Hot Take: Pre-Bangle BMW's look old and boring (with evidence!)

"marshknute" (marshknute) 05/01/2020 at 13:54 • Filed to: None

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Nobody likes the pre-Bangle BMW’s . The general public thinks they look old and boring, as evidence by all my friends/family who disappointingly replied, “Oh, you bought a really old BMW???” when I proudly showed them my E46 (which was only one generation old at the time).

But what about enthusiasts? Well, I have a car photography page on IG (@knutemotorsport) with over 61K followers, and I posted several polls on my story yesterday: E38 vs E66, E39 vs E60, and E46 vs E92. Result?

E38 (56%) E66 (44%)

E39 (28%) E60 (72%)

E46 (24%) E92 (76%)

I bet those results surprise you. Partly because the beloved E39/E46 got spanked, but mostly because the Bangle Butt 7-Series...yes,   that 7-Series...only barely lost to the E38. You clowns keep telling me that the E38 is supposed to be distilled essence of Jesus, while the E66 is the bastard spawn of Satan. And yet, not only was it a near-tie, but the E66 originally held the lead for the first 6 hours after the poll went live.

Now, here’s the interesting part: my followers overwhelmingly fall in the 18-34 age group. Aka, younger Millennials and GenZ...people who grew up during/after Chris Bangle’s time at BMW. Thus, they had no preconceptions of “what a BMW should look like,” and just accepted Bangle’s flame surfacing as normal and contemporary.

And whether or not you think the pre-Bangle designs are handsome, you simply can’t deny just how old they look. The E60 looks 20 years younger than the E39. It looks two generations newer, not just one. It could even be confused for a brand new car to the untrained eye.

So what’s the deal? Why do old enthusiasts like the look of old BMW’s? Is it because everything in the 90's looked boring and BMW’s were the least boring? I just don’t get it. I’d take an “overstyled” i8 over the painfully dull E39 M5 any day.  

For Sweden > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:04

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but the bangle is thicc

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:06

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Macular degeneration?

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:06

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ClassicDatsunDebate > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:08

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What’s the deal? GET OFF MY LAWN!

That’s the deal.

SmugAardvark > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:10

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Respectfully, I disagree.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > SmugAardvark 05/01/2020 at 14:12

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Yes, but that just proves his point. Most people would see them and think O L D   is B A D instead of, “ oh cool old BMW is better BMW” if they even recognize them as a BMW at all. 

412GTI > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:17

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I like both, guess it depends on any given day which I prefer. You are very correct in saying it’s like they skipped two generations for both the 5 & 7 series. 

ClassicDatsunDebate > For Sweden 05/01/2020 at 14:26

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dat asss

marshknute > For Sweden 05/01/2020 at 14:27

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Fun fact: Chris Bangle was also on the animation team for The Incredibles...probably

Snuze: Needs another Swede > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:30

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painfully dull E39 M5

This is objectively wrong.

Honestly, though, I think it’s an age thing. We all tend to like what we know; it’s why boomers keep buying up muscle cars from the 60's and 70's. It’s why Radwood happens as all the GenXers who are into cars and have money and stability are buying and restoring late 70's to early 90's cars. Your demographic came of age during the era of the “Bangle Butt” so it’s what they identify with. If corona doesn’t kill us all and the economy isn’t hopelessly forever tanked, in 20 years your IG followers will be dropping $100k at Mecums or Barrett Jackson for minty E66s so they can take them to classic car shows and people can look and reminisce   about the BMW iDrive the same way my dad talks about 8 tracks.

marshknute > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 05/01/2020 at 14:31

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I think the problem is that   handsome old just looks old, whereas outrageous old remains cool despite its age. Bold > boring.

Case in point: today’s youth still gawk over a Countach, whereas they’ve never heard of the Ferrari Daytona.

DasWauto > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 14:56

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I fall squarely within the demographic of your audience and I like many of BMW’s designs from Bangle’s era (my 128i being one of them) and those before and after. I think any preference is largely a product of whatever was current at the time one starts getting into cars. For me, that’s e46 3-series and e39 5-series, and my affection for those remains (the e46 M3 is the best looking M3 of all time), but I’d guess many people my age got into cars a bit later and would consequently  prefer Bangle era designs.

I also don’t think these results indicate that this age group thinks pre-bangle designs look old and boring, it just indicates a preference. I really like several Bangle designs better than their predecessors (Z4, non-m 3-series, e63 6-series), but I don’t think those older designs are old and boring. I’d happily own a pre-e90, M or non-M 3-series (had a e30 325i before, would like an e46 330i zhp pls, or an e36/e46 M3), e38 (740i), e39 (m5), a Z3 (clownshoe pls) or an e24 M6, e28, 3.0CS.....

Ok, fine, I just like BMWs, my opinion is probably invalid.

marshknute > DasWauto 05/01/2020 at 15:08

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I think the E46 is unquestionably the best-looking pre-Bangle M3, but it wouldn’t even make my top 100 list of best-looking cars. The E92 is definitely my favorite.

I think my problem is that handsome old just end up looking old, whereas outlandish old still looks cool despite its age. Everyone remembers the Countach, but most people have forgotten about the Ferrari Daytona.

DasWauto > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 15:21

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Gonna have to disagree on that one. I think the e46 is a timeless design and that appreciation will remain for a long time to come. Don’t get me wrong, I love the e9x M3 as well but I think many people prefer the understated nature of many of the pre-bangle cars, myself included, especially when you consider some of the the cars that have come since. Pre-bangle, you’d only know an M car if you knew to look for the wider arches, wheels and sl ightly more aggressive bumper treatments, on top of the M badge of course. That not to say I necessarily dislike the bolder designs that have come since ( M2 comp por favor ), but the subtl e ty of pre-bangle cars just resonates with me.

On a related note, I think the age of social media (to which I am admittedly largely averse) has led people to prefer more outwardly bold designs because people seek more attention these days . I do think this will have some welcome effects - I foresee that colours will become more popular again in car design/s ales and hopefully bring us out of the dull era of mostly greyscale exterior colour choices and all-black interiors.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 15:50

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People like the classic BMWs because they’re high quality but reserved . You can have a nice car without screaming it to the world. After the E46 they started getting really flashy and started putting appearance before substance. Most new BMWs are bought for the logo and not for any appreciation of a fine car.

marshknute > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 05/01/2020 at 16:15

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“... because they’re high quality...”

This...is just objectively false.

I’ve owned one. My dad has owned two. The build quality is... to be charitable...abysmal. Old BMW’s are the rolling embodiment of Arthritis.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 16:27

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I’ve got an E39 with 270k miles and it’s far from arthritic. And you can’t compare a 20yo car to a newer model as they are today. Of course the older one is gonna seem crappier because it’s twice as old. You have to compare the cars as they were new, and as feats of design and engineering the 90's models are more impressive. I drove a newish X3 recently and it frankly doesn’t feel any more “special” than your average mass-market car despite the price premium. Drive an E39 and an XV20 Camry back-to-back and tell me if they fell the same.

I agree that the Bangle cars have aged well, and the E60 looks fantastic, but all the reviews peg it as missing that X factor that made the model it  replaced so legendary as an enthusiasts car.

feather-throttle-not-hair > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 16:45

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I definitely prefer some of the older looks, personally I think the E36 generation was the best looking 3-series ever. It’ s slightly less interesting to look at, but it’ s from the era before everything got bulbous. S omething about it is so fundamentally right . The E39 is good, but again, i think I maybe prefer the E34 generation.

When I was out driving yesterday, a guy pulled up next to me in a 4-door E36 M3. We both rolled our windows down and had a brief BMW chat (I was driving the M2. ) We had exactly the span of a red light to shoot the shit, but man. I sure did miss car conversations.

Anyway, the E36 is so perfectly proportioned with just enough rear seat room while maintaining a compact body. I think part of it was that I was also very aware of how much cars cost back in the day. The E36 M3 was about $ 36,000 when it debuted but by the time the E46 M3 had come out, they were much much more expensive cars, generally above $ 50K . Better performing, yes, but it’d lost a little bit of the everyman appeal to me.

gmctavish needs more space > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 17:11

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Old and boring doesn’t equal bad, and new and exciting doesn’t equal good.

I’ll take old and boring over new and exciting, it tends to age better.

marshknute > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 05/01/2020 at 17:23

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C’mon, you have to take reliability into account. A Lexus LS400 was reliable when it was new and is still bulletproof 30 years later. It’s a better car than the S-Class or 7-Series from that era . Like I said, we’ve owned several old BMW’s, and they just aren’t quality products, and they aren’t built to last (unless you’re willing to invest an unreasonable amount of time and money into them).    

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > marshknute 05/01/2020 at 17:25

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I recall someone posti ng a rant here VERY  recently about how bad the built quality on their Lexus is.