Manual Volkswagens Seem to be Cheap

"Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available" (whoistheleader2) 04/22/2020 at 12:14 • Filed to: Craigslist

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I’ve noticed a surprising amount of very cheap Volkswagen sedans with manuals popping up on the Craigslist lately, which I think warrants further investigation. Manual versions of non-sporty cars in particular seem to plummet in value.

Just take this 201 0 VW CC with only 74,000 miles. The 6 speed seems to be the only reason the seller is asking just $6,500 ! The paint does seem to need a little bit of attention, but clearly this car has been well maintained and would make a great long distance cruiser. I’ve always kind of liked these big premium sedans from a company known for the exact opposite. I mean just look at that interior!

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If the CC isn’t your flavor, much newer well equipped Jettas can be had at that price all day long provided you like to row your own. This one in particular seems like a great deal if you don’t mind the miles. 133,000 miles over 4 years and an immaculate back seat means this was likely the personal car of a salesman instead of a rideshare driver. It appears they took excellent care of it and kept up on maintenance, so those miles really aren’t too worrying. $6,200 still seems like a steal.

If you like less mileage but can give up a backup camera and those fancy seats, 100,000 6 speed Jettas can be found at this price range all day.

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Really what I think I’ve learned here is that I want a VW CC. But these two cars also illustrate how hard it is to sell a manual car that isn’t performance oriented. Sad, but it makes for some great deals.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:19

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I love the CC. My roommate has one of that gene ratio n that he never drives. It’s amazing how premium that cars feels. That said, they are from the time period where VWs weren’t the most reliable things in the world.

Just Jeepin' > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:21

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First one is 2010, not 2020 as you typed. Threw me for a moment, thought that was one hell of a short relationship.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Just Jeepin' 04/22/2020 at 12:23

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Thank you, I fixed it.

Ash78, voting early and often > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:37

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The CC always looked cool, but was just a Passat underneath (for most of its run). So basically you’re getting a midrange/near-premium sedan with only 4 seats, less headroom, cooler interior, and virtually the same performance....but at a premium. It was a weird proposition, but the market seems to have accepted fashion statements pretty readily.

For 15 years I daily drove a ‘98 Passat, fully loaded, with V6 and 5MT. My dad was the prior owner and bought it after it just sat on the dealer lot for 6 months and they cut him a great deal. Bottom line: Americans never knew what to do with near-luxury cars with manuals. It wasn’t even a thing here. In fact, only 200 of that configuration even hit North America that year.

RallyWrench > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:38

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CC’s drive nice, and I love the seats in them. The 2.0T engine is fine in and of itself , but everything bolted to it is a piece of shit. Particularly the water pump. And PCV separator. And rear main seal. And upper timing cover. And timing chain tensioner. And injectors. And high pressure fuel pump. And intake manifold. And turbo... The 2.0 got a major revamp for the 2009 model year (when they went to chain drive, the first gen ‘05-’08 BPY/BPG was belt ) , and again for 2015. It’s the ‘09-14s that we’re seeing with a lot issues.

The manuals are good , but the clutches are a weak link, often starting to slip  by 100k in normal use, and it will probably need the DMF in that case as well. The DSG dual clutch boxes are really durable as well, just FYI. 

FSI > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:39

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The Passat CC might sound like a steal but it probably eats oil like crazy as all 1.8/2.0 TSI  engines do. There is a fix for it but it's costly. Other than that, nice cars. 

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:41

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They’re cheap and pretty good, go ahead and buy like five of em.

The Ghost of Oppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:46

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I think it has less to do with the transmission and more to do with the badge. VW’s reliability problems have led to some steep depreciation curves

https://jalopnik.com/these-are-the-late-model-cars-with-the-highest-deprecia-1826829308

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:48

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The 6 speed seems to be the only reason the seller is asking just $6,500 !

The more critical factor is it’s a ten year old VW. I’ve owned 5 VWs (three TDIs) and they were all good cars. I like the CC and see they’re cheap to buy - 5 year old cars can be had all day long in the low teens. I’ve only seen one or two manuals though; those are almost unicorns. 

Gerry197 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:49

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I had a 2010 VW CC 2.0T R-Line which I loved. Looked great, handled well and was a refined luxury car. Big mistake was the DSG tranny, which worked well but was boring to use, especially since the early models didn’t have steering wheel paddles. However, sometimes you can’t be too picky on the used car market.

My issue was the ticking time bomb the motor was, which had a well known potentially costly issue I didn’t want to deal with after warranty. I bought it as a lease return, only 2 years old which most CC are leased to begin with.

Which of course led me to the other big issue of VW (and most German sedans) was is their low resale value. Luckily I traded it in on a full size truck which not only sucked up the negative equity but returned nice resale 4 years later when I traded the truck in on another vehicle. Say what you will about big trucks, they have fantastic resale value.

However, at this age and price point, you are already depreciated. You won’t lose much more and the risks are relatively low even if you have the cam chain issue. I would consider getting that pro actively fixed if you bought it.

Jim Spanfeller > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 12:52

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Volkswagen m anuals are indeed quite affordable, you can find loads for between $30-$ 50.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Jim Spanfeller 04/22/2020 at 13:19

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First you go and name my Geoff Cruze, I mean name my Cruze Goeff grrrrr, and now you make me LOL during during a video conference. You're on thin ice bub.

Jim Spanfeller > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 13:21

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Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Jim Spanfeller 04/22/2020 at 13:29

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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 13:40

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What is CC? That first one, at $6,500, strikes me as a good price with the manual. With an automatic, you’d have to pay me to own it.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/22/2020 at 13:48

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The CC has always interested me because it was a big near luxury sedan that punches way above its weight that could be had with a manual. It’s been a while since something like it has been on the market since that is not something Americans tend to buy. It’s pleasantly different and man those seats just look so so comfortable. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Gerry197 04/22/2020 at 13:53

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So do you think the driving experience would improved by the 6 speed? I imagine that extra driving engagement would make this a pretty unique experience.

When making sure you weren’t a burner I noticed you have one post to your personal blog. If you get posting privileges here you can move the post into the Oppositelock folder for it to appear here.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 04/22/2020 at 13:55

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An automatic CC Sport with those miles in this condition would easily fetch 8k+ with some patience so I would call this a NP. This era of VW did have some reliability problems and expensive repair bills, but they are supposed to be very refined cars with all that late 2000s overengineering. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > RallyWrench 04/22/2020 at 13:56

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I think those seats are like half the reason I want one. They just look so comfortable! The reliability concerns wouldn’t make this a good buy on a strict budget but some initial investment might make this a great worry free cruiser.

Gerry197 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 14:12

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Absolutely, I drove the manuals and it makes a night and day difference. I’m sure on a GTI the programming is different for the DSG, but on the CC it was boresville.

The manual would have made enough difference that I probably would have kept the car to be honest. Factor in the much cheaper transmission oil service along with probably longevity and it’s no contest.

Thanks for the info, with more time at home, I may just start to do that.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 14:13

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I was looking at 2014 and newer, which are in the low teens. I did find a few in the 8-9k range but they had much higher miles. I kinda like these better than the Passat (my last VW was a 2012 Passat TDI) but wasn’t aware there were problems with the 2 liter Four. I’ve seen a few VR6 CCs and might consider one of those, just not sure how the Six holds up vs the Four. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 04/22/2020 at 14:18

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I would say ultimately this is a heavy car powered by a not particularly powerful or reliable engine, so you had better be prepared for some hefty initial investment in repairs to prevent much more expensive issues down the line. With the cam and injectors sorted I’m sure it would just eat up highway miles while also being a little different and a little more fun. I wasn’t aware the VR6 was even offered. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Gerry197 04/22/2020 at 14:22

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I like the CC and there really hasn’t been anything like it on the market recently. it’s sort of an alternative to the near luxury big sedan market but with overengineering and the associated costs of repairs at a low point in VW’s reliability. Some up front repairs could make this a seriously nice ride though.

Yeah, apply under the #clubopenings tab at the top of Oppo and then go here to move it from your personal blog.

Jb boin > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 14:27

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Got me curious on how much the CC are selling here (France), it seems that the cheapest on LeBonCoin (our Craigslist) for the whole courtry are at 6000€ (there a 3 at this price), so about the same as yours but they all have around 200.000km and a 2.0 TDI 140, 2 of them with a DSG (one has a quarter panel+door in bad shape and the other seems a bit shady with a low res interior pic ) and one manual (that have DPF issues).

The cheapest petrol is listed at 7500€ with around the same mileage as your listing but only has the 1.8T and is white.

Gerry197 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 14:38

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There should be more good examples out there, get an R-Line if you can, it’s purely a cosmetic package like the S-Line in an Audi, but makes for a striking car.

The issue now is the Arteon, which isn’t selling or leasing particularly well from what I know. These means less cars for the used market one day. That’s one awesome car!

Here is a pic of mine on trade in day for my new truck & car salesman, which was probably the best financial move I made involving vehicles. Literally saved me $4,000 in lost equity.

But even after saying that, I do miss that car. Find an good one with a manual and you will not be disappointed! Just ask your passengers to watch their heads getting in.

Thanks for the screenshot, will do that soon.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 14:39

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But what is CC?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/22/2020 at 14:56

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Sometimes called the Passat CC for the car it was based off of, the Volkswagen CC is a large near luxury sedan.

I had to look it up, but the name stands for comfort coupe .

CC

Passat

2nd Gen CC

It was discontinued because of predictably poor sales, but the Arteon is basically the same concept.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Gerry197 04/22/2020 at 14:59

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I’m not in much of a position to be changing vehicles sadly, and my Cruze is still a great car that is near the bottom of the depreciation curve . If I did change rides I would end up in a Mini because I don’t need the massive backseat.

Gerry197 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 15:02

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Gotcha, another fun choice! I almost bough one recently, be really careful on those, they have a myriad of issues that could potentially break you.

I still have my manual E46 and E90 as my fun cars, though always looking for something different. Probably sell one and get a Miata.   

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Gerry197 04/22/2020 at 15:12

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I’m considering a Miata as well; I am going to have to wait until I can afford a suitable emergency/repair fund before selling my perfectly functional practical car for a less practical car that costs more to run/maintain at any rate. 

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 15:19

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Yup. The Executive VR6 with or without 4motion. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 04/22/2020 at 15:32

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These came with AWD? Why is that even necessary? VR6 sounds nice though, both literally and figuratively .

Fergmeister > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 15:48

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I sold my 2010 CC Sport after investing $5k in practically restoring the motor and tranny to like new condition. At 127k it was a deal of a highway cruiser and C urve Carver in the mountains. Go for it, well informed and realistic as you seem to be. All the best.

Fergmeister > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 04/22/2020 at 15:57

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Help me remember when VW was ever a reliable ride on par with Asian brands like Toyota or Honda. My 1985 Jetta diesel was bulletproof but so slow with that 1.6 NA oil burner!

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 15:59

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https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/788754733/overview/

Sure they did. Why is it necessary? I’d say it’s not, as AWD just adds weight and complexity while winter tires on a FWD car is sufficient most often. 

SpeedSix > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 16:21

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Interestingly, the Arteon is marketed in China as the next-gen CC.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > SpeedSix 04/22/2020 at 17:19

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Makes sense; I don't know why they changed the name in the US but Arteon is a good name.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 04/22/2020 at 19:21

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I drove a Passat last year, one that was five or six years old and I was really impressed with how it drove, but I assumed  that the transmission was made of glass.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/22/2020 at 19:29

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I have ridden in them and in general their refinement is impressive for the age and price point. I don’t know much about the CC but if the driving dynamics are a fourth the improvement the exterior and interior design is over the regular Passat, then it sounds fantastic. The few CC owners who commented here seemed to love them, but no one has any experience with the presumably tougher 6 speed. 

alphavolvo > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 04/23/2020 at 09:13

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We have a 2014 CC with the 3.6 VR6 with 4Motion . Bought it new in 2015 dealer clearance. The VR6 apparently is a tried and true engine. Overall it’s been a very solid car. The only issue we had was the nav/infotainment screen going dark. Replaced twice under warranty. The third one has been OK so far. Granted, my wife doesn’t drive it much. It only has 31k miles. 

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > alphavolvo 04/23/2020 at 11:07

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Any issues with the 4motion system? I realize the car’s got lot miles, but the complexity of that system is a little concerning & might push me to the fwd VR6 instead.