My Love Affair With a Crown Firecoach

"Hooker" (Hooker) 05/01/2020 at 09:30 • Filed to: None

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Video link added of cold start and first 3 gears.

My parents bought a 1966 Crown Firecoach approximately 10 years ago. My father had always wanted one. It mostly sat (not legal to drive) in the garage for the majority of that time. We (mostly my dad) started tinkering with it. My brother, father and I started replacing hoses, lines, belts etc. Changed out filters and such. But again, it came in small, short bursts.

This last year, we got it registered in NC and road safe. New tires, rims, seats, etc. Finally, it was time to get her out on the open road and see what she could do. These trucks tended to be overbuilt and over engineered from the factory. That mostly meant that even after 50 plus years of service (and, in large part, sitting unused) it still ran and drove like a champ. Tight, smooth, stable. This, compared to our other fire truck (1965 Seagrave) that has necessitated many modifications over the years to force it to have better road manners. That is, until the Crown started eating fuel filters at an alarming rate (15-20 miles of driving). The fuel tank was rotted and needed to be replaced/relocated. More on that when we get the parts to fix it.

This image captured while in 3rd gear, going up a slight incline, struggling to max 20 mph. Fuel filter had clogged. Ended up limping home at 10 mph in 2nd gear for miles. Just glad it made it home. It was an incredibly fun night.

But, before the fuel tank started to self destruct, we did get a few drives in. What you have to understand about this vehicle is that it is a 4 speed (with overdrive). It has a clutch, 4 forward gears and an overdrive. Reverse too. Good, right? The Cummins inline 6 diesel in this thing is a torque monster. Even at low RPM. Getting into first gear is effortless and requires zero throttle input to achieve. Getting into first or reverse requires the clutch. For every other gear, the clutch is useless in achieving a gear and can actually hamper your efforts. So, rev matching/road speed matching is the only way. This was all new to me.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

In a modern manual transmission, there are clearly defined gates for your gears. The clutch is useful. The shifts can be made accurately and smoothly with a short period of getting to know one another. The Crown 1-2 shift was relatively easy to catch. Slowly lift off the throttle will allow you to disengage gear 1 and while the RPM’s are coming down, you can catch 2. 3rd gear was relatively elusive. It should be up, over to the right and up. But there is no hard (or even soft) gate to let you know you’ve found 3rd. It takes some finesse, and a few curse words from both you and the people behind you on the road you’re inevitably holding up. 4th and overdrive are easy peasy.

I had never driven a vehicle that was both cantankerous, fun and terrifying all at the same time. My parents have a long 1000 ft long driveway. That’s important information. I didn’t just jump in this truck one day and take it out on the road. I spent multiple weekends shifting through and catching (or more often failing to catch) the gears. Then reversing down the driveway and starting the process all over. I eventually got confident and said the obligatory “fuck it” and took it out on the open road. I got it around a 10 ish mile block all by myself, no stalling, no issues. I missed a few gears but was able to recover. I had never felt so good. I needed more. More will come when the fuel system issues are resolved. Soon.

So, what do you do when you can’t drive a fire truck? You find out if it can pump water. That is, after all, a primary and semi-important function of a fire truck, right? Right. Remember the part about it sitting for many years? Everything had to be tested. The first, how do we get this truck into pump mode? Every truck has a similar system but this was clearly different than our Seagrave. My father and I tried taking the truck out of “road” and placing it in “pump” with a lever on the pump panel. This required the transmission be in neutral and using the clutch. We felt and heard something engage. Surely it wouldn’t be that easy to engage the pump? My father told me to place it into gear. That failed miserably with a shudder and a stall. We figured out that, in fact, all we needed was the first step. With water in the leaking tank, we set out to build pressure. That we did. The pump was spinning and we knew it was functional enough to move water.

But the tank leaked. Quite a bit. So, last night, my father and I placed a metal plate at the bottom of the tank to replace the sump system that was part of the “tank to pump” system. Tank to pump just dumps water from the water tank to the pump. Most of the bolts/washers and a metric ton of silicone installed without much fanfare. However, there was one that was surrounded by the frame, rear leaf spring suspension, and some piping for the pump. It made it near impossible to get this nut onto the stud. There was lots of dropping, slipping, cursing and attempts at any other angle that may function better. Finally, I was able to secure the nut and fasten it down. I needed 3 hands and someone to hold a light. I had neither. But, the plate was in place. We had won this battle.

I have never been much of a grease-monkey. But these last few months and years of consistent repairs and upgrades have strengthened an already strong relationship with my family and forged a man and machine bond that I had never experienced. And now, it’s all I can think about. We still need to address some valves, drafting capability (my father replaced the primer so that is a good start) and other little things. But we know it holds water and pumps it out.

Me, after spending a couple hours under the truck. Not too bad. The back of the shirt is ruined. I don’t care.

To be honest, my parents purchased this truck and have made all the cash investments into it thus far. However, due to my neophyte wrenching, elbow grease and drive time, I will forever claim it to be just as much mine as theirs. I feel connected to it in a way that I have never felt with any other vehicle. I’ve both owned and driven many types of vehicles that most would consider more exciting than an old fire truck.. But there is something personal about this one. Something special. The family bond, the learning curve, failures and triumphs over cantankerous components. There is a thirst for more. More wrenching, more drive time, more water throwing. More.

As more happens, I will detail it here on Oppo. Thank you for reading. There are likely details that are missing but at 1217 words, I think you get the idea.

Just Jeepin' > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 17:48

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That’s awesome! Convertible trucks are, generally speaking, pretty spectacular; adding the inherent coolness of a fire truck to that equation makes for a fantastic vehicle.

Nice work, hope to hear more about it.

Hooker > Just Jeepin' 04/30/2020 at 17:52

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Interestingly enough, this one is just open to the elements. Full time. My father has tossed around the idea of a removable soft top. We will see. If that happens, you’ll definitely hear of it. 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 17:56

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Wow, epic! Great write-up...definitely need more updates on this thing! :D

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 17:58

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Thank you for this fascinating tale. Old firetrucks are something that only a few dedicated individuals can afford to keep, both financially and from a skills/time perspective (including the mandatory fits and starts of wrenching), so I am always glad to hear of someone daring enough.

My neighbor has an old Ford COE Firetruck but I’ve never seen it leave his property and it has only changed positions a few times. I guess the surrounding streetscape isn’t conducive to actually driving it.

Oh, and you might like this:

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/morning-oppo-dioccusa-1840950664

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/30/2020 at 18:01

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The Ford mentioned. I had to go grab a screenshot.

PatBateman > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 18:32

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Make sure ownership conveys in their will. :)

Also, now you have me wanting to go shop for a party pumper (fire engine converted for tailgating).

My bird IS the word > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 18:36

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You had me at convertible firetruck. It needs no further explanation

NKato > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 18:40

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Once you get the fuel tank and filter replaced, VIDEOTAPE THE DRIVE, DAMN IT! SHARE IT WITH THE WOOOOOORRRRRRLLLLLD.

NKato > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 18:41

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Why not just weld up a hardtop like a Miata’s? Snap-on/off with adjustable clamps. You could even design it to be in pieces: removable frame carrier, then the left/right halves, so you could conceivably have half the hardtop clamped in, and still get the breeze.

Hooker > NKato 04/30/2020 at 18:59

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The general consensus among the family is to retain this truck as close to original condition as possible. That fact is a constant struggle. The theory is that it must look like it never had a top once it is removed to retain the original silhouette. 

Hooker > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/30/2020 at 19:01

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You couldn’t be more right. I have never been hard core into the wrenching aspect. But, the more I do, the more I want to do. That Ford seems to be in quite good shape! We are a small group nationwide trying to save them. Can’t save them all but we are doing our part. 

Hooker > NKato 04/30/2020 at 19:03

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I am reasonably certain my brother has a video of the failed drive with the clogged fuel filter. I believe it’s just the first few shifts. I’ll see if I can get it! I see the embedded linked video of it driving got eaten by Nibbles. 

Hooker > PatBateman 04/30/2020 at 19:04

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Oh buddy, I can introduce you to people who have full bars on their fully functioning fire engines. It’s doable. And a must. 

Hooker > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 04/30/2020 at 19:04

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Thank you! Hadn’t written anything in a while. Hope it wasn’t too haphazard! 

Hooker > My bird IS the word 04/30/2020 at 19:05

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We are working on “convertible!” It currently was not built with a roof but we are considering a fully removable one. 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:05

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Nope! Looking forward to more! :D

My bird IS the word > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:08

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I always wondered what the deal was with that. Personally I wouldn’tbother with the roof

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:11

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That's awesome! Floating gears is really weird at first and I've only done it on a pickup when I lost the clutch. I can't imagine doing it on something this big.

Hooker > My bird IS the word 04/30/2020 at 19:17

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Personally, I agree. But, I am just one of a few decision makers in a close knit, semi nuts family.

Hooker > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 04/30/2020 at 19:17

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Thank you! It may come slow, but I will keep updates coming as I get them!

Hooker > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/30/2020 at 19:20

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It has been a process. That’s for sure. But, once you get it, man, that feeling! 

jimz > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:20

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For every other gear, the clutch is useless in achieving a gear a nd can actually hamper your efforts. So, rev matching/road speed matching is the only way. This was all new to me.

unsynchronized transmission. floating or double-clutching are your only hopes.

PatBateman > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:26

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I’m already shopping. I have a friend down the street that owns a pumper (he’s a volunteer firefighter, I’m a former volunteer firefighter). It’s given me the bug.

I also want a small hose that sprays beer from a keg.  

PatBateman > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:36

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OH MY GOD I FOUND A FIRE TRUCK GOLF CART DO YOU KNOW HOW DRUNK I CAN MAKE PEOPLE WITH THIS AFTER A FEW MINOR ALCOHOL-INVOLVED MODIFICATIONS WHILE DRIVING AROUND ON THE BEACH?!?!

Hooker > PatBateman 04/30/2020 at 19:36

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It’s weird, I was not always as into it as I am now. And I think that it has to do primarily with wanting and having the ability to actually work on it and drive it. What are you looking for? Specific OEM?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:36

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Yes, this guy has excellent taste but I can’t figure out how he keeps his stuff so nice. Doesn’t do enough driving it though.

I haven't come across much to wrench on besides oil changes so far, at least until my power steering went out this morning. I haven't made any headway so far as it is intermittent somehow.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:38

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There’s an entire class of manual transmissions in rally cars and such, called something like “dog leg,” or “ratchet,” or some other clever thing, where the clutch is only used to get going in first or reverse and you rev match for all the rest of the shifting.

Also, very cool post, and lucky you for having this fun project to work on with Pops. Some of us are not so lucky for reasons.

Hooker > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/30/2020 at 19:38

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These things are meant to be driven. Pumped. If there is anything I have learned, it’s that the small things get you the bug. They give you the confidence to start taking on larger projects.  Then, somehow, you find yourself becoming David Tracy.

Hooker > jimz 04/30/2020 at 19:39

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I see this now. But damn was it frustrating as a newbie. But damn, I kind of love the struggle?

Hooker > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/30/2020 at 19:41

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Man. I feel so fortunate. It’s definitely one of those moments where you cherish it because, reasons happen. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:42

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You are enjoying it. That’s what matters.

Hooker > NKato 04/30/2020 at 19:44

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I added an impromptu video from fuel filter failure drive. I couldn’t embed the youtube video itself but there is a link. Let me know what you think!

PatBateman > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:46

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My wife will someday kill me for this, you know.

Probably an older truck.  A Lafrance, or a Pierce probably.  Simple, a head turner, and something that doesn’t involve a computer to fix (cheap).

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 19:54

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Let’s hope the last stage never kicks in. The guy mentioned has too many cars to drive and as a result some of his most interesting stuff hasn’t moved in months. The year of dust on the fintail Mercedes out front especially annoys me since he told me it works.

I’ ve been trying to improve my repair skills on basically everything. I mean I can change out a dimmer switch and repair a toilet, which is more than most can say. It really puts it into perspective when the layman says you should be a plumber because you repaired a float chain with a paperclip in his toilet (don’t ask). 

Hooker > PatBateman 04/30/2020 at 19:59

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She will understand. Give her one ride in it and I promise she will be happy! Or buy her something pretty to say you’re sorry.

So, Ward or American LaFrance? Pierce only if you want to spend lots of money and get a divorce. Computer? Depends on the engine you find. Mechanical drive is better. Avoid proprietary (and now unsupported) systems. Pierce is bad. Early 80's at latest. I would stay more 60's and 70's. But there’s more research that needs to be done that I can’t provide for you. Sadly. Still learning. 

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/30/2020 at 20:00

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You’re looking for Dog Box. 

functionoverfashion > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 20:02

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This is awesome, keep it coming. When people hear I have “an old fire truck” this is what they are picturing. Mine is more practical but way, WAY less interesting.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > PatBateman 04/30/2020 at 20:05

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There’s a pizza shop near me that has  an old fire truck converted with a brick pizza oven in back. I see it all summer long. 

Hooker > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/30/2020 at 20:08

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Dude. Take it to the next level. Ask this guy if YOU can take his stuff out for a walk around the block once in a while. Maybe help wrench on it! Also, uh, ever replace a toilet entirely? I’m no plumber but I did that. Twice. 

Hooker > PatBateman 04/30/2020 at 20:10

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Rare does not equal desirable. Though, uh, maybe? But that price? Shit. No. 

Hooker > functionoverfashion 04/30/2020 at 20:12

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I will need pictures. What do you have? 

functionoverfashion > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 20:18

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Former brush fire truck, 1961 Ford F100

Hooker > functionoverfashion 04/30/2020 at 20:26

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Yes. Yes. Yes. And no, it’s not less interesting. It’s perfect! Those fenders though. Love. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2020 at 20:27

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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2020 at 20:28

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What is Red Puck Down  about? Are you a hockey player?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 20:35

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Nope, but it sounds pretty crappy (sorry). I just used it as a point that some people are completely mechanically inept. Thanks though.

functionoverfashion > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 20:38

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I mean, it’s objectively less interesting than an actual, real fire truck. But thanks, I love it.

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/30/2020 at 20:51

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Haha . I’m one of those psychopaths that can knee-down riding a motorcycle, so I have scraped knee pucks. Doubles as a fun word play on Black Hawk Down.

NKato > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 20:56

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You can easily achieve that by creating simple little weld-on bits that serve as anchor points for the roof frame. Snap in, turn a screw on them all, and presto, it’s solidly in place. Uses friction to stay in place. Lemme do a quick sketch...

Hooker > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/30/2020 at 21:03

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You’re very punny! Honestly not as bad as I had thought it would be. Haha. I used to think I was mechanically inept. I believed it. But, little things are turning into bigger things. It’s a process. 

NKato > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 21:03

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Three mounting points. You could weld in a 1x1-inch slot-box onto the firetruck to support this. A round T-bolt slots into them, which is turned by a screw-knob with a universal joint so that it can be adjusted through a cutout in the frame. Rubber bushings are recommended, too.

These things would be easy to grind off when you want to get rid of the mounting points.

On the frame, you clamp the Sheetmetal hardtop. Done.

EDIT: Biggest problem with this is preventing the wind from ripping the hardtop off. You can consider adding two more horizontal bars that clamp onto mounting points on the windshield frame.

Hooker > functionoverfashion 04/30/2020 at 21:04

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Clears brush for other trucks. Goes where big things can’t to control fire. Looks badass. Sounds like it checks all the boxes of “real fire truck” to me! 

Hooker > NKato 04/30/2020 at 21:05

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Oh, please sketch! Quick release and overall look are super important. Well, to me. 

NKato > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 21:07

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Already done... :)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2020 at 21:10

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Got it.

Hooker > NKato 04/30/2020 at 21:12

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I’m going to show this to my dad. Thank you! 

NKato > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 21:15

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You’re welcome. You have options of a one-pole roof design, two pole, or three-pole, depending on how much reinforcement you want to ensure that the roof won’t rip itself off.

Personally , I would go for a 5-point mounting setup. 2 floor mounts, 3 windshield mounts. At 50+ mph, you don’t wanna end up like this guy: https://i.imgur.com/MWlUslC.mp4

Jagvar > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 21:24

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Mr. Hooker! I love how passionate you are, and this is great storytelling about a legitimately cool truck. Keep it coming!

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Hooker 04/30/2020 at 21:33

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Seriously cool. I can’t wait to read more about this project.

One of these days I’d love to find a Crown school bus like I grew up with. My neighborhood got the best and newest one in the fleet - long body, dual rear axles and an automatic (although I’d prefer a manual). The sound of that DD 6-71 is imbedded in my brain, and it makes me smile every time I hear it .

I’m also old enough to remember when a bunch of cities in SoCal had Crown Firecoaches. I still like to tune into early episodes of Emergency! to see the one they used on that program (and other ones in supporting roles). It’s just such a classic look, and I can’t get enough.

Hooker > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 04/30/2020 at 22:28

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I grew up on Emergency re-runs! I have amazing parents, obviously! The buses were a high point for me too. 

Hooker > Jagvar 04/30/2020 at 22:29

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You still log in? Is this real life? Thank you! I will keep the posts coming as things progress!

Hooker > NKato 05/01/2020 at 09:25

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That was painful to watch! 

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 09:38

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That truck is Richard Scarry approved.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/01/2020 at 09:49

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Top tier stock cars use the same thing I believe .

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 09:51

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This is so cool!

Also, more details on the Cummins please (I work at Cummins)

Hooker > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/01/2020 at 09:51

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I had completely forgotten about his series of books! Look at this one too, seems he had a soft spot for Crown’s as well! Top left with a tiller! 

vondon302 > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 10:02

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Great post!!

Hooker > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 05/01/2020 at 10:20

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Thank you! I’ll have to verify with my dad but I believe it to be an NTC-290. It sounds incredible.

Hooker > vondon302 05/01/2020 at 10:20

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Thank you!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 10:30

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Awesome!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 10:43

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This is awesome, thank you for sharing, and thanks for the great write-up. This sounds like an awesome family project, very cool!

My dad has a friend who has multiple fire trucks (3, I think?). I want to get pictures of his collection to share on here, and will when the Corona stuff settles down. 

Hooker > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 05/01/2020 at 10:55

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I will also try to get more video of it running/driving. I have a few that I need to upload to Youtube. 

Hooker > Snuze: Needs another Swede 05/01/2020 at 11:00

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Thank you! It has been a great project for sure. It had a rough, semi-crashy start but that is a story for another day. :)

Where do you hail from? Anyone who has multiple fire trucks may already be part of my family....Haha. Pics are always welcomed when all this corona is over! 

NKato > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 14:13

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What’s the verdict from the dad?

Hooker > NKato 05/01/2020 at 14:23

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Verdict pending. This will be something he stares at and thinks about for months. Haha. But, as soon as something happens, I will let you know!

bubblestheturtle > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 17:20

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I can’t blame you. Good thing I don’t live nearby, or I would be bugging you about ‘helping’ like a 3yr old.

NKato > Hooker 05/01/2020 at 17:30

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One of the best approaches here is to use mockup materials. Some scrap pvc tubes will help in figuring out how it'll all come together before you commit to actual metal work. 

Hooker > NKato 05/02/2020 at 00:32

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But, why mock up with plastic when you can use the real deal? In all honesty, once my dad settles on a design, it’s fully cooked. He mocks up, but then just pushes through to a final design. I’ve never seen anyone like him.

Hooker > bubblestheturtle 05/02/2020 at 00:37

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Dude, how far away are you? Help is always appreciated. And 3 year olds are fun! 

NKato > Hooker 05/02/2020 at 01:18

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 Good point. Let me know how it goes. 

bubblestheturtle > Hooker 05/03/2020 at 22:29

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LOL, many states.

Hooker > bubblestheturtle 05/04/2020 at 09:50

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Well, that’s unpleasant. :(

Jagvar > Hooker 05/06/2020 at 11:27

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Once in a blue moon! Mostly I logged in because I knew you had written this article. ;-)

Hooker > Jagvar 05/06/2020 at 12:39

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Of course, I feel honored. A Jagvar sighting is always a pleasure! :)