Good Morning, Oppo

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 05/27/2020 at 09:12 • Filed to: good morning oppo

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Oh, Canada.

Thomas Donohue > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 09:26

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Looks like a recent pic.  Empty airport.

ttyymmnn > Thomas Donohue 05/27/2020 at 09:31

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Brand new terminal at Dorval Airport (now Trudeau) in 1962. Probably not open yet. Or at least it still has that new terminal smell.

Thomas Donohue > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 09:38

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Just my luck.. T he red- eye gets in early, but there’s no one at the gate....

Roadkilled > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 09:50

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I can only remember flying on a DC-8 once, and that was a long time ago.

ranwhenparked > Roadkilled 05/27/2020 at 09:57

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Technically, we all can, since our thetans were all implanted with the same engram. 

ttyymmnn > Roadkilled 05/27/2020 at 10:02

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I never have. Not sure I ever flew on a 707 either. Most of my flights in those days were shorter, and usually a 727 or 737. 

Roadkilled > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 10:17

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I grew up in a small midwestern town with limited air service. Most flights were on a Fairchild Hiller 227 or DC-9. All the planes had air stairs at that airport. I only got to ride on big jets a few times in the 70s, including once on a DC-8. The 727 could carry almost as many people as the 707, and I only got to fly U.S. domestic routes. I don’t remember even seeing a passenger 707 at an airport in the 70s.

What surprised me was how long the DC-8 was used for cargo. According to Wikipedia, UPS retired its fleet of DC-8s in 2009.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ranwhenparked 05/27/2020 at 10:38

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My thetans all got laid off. Something about a weak economy right now..

facw > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 10:38

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I’m pretty sure I’ve never been on either a 707 (except a museum VC-135) or DC-8. Before my time I guess. 

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Roadkilled 05/27/2020 at 11:45

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FH-227 or DC-9?  Sounds like Ozark!

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 12:04

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Hey, I definitely need to walk back my comment the other day about the authenticity of that pic of the A320 in PK  with the engine nacelles abraded away. They indeed left dual patches of scorch marks on the runway in several spots with PIA Flight PK8303.

The PPrune pilots do seem to have it reasonably narrowed down. I’m watching the Juan Brown videos but he seems pretty fixated on a possible cause that’s been speculated... and not proven...but the FDR should tell the tale. Last I knew the CVR was still lost.

Juan seems to like the theory that an abnormal overspeed warning means the PLANE inhibited the lowering of the gear... which I guess is possible, but the pilots would have had lots of visual and audible cues of this event, so it’s not clear why they attempted a belly landing. More to follow, I’m sure.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 12:07

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UAL used DC-8s on a lot of longer-ish routes. I remember a DEN-PDX leg years ago on one and they used to fly to Hawaii out of SFO and LAX on them.

A buddy and I flew to Europe many years after that on one of the few remaining 707s in the air....  it was a bucket-fare charter from the midwest to Gatwick.  Seemed pretty dated by then.  We got a great fare, but sorely missed the comfort of the 747s

ttyymmnn > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 05/27/2020 at 12:11

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Well, I certainly shared your skepticism. Like you, still wondering how or why they got so low without any gear down. At that point, it probably would have been better to continue the belly landing. I sure hope they find that CVR.

ttyymmnn > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 05/27/2020 at 12:14

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My fondest memory of that era was when my brother and I were flying unaccompanied between our divorced parents. Not only did we get a proper tour of the cockpit, but the captain let us handle the throttles on pushback. No chance of that any more, sadly. And probably pretty damned illegal, but still a fantastic memory for a 10 year old kid. 

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 12:17

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If you’ve watch the PP thread— man they have some detailed photos of what’s mounted in that section of the engine (short answer: lots of important stuff!). And those “control law envelope” diagrams from Airbus training materials that sort out “terrain warning” from “gear not down”.

It seems likely that, if a single speed sensor could do this, that a “bug”, which Juan appeared to suggest would have been seen years ago. The ATC tape actually has the audible warning (which likely had multiple causes)... so CRM might be a contributing factor.

IT’s a weird one though.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 12:21

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Funny, I saw an aerial photo of Ohare from my childhood period and could just make out the area I’m sure my mom unloaded my sister and me from an FH-227 to scurry into the terminal for an outrageously (for a little kid) long walk to an Eastern Airlines gate.

Oddly, major sections of ORD haven’t changed all that much in 50 years. That goofy triangular-bridge section in the American terminal was(and is) a remnant of an expansion gone wrong decades ago.

ttyymmnn > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 05/27/2020 at 12:29

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Funny, that’s the airport my brother and I used to fly through. Our dad lived in VA, our mom lived in IL, by that time all the way the hell out in Sandwich. One year we got so much snow (maybe winter of 76?) that they shut down ORD for three days and we got an extended winter vacation. Spent the first night in the airport, drove slowly back to Sandwich the next day. That might have been the same winter they discovered all the dead kids under Gacy’s house. I still remember watching that on the Chicago news. Anyway, we got to know ORD very well, and would often arrive early so we could hang out in the Seven Continents and watch the planes. I would say that those experiences, being at the huge airport, flying unaccompanied, experiencing the excitement and hustle and bustle, is what made my an aviation nut to this day. 

Only Vespas... > ttyymmnn 05/27/2020 at 12:38

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Sweet Diesel Eight! As a kid I flew one to H awaii from LAX.  I remember they had the lights and call buttons in the headrest over your right shoulder.  Still rocking today, unlike the 707.  They never stretched out the 07 like they did the 8.  My last flight on a 707 was from Georgetown Guyana to MIA. The captain and fight engineer were a husband and wife team.  That plane was so smooth on takeoff.  Like a big Coupe de Ville.  

ttyymmnn > Only Vespas... 05/27/2020 at 12:49

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Neat. Douglas got clobbered at first by the 707, but they had the last laugh in the end.