(UPDATE) Besides not being a mechanic, but trying to be one anyway - What am I doing wrong?

"JasonStern911" (JasonStern911) 06/14/2020 at 18:29 • Filed to: None

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As we last left our incompetent shade tree mechanic:

!!! UNSUPPORTED LINE BREAK IN HEADER !!!

I am back to work, so free time is limited. Weather has been bad. Finally got a chance today in this “how did the temperature jump 20+ degrees in a day?” weather to try the “try heating it up and over-lubing the shaft” idea.

Removed the serpentine belt. Easy enough.

Try to remove the pulley to heat it up. Same “ clicking as opposed to applying sufficient force” problem as before.

Try to use a pry bar on the back to assist it as I used the puller and:

Damn it.

Don’t care about the pulley. It’s 20 years old. Cheap and in stock locally. Probably was the source of the problem to begin with. But now I went from a squealing accessory belt to an inoperable car, and I cannot get the pulley’s remains off to try to install a new one.

So, assuming the massively overpriced AutoZone pulley puller is insufficient to get the job done, what tool do I need? Any recommendations for a professional level tool?

Or is there some “as a mechanic for 30 years, the secret trick is ____” answer that I don’t know about?

Thank you!

On a side note, the rest of the restoration has gone well. Was caught a bit off guard by the price of a replacement key. Apparently Ford used security chips in the keys of their 2000 base model Mustangs. So what I was expecting to be a $3 replacement cost me $70. No big deal, but would have been nice to know when I was negotiating the sale price. MAF and throttle body cleaned easy enough. Headlights buffed out nice and look solid with replacement bulbs. Trunk struts replaced. New tires arrived - just need to get them mounted. The $500 restoration budget is getting iffy if I can’t fix the power steering issue, but other than that, it’s (hopefully) just fixing an exhaust leak (I imagine it’s one exhaust header - common problem ), a bit of exterior touch-up, and changing any neglected fluids plus SeaFoam fuel treatment and it should be solid runner .

But all of the easy to work on, cheap to replace parts, etc. benefits get negated with one bad engineering choice in the power steering pump pulley. Just bolt it to the pump. Or have a bolt connect the pulley to the rod and use a cotter pin. Ford’s solution is more complicated and less safe while providing zero benefit. I have to assume it was for cost, but then every mechanic needs to buy a more expensive pulley remover/installer kit, causing more expense in the big picture (albeit not to Ford).

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 19:00

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Rip out the pump and loop the lines.

ClassicDatsunDebate > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 19:02

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Oof.  Well if that was me, I’d apply a little heat ( don’t wanna fry the PS pump seals) and put two mechanics pry bars in between the steel brackets and the pulley and rock it off.  Visualize two largest flat head screwdriver shafts slid down on either side of the ps shaft.  Might need a tap to make sure it’s not cocked on the shaft.  Sorry can’t describe it any better....it’s a feel thing.

Jayvincent > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 19:04

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you may be able to borrow or rent a pulley puller from your local auto parts store if you don’t want the expense of buying one

MM54 > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 19:05

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If you’re replacing the pump and the pulley is already trashed, just take it out still on the old pump. Looks like you may have to cut some more chunks off to get it through the bracket but at this point, it’s not like you’re going to make it more broken

JasonStern911 > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 06/14/2020 at 19:07

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Loop the lines?

Now that the pulley shattered, I can get the pump out so that part is doable. But the bolts holding the pump to the engine are behind the pulley. So I can’t just take the assembly to a shop and say “fix this please”. Or at least that might not help with the re-installation. Not to mention that a tow plus shop labor would overrun my budget significantly.

But I mean paying someone that knows what they are doing makes far more sense than paying someone to fix one part of this and then leave me to mess up the rest.

This shouldn’t be as hard as it is. Nobody else seems to have these issues based on Google and YouTube research. But you buy a 20 year old car, you have to expect some problems...

JasonStern911 > MM54 06/14/2020 at 19:14

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If I have to pull it again, then yeah. That’s an option. But it seems like cutting the remainder off is fairly error prone.

Plus that undoes so much work. If there’s a mechanic grade pulley remover that people can recommend, I’d rather go that route in case I ever am in this situation again.

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > ClassicDatsunDebate 06/14/2020 at 19:33

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I’d flame heat it (naptha , propane, whatever) with the puller tensioned and a little penetration oil at the shaft  for some sizzle and smoke. Should come off like nothing. *Wear gloves for heat though.

I’ve had un- pullable bearings shoot off the shaft with no puller after a few minutes of just heat .

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 19:34

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If you loop the inlet and outlet lines and connect them to one another, the rack will stay lubricated and you can just run it without power steering.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 19:37

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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w87020?rrec=true

You need the correct style of puller tool that slips onto the lip right around the the center hole of the pulley. I’m guessing you used a gear puller style tool that was pulling from outer circumference of the pulley, which as you’ve learned is as likely to break the pulley as anything else.  

JasonStern911 > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 06/14/2020 at 20:14

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Ah. Car isn’t for me. Surprise gift for someone that needs power steering. But yeah, if it was my car, and knowing what it is, I could see going that route..

JasonStern911 > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 06/14/2020 at 20:17

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I used the AutoZone “one size fits all - it’s in stock and we know we have you by the balls, so we’ll charge you twice what Amazon is asking” pulley remover. Just hope they accept the return given a video of it failing and the pulley being in pieces.

Ordered something beefier. ETA Tuesday but I work. Expect another fun update in a week or two.

JasonStern911 > Jayvincent 06/14/2020 at 20:19

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I don’t mind buying tools like this so that I have them should me or a friend encounter a similar situation. I just need the tools to actually work. Plus if the auto parts store rental tool is the same cheap tool they sold me, then it would make no difference.

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 20:19

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Looks like a presses fiber pulley? Just finish breaking it off. Ot if you have a local snap-on/mac/matco etc dealer. Ask if you can borrow one? Good ones aren’t that expensive anyways, like 15 a week ;) so id you plan on using it more than once, get a gooder one.

JasonStern911 > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com 06/14/2020 at 20:22

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Part of me hates these solutions so much, but the other part of me is used to a $200 custom Porsche/BMW tool that serves this and only this purpose that solving a problem with fire sounds oddly satisfying .

JasonStern911 > GoodIdeaAtTheTime 06/14/2020 at 20:25

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“If a cheap Harbor Freight pry bar broke that much off, I’m sure it can break off the rest! ” is certainly a respectable answer. Doesn’t give me much confidence for the build quality of the rest of the car, though.

coqui70 > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 21:21

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Autozone and Advance Auto Parts have specialty tool loaners.

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 21:25

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I always try to work without employing such measures. However f ire/heat makes things like stuck pulleys and bearing much easier, some  corroded threaded things too.

I’ve always found i t’s both kind of surprising and aggravating that you look back and consider ‘W hy I didn’t do this XX time and a busted knuckle ago?’

Urambo Tauro > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 21:56

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That... doesn’t really help clear up what kind of puller you were using. AZ has a lot of different pullers and this type of pulley must be removed by that central snout only. Even a steel pulley should not be pried against, much less a composite/plastic one.

I checked your previous post and saw the correct type of installer being used, which appears to be part of a set that includes the correct remover as well. So I’m inclined to think that you’ve got the right one (albeit a cheap version). In which case, you shou ld be able to continue removing what’s left of the old pulley by the snout.

Lots of good advice in the replie s of that other post, BTW. Especially if you’re following the instructions in that video you posted in the comments. I don’t have much to add to all that, except that I think I would refrain from trying to heat a plastic pulley.

Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's > JasonStern911 06/14/2020 at 22:33

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At this point, harbor freight cut off wheel? Id just cut a slot into it, relieve some of the tension around the shaft and it should slide off. Heating with a $20 propane torch didnt do the trick? 

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > JasonStern911 06/15/2020 at 00:27

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My point was that any puller that connecting with the pulley around its circumference is the wrong tool for removing that pulley . A beefier one doesn’t fix that. They puller for that type of pulley is a small tool that just fits over the center lip on the pulley with a small center bolt to the shaft providing the force to press it off. As you learned , a puller applying force to the outer circumference of the pulley is going to result in deforming the pulley. That deformation tends to bind the pulley to the shaft with even greater force than the original press fit, making it much more likely to break the pulley than remove it.

JasonStern911 > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com 06/16/2020 at 22:05

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In hindsight, I probably should have replaced the pulley when I replaced the pump. New parts tend to go together nicer. But try to save a buck, and...

JasonStern911 > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 06/16/2020 at 22:08

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Check the video from post #1 . I was using the “correct” tool for the job. It wasn’t working. Since it wasn’t working, I figured applying force from multiple spots instead of a single not working spot might be enough to overcome whatever imperfection or wear was preventing the pulley from sliding off. I was clearly wrong, but not for lack of using a pulley puller.

JasonStern911 > coqui70 06/16/2020 at 22:09

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Are they higher quality than the cheap ones they sell for OMFGWTFLAMO prices?

JasonStern911 > Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's 06/16/2020 at 22:14

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I can definitely pull the pump and either remove myself or have someone remove the remainder. 3 mounting bolts and 2 hose connections.

But the problem is that you cannot remount the pump with the pulley installed due to clearance issues, as the bolts will hit the pulley .

So the real question is what is causing the need for an excessive amount of force to remove/reinstall the pulley and what can I do to alleviate this? New pulley ordered, so if it’s a deformity in the pulley, then problem solved there. But it would be nice to not have to pull the pump again if there’s a trick to removing it.

AutoZone pump also has a lifetime warranty that, just in case, I’d prefer not to void by bringing metal cutting equipment into the equation.

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > JasonStern911 06/16/2020 at 22:26

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It is, but usually not necessary.

No dice huh? Strange. I’ve dealt with some seriously stuck bearing and pulleys on shafts and heating them eventually expands them enough to unsettle from the shaft   that my  persuasion method of choice works (especially with the force of a puller).

coqui70 > JasonStern911 06/16/2020 at 22:32

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Yes - more of a pro-type tool  usually.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > JasonStern911 06/16/2020 at 23:10

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I didn’t see the video. Sorry about that. That’s unusual for a pulley like that that to come off pretty  easily. The next step I would try on that would be applying some heat around the center hole of the pulley via a torch to expand the pulley off the shaft some, and then apply a puller.

JasonStern911 > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 06/17/2020 at 21:31

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Unusual for it or unusual for it not to come off easy? Because EVERY YouTube video, sales video for a pulley puller, etc. make it look so easy even I could do it. /sigh

Might try the torch thing when I get a new pulley puller...

JasonStern911 > coqui70 06/17/2020 at 21:44

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Thanks. Might give that a try. Worst case, a sawzall saws all, right?

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > JasonStern911 06/17/2020 at 22:22

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Unusual for it to not come off easy. Some heat can be friend.