THE MISSION CREEP IS REAL

"Jim Spanfeller" (awesomeaustinv)
05/13/2020 at 12:47 • Filed to: phoebe, Thunderbird

Finally, it’s looking like I’ll be able to start working on my Thunderbird again. This has gotten me reflecting on how big this project has gotten since it started... I remember reading about “mission creep” and thinking it wouldn’t happen, but it’s exactly what’s happening. I thought the engine running poorly was an issue with tuning, but that turned into compression loss. That became “the piston ring in this cylinder is bad”, which led to “the others are probably not great either”, and pretty soon I’m replacing all the rings. Along the way, the cylinder heads don’t look too great. Turns out the valves are loose and leaky, and I’m going to need to send the heads to a machine shop... if any are even still open. A few bolts were broken, gotta fix that. And the rod cap bearings are looking a little worn as well, better replace those... Heck, sometimes I wonder how the engine was running at all if it was this bad. Replacing a couple piston rings is turning into a full engine rebuild.

But on the bright side, I suppose at least I’m gaining a lot of practical knowledge from this experience. Certainly, smaller repairs won’t look so intimidating in the future. And when this is all done, in theory the engine should run like new again. It’ll hopefully go back to having the full ~290-300 horsepower and 14-16 mpg, instead of getting what, 5 mpg? I can only imagine how exciting it will be when the old 390 v8 finally fires up again...

DISCUSSION (34)

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 12:58

I bet Phoebe misses you after so long alone in that dark damp jail of a garage. She's done her time though. I hate to crush your optimism but those factory specs were measured in ideal conditions with the engine out of the car and all accessories taken off. So, maybe 10 mpg so your fuel economy will double!

fintail > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:00

This is why I don’t get too deep into “restoring” the fintail - Pandora’s Box. Do paint/body then the chrome looks bad then the upholstery looks bad then the wood looks bad then the engine needs to match the body then I’m out 60 grand.

The 390 in the 66 Galaxie I drove when I was 16 seemed to get 10-12 no matter if you burbled around town or cruised the interstate.

Jim Spanfeller > fintail
05/13/2020 at 13:06

I’m basically restoring Phoebe slowly as I have more time and money... At the moment, I’m just focusing on keeping her in good mechanical shape so I can actually use the car. And she really was running very poorly before all of this... So now that the engine’s half disassembled anyway, this is probably the most convenient time to replace anything internal that’s worn out.

Jim Spanfeller > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
05/13/2020 at 13:08

Yeah, you have to take those specs with a grain of salt... That’s why I’ve just adjusted the horsepower ratings in my head to “pre-1970's” and “post-1970's”. You have to think of both differently...

jeepoftheseus > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:10

I am all to familiar with mechanics mission creep. Last year, a blown head gasket creeped into an engine rebuild, a reman transmission (hey a fresh motor deserves all five gears) and the axle seals need to be replaced but, oh my, I wonder how the clutch pa cks look in that limited slip.... oh, we’re gonna rebuild that to? Okay then.

Worth every minute and penny though!

Jim Spanfeller > jeepoftheseus
05/13/2020 at 13:13

That’s what I’m telling myself... I’m not touching the transmission, though. It works okay as-is, so I’m not touching it unless it gets real bad.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:19

When it eventually wears out, more gears would do wonders for usability. My friend replaced his 4 speed auto in his prized notchback Mustang with a modern 6 speed manual and he says it is a massive improvement.

shop-teacher > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:19

Once you’re down on compression, it just makes sense to do a proper rebuild.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > shop-teacher
05/13/2020 at 13:27

Or swap for a supercharged blueprint stroker right?

sony1492 > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:36

But any time you dig into a motors internals(past the head) shouldn't one expect a full rebuild?

fintail > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:36

You’re lucky in that your engine isn’t insanely expensive to rebuild, as well. I guess if one has the time and resources, there’s no time like now.

I have a similar focus on my old car, keeping it roadworthy, so I can drive it. Restoration is a cool idea, but is financially insane, and realistically I couldn’t afford it properly without making it a 10+ year project. Besides, unrestored/”patina” cars are the thing today anyway, and I doubt that will change.

LastFirstMI is my name > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:50

And you might as well drop in a bigger cam and an aluminum intake, a new 4 barrel carb.... you don’t want all that new-found compression going to waste, right? And those 390 intakes are so heavy you’ll save like 300 pounds ;)

jeepoftheseus > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 13:55

Just take it one system at a time so you can enjoy it in between projects if you’re doing the work yourself. That’s a sweet ride you’ve got!

LastFirstMI is my name > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI
05/13/2020 at 13:55

This guy makes a lot of sense, listen to him

shop-teacher > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI
05/13/2020 at 13:58

Right! Wasn’t that obvious?

Brian, The Life of > fintail
05/13/2020 at 14:10

I have been in this cycle with my Mustang for a year. I need to stop ... right after I redo the front seats ... that’s it, I swear!

fintail > Brian, The Life of
05/13/2020 at 14:25

I've learned to be happy with "10 footer" status. The car is clean, roadworthy, and looks pristine from a small distance. And this way I can drive it and not worry about small things.

Jim Spanfeller > LastFirstMI is my name
05/13/2020 at 15:52

It actually already had an aluminum intake and an aftermarket 4-barrel carb when I bought it... As for the cam? NOOOO!!! This is a big enough project already!

Jim Spanfeller > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
05/13/2020 at 15:57

I have toyed with the idea of replacing the three-speed auto with a more modern automatic when it wears out... The engine is in theory fairly powerful for the time, and it’s a midsize car with typical weight for a muscle car of the time, so it could actually have muscle car-ish performance if the transmission weren’t devouring all of it.

Jim Spanfeller > shop-teacher
05/13/2020 at 16:02

And I’m planning on keeping this car for a long time, so this is all stuff that would’ve worn out to the point of breaking completely eventually anyway. So it makes sense to do everything I can now to make sure the car is mechanically happy. The car had about 96,000 miles on it when I bought it, I’ll do whatever I can to get another 96,000 out of it ;)

Jim Spanfeller > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI
05/13/2020 at 16:03

I considered that, but I think they cost a liiiiiitle bit more than I’m willing to spend right now...

Jim Spanfeller > fintail
05/13/2020 at 16:06

‘Murica, the land where old v8's grow on trees! I’m glad costs haven’t gotten too insane yet. I’m holding my breath for eventual bodywork and paint... that’s going to be painful for my wallet assuming I get around to it.

Jim Spanfeller > sony1492
05/13/2020 at 16:08

Probably. But it looked like it was just the piston rings...

fintail > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 16:19

And fuel is cheap, so you can enjoy it.

Body and paint would probably be similar to mechanical work on my car. Not counting chrome, a decent respray with bodywork might be 15K - and this isn’t complete concours quality, just something that shouldn’t need to be redone in 5 years. Hard pill to swallow, I think I’ll keep it as-is.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 16:25

This is real. I have some ideas for my 240, mostly restoration work to get it/keep it good, and then some mods. But then I think about it long enough, and I end up falling down a rabbit hole that basically ends up with me having the car 100% disassembled in my garage and working back up from a bare shell, at which point I wonder if it would be easier or harder to just build a car from scratch?

Jim Spanfeller > fintail
05/13/2020 at 16:26

The only part that really bothers me is that there’s a big dent in the passenger-side door. It’s only one bend, so it should be fixable, but it’s very noticeable and the paint doesn’t look great in that area. There’re a couple other smaller dents and dings on other parts of the car, and there’s a wavy panel under the rear bumper that really o ught to be straight. None of these things impair the car’s ability to function as a car, and I wouldn’t say they make the car ugly or anything, but they just bother me a little. Nevertheless, mechanical well being takes priority, so the other stuff will have to wait until much later.

fintail > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 16:33

Maybe you could get lucky and find another door in the same color? Use it as a temporary part until more work is done. My car has numerous little dings, a couple small weird dents on the roof due to the prior owner storing a boat on the car, etc, but they all seem to vanish when viewed from several feet away. I am OK with that, I want to drive it rather than park it in a gallery. Your car looks fine in photos, too, but dearly needs hubcaps :)

Jim Spanfeller > fintail
05/13/2020 at 16:39

Problem is, the paint is not the original color. Orange was not a factory offering, so finding another in that color would be difficult to say the least... I agree with you on the hubcaps, though. I have a full set of them, and after I sent them to be repaired, I’m hoping they’ll actually stay on the car now. But the problem seems to have something to do with rims being more flexible back then because bias-ply tires were stiffer than radials and didn’t flex as much. What I really want for it is a set of the kind of styled steel wheels that came on old M ustangs, and the bolt pattern is the same so that should be doable, although I think the rim diameter on the Thunderbird might be an inch wider...

fintail > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 16:51

Oh damn, didn’t know that about the paint. Looks good on the car anyway. Would you repaint it the same color? I wonder if there’s a special hubcap lock or something similar you could use. Period correct wheels would look good, too - maybe a spacer of some sort could help.

Jim Spanfeller > fintail
05/13/2020 at 16:55

I was thinking of repainting it red, but since then the orange paint has grown on me. It makes the car a bit unique, and ads to its character I think. So I would still paint it orange. I’ve also heard that sticky silicone strips work great for keeping hubcaps from falling off, although you have to apply new ones every time you remove the hubcap and put it back on.

DirtyDodge > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 17:24

I rebuilt the 318 interceptor motor in my 85 dodge diplomat and i can honestly say the results are night and day, i never remember the engine running this good or making this level of power.

shop-teacher > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 17:29

That’s a pretty good chunk of miles for an old engine. You should be proud that it lasted that long.

fintail > Jim Spanfeller
05/13/2020 at 17:40

I t also suits the car - Ford had kind of a tomato red in the early 60s that this doesn’t appear to be too far form. Silicone strips might be the solution, how often do you plan to remove the hubcaps :) It’s once a year at most for my old car.

Jim Spanfeller > shop-teacher
05/13/2020 at 19:13

And considering how reliable it was with that many miles and in that condition... I’d say it’s actually a very reliable car. It’s quite the impressive survivor.