Plane Spotting: Grognard Warning [solved]

"ClassicDatsunDebate" (gmagnusson) 05/24/2020 at 21:30 • Filed to: None

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Identify the following two engine make/model. (No cheating with google images. Honor system) Edit: I mean don’t use Google Image Search...snoop around the internet all you like

Edit: research and figure out the country which will lead you to the type of aircraft which will lead you to the Manufacturer of the aircraft which will lead you to the model. the variants will lead you to the engine make/model. Not everyone’s cup of tea but I love going down the rabbit holes sometimes.

Edit for answer: Some of you were getting close. This was a tough one out of the gate. Takes patience and research and as I say, I love this stuff but it’s not for everyone.

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:24

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Is Grognard some sort of clue?

Spaceball-Two > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:27

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Is it a Beaufighter?

ClassicDatsunDebate > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:28

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no...just gamer slang for old school wargamer. pro level knowledge

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 05/24/2020 at 17:28

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no...just gamer slang for old school wargamer. pro level knowledge

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:29

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I couldn’t wait, so I cheated a bit. I did not GIS your picture, though. I made an educated google search guess.  I think I at least know the manufacturer. I absolutely would not have guessed it otherwise.

ClassicDatsunDebate > Spaceball-Two 05/24/2020 at 17:32

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nah mate

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:32

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I’m guessing Axis based on my knowing our stuff pretty well, it has a gun and looks WWII era. 

facw > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:34

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Looks like it has Japanese roundels (though I suppose it could just be a red outer ring). Either way, I don’t know.

ClassicDatsunDebate > facw 05/24/2020 at 17:37

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there’s other paint clues

ClassicDatsunDebate > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 05/24/2020 at 17:38

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WWII era, yes.  And it does have an axis

facw > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:40

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Now you have me thinking it’s Spanish, though I still wouldn’t know the plane.

Maxima Speed > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:49

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I fight really know WW2 planes that  well. Gonna guess Mitsubishi K- Something?

ClassicDatsunDebate > Maxima Speed 05/24/2020 at 17:53

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first step is i d- ing the aircraft. second step is figuring out the variant which will lead you to the engine type

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 17:59

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You want the engine make/model? Dang, that’s nuts!

Roadkilled > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 18:10

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I have no clue of what the aircraft may be. However, didn’t the Vichy planes have the red/yellow stripes? If so, the red circle could be the outer ring of the French r oundel.

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 05/24/2020 at 18:13

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I enjoy going down the rabbit hole...lol. I edited the OP with the steps I take. Me and my flight sim buddies would do this all the time.

ClassicDatsunDebate > Roadkilled 05/24/2020 at 18:24

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Is that a rabbit hole of WWII aircraft images and websites you’ re going down?

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 18:25

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Okay, you’re telling us to research, so I’ll disclose what I found out with an educated Google search (not a GIS). Pretty sure the maker is Lioré et Olivier. Haven’t gotten into the model yet. 

Roadkilled > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 18:27

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I’m trying to figure out the aircraft without searching first. When I see the engines that close to the front of the plane, I think it may be German. However, that wouldn’t match the paint.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 18:34

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Ah so it is All ied.

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 18:41

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My LeO guess was wrong. I know what it is now. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 19:05

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Enough red thingies to say Japanese? Only manufacturer I know is Mitsubishi and only non-fighter model I know is Betty. Knowing engine make/model would be nuts .

ClassicDatsunDebate > VincentMalamute-Kim 05/24/2020 at 19:20

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Google what a Betty looks like. You could also google red/yellow stripes.

ttyymmnn > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 05/24/2020 at 19:38

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Sort of....

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 19:58

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I’m going to go with Bréguet 693 , with either Hispano Suiza 14AB radial or P&W R-1535.

VincentMalamute-Kim > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 20:04

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ok, Google reminded me I also know about the dive bomber, Nakajima Kate. I guess Nakajima isn’t around anymore unlike Mitsubishi.

You got me spending more time on this than I wanted! TIL-never even considered that France had an air force in WWII. But even Google didn’t provide a quick answer to make/model without more time investment. Without using GIS, this is as much time I want to spend down in this rabbit hole - so whatever this bomber is:

Looks funky enough to be of French manufacture. You definitely did not want to give us an easy puzzle. (I see a couple of people here know enough / willing to google enough to give the answer )

Only Vespas... > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 20:09

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Breguet BR  690 series.  Those stripes on the cowls gave it away as Vichy French.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 20:27

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Beufighter?

ClassicDatsunDebate > VincentMalamute-Kim 05/24/2020 at 20:37

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The image you posted has the answer right aircraft. hehe.  I think Ttyymmnn has it though....almost

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 05/24/2020 at 20:41

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Soooo close. You’ve got the Bre.693 right. Wrong powerplant.

The second photo is also a Breguet but not a 693 per se (evil grin).  You have the powerplant manufacturer right, but think more common model of engine 

VincentMalamute-Kim > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 20:41

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The website is amusing:

While the French air force probably spent more time painting their planes than actually flying them during World War 2, there is little information about them available. This is not suprising, as they probably still don’t want to talk about it.

Despite leading the world in military aviation during World War I, the Armee de L’Air put up a very poor showing in World War II. During the interwar years, their aircraft industry failed to modernize, and a lack of inspired leadership resulted in a chaotic state of affairs that reduced their once impressive service to near impotence by the time the Luftwaffe filled the skies in 1940.

French pilots found themselves with an outdated fleet of hangar queens and no clear strategic doctrine, and their few airworthy planes soon littered the French countryside like lawn darts at a family picnic.

But they blended in nicely with the landscape.

ClassicDatsunDebate > VincentMalamute-Kim 05/24/2020 at 20:43

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Kinda like Italian WWII aircraft.  They looked beautiful....on the ground.

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 20:44

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Then I’ll guess Bréguet 697 with some obscure-ass Gnome/Rhone radial. 

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 20:50

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Oh wait, you said more common. Well, I only have the Wiki to go by, and I can only see three engine options. 

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 05/24/2020 at 21:26

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Yeah this was a tough one to start. The wiki probably isn’t the most concise reference. Remember who writes its content ...lol.  I’ll post up the answer. You were pretty much there.

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 21:57

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Somebody ID’d the red and yellow cowling as Vichy, and that really helped. Do another one. I like these things. 

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/24/2020 at 22:15

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I’ve been doing some digging, and I wonder if your book is correct on the engine for the 695. From what I can find, the Twin Wasp Junior (1535) was the only one that had the designation SB4G (with the hyphen appearing in various places). Near as I can tell, the 1830 Twin Wasp did not have that designation. I have seen other sources that only say the 695 had the SB4G, so I’m leaning towards the correct engine being the R-1535 SB4G Twin Wasp Junior, not the 1830. 

ttyymmnn > VincentMalamute-Kim 05/24/2020 at 22:19

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That’s hilarious, and sadly accurate. Do you have the link to that?

facw > facw 05/24/2020 at 22:22

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Still wrong I guess...

VincentMalamute-Kim > ttyymmnn 05/24/2020 at 22:23

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https://boomandzoomgraphics.com/french_camo_guide.html

ttyymmnn > VincentMalamute-Kim 05/24/2020 at 22:28

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Thanks.

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 05/24/2020 at 23:49

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You Are correct. M akes more sense based on the year and HP. Here’s primary info straight from the source....