Law blow

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 05/29/2020 at 09:33 • Filed to: mod edit

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So I am a bit confused here.

Section 230 protected places like oppo from getting sued over the content posted here by us.

Let’s say I post !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Oppo admins go in and change up my post to say - !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . They have edited my post or altered it to imply my post is not true.

I can then sue for changing what I said and infringing on my !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

If they left my post alone and someone walked 500,000 miles and never found the edge of earth, they can again sue oppo for misinformation provided on their blog.

So one way or another, someone is getting sued and places like this shut down...

Am I understanding this correctly or is there some other way I am not seeing?

Mod Edit: There is no oppo, only Zuul

duurtlang > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 09:50

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I guess what happened is:

PartyPooper2012:
The earth is flat.

was turned into:

PartyPooper2012:
The earth is flat.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Oppo:* Check independent facts about the supposed flatness of the earth here *

Information was added that is clearly identified as not coming from the original source. The original message is still there, unaltered. I would say: not in any way an infrin gement of freedom of speech.

jminer > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 09:50

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The part you’re missing is that you cannot sue Oppo if they change your stuff in your example. Content owners have the ability to moderate content and the first amendment doesn’t protect you from anything other than government censorship. Content moderation is hard though so that’s why most places do very little of it.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 09:50

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No one is sure yet how this would actually look because yes, our current way of interacting with websites like Oppo can not support it.

My guess would be there would be much heavier moderation on social media platforms unless you’re willing to risk “buying” your own part of a website or server. Imagine each post on Oppo having to be approved to be posted manually to ensure they represented something that Oppo could stand behind.

But that all hinges on the matter passing. And it hinges on people not immediately abusing the system. I don’t understand it because if I was Twitter, the first group of people I’d dump are politicians. Oh, you claimed you’re bringing a factory to my city? Great! I’ll invest there! Oh, it didn’t happen? SUE! Oh yay, you claimed you’re bringing a corrupt cop to justice over police brutality? Great! Oh, wait, nothing happened or changed and they did it again? SUE!...... I wouldn’t let a single one use my platform if that was the case.

Thomas Donohue > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 09:51

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oppo from getting sued

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I can then sue

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

they can again sue

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

someone is getting sued

“The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers” - Willy ‘ Shake n Bake’   Speare

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 09:52

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I can then sue for changing what I said and infringing on my 1st amendment rights.

Nope...the first amendment protects us from the government censoring or interfering with speech. Private companies can do whatever they want. This is what people who scream about Facebook and Twitter impeding their first amendment rights don’t get. I will say we are in a bit of a grey area though were certain private companies essentially have a monopoly on the platform provided to people and they can for the most part censor people if they really wanted to. I don’t think it’s really been addressed by the courts yet.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 09:56

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You can’t sue for 1st amendment violation, freedom of speech only protects against government censorship. Kinja is a private entity and is allowed to have control over who gets to say what on it.

PartyPooper2012 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 05/29/2020 at 09:58

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Interesting...

jimz > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 09:58

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I can then sue for changing what I said and infringing on my 1st amendment rights.

nope. Oppositelock (and G/O Media) are not the government. You could try  to sue, but if you found a lawyer dumb enough to take the case it wouldn’t get past the first judge. 

PartyPooper2012 > duurtlang 05/29/2020 at 09:59

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eehhh its casting doubt on my believes :)

jimz > jminer 05/29/2020 at 09:59

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just evidence that nobody reads the “user agreement” or “terms of use” when they sign up for this service.  

jimz > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 05/29/2020 at 10:00

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isn’t it funny that the people who are all about “Freedom” and “personal responsibility” are the first to whine that they can’t control others or have to take responsibility for their own actions? 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:00

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230 says they can’t change it into some obscene or defamatory.

However kinja terms of service, they have the right to edit your content.

If this is in regards to trumps EO this really meaningless unless FB Twitter gets nationalized.

PartyPooper2012 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 05/29/2020 at 10:01

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There are some interesting grey areas too... Meaning of life is 42 - who checks that?

Review FPS game and talk about headshots on enemies... is that violence that should be moderated?

Killing termites - genocide? 

PartyPooper2012 > Thomas Donohue 05/29/2020 at 10:03

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ummm... that’s glorifying violence. Your post should be hidden behind a disclaimer

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:04

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Claiming you plugged in a USB cable correctly on the first try? LIES AND SLANDER!

Claiming you’ve never once lost a 10mm socket despite the immediate vicinity not having an opening bigger than 9mm? BLASPHEMY!

Claiming your E36 has never had any cooling or electrical issues? SHOCK AND HORROR!

jminer > jimz 05/29/2020 at 10:04

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Also people think the 1st amendment protects them from everything. It only protects an individual from government action against them for something they say (or believe) but it even has limits in that realm.

You can (should) still very much be fired or shunned when you say or do something stupid or hateful or racist.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > duurtlang 05/29/2020 at 10:05

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They can edit to their heart’s content without violation of “freedom of sp eech”. Our first amendment only protects against government censorship. Twitter has every right to editorialize tweets and by using the platform you implicitly agree to that. Our own president does not understand our constitution.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > jimz 05/29/2020 at 10:06

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The current leader of the “party of personal responsibility”

If Republicans actually practiced the values they preached I’d probably be voting for them

nermal > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:11

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It’s about ethics in shitposting! 

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:14

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I’m sorry, but I couldn’t help myself, but the answers to your questions can be found by reading this bad boy. https://g-omedia.com/terms-of-service/

ranwhenparked > jminer 05/29/2020 at 10:14

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This is very true. Protection against government restriction on your freedom of speech is not the same thing as protection from consequences from your freedom of speech.

If a business or a public figure says something their customers/fans/audience doesn’t like, it’s their right to say it, but they don’t get to cry foul if their business drops off as a result of people getting pissed at them.

If you say something very publicly that's extremely offensive, and causes embarrassment to your employer as a result, they have every right to fire you. Particularly if you make yourself obviously identifiable as their employee.

PartyPooper2012 > jimz 05/29/2020 at 10:20

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Yeah. While user agreement should be read and understood, most people just agree because they want to use the service... For example, if you need to figure out how a gizmo on your car works and the answer is on a car blog that requires you to log in, you create a userID and password and get your answer. Reading and understanding the user agreement isn’t all that relevant - however invasive or malicious it might be

Thomas Donohue > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:21

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I am quoting historical fiction, with proper citation. Said work is also part of the public domain.

“ Sue me.”  -  John Bender

PartyPooper2012 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/29/2020 at 10:22

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Sure... but who has time for that? How many other online services are you a member of - rhetorical question. How many of those user agreements have you read?

I am sure I am not alone, but I have not read one of those. 

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:23

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None, but if you’re looking for answers about lawsuits, they’re always in the T&C

ttyymmnn > Thomas Donohue 05/29/2020 at 10:25

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Citations? Public domain? You sound like a Liberal Elitist™

PartyPooper2012 > Thomas Donohue 05/29/2020 at 10:26

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Sadly, this might be the most appropriately formed comment .

Let the record show defendant is stating his opinion and not a fact. Other comments may or may not be more or less appropriately formed. 

PartyPooper2012 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/29/2020 at 10:32

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I was more curious as to what this legal mumbo jumbo about section 230 was about and how it applies to places like twitter and oppo in its new iteration.

Thomas Donohue > ttyymmnn 05/29/2020 at 10:45

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I have read watched a movie in the 90's that was based on Shakespeare, good sir !!!!

I am culturally elite bankrupt!

Thomas Donohue > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:47

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Exactly!!!

fintail > Thomas Donohue 05/29/2020 at 10:52

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“Historical fiction” might be a good way to classify this regime and its predictable march into authoritarianism.

Dusty Ventures > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 10:52

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Suing Oppo would be hard considering we’re just three ducks in a trenchcoat

jimz > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 11:25

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as Steve Lehto has said numerous times, if you agree to a contract you are presumed to have read it. Your option is to not use the service if you disagree to its terms & conditions. There’s no “constitutional right” to use Oppositelock or anything G/O owns.

again, “freedom” does not mean “no one can tell me what to do, but I can tell everyone what to do.”

duurtlang > fintail 05/29/2020 at 11:30

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2020 has been a shipwreck of a year so far. I really am curious how 2021 will turn out, especially in the US. Most of the world will get back on its feet. The US though? With the intrinsic problems with your implementation of democracy, the polarized voter base, the lack of accessible proper media, the corrupt White House, the elections late 2020 , the elimination of the middle class and the in accessibility of proper health care for a big part of the population, 2021 might become a tipping point. Or nothing much will happen at all. I am very curious.

fintail > duurtlang 05/29/2020 at 11:36

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The elimination of the middle class is the real issue that can cause change. The racial injustice nightmare, while shameful, probably won’t change any national direction - the power structures are too firmly entrenched and have no accountability.   But if people are having a problem keeping a roof over their head and food on the table, well, we recall what happened the last time that was a big issue. It can go either way here , although with the shitty implementation of democracy you mention, is kind of guided to go in one way, and it won’t create progress.

American exceptionalism is truly a quaint ideal of the past.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2020 at 12:40

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The way I understand it, Oppo is a platform, not a producer. Therefore it cannot be held responsible for content unless those running Oppo have made a legally binding commitment to keep false information out. The responsibility would fall on you as a poster.

Twitter/Facebook/etc are walking on some thin ice here, as this can’t be a pick and choose issue. Thus far they’ve operated as a platform. Just like how a telephone company can’t be held responsible if someone plans a terrorist strike over their lines, nothing could be done. Now by making an attempt to police content, instead of leaving the users to do their thing, they get into the territory of a producer. If they decide to take something down, they can be held responsible. Conversely, if they then NEGLECT to take something down, they could be held responsible for sanctioning that message.

I don’t give a damn personally, I don’t get into social media. But were I running a platform like that, my response would be that it’s not my problem. I’m not running a newspaper, I’m running a glorified telephone company. Information is un vetted and you can’t believe all you read. (Funny how that’s been a saying for so long and we forget it when it would be most useful. ) Responsibility lies with posters to make sure of their facts, readers to check other sources and users to block abusive people users from interacting with them. I wouldn’t be touching that shitshow with a ten mile pole.

Of course, if they want to make the switch and become a publisher instead of a platform, that's their call... But it will take a drastic reworking to do it without a shitton of legal issues.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 05/29/2020 at 21:58

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they can still edit, which is repeated in the kinja user agreeement. 

“ Courts have consistently held that exercising traditional editorial functions over user-submitted content, such as deciding whether to publish, remove, or edit material, is immunized under Section 230.”

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/immunity-online-publishers-under-communications-decency-act

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/online-activities-covered-section-230

“ i.e., make an otherwise non-defamatory statement defamatory”

Now if you change it into some defamatory or obsce ne, that is a different story.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/30/2020 at 10:20

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Good to know.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 05/30/2020 at 10:47

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The only way his EO would have teeth, would be if twitter/FB were nationalized.