USS Theodore Roosevelt, CVN-71 [UPDATE] Capt. Crozier is Relieved of Command.

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 04/02/2020 at 17:15 • Filed to: None

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I called that one.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

The aircraft carrier !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! has an accelerating COVID outbreak ongoing among her crew. The ship’s captain, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to the command asking them to evacuate his crew in order to avoid deaths of sailors for whom social distancing is impossible. The Roosevelt is in Guam, where there’s no place to quarantine 5,000 sailors.

I expect the act of writing that letter will effectively end Capt. Crozier’s Navy career.

Just Jeepin' > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 21:58

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Oof. We just talked about a submarine crew that was partying on-shore recently. Probably not the last time a Navy  ship faces this.

WilliamsSW > Just Jeepin' 03/31/2020 at 22:02

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The article lists a half dozen ships that have COVID positive crew members, none as bad as the TR though. I do think it’s a good idea not to publicize that information.  The Ronald Reagan has several aboard also, that’s two flattops. 

speedy964 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 22:03

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Oh boy, I can’t see this ending well for the crew of the ship.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 22:12

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Saw this on the BBC. Such a shit situation as you also don’t want to be introducing a bunch of cases of Covid to an island with minimal resources.

Taking out carriers. That’s an impressive show of force, mother nature.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 22:18

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5000 crew, none of whom are like l y to be aged or health- compromised. So maybe 0.1% death rate. 5 people: not fun, but c ould be a lot worse. The authorities are probably better to just bott le them up and let it sweep thro ugh, than try and lash up land-based quarantine that’ll likely be ineffective.

I wonder whether t he military death rate through covid will turn out to be higher or lower than the reduction due to reduced activity levels during the outbreak.

f86sabre > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 22:20

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https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32824/sailors-do-not-need-to-die-captain-of-covid-19-plagued-carrier-pleads-to-bring-crew-ashore

Tyler’s take on it. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WilliamsSW 03/31/2020 at 22:26

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I agree. Hard to imagine that the military of any other country is in much better shape. This is a tsunami.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 03/31/2020 at 22:27

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150 of 200 tests, tested positive.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 03/31/2020 at 22:28

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And from what I heard today, 200 crew per day is the best they can do at getting them tested. This is not good.

wafflesnfalafel > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 22:32

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right...

B ut honestly, that is leading from the front - the commander is hosed so that others may live as sh!tty as it is....

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 22:32

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Oh geez. And abandoning ship is definitely not an option here. I didn’t even think about Navy vessels with COVID.

Jayvincent > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/31/2020 at 22:46

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I like how the E-2 is leading the flyover, with the fighter jocks following in her tail feathers

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 03/31/2020 at 22:50

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Apparently, the Navy didn’t think about that either.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Jayvincent 03/31/2020 at 22:50

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Beauty, eh?

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 03/31/2020 at 23:25

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Yup, and with 150 cases ( at least) in a population of 5000, the y’ve clearly completely lost control of it. It’s going to rip through the crew like a dose of bad chilli.

Where I was heading with the above is that it’s probably better to let it do that and wear the consequences than to try and quarantine the crew onshore and risk spreading it faster and worse through the civi lia n population, or to evacuate them to anothe r navy facility and possibly accelerate the spread through the rest of the navy via the transpor ta tion equipment and personnel. A navy crew’s a healthy population, and a carrier probably has more hospital beds per head than most other places on earth - it won’t be fun but they’ll come through it with less casualties than a random sele ction of 5000 infected civi lians.

Derpwagon > DipodomysDeserti 04/01/2020 at 00:39

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Regardless of your politics, your dreams or aspirations, your thoughts, wishes or accomplishments, mother nature is unrelenting and will take what she will.

Derpwagon > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/01/2020 at 00:45

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How I wish Mattis was still Secdef.

DipodomysDeserti > Derpwagon 04/01/2020 at 01:23

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Oh yeah. I’m currently reading articles and taking quizzes for my water law and policy class. My undergrad was in health sciences, where the goal is to defeat mother nature.

First thing my water law professor tells us to when creating policy is to understand the natural system. Society is learning that the hard way right now.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Derpwagon 04/01/2020 at 07:15

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 So many posers.

Grindintosecond > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:19

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Because giving a shit about your people is 2nd bananna  in this administration.

Just Jeepin' > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:22

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I’m still baffled that the Navy didn’t stop all shore leaves/new personnel on ships in February. Or earlier.

Maddening.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/02/2020 at 17:23

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I’m just hoping the Boomer subs and the silos have crews quarantined throughout... because I’m assuming Ells worth AFB, Minot AFB and Barksdal e AFB are all at risk.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 04/02/2020 at 17:24

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It’s not a good look to “out” your chain of command.  never a good career move.

BrooklynEagle > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 04/02/2020 at 17:26

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Maybe, maybe not. But fatality rate is the wrong metric here. It’s the volume of ER, ICU and ventilator cases (real or potential) and the capacity to deal with those. Yes, not great situation onshore in Guam, either, but at least you can spread your people out, and maybe actually isolate the positive/suspected cases as they did in China and Korea.

BrooklynEagle > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:28

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The Captain had to have known this would be the result of speaking out (though it’s unclear who leaked/released the letter). Even the regular old Navy chain of command wouldn’t like it, never mind the White House. Fact that he went out on the limb knowing this makes it all the more noble a decision .

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:30

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They are closer to bases in Japan/Oz than Pearl at this point.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:31

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The link is blocked for me right now. What was the Navy’s rationale for removing the CO? Some kind of OPSEC violation for wanting to take care of his crew? 

Azrek > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:34

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But...did removing the Commander solve all the problems? 

and 100 more > Derpwagon 04/02/2020 at 17:40

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I mean, this was all hers to begin with.

Nauraushaun > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:43

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Seems as though a man did the right thing and the media got hold of it, and now the man is getting fucked over.

The media are worthless cunts

For Sweden > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 17:48

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Navy fight er jock wri te s a letter outside the chain of command: fired

Navy SEAL kills kids: pardoned

Them’s the rules

ttyymmnn > Jayvincent 04/02/2020 at 17:58

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Flank speed: let the slowest ship set the pace. 

ttyymmnn > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 04/02/2020 at 18:02

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“I lost confidence in his ability to continue to lead that warship as it fights through the virus,” [Acting Navy Secretary Thomas] Modly said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-02/captain-of-u-s-carrier-relieved-of-command-after-virus-letter

Aremmes > Nauraushaun 04/02/2020 at 18:03

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OTOH, the captain lost control of the situation on his ship. Throwing his hands in the air and saying “I give up” doesn’t look like leadership from any point of view . Preferably, he’d be decomissioned for a while and then placed on something like an LCS, but he likely won’t command a carrier ever again.

MarquetteLa > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 04/02/2020 at 18:09

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Barksdale in particular is right in the middle of a huge outbreak in northwest Louisiana.

benn454 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 18:11

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Because burying their heads in the sand and reprimanding a commander for thinking about welfare of his subordinates will solve everything.

HammerheadFistpunch > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 18:32

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Thats poor.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 04/02/2020 at 18:34

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Yes, although there’s nothing there to say that he was the one who outed them - SF Chronicle got a letter somehow and it was “confirmed by a senior officer on board the aircraft carrier” - probably the one who leaked it in the first place.  

His career’s screwed anyway though - they’re embarrassed and it doe sn ’t matter whether it was directly his fault, he’ll wear the fury. Plus arguably it was his “fault” ( in a buck-stops-here sense) that they lost control of the spread onboard in the first place.

Nauraushaun > Aremmes 04/02/2020 at 18:47

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I guess so. But what is a man to do? The solution is distancing, and quarantine on that ship is not possible.

He’d be better off just letting the entire ship get sick but remaining in charge, but that would be the best thing for him and the absolute worst thing for his crew. Instead he chose to admit that there was no solution available to him, and ask for help, which is the best option available.

:\

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > BrooklynEagle 04/02/2020 at 18:55

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Yup, fair comment. But in terms of ICU beds per head of population, an aircraft carrier’s got about twice as many as the US average*, and while the peak demand will be higher as it sweeps though a small population fast, the ICU-cases-per-infected-person ratio will be lower because they don’t have all the vulnerable types who are jamming up hospital beds in Italy etc. Net win? Anybody’s guess.

Anyway, I’m not arguing that the sailors would be better off left cooped up, I’m arguing that moving them off may create more risk for everyone else than leaving them on would for the sailors.

*taking the stats from the Gerald R Ford since I couldn’t find the numbers for a Nimitz class : 3 ICU beds, 4000 crew = 75 beds per 100k population. US as a who le is 35 per 100k.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 04/02/2020 at 19:07

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Or, lost control of his chain of command. In the DoD? I have a zero tolerance policy for “leakers”. Skipper won’t be the only one who has career ramifications.

It’s an interesting questions--   how many “severely ill” cases does a boat full of 20-somethings in good condition see?  Everybody’s exposed, everybody get’s “something”.... What percentage would need a hospital bed to recover?

DipodomysDeserti > Nauraushaun 04/02/2020 at 19:11

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If the media were worthless cunts you’d be wondering around wondering why everyone was getting sick and dying.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden 04/02/2020 at 19:14

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If there’s one thing this administration has a disdain for, it’s brown kids.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Grindintosecond 04/02/2020 at 19:37

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I’m sure he assumed he’d get sacked. Put his people first. Acting SecNav really talked him down, which is very unprofessional. This administration never fails to fail.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Just Jeepin' 04/02/2020 at 20:03

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Same. I think any three- or four-star flag officer who might have recommended that shipped out with General Mattis.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BrooklynEagle 04/02/2020 at 20:06

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Yes, noble, IMHO. Threw himself on the proverbial grenade for his troops. Made the administration look like the bunch of bumbling sycophants they are and got the chop for it. I hope he’s successful finding work, or enjoying his family, or whatever.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 04/02/2020 at 20:29

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Modly

Thomas Modly, who served 7 years in the Navy a long time ago and has since been on Wall Street or someplace and who has hair that President Trump would envy.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 20:34

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“Acting”

By appointing a string of acting gov’t officials, Trump never has to get them confirmed. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch 04/02/2020 at 20:35

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What’s poor is how many people will go along and say he was a turncoat or whatever and deserved the sack. Let’s see where we are on May Day.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > benn454 04/02/2020 at 20:36

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At some level, I accept that writing the letter would end the guy’s career, and he would also, I expect . What’s alarming is that writing the letter would become necessary.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 04/02/2020 at 20:37

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True, that.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 20:38

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I did see that they were going to evacuate most of the crew so that’s good.

I think there’s an argument to be made that letting it spread to the point it functionally disables a supercarrier represents a huge failure, one that maybe justifies removing the captain, but from the comments coming out, it definitely seems like they were mostly concerned that he sent his letter to enough people that it was sure to leak, instead of being a good boy and just sending it to someone who’d ignore it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 04/02/2020 at 20:39

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I’d like to learn whether (Acting) Secretary Modly belonged to Tail Hook back when he was in.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 04/02/2020 at 20:41

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Skipper threw himself on the career grenade and saved his ship, rather than going down with it. I applaud the man. So little confidence he must have had in his chain of command. This is a very bad look for the administration.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/02/2020 at 21:00

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He left the Navy in 1990, and Tailhook took place in 1991. As a helicopter pilot, he was probably part of the culture that was exposed by Tailhook. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Just Jeepin' 04/02/2020 at 21:10

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which boat?

Just Jeepin' > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 04/02/2020 at 21:11

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Can’t tell you; I remember the discussion, but that’s it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 04/02/2020 at 21:15

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Yup.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Just Jeepin' 04/02/2020 at 21:19

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I know of one that had to swing into port before heading back out . The captain let the crew go home for the weekend, so they could see their family. the decision  was not well received by many

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 04/02/2020 at 22:16

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Nope. You would think that they of all people should know. 

Nauraushaun > DipodomysDeserti 04/02/2020 at 22:49

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Maybe some of the time, but not in this case. My government is doing a fine job at spreading information, and I work with people who travelled to China for the new year and were well informed.

Information spreads these days faster than ever, the media’s job is to profit from the spread of information. They’re incentivis ed, but not by truth, accuracy, freeom from bias or even having a positive impact on the world.

DipodomysDeserti > Nauraushaun 04/02/2020 at 23:02

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The Chinese government was disappearing the first doctors to report the dangers of this coronavirus to “the media”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/coronavirus-china-doctor-disappears-warned-about-covid-19-threat/amp/

There’s a lot of shit media out there, just like there are a lot of shit governments. The good media keep the shit governments in check, Donnie.

Anyone who talks about “freedom from bias” in anything  is not going to benefit from good media, so just listen to what your betters tell you.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > For Sweden 04/03/2020 at 00:26

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Maybe Trump will intervene and get Crozier’s job back. Because he loves the military. 

Grindintosecond > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/04/2020 at 18:13

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reading the RealClearDefense website mentions china+russia PR battles in the world against us and we just show everyone out there not to hang with us, again and again. Failing all over the place.

I’m so sick of this winning, as promised.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Grindintosecond 04/04/2020 at 19:30

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 Where are you located?

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/06/2020 at 14:08

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Modly sounds even more like a piece of garbage who cares more about not looking the president look bad than the health, or even the readiness of the sailors under his command than I would have expected : Acting Navy Secretary Slams Fired Captain as ‘Stupid’

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 04/06/2020 at 18:26

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Wow. That’s really low.