, but that seems like you’re asking for top dollar given the miles and condition of the bumper. A very similar car went for 15.8k on BAT this year . I see that car had an accident so I don’t know if that affected the price or not. Maybe you’re right on the money, cars like this can be hard to price.

dogisbadob > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:39

Have you tried cars.com? It’s free

You could also put up a no-reserve auction on ebay

Email the ad to graverobber to put it upon NPOCP to make sure your asking price really is fair

functionoverfashion > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:41

I don’t think it’s against the rules, so long as the whole post isn’t a copy/paste of your CL ad. A narrative about your experience selling it, with pertinent details, is perfectly fine. It’s obvious the purpose of the post isn’t to generate interest in the car.

Anyway, best of luck and I look forward to reading more of your stuff.

NYankee1927 > E90M3
06/29/2020 at 12:44

That’s the comp I found too. It has an accident and the rod bearings and subframe have not been done like mine have. So I figured maybe worth more? Maybe not? In any case, I see those prices as almost the same. If someone was right there and made a good argument for it, I’d meet them at their price.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:54

Welcome! It’s been nice seeing so many new faces around here. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Most people find a fun niche here pretty quickly.

I don't have much advice for the Beamer but you'll sell it. Just a matter of how close you are going to get to your asking price. I think maybe 17k might be a more reasonable starting price but I also inhabit the very cheapest corner of the car market so idk.

E90M3 > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 12:57

Didn’t realize you’d addressed both those items, so I’d say you’re pretty close to the right number. I think you’re really just being let down by the bumper, which I can tell has been pretty beat. Probably a first impression /perception thing where they see that and think the price is too high.

I’m not in the market for the third car now, and if I was I’d want an E34 M5 first. So take all my suggestions with a grain of salt. My only experience of buying an M car was when I got my E90 back in 2014 and it was only 3 years old and had only done 15.8k miles.

NYankee1927 > E90M3
06/29/2020 at 13:03

I do realize the cosmetics are letting me down. It is just really hard to justify putting money into it when I know I’ll never come out on top. But if someone were to buy it and fix it, they’ll easily see their money back as these cars continue to appreciate.

NYankee1927 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
06/29/2020 at 13:06

You’ve got it right on the enjoyment factor. Cosmetics don’t detract from enjoyment, in fact they let you enjoy the car.

I’ll see what photos I can dig up. Its not my car and my FIL is a pretty private guy. He is more than generous letting me take it to the track, wouldn’t want to ruin that opportunity .

Snuze: Needs another Swede > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 13:06

A stunning 10/21 or ~50% of conversations go “Is this still available?” “Yes it is.” Then I never hear from them again. How is this a thing?

I’ve been going through a lot of this as I try to sell my old Volvo 850. My theory is that, at least for a rare car like your BMW, some of it is a weird complex where they hope you say no so they can later be like “Man, I almost bought a BMW M3, but some guy bought it just before I got there” or something along those lines. More likely, they are using you to gauge market pricing, so they can say to some other seller “I like the car but your price is too high, I could go b uy this other guy’s M3 for less!” That or a I think some people have nothing better to do, or they just shoot out “Is this available” to 20 cars they might possibly be interested in and just see who responds, and then go from there . Or maybe they are hoping that you’ll come back with “Yes, desperate to sell, please come buy for half price” or some dumb fantasy.

Anyways, welcome aboard, looking forward to some racing stories!

NYankee1927 > dogisbadob
06/29/2020 at 13:08

NPOCP would be hilarious. It would be controversial for sure! It would be divisive between the “I love cars to enjoy them” and the “I love cars to show them” crowds

NYankee1927 > Snuze: Needs another Swede
06/29/2020 at 13:10

My car is certainly at the end of someone else’s negotiation. It is one of the cheapest 6 speeds available in the area, and for good reason. I think you might be onto something there.

VincentMalamute-Kim > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 13:14

Is it still available?

Will you take $5000 and my collection of Barbie dolls?

Seriously though, I saw someone mention it, anything will sell if you price it correctly. And the converse that if it’s not selling, the price is too high .

OTOH, I know nothing about pricing E46s. In your photo, it looks too nice to convert to Champ Car. Are E46's a bit too big to be good track cars? I’ve got an Audi B5S4 not modified enough that I find too heavy to be a good track. car.

NYankee1927 > VincentMalamute-Kim
06/29/2020 at 13:19

I think the idea of having stuff move with pricing is generally correct for most cars, but enthusiast cars will inevitably be tougher to sell. The buyer pool is just so much smaller. I got called crazy by someone on the phone because the guy was like “you’re asking that much for a 16 year old BMW? Those are found in junkyards.”

I don’t think they are too big to convert to track cars. They are still pretty small. It can be stripped out to 2600 lbs with 330 HP, it should motor right along. I need to read a little more on the rules.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 13:27

To me it’s also the most realistic thing.

I think t he randomly spamming multiple cars thing also happens. I did had a guy do the “is this still available?” then ghost, then randomly a few days later I get a message from him “If it’s still there, I’m coming out to your area to look at a couple cars, and I’m going to buy one of them. ” The morning he was supposed to come out he messaged me “I ended up buying the first car I looked at, a 4Runner, because I liked it so much and decided I wanted the extra space of an SUV. Sorry.”

People are weird. But I might try Craigslist based on you saying you’ve actually had better experience there.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 13:36

Yeah, please don’t screw that up! Awesome that he lets you use it. What color?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 13:43

I think you’re right, there is a buyer out there willing to put the money in to repair the cosmetic issues for how sound the car is, and how nice the interior is, but you may just have to wait too long to find them.

NYankee1927 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
06/29/2020 at 14:00

Found a pic from driving it last year up at Thunderhill . Its ultraviolet. So much fun!

Kinja'd!!!

VincentMalamute-Kim > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 14:01

You may be right on enthusiast pricing. Yeah, that guy is an idiot.

When I think of track cars, I think E30s and E36s. Wow - I had no idea E46s could go down to 2600lbs!! My Audi probably has around 330hp after mods but the lightest B5S4 is 3100lbs!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 14:04

Oh hell yes! What an epic choice!

Tripper > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 14:18

Hey man. Long time E46M3 owner, constant shopper of E46,E39, and E9/10 Bimmers. TIGHT car! Black on cinnamon looks great. Nice to meet ya and looking forward to more of your content. Here’s my 2 pennies.

If you definitely want to sell it BaT is the spot. BaT calls the shots in that, they may tell you they’ll only list it as “no reserve”. If there is a reserve, they set it. However, the buyers that you are looking for are there. I have bought one and almost two others on BaT. I have not yet sold on there...yet but know others who have and probably will if the time comes.

15-20k is a lot of money to most people, myself included. So you either have to have that kind of cash or be willing to go and get that kind of cash via some kind of loan that won’t be nearly as good as the loan you would get on a brand new or even slightly used car. A buyer has to REEEEEAAAALY wan’t your particular car to do that.

Otherwise you may get your ask, but I think you’ll experience more of what you have been before that happens. Also and obviously, if you’re willing to take less you’ll make a deal quickly. I can tell you that if you lived down the street from me, I’d be trying real hard to get it in my driveway for 15...

That was just my first penny. My second penny is:

If it won’t KILL you...Keep it! I have to stash mine at my parents house also because of space . I made a great deal on a 2019 VW Alltrack for dad duty. Mine’s just 2. Full disclosure...the Alltrack is in the garage at my parents house:0

Tripper > Snuze: Needs another Swede
06/29/2020 at 14:29

“My theory is that, at least for a rare car like your BMW, some of it is a weird complex where they hope you say no so they can later be like “Man, I almost bought a BMW M3, but some guy bought it just before I got there” or something along those lines.”

Hey, thank you for materializing a thought I have had a million times before but could not put into words. Honestly I think this goes even further than just rare cars.

NYankee1927 > Tripper
06/29/2020 at 14:33

Great to meet fellow E46 enthusiasts. Believe me, I am still trying to find a way to keep it while still prioritizing other car projects. I’ve even offered permanent no cost loaner status to friends with more property. Oddly enough their wif e also don’t want another car sitting around. Go figure. I joke I am going to sell this car now, then go find it and buy it back in 10 years for double because I am dumb.

I think this car would be an absolute bloodbath on BAT. Others have mentioned Doug’s Bid’s and Cars. There would probably be more success there. I can see the BAT comments now. “What’s the paint thickness on the front bumper?” “Have you had the rod bearings replaced with the coated ones? Why not, haven’t you heard the coated ones are better?”

On the pricing I am pretty open to negotiation. If you are able to articulate cleanly why you are only at 15, I’d probably work with you. There are a few ways I can see getting there, but for sure won’t be throwing in the spare parts. So far everyone has either came back with “the cosmetics arn’t perfect” or “Well the rod bearings will need to be done again at 220K miles” basically normal upkeep on these cars.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Tripper
06/29/2020 at 14:48

You’re welcome.

I also wonder if some of it is from kids or people otherwise financially dependent on someone else. They want to see if it’s available so they can go back to mom and dad to try to convince them to take them to look at the car. And of course mom/dad are like “hell no!”

Tangentially related, I coach a junior rifle team and tend to get a shocking number of e-mails from kids themselves. Some are hilariously bad, like “HeY mAn, I wAnT tO cOmE sHoOt SoMe M-16s aNd AK-47s aT tEh BaD gUyZ!!! LOLZ” but I do get the occasional kid who paid attention in English class. Regardless, the response is always “Okay, have your parent contact me so we can setup a meeting” and I think I’ve only ever received one reply from a parent.

Tripper > NYankee1927
06/29/2020 at 14:56

So I keep an eye on ALL the E46 auctions because mine is a ragtop so you can go ahead and whack 5k right off the top before you get started. Check this one . I’d much rather have your car for that money, so would anyone who knows .

Also, l ook at the profiles of the bidders that make those comments. MOST of them have never sniffed an M3 fart and they definitely haven’t cast any bids other than ridiculously low ones real early in the auction so that they can tell someone they’re bidding (like Snuze said). Also most serious bidders, keep the chatter to a minimum. The 2002 auctions are even worse, you get the Tii nerds crossing swords about a SNORKEL the least interesting part of the car.

So the way I like to negotiate is my first bid/offer is my “If he says yes were going to the title place right now” price. So for you being down the street and me not having to ship the car pared with the fact that I can probably convince you to let me drive yours while you drive mine....$15k would be my first offer (and I’m talking car only here). From there I let my heart decide but I can tell you that once I have been in the driver’s seat $2,500 isn’t going to stop me from buying your car. I’m just going to try real hard to play like it is.

In my ideal world. You and I settle on 17, you gimme da parts with it. We tell the tag shop that you sold it to me for significantly less and we go about our lives happily.

Tripper > Snuze: Needs another Swede
06/29/2020 at 15:01

Yep and I’m pretty sure I have been guilty of doing that at least once not lying to anyone but myself...

Me to Seller: “Still available”

Seller to me: “yep”

Me to Me: “awesome I’ll get my shit together and go see.... no you clown, you can’t afford this and you shouldn’t try to”

Not surprised on the rifle permission slip. Neat that you’re teaching that to the next gen. My father was always huge on gun safety and I am even worse (better?).

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Tripper
06/29/2020 at 15:09

Yeah, I’m sure I’ve done it at least once. I know specifically of a time I setup an appointment to go look at a Ducati 916 monoposto. Then I thought about it some more and realized I couldn’t afford it, but in that case I did call the guy and cancel. But I’m sure there’s other times I’ve asked and forgotten about it.

And yeah, I really enjoy working on the rifle team and teaching the kids. I shot 22s at Scout camp when I was a kid, but I had no idea anything like this was out there. So I’m excited to get kids involved and teach them safety and good fundamentals.

NYankee1927 > Tripper
06/29/2020 at 16:07

That convertible was insane. I couldn’t believe it went for that much. Like I said, with the right amount of negotiation, who knows how far down I’d go. Especially selling to another enthusiast. People are able to be sold on both ends, but not if you are completely tapped out on finances at $12.5K.

stuckMTB > NYankee1927
06/30/2020 at 11:58

Love that color combination. The cinnamon interior really sets it off. I don’t think I’ll ever quite understand people who want a perfect example of a show car, that just translates to me being terrified to actually drive the thing. When I bought my E46 330 it had already had 190k on the clock and plenty of rock chips and a decent scrape on the front bumper, but miraculously zero rust despite living its entire life in southeast Michigan. It’s been a great daily, and I wouldn’t hesitate to do it again.

NYankee1927 > stuckMTB
06/30/2020 at 12:04

Yep I absolutely agree, taking care of a show car means so much less enjoyment on the roads. It means I don’t want to even take it on a trip to the store in case I scrape going in and out of a parking lot. With the cosmetics on the average to poor side, you can really enjoy every bit of a car. High mileage only adds to that. You arn’t worried about the cost of miles. Another guy said he saw an original owner at the track with one of these at 280K miles. With the E46 if you take care of it, it will take care of you.