Well, I wasn't expecting this...

"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
06/27/2020 at 00:11 • Filed to: Nobody expects this...

DISCUSSION (33)

lone_liberal > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 00:20

I’m not surprised that it originally had a six but I’m shocked that it’s still there.

WilliamsSW > lone_liberal
06/27/2020 at 00:23

https://barnfinds.com/museum-find-1961-chevrolet-impala-convertible/

It spent time in a museum, but was restored at some point.

As an added bonus, it’s a 3 on the tree, no power brakes, and I don’t see a PS pump, either.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 00:26

Is it a SEAT?

lone_liberal > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 00:27

Sounds like an Ace of Base! Kind of weird for a convertible.

ETA: That’s an Impala convertible with a six. That’s totally weird!

WilliamsSW > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
06/27/2020 at 00:32

Que?

ranwhenparked > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 00:35

Its a cromulent engine though, basically the same as the Blue Flame in the original Corvettes. More interesting than another small block, IMO.

WilliamsSW > lone_liberal
06/27/2020 at 00:36

Yep - generally Chevy only offered a full size convertible in the top of the line model at that time.

Fun fact - from 62 onward for a few years, you could buy an Impala SS convertible with the 6.

I’ve driven a 62 Impala with the 6 and a Powerglide. Was thinking of buying it, but it was just too goddamn slow.

WilliamsSW > ranwhenparked
06/27/2020 at 00:40

It’s a solid engine - - which was introduced *before* WWII. The combo is interesting - - it’s an Impala convertible, but a stripper. Base engine, base transmission (3 on the tree), no power brakes and I don’t think PS either.

I’ve driven an Impala with this engine - a ‘62 and PG. Painfully slow - - but for a cruiser, it’s fine.

shop-teacher > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 00:42

Someone wanted to look fancy on as small a budget as possible.

WilliamsSW > shop-teacher
06/27/2020 at 00:48

Yup. I don’t see *any* options on that car ( the mirrors were added later - that’s not where they belong).

Yet now the bidding is over $50k on Ebay...

ranwhenparked > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 00:49

Yeah, someone was really, really stingy. I imagine there were a decent number of pillared sedans ordered that way, but a total stripper convertible is weird.

At least its not as obsolescent as AMC’s 1941 vintage flathead 6 that they stuck with as late as ‘65.

WilliamsSW > ranwhenparked
06/27/2020 at 00:58

I don’t recall specifics, but I know that in the early 60's, Biscaynes were mostly 6's (probably 75+ %), Belairs were split, and 60-80% of Impalas had a V8. Even more so for the convertibles.

The 235 was introduced in 1941 and lasted to 1962, so it’s close.

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 00:58

Cold war motors would definitely turn up the base on that one!

shop-teacher > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 01:08

The world is a crazy place.

WilliamsSW > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
06/27/2020 at 01:15

Hmmm, that's a new rabbit hole I could get lost in...

fintail > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 01:19

You beat me to it - later, even the SS could be had with the I6. At over 50K, apparently some boomers still have money to blow through.

Fun story, my mom bought a 61 Impala convertible , white on red, as an ordinary used car around 1968. I think she said it was $800. I think it ended up as a trade in on a new Beetle in 1970.

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 01:31

Oh, I spent many recent Saturday mornings tuning in for the hour with Scott and the gang . The S traight-8 Showdown is my all time favourite blue collar edited Y ouT ube.

WilliamsSW > fintail
06/27/2020 at 01:32

50k seems strange for a 6/3 car to me. It looks nice, but it’s nothing really special, and driving that car won’t be much fun without any power assist or auto trans (And a lot of boomers whine about any car without A.C., too).

That said, at 50k, you could swap in a 62-64 409, 4 speed, and add on the SS trim pieces and have a really sweet ride. The VIN will give away the secret, but as a driver...

And yeah, starting in 62 you could get a 6 in an Im pala SS, but 61 SS cars required the 348 at least.

WilliamsSW > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
06/27/2020 at 01:50

I hadn't heard of them before but just watched some snippets and it's good stuff thanks!

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 09:53

I’m not sure what was unexpected here. The Spanish Inquisition or the I6.

WilliamsSW > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
06/27/2020 at 10:08

fintail > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 12:32

Pay 50K for the car, then the cost of the engine swap, and I wonder how much one would save in just buying the real thing vs making a “tribute” as they like ti call it. As a driver, I’d swap in a modern FI unit with a TH400 and modern AC, resto-mod, but keep it bone stock otherwise.

Definitely no fun without PS. I remember the 68 Fairlane my dad had in the 90s - 289 but virtually no other options - 3 on the tree, manual steering and brakes. That thing was a pain for a 16 year old driver, but my dad l oved it.

Funny thing about AC, in this region, most cars of that era lacked it. I think the local climate has warmed, and people are less tolerant of discomfort. None of the old cars my dad had when I was a kid had AC, and my grandpa had 65 and 71 Chryslers back in the day , not exactly econoboxes, and neither had AC either. Heck, the fintail was bought new in CA,and lacks it - dealer installed item chosen by few.

WilliamsSW > fintail
06/27/2020 at 13:01

The lack of A.C. is a running joke to me on Barn Finds. You could post the nicest car on the planet there, at a fair price, with a hi-po temperamental engine, and someone will whine that they would buy it if only it had air. Ok Boomer. People weren’t ordering Chevy convertibles with A.C 60 years ago. Spend a few bucks on a Vintage Air setup and stop whining.

The “real thing” doesn’t really exist. Only a handful of SS409 cars were built, and at one time, I swear I read that none were known to still exist in the early 90s. There are plenty around now, but the only way to prove it is to have documents back to 1961 (no VIN stamping on the block then).

I saw one at Mecum last fall, a very nice one, with lots of weasel words in the description, with a range of 80-100k. RNM at 70k.

Neither of our suggestions would make financial sense a t 50k to buy the car, you’d do it because you wanted to enjoy it.

fintail > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 13:33

I swear, that demographic whines just to be contrarian. They grew up without AC, should be used to it, but will probably bitch and moan more than a 15 year old would about lacking that feature.

That 409 thing sounds like the early FI cars, which IIRC are also impossible to firmly document. If you are in 50K and then want to do an engine swap, no way are you running in the black at 70K. Crazy labor of love, but at least you’ll be able to enjoy it (although I bet most who commission such a project will then have it as a garage queen). Not that it matters, if I am laying down 70K for a car, it won’t be on a 61 Impala - I can buy a few nice old cars for that money.

WilliamsSW > fintail
06/27/2020 at 13:45

Well, my avatar should tell you how I feel about the 61 Impala SS. I haven’t done enough research on differences between the I6 and V8 cars in 1961 to do this, and I would never spend $50k on a base car to do it, but I could see doing this on a car.

Chevy didn’t stamp VINs in blocks until some time in 62 or later, and then it was only on big blocks and maybe higher performance SBCs for a few years.

It’s an old joke, but I’m pretty sure there are more 61 SS 409 convertibles now then there was in 1962.

fintail > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 14:17

If one loves a car, they will do anything :) I’d think cars like this might be where one might want to be patient - these might eventually be like many 30s-40s cars on the market, with stagnant to declining values. Then again, the youngest boomers will still be around awhile, and they have most of the money.

I think the same joke applies to Fuelie Vettes and cars with continental kits, etc.

WilliamsSW > fintail
06/27/2020 at 14:47

So you’re saying it’s a good thing that, between small kids and no extra cash, I can’t spend $50k on one of these anyways?

I agree that these will drop in price - they already have a little bit. The younger boomers are more into muscle cars than early 60s boats, which should help me eventually.

fintail > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 15:00

I know you’d buy it because you love it - but I think like many cars, one of these would be poor from the standpoint of retaining value, not to mention as any kind of investment. I see no upside as time goes on, other than what you extract from the fun of driving it. But I guess that’s the point.

The next 25 years will be rough on these boats in terms of value, but good for those who still like them. Plenty of Xers like the later muscle cars, so those might not nosedive.

WilliamsSW > fintail
06/27/2020 at 16:25

I don’t view cars as investments at all. I just want what I want to drive and enjoy it.

I'm 3-5 years away from doing anything on this, and in all likelihood, I'll happily buy a lesser car to drive regularly. I love Oldsmobiles, and they're already quite a bit cheaper than the equivalent Chevy or Pontiac. In my mind, there's a limit to how much I would spend, in part because I don't expect to get the money back.

fintail > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 16:50

That’s what keeps me from diving into a real restoration of the fintail. I just want to drive it, it doesn’t need to be perfect, just presentable. Old surfaces can also have more appeal than something that looks a little “too new”.

For early 60s GM, a 62 Olds Starfire is pretty stylish, and they aren’t insanely expensive.

WilliamsSW > fintail
06/27/2020 at 17:36

Yep -I want “nice driver quality”. No more.

Don’t blame you on the fintail. You wouldn’t recoup your investment, and it’s liable to make you end up driving it less.

I regularly shop for Starfire convertibles. They run 20-40k tops, except for the 61s. The transmission is a known headache on these, but otherwise they’re great cars.

WilliamsSW > fintail
06/27/2020 at 18:35

Like this. Not a Starfire, but damn nice and local to me:

https://nextgenclassiccars.com/1961-oldsmobile-dynamic-eighty-eight-convertible-asking-34900/

fintail > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 19:48

You could very likely get it for like half the price of the Impala too - and it is probably better to drive and own. That’s the way to do it.