COVID-19 VS. The Civil War.

"Jim Spanfeller" (awesomeaustinv) 05/12/2020 at 17:38 • Filed to: Warning: this post contains a works cited section!

7

47

“Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.” - Sir Winston Churchill

The Real Danger of COVID-19

Most will probably agree that the current social and political climate surrounding the novel coronavirus has made the world a very scary place, with threats to the economy, the elderly, and those with weak immune systems looming ominously. However, this peculiar climate has happened before. On April 12, 1861, America was plunged into the Civil War, and the events leading up to this moment are very similar to what’s going on in America right now. My goal in writing this is not to pick sides or spread fear, but to draw parallels, and hopefully shed some light on how we can learn from history.

First, some background. In the 1790’s, the invention of the cotton gin caused the cotton industry to explode, resulting in an increased demand for slaves to work on plantations. Slavery was a viable labor system and made the South wealthy. As the southern economy became ever more dependent on cotton, it became ever more dependent on slaves to keep it going. At the height of the cotton industry in the South, 75% of cotton was produced on plantations with farms of 10 or more slaves. Southern plantations were supplying Europe with 90% of its cotton, and cotton accounted for about half of all U.S. exports. As the North began to call slavery into question, the threat of losing a slave for the South would’ve been like someone today losing stocks or property. And have you ever seen someone voluntarily give up two billion dollars’ worth of property?

Most people today are dependent on their jobs for income, but with the novel coronavirus, most of them are being told to stay home. According to an article in the Idaho Press, “The economic devastation writ by COVID-19 is clear: 26.4 million people have lost their job in the last five weeks, millions of homeowners are delaying mortgage payments and food banks are seeing lines of cars that stretch for miles. Forty-six percent of all Americans say their household has experienced some form of income loss from layoffs, reduced hours, unpaid leave or salary reductions” (“AP-NORC poll: Most losing jobs to virus think they’ll return,” 2020, April 25). Many workers deemed “unessential” have lost their livelihood and are desperately trying to keep working so that they can continue to provide for their families. At the same time, many others are criticizing them, saying that they are endangering the lives of others by keeping businesses open. The divisive issue of our day is the right to economic opportunity vs. federal government mandates that threaten our country’s economy for the sake of protection of a vulnerable population. That’s the issue that caused the South to ultimately secede.

According to the documentary, “The Divided Union: The Story of the American Civil War,” there were plantation owners who thought that perhaps slavery was not the best solution in the long run, but that until then, slavery was what they had to work with. What really made the South hostile to the North was that not only was the North condemning slavery, it was condemning slave-holders as well. The Southerners were proud, thinking of themselves as very patriotic and American. They had their own sense of honor. Because of this, they felt profoundly insulted when Northern Abolitionists called them sinners, barbarous, un-patriotic, and un-American. Because of that, even the southerners who agreed slavery was not the best solution felt personally attacked. As tensions grew, both the North and the South felt like they had a moral high ground. Abolitionists viewed slavery as an evil that had no place in a country founded on freedom. Southerners felt that the states had the right to make their own laws to ensure personal freedom and economic prosperity – even if those laws only benefitted slave owners.

Today, both the people who think we should all stay at home and the people who want to go back to work also feel like they have a moral high ground. The people who want to go to work think it’s wrong to ruin the economic wellbeing of millions of people just to lower the chances that people with compromised immune systems or the elderly will get sick. They feel like it is their constitutional right to provide for their families, and extreme quarantine measures enforced by the government limit their freedom. On the other hand, the pro-quarantine population think it’s wrong to go to work when doing so puts the lives of others at risk. Just as the North felt emboldened by the writings of abolitionists like Harriet Tubman, those in favor of quarantine feel supported by the media’s portrayal of the risks of COVID-19.

The danger, then, is that when both sides feel they have a moral high ground and start throwing accusations and blame at the other side, people become defensive because they feel personally attacked. The more divisive our rhetoric, the more divided our nation will become. For instance, Monique Hewan, a nursing student in Cold Spring, Kentucky, said in an interview with the Associated Press, “The outbreak only appears to have intensified political tensions as some Republican governors make plans to reopen and to ease other restrictions aimed at slowing the spread of the virus. ‘It all depends on whether you’re red or blue as to how you think about it,’ she said. ‘The calls for older people to die for the sake of the economy – it’s just insanity’” (“AP-NORC poll: Most losing jobs to virus think they’ll return,” 2020, April 25). This quote is a demonstration of how people who think they have the moral high ground ascribe motive to the other side. Someone who wants to go to work is accused of wanting older people to die for the sake of the economy.

One of the questions that has come up is whether decisions regarding COVID-19 are a state or federal issue. Westward expansion was what made slavery a federal issue. The South wanted the new states to allow slavery. Each state has two Senate seats, so each slave-holding state gave the South more influence in the federal government. The lead up to the Civil War was about the future of southern representation in Congress, not just the current situation at that time. The South and North had been living in compromise for years, but westward expansion threatened the status quo.

The Republican party was created as a platform for the anti-slavery movement. Although Lincoln – the first Republican president - was a moderate who wanted to preserve the Constitution, and had been willing to continue with the status quo, the fact that there was no southern representation in the Republican party meant that the South viewed the election of a Republican president as grounds for secession. They felt backed into a corner with no hope of future compromise.

How does this relate to America today? Westward expansion looked toward the future of the country. As governors are rolling back restrictions, they are making decisions that similarly affect the future of the country. How these decisions are handled, and their outcome will have a major impact on the lives of millions of people. If there is a surge in COVID-19 deaths due to restrictions being eased too quickly, there is potential for a backlash of people demanding the federal government take over. If a president is elected who proposes federal control over all decisions related to COVID-19, states with Libertarian-leaning governors might push to secede because they believe the right to work should be in the hands of the states, determined by the wishes of the people in that state.

This kind of backlash is not far-fetched. If a Democratic president is elected in November, Democrats are likely to lean toward strong federal government control over decisions relating to COVID-19. But even if Trump is re-elected, he has already shown that he is not afraid to take control away from governors if he believes they are not doing a good job. On Monday, April 13, Trump asserted that it’s his call to decide how and when to reopen the economy. He later reversed his statement, but it still stands as a demonstration that he is willing to take control away from the states if he believes it’s in the best interest of the country to do so. It was Lincoln’s election that pushed the South to secede, and our upcoming election could similarly influence states to secede if they feel their rights will be threatened by that president.

If the president does strip authority from states, there will be protests. In fact, protests have already begun. On Friday, April 17, according to the Idaho Press, “More than 1,000 protestors gathered at the Idaho Statehouse Friday afternoon in defiance of Gov. Brad Little’s extension of the statewide stay-at-home order” (“Hundreds defy Idaho’s stay-at-home order at Capital protest,” 2020, April 18). According to an article in the Associated Press on April 23, in Olympia, Washington, “The sheriff of Washington’s third largest county says he won’t enforce Gov. Jay Inslee’s stay-at-home order to slow the spread of the coronavirus, saying it violates people’s constitutional rights.” In that same article, House Republican Leader J.T. Wilcox warned public patience is hitting a tipping point if some changes aren’t made soon. Those changes are being called for by Republican gubernatorial candidate Joshua Freed who sued Governor Inslee in federal court, “challenging the current prohibition on religious gatherings under the stay-at-home order. The complaint contends the prohibition is a violation of First Amendment rights pertaining to religious freedom, free speech and assembly” (“Inslee faces growing resistance to stay-at-home orders,” 2020, April 23). The question that seems to be on the mind of many of these protesters is whether the government’s actions are constitutional or not.

As it turns out, it is constitutional under certain circumstances, for the government to enforce quarantine measures. According to experts in an article in the Idaho Press, “This area of law has been well settled for approximately 200 years if not longer. Time after time, courts have upheld a state’s authority to enact and enforce a quarantine law, and that dates back at least to 1902. A lot of what we’re seeing by the protesters, they’re arguing that the quarantine law is antithetical to the constitution’s first three words, ‘We the people’, But ‘we the people’ does not mean that every individual gets to do what every individual wants… “we the people” is effectuated by our representative government. Infringing upon a constitutional right is different from violating it. Most people don’t like to admit it, but our fundamental rights are not absolute. The government actually can infringe upon them in certain circumstances. Typically, that requires the government to show that it has a compelling government interest, in order to infringe upon one of our constitutional rights” (“Why stay-at-home orders during pandemics are legal, constitutional,” 2020, April 26).

The government needs legal justification in order to infringe on our constitutional rights. But have the authorities proven that these extreme measures infringing on our rights are justified? That’s the real question here, and it’s a question that cannot be easily answered. It’s not black and white, and there’s still a lot of uncertainty surrounding it. It is not clear to everyone that the measures will be effective, or that the threat of disease is greater than the threat of depression. The threat of depression is not only economic, but emotional as well.

According to a survey mentioned in the May 1 Idaho Press, “As the coronavirus pandemic upends lives across the United States, it’s taking a widespread toll on people’s mental health and stress levels.” The survey found that roughly two-thirds of Americans felt nervous, depressed, lonely, or hopeless in the past week, and 14% said they felt reactions such as sweating, becoming nauseous, and hyperventilating when thinking about their experience with the pandemic. “Physical distancing, the lack of predictability, economic upheaval, and the inability to mourn the death of loved ones in traditional ways all are taking their toll,” said Dr. Karestan Koenen, a professor of psychiatric epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health (“Really Struggling,” 2020, May 1). So while the physical health of those with weakened immune systems is a concern, the mental and emotional health of everyone else should be taken into consideration as well. Mental and emotional distress have a way of spilling over into physical health, job performance, and relationships, which also affect our country’s wellbeing.

According to Gus Faucher, chief economist at PNC Financial Services Group, who was quoted in the Associated Press on April 30, “The longer consumers are stuck at home and can’t get to their jobs, the greater the structural damage to the U.S. economy – permanent loss of household income, permanent business closures, permanent job losses, reduced business investment – which would prevent a strong rebound” (“Economists: No quick rebound from recession,” 2020, April 30). If we do not have a strong economic rebound, the stage is set for protests that could lead to the secession of states who feel it is in the best interests of their citizens to prioritize their economic wellbeing over extreme quarantine measures. Not only that, but if the next president decides to push for federal control over decisions relating to COVID-19, states with Libertarian-leaning governors may see this as a states’ rights issue, like the South, and use that as further grounds for secession.

Just as in the pre-Civil War time, there is name-calling, and both sides already feel like they have a moral high ground. All that’s left is for prolonged economic uncertainty and the fear of economic devastation due to a future federal overreach in response to a COVID-19 spike to set the country on a path towards another sort of Civil War. Only this time, it won’t be geographic, but between Red and Blue states.

I want to be clear that I am not trying to vilify those who are protesting extreme quarantine measures by comparing them to the southern slave-owners. I’m simply drawing parallels to show what can happen in this country when an underrepresented group feels like their livelihood is threatened. Slavery is evil, but the desire to work and support your family is not. However, those who have been deemed “unessential” and want the right to work are being treated as though they are just as evil, and that kind of treatment only pushes people to dig in their heels even more, rather than compromise.

So is our country doomed? No. It’s on thin ice, but it’s not too late to save it. No matter what group we side with, we all need to try to understand the other side’s point of view. There are very strong cases to be made for both arguments, and the issue is not black and white. Our fellow man is not the enemy, a virus is. Name-calling only divides us, and if we’re going to have any hope of emerging from this pandemic strongly, we need unity. This situation has left us all scared, but letting that fear and anxiety manifest itself as anger directed at those with whom we don’t agree will help no one. If ever there was a time when we needed to come together (metaphorically - please maintain social distancing) as a society in support of one another, now is that time. The Federal government also needs to heed the lessons learned from the Civil War and honor the input and rights of state and local governments regarding their rights to make decisions relating to the economy. When all of this is over it may take time to recover, but if we honor and respect one another in the face of fear, we will come out stronger as a nation.

Works cited:

(“AP-NORC poll: Most losing jobs to virus think they’ll return,” Idaho Press, April 25, 2020)

(“The Divided Union: The Story of the American Civil War,” Amazon Prime, May 2020)

(“Hundreds defy Idaho’s stay-at-home order at Capital protest,” Idaho Press, April 18, 2020)

(“Inslee faces growing resistance to stay-at-home orders,” Associated Press, April 23, 2020)

(“Why stay-at-home orders during pandemics are legal, constitutional,” Idaho Press, April 26, 2020)

(“Really Struggling,” Idaho Press, May 1, 2020)

(“Economists: No quick rebound from recession,” Associated Press, April 30, 2020)

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 17:45

1

It also shows how terrible the average American is at math...  apparently.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 17:52

5

Part of the problem in sorting through the data is the lack of clarity in that data. As a tortured example... Here, look at how much ‘safer’ you are to have COVID on a Sunday, say, than on a Wednesday!

Far fewer people die of COVID on Sunday... Let’s have the governors declare all days for the next six months as Sundays. We will save thousands. /s/

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 17:57

4

I think you guys should just get it out of your system. Just rope off Wyoming, invite everyone interested and have a no holds barred mini civil war.

It would be the healthy thing to do.

For Sweden > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 18:04

5

So we need to burn the South to beat the virus

For Sweden > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/12/2020 at 18:05

1

Hey that’s Sweden’ s plan make your own plan Anglos

Sovande > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 18:06

2

Lol. What? 

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 18:08

8

It was long, but worth reading. After a day of frustrating work I don’t have any critical thinking capacity left, but I largely agree with what you’re saying.

I know WHY people want to get back to work, I know WHY people want to get out of the house and party and go to bars and just return to normal. But I also understand WHY the fuck we shouldn’t, and I don’t hold it against those who want to go back to work to make money.

United as a people, you guys should be slinging shit at a federal government who has demonstrated pure incompetence throughout this whole pandemic. I don’t even care that they underestimated things initially - I did as well, and so did many other people and/or countries. There would’ve been nothing wrong with saying, “We underestimated this, but here are the concrete steps we’re going to take to ensure essentials have the PPD they need and that those who are out of work are covered for the long run, not just a $1200 slap in the face.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it now, and I’ll say it again in the future - we are too busy thinking that our fellow man is the enemy when we should all be laser-focused on the bureaucracies that are in place to do their fucking job, the job of public service.

Now, I’m not saying Canada’s approach is perfect - right now there is apparently widespread abuse of the CERB system where people are claiming when they shouldn’t or claiming more than they should, but the government seems to be taking a “shoot em all and ask questions later” approach, except instead of police brutality it’s a shot of cash injections for people who need it (and some who may not). I don’t think the government will recover those lost funds (fuck my taxes I guess) properly so I can’t say I’m thrilled with our approach, either, but at least the people in need are getting a somewhat regular cash flow to stay afloat.

All this economics shit is far beyond my simple understanding, but like I said, we need to be mad at those who claim to “run the country/state” and not fellow peasants who just want to get by.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 05/12/2020 at 18:13

1

BeaterGT > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 05/12/2020 at 18:14

0

Seems like the weekend lag to Monday spike trend has been obvious from the beginning. Having said that, the chart sucks.

wafflesnfalafel > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 18:15

2

So... the two sides are some quarantine vs not quarantine?

No expert here but I thought the point of restrictions was primarily not to overwhelm medical institutions, correct? We want to make sure those folks that catch it have a decent chance . Once we are to that point, (and we are already there in some rural areas,) we really need to push the progressive opening. Then reassess - open then reassess, open then reassess - which I agree is not done as well at a national level. Support and guidance , (like with ebola, etc ,) you bet - but the on the ground decision should be local. You might not like that decision, (if I were in Atlanta right now I wouldn’t be a very happy camper,) and regardless of what folks do it is guaranteed to be painful. So in summary it’s not going away just by completely hiding from it longer   AND the economy will still tank even if we never closed anything

And to keep this OPPO, I have a whole lot more cars I need to drive before I die of some F^$%ing virus....

Gone > For Sweden 05/12/2020 at 18:16

8

atfsgeoff > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 18:24

1

 Only this time, it won’t be geographic, but between Red and Blue states.

Oh it’ll be geographic alright. Rural vs urban.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BeaterGT 05/12/2020 at 18:25

1

Yeah. It makes me sad (lower staffing?) that the deaths over the weekend sometimes don’t get reported for a day or two.

My point really is that we’re in the dark on a lot of elements of this bug... so “the science” has got to be statistically driven at this moment. Because if anybody tells you it’s all figured out by now? They haven’t.

This ran the other day and is fascinating. And, scary as hell.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

Jim Spanfeller > wafflesnfalafel 05/12/2020 at 18:31

0

As I said, I’m not taking sides, and I really don’t know what side I even would fall on. My purpose in writing this wasn’t so much to propose a solution to the problem... Whatever the solution is, it may not be easy or fun, but we’ll probably just have to push through it. Mostly what I’m trying to do with this article is warn people of what can and has happened in a social climate like this, and how we can avoid those consequences.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 18:33

5

The absence of strong federal leadership in this particular situation is exacerbating an already shit show of a shit show. Montana is basically virus free! The moment we open up to tourism BOOM we will have lots of Montanan’s getting sick because we are isolated in the winter and only mate with californians in the summer.

Jim Spanfeller > atfsgeoff 05/12/2020 at 18:35

0

Still, red and blue are pretty spread out for the most part, so it’s not as geographical as just the North and South.

InFierority Complex > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/12/2020 at 18:36

1

But Cheyenne Frontier Days are coming up next month and all. You guys aren’t using Saskatchewan for anything, are you?

smobgirl > wafflesnfalafel 05/12/2020 at 18:38

1

In theory, we should have used the time we gained by closing everything down to make some process on a plan to reduce the impact going forward. Figuring out who gets sickest and why, what’s most efficient in reducing symptoms or speeding recovery. We did none of that. If we just reopen with none of that progress, we may as well have not done anything. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/12/2020 at 18:38

2

Wyoming has good skiing, lets rope off Nebraska or North Dakota. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 18:39

1

Well said, Austin, well said.

As a young healthy person with an immune system so compromised that it’s strength can barely be measured at all (most doctors don’t quite believe I can have a normal life but I do) and currently living in Georgia, the fiercest proponent of reopening, I can absolutely say that understanding mutual respect are paramount. This emotional strain is in fact similar to the Civil War, where a fundamental disagreement that goes straight past reason to appear almost as a personal attack has got this country behaving like a pack of fools.

I really am worried about the rift between people desperate to support their families and others who directly relate their position to being ageist and negli gent. This division along party lines is also worrying with the potential repre cussions of not enforcing Federal mandates as a parallel to the nullification of the Civil War.

This national emotional deterioration has been harmful to the unity of the country, but this position is recoverable.

BeaterGT > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 05/12/2020 at 18:40

1

Good read, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, there will still be people with the NIMBY mentality or “that’s New York’s problem” fighting the facts. Or they think God will save them and attending church with their fellow covidiots is the only way to beat this.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > InFierority Complex 05/12/2020 at 18:48

3

We use it to keep Manitoba and Alberta apart

Jim Spanfeller > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 05/12/2020 at 18:57

0

Thanks. A major reason why I decided to post this here is to get this message out into the world, and I’m hoping it will spread to at least a few people. I think it really is important for us as a country to become more united against this, and name-calling and such has no place in that.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 19:08

1

This well balanced apolitical take absolutely should be posted here - and everywhere else for that matter.

The comparison would be great except people who have no interest in history might not have the context that a very small amount of southerners even owned slaves, but just depended on the system to survive economically.

One other comparison I thought of was the American homefront during WWII. If you look at the predicament of people who didn’t support the war, they were railroaded into being anti American. For instance, the Zoot Suit riots we re literally about rebellious youths wearing suits that used too much cloth - and the violent reaction of some soldiers to “anti American” behavior of wasting war materials. Not everyone had victory gardens and the war threatened to consume the country itself, much like this loc kdow n.

Think of it like every good or service not produced and every social event cancelled is entire fortunes, livelihoods, and actual lives being given for the war effort; or, in our case, everything given up for the war against COVID. Staying home, that’s our victory garden, but the war consuming our civilian economy doesn’t actually employ the population, hence the growing emotional strain from a stagnant existence.

Struggling gig workers, small business owners, and everyone else are like the Zoot Suiters (including racial stigma in some cases). They are caught in a struggle between their identity and livelihoods and there is no real answer. When someone throws a punch, lite r al or metaphorical, they have to guard  themselves from the edge of their economic precipice. 

XJDano > atfsgeoff 05/12/2020 at 19:13

0

Example: Missouri

The blue counties enclose  Kansas City, Columbia, St. Louis City & county. 

In other states you can point out large cities. Austin? , Dallas? , Topeka, Des Moines, Chicago, Springfield IL, Indianapolis possibly.

I choose states I’m familiar with, or cities I know the general geographic area.

XJDano > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 19:14

0

Where are the Lego birds? This is a wall of text with no tl; dr.

I did read it. Did you write all this yourself? 

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 19:16

3

For the civil war the North and South had very polarized populations. There may have been varying levels of enthusiasm internal to each side but there were few on either side that were enthusiastically sympathetic to the other sides position. Contrast that to today. You have significant populations in each state that are enthusiastic about each side. It’s a similar problem with highly divided ideology with plenty of enthusiasm on each side but in a completely different environment.

What I find amazing is how people can’t see how extraordinary this time is. It doesn’t matter who was in charge this was a unique event that you couldn’t be fully prepared for. The data we have is still insufficient to make the best decisions and is likely to continue that way for a while. And as a result we are going to have to live through some less than optimal leadership decisions. As the data gets better and is better understood we will get some clarity and the decisions will get better and we will adapt better. Until then love your neighbor, at a  safe distance of course, and do your best to make good personal decisions.  

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > gin-san - shitpost specialist 05/12/2020 at 19:20

0

If I was not a moral man, I’d be CERBing my way into a new Jeep.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > atfsgeoff 05/12/2020 at 19:23

1

A Civil War II based on those sides would be...interesting.

Rural folks have the food and the guns- per-capita. City folks have the ports, the money, and the industrial capacity . Which probably means the cities lose badly for the first while, then win in the end as logistics tells. Though that assumes the military stayed out of it, which of course it wouldn’t.

Either way, r esult: one God-awful mess. One thing’s for certain though: those little blue dots scattered across the midwest’d be ch an ging their alignment pretty fast, one way or the other .

Sovande > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 19:30

1

The comparison is ridiculous, however. This virus has absolutely no relation to the Civil War and the notion that it does is nonsensical. There is no “great divide” in the nation over the closures. There have been a few limited protests which are newsworthy not in the message, but how the message is presented: it’s armed middle aged white guys yelling in support of the man who instituted the shutdown . These are not people to fear. These idiots can’t get a cup of coffee without a long gun strapped across their camo -clad chests.

The Civil War did not start one Tuesday after a month and a half of limited freedoms in response to a pandemic. It was years of institutional and financial racism and barbarism which finally led to an armed conflict. This wasn’t masks and losing your job at the lumber yard, this was whips and chains and generations of people ripped from their homelands in order to feed the cotton machine. Comparing that to this current situation is insulting.

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 19:54

1

I think every US citizen should be made to read and take a quiz on what you wrote so that they confirm actually understand it.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/12/2020 at 19:57

1

At the end of  march the number of out of sta te plates fleeing to their vacation homes in my area did not give comfort.

fintail > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 20:25

1

It’ll be interesting to see if this is yet another time when the American “right” (sarcastic quotes) is on the wrong side of history.  They have been there a lot in the past few generations.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 21:16

0

I fail to see how the US could begin a meaningful civil war without at least two mostly coherent opposing sides. From my non US perspective...it appears to be incoherence all around. You don’t generally get civil wars out of that sort of flipflappery.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/12/2020 at 21:35

0

We are already seeing tourists this week and Glacier Park is closed. I am not amused.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > For Sweden 05/12/2020 at 21:58

0

Starred for the fact that Sweden’s within shouting distance of being the Angles’ homeland .

Derpwagon > Jim Spanfeller 05/12/2020 at 22:27

3

The number of comments in here who clearly didn’t read the post and instead jumped right into exactly what you mentioned... Not surprising, just disappointing.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/12/2020 at 23:16

1

I don’t get the attitude of who would want to go on a vacation . My cousin booked tickets to his sister in Florida as theyre cheap as hell and her response was “Are you a moron?” Do you get summer residents up the re ?

Jim Spanfeller > Derpwagon 05/12/2020 at 23:21

1

I kinda expected it, tbh. But I wrote the post for those who will actually read it and pay attention to it, so thank you for doing that.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/12/2020 at 23:24

0

Our town tripled in population in the summer. Our whole economy is centered around tourism and recreation. This year is sucking pretty hard for the service industry.

Jim Spanfeller > Sovande 05/12/2020 at 23:29

0

... I get the feeling you didn’t actually read my post. Or if you did, you ignored what I said and jumped down here to say that this can’t be true because it’s shocking. Believe me, I’m not taking this situation lightly. The aftermath of this situation might not be exactly the same as what happened in the Civil War, but there ARE a lot of parallels. And we can always learn a thing or two from history.

Jim Spanfeller > XJDano 05/12/2020 at 23:32

0

It was actually my mom’s idea, but I thought it was a brilliant idea and wrote and researched most of this myself.

And don’t worry, there are more birds to come. I already have three more planned.

Sovande > Jim Spanfeller 05/13/2020 at 01:36

0

I read the whole post. There are exactly zero comparisons between these two events. Trying to draw a comparison is not shocking, it's absurd. 

Jim Spanfeller > Sovande 05/13/2020 at 02:26

1

I literally went into detail explaining several parallels between these two events. I never said these events were exactly the same, but the mindset of both sides of the argument in both events is very similar, which is one of the points I’m  trying to make. The other, and more important point of the post is that we need to stop pointing fingers/calling names/generally directing anger at the side we don’t agree with. Unity is important right now. If you still don’t get my Civil War comparison, then fine. It’s mostly that last bit that’s important, and the reason why I posted this. This is a rare example of me trying to create a genuinely helpful, meaningful post.

Jim Spanfeller > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 05/13/2020 at 02:31

1

I’m glad at least you and a couple others think so... a lot of the people commenting here don’t seem to be getting what I’m trying to say.

MrSnrub > Jim Spanfeller 05/13/2020 at 03:21

0

The US has been sick for a long time, coronavirus has just supercharged all the symptoms. The real issue is the bipartisan neoliberal (market-supremacist) regime of the last 40 years which has overseen soaring, destabilizing inequality as well as the hollowing out and corporate capture of the public institutions that are the only thing capable of handling a crisis of this magnitude. As a result we are faced with the false choice of shutting down the economy and letting people go hungry or opening things back up and letting people die.

In more sane societies that do not have an irrational aversion to spending money on the non-rich, avenues of action exist that do not require the immiseration or death of millions of people:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/24/united-states-europe-coronavirus-pandemic-shutdown-unemployment/

There is definitely reason to fear for civil unrest, but I don’t think it’s going to be red state army vs. blue state army. Outright secession is not very likely in my opinion, but a de facto balkanization where states ignore an increasingly ineffective federal government seems like a good bet. The Western States Pact may be an early preview of where things are heading.

If a second civil war occurs it will more likely be a sustained domestic insurgency that worsens over time, maybe something like Iraq in the late 2000s. Car bombings and increasing violence, not committed by one coherent entity but a variety of disaffected groups. A scenario that’s not hard to imagine would be terrorist campaigns against local governments in areas that are more hesitant to re-open.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/15/2020 at 00:23

0

summer could be interesting

https://www.thedrive.com/news/33452/rv-rentals-up-650-percent-as-americans-plan-socially-distant-summer-vacations