We have some good models for police reform

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo) 06/09/2020 at 08:23 • Filed to: None

1

15

I am bothered by calls to defund or disband police. I don’t think more or less money fixes this problem. But there are models out there that have shown progress for improvement. Here is one.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Just Jeepin' > ImmoralMinority 06/09/2020 at 08:29

6

I really like this approach: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/06/03/457251670/how-much-do-we-need-the-police

Basically: we’ve given them an impossible job, so let’s figure out how to offload as much as we can.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > ImmoralMinority 06/09/2020 at 08:36

0

What if you just had a single  California State Police Force...and an independent anti- corruption authority with investigative powers, judicial authority and with jurisdiction across the entire public service at the State level down into local government, including all politicians?

facw > Just Jeepin' 06/09/2020 at 08:46

7

Which is basically what the whole “defund the police” thing is getting at.

Thomas Donohue > ImmoralMinority 06/09/2020 at 08:47

6

The first time I saw the ‘defund the police’ slogan I was like “huh”? And then I read into it, and saw some models where they took 10 or 20% of the budget and put it towards community outreach programs, officer training, etc.

Silly name that grabs attention, but only causes further division.... instead of everyone sitting down at the table and saying “hey, how can we make this better for everyone?”

Just Jeepin' > facw 06/09/2020 at 08:47

1

Yeah, it’s just a terrible sound bite.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Just Jeepin' 06/09/2020 at 09:13

6

I’m not impressed. He never really answers the question, he always wants to dig down the the “root” problem. While he’s solving the root problem, the other issues don’t go away and we still need the police to deal with those problems.

Homeless - get them a house! This ignores the fact that in many places they do have a place to s tay but choose not to . I’ve been around a lot of homeless people and they can be both aggressive and violent. That requires policing.

Property theft - get them off drugs! Great idea. Recidivism rates for drug rehab are 40-60%. When they’re on drugs, they steal stuff. That requires policing.

Violence in schools - get them drug programs! Really? More drug programs? And what the hell are “safe injection facilities”? Google search... WFT?!? A “safe” place to take drugs?!? Are they going to keep them there while they are stoned? I thought the idea was to get them OFF drugs! Policing only happens in schools where there are violent kids causing problems. Parents absolutely lose their minds when kids bring weapons to school. When that happens, they immediately call for more policing and a remodel of the school into a “ safe” facility. Full disclosure, part of my wife’s job was building and remodeling schools and security is a big issue.

Let’s protest! Fine, protest. But keep it peaceful. As soon as you start breaking stuff, expect that the people charged with protecting that stuff are going to react. I notice that the media doesn’t spend a lot of time or effort talking to the people who lost everything to the “ protesters.” Even when they do talk to them, the stories get buried.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m outraged by some of the officers’ behavior. J ust yesterday they were caught slashing tires. That’s some grade-A bullshit. I’m all for reform. If an officer gets caught casually pepper-spraying a peaceful protester who’s lying on the ground, fire him. Give him reason to consider his actions before taking them.

People forget that police spend 90% of their time dealing with 3% of the population and those people are, by nature, troublemakers. Police devolve to the level of the people they are dealing with simply because they have to communicate with those people in the same language. Do that day in and day out, and it’s no wonder the police take on a negative “us vs them” attitude. They feel like they are on the front line of a war because that’s often what they see. They are heroes when they catch the bad guy.

I have an uncle who’s a career officer. I’ve been to the precinct and experienced what it’s like. I’ve been to a citizen’s police academy to experience some of their training (I was considering entering the police force myself) and I’ve felt the fear that comes from the training scenarios. The precinct is nothing like what’s portrayed on television. It’s more like a locker room with the same kind of bravado and BS you see between the players on a football team.

If you want to “ fix” the police, you have to fix the culture. Disbanding them is the quickest way to even more trouble down the road.

Just Jeepin' > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/09/2020 at 09:15

1

I certainly believe that culture plays a huge role (along with the union, hard to know which leads to which), but I definitely believe they have an impossible job. 

nermal > ImmoralMinority 06/09/2020 at 09:29

0

Pffffft the problem that we need to enact more of a “Freedom for me, other people need to #COMPLY” type of scenario.

Robot technology has improved to the point that they can even walk down stairs now. 

DipodomysDeserti > ImmoralMinority 06/09/2020 at 09:31

3

The call is to take some money from police budgets and put them towards community projects and community support (job training, mental health services, small business support, park restoration... ). I think focusing on local community rejuvenation efforts is a much better approach than relying on Uncle Sam to pull his head out of his ass.

  I think institutional reforms, as well as city organizational reforms and community reforms are needed. One change won’t solve this problem, it requires a comprehensive approach.

Based on your previous stances on government bloat and spending, I find it a bit confusing that you don’t think transfering money from a huge, bloated, bureaucratic governmental organization, to the local community would help create positive change.

From the 2nd page of the report:

“ The number of OIS has declined notably since the start of CRI-TA (a 36 percent reduction from 25 OIS in 2010 to 16 in 2015). However, study of OIS data over the past two decades demonstrates little long term change in the annual average number of OIS, despite year-to-year variation.”

Ni ne less shootings from the first year of the study to the last year of the study (5 years) , but little change in the aver age over the last twenty years despite these reforms. It’s a start, but by no means the answer.

someassemblyrequired > ImmoralMinority 06/09/2020 at 09:38

1

One of the best ideas I’ve seen is redirecting a lot of calls that would normally go to the police to specialized EMT teams. They’re a team of a paramedic (usually a cross-trained police officer) , mental health nurse and social worker that are able to go into overdose or mental health situations safely and have the knowledge/experience to respond without escalating things. It also frees up ambulances to deal with critical care needs, since they can usually respond just with an Explorer, instead of a full ambulance.

Long_Voyager94 > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/09/2020 at 10:05

1

Well said.

Thisismydisplayname > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/09/2020 at 11:01

0

The first three items you mentioned sound a lot like mental health items, counseling and treatment with a shrink, along those lines to try and address underlying issues that put people in those situations where they’d rather be homeless or abuse drugs.  And violent kids in schools, yeah sounds like someone to talk to might be helpful.  But there is definitely not a single item that will solve the issues, but we should try something in addition to the police force as our overall public assistance force.  

Chuckles > facw 06/09/2020 at 11:06

2

TheRealBicycleBuck > Thisismydisplayname 06/09/2020 at 11:24

1

Let’s be clear - the items were mentioned by the interviewee in the article and I’m just responding.

Mental health treatment and counseling are generally available to those in need. The problem is that many of those who need it choose not to avail themselves of it or when given medications to help, choose to stop taking that medication.

In other words, we have been trying something other than applying the police. The police don’t get involved until those other methods have already failed and the person in question is causing problems.

When I was in downtown Houston, there was one homeless fellow who could be found sitting in the same location every day. He never asked me for money, never caused a problem, and as far as I know, was never harassed by police.

In stark contrast were many other homeless people who asked for money every day. The ones who made a habit of yelling at people who didn’t respond to them or told them no would end up getting the attention of the police. That happened every few weeks.

The local shelter was just a few blocks down from where I was working. Many of the homeless would go there at night. A few would hunker down and sleep on the street. I don’t know if they weren’t welcome at the shelter or if they chose to sleep on the street.

Thisismydisplayname > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/09/2020 at 22:45

1

Good points.  That’s true, you can’t force people to get treatment, or keep up on meds.