What's your biggest panic-buy? (gunlopnik edition)

"atfsgeoff" (atfsgeoff) 03/19/2020 at 18:05 • Filed to: None

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Helped my cousin buy his first rifle yesterday, a S&W M&P15. Got it for a good price too, about $700 out the door. He is a self-admitted panic buyer who is concerned about impending societal breakdown/looting during the coronapocolypse.

I already have a healthy arsenal to fit the homestead defense toolkit, but I’ve been on the hunt for a new carry pistol for a couple months so I also came home with a new hunk of expensive metal. I’m not sure if it’s also considered a panic buy since I already have a couple other perfectly functional handguns that are simply less suited for EDC.

(Yeah I know, you gun folks will probably scoff at me for choosing a nearly-3lb all-steel full size competition pistol for EDC. What can I say, I have an infatuation with steel. What’s an extra pound on your hip in the grand scheme of things?)

I’d love to go out and shoot a couple hundred rounds through it and vet its reliability, but all the 9mm is sold out everywhere, so it’ll have to wait a month or two. Just as well since I needed to custom-order a holster which will take 4 to 6 weeks to arrive. I have about a hundred rounds of FMJ, but I’d rather not shoot it up and be left empty-handed at the moment.

How about you guys? Enable any friends or family in making uncharacteristically large prep/survival purchases in the past couple weeks?

MM54 > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:10

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The M&P15s are pretty nice, good choice. Your new “expensive steel” is also very nice - and I agree, composite / lightweight guns are nice, but there’s something about a heavy, dense, balanced handgun that’s just comfortable.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:11

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Guns for sure are a big seller right now...

jimz > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:11

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I wouldn’t call it a “panic” buy since I didn’t run out specifically to get it, but about 10 years ago I got a Romanian WASR 10/63 (AK-pattern) from Dunham’s since the price was still reasonable and there was a non-zero chance I might not be able to get one later. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:12

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I bought breakfast at a fast food place........Does that count as panic buying?

I’ve got a 12 ga. with a set of slugs for the impending doom. Although they are locked up and not easily accessible...toddlers and all. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:13

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I did actually go look at guns, but they were essentially sold out. It's mental for Canada.

vondon302 > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:16

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Dats purty!

Nom De Plume > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:17

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I can ’t post pics of my three pound EDC or what I keep it holstered in publicly after the last scare it caused.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Nom De Plume 03/19/2020 at 18:21

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Maybe you should stop showing things like that public l y at applebees?

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:21

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I’m going shopping for a ruger 10-22. I hope they aren’t sold out. I like to target shoot in the yard and my hunting rifle is a bit ummm... loud for that. I could also use it to pop the occasional turkey for lean eating.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:22

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I bought some maintenance parts for my 4Runner in case I get stuck at home and get bored, but other than that...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:22

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That CZ sure is nice, I love CZs and have several. Bu t I think its a bit silly for an EDC, especially concealed. I keep a little Ruger LC9 s for that job.

The M&P 15 is certainly servicable. I know a guy who runs a mostly stock one in 3 gun and does very well with it. Just like in racing, its more about the operator than the equipment. 

sony1492 > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:23

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Bought a .3 08 Ruger American earlier today , Yes a panic purchase but also not. I’ve been into guns for a while, shot a few, just never got around to owning one and now is looking like a good time to be an owner. I’m interested in learning a bit of marksmanship and getting f amily members comfortable shooting

atfsgeoff > MM54 03/19/2020 at 18:23

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Having shot thousands of rounds through pistols over the years, I gotta say, the heavier the pistol the more comfortable and more accurate it is to shoot generally speaking. I’ve fired at least a couple dozen different makes/models of polymer-framed pistols and they almost invariably feel very top-heavy, with a lot of muzzle flip. I’ve fired 1911s including full size 5"ers as well as 4"ers, and while they have much less muzzle flip, I find the grip safety to be ungainly. I was considering a Beretta M9A3, which would have been a couple hundred less than this CZ, but the M9A3 honestly has a really badly-positioned safety that’s difficult to manipulate with your thumb, especially one-handed.

CZ wasn’t even on my radar till I saw this in the display case and asked to handle it. As soon as I picked it up, that thing spoke to me. It feels as if it was milled from a solid billet of steel. In a word, it’s... substantial . It’s heavy but not cumbersome. The center of gravity is close to the grip. I did about a half hour of research while deliberating and watched much of Hickok45's review on it:

When they finally got through to PICS for my cousin’s check, the clerk asked if anyone else was buying a gun that day, because it might be the last opportunity to get a BG check done. I raised my hand, smiled, and asked for the 4473. It’s the next day, and I’m very happy with my purchase. No buyer’s remorse.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Nom De Plume 03/19/2020 at 18:26

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Look, we told you last time, 3 hand grenades duct taped together isn't EDC

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:26

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I haven't bought anything really. I already had everything I needed basically. 

Decay buys too many beaters > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:26

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I have received a resupply drop from the motherland. As it stands, I am fine on firearms and nato ammo . I now feel slightly less crazy about how much I bought last year now. I’ve actually sold a couple firearms in the last week .

Chariotoflove > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:27

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My brother works at the gun store/firing range that my BIL manages. He’s been working crazy hours selling guns at a ridiculous pace. Apparently apocalypse is good for business. This is in high-end suburban Carmel, IN, where people have the $$ for nice guns. I have to remember to ask him what the profile of merchandise he is selling looks like, just because I’m curious.

Also, my uneducated mind tells me that $700 is a good price for that gun.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:29

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As a gun-owning, gun-loving, commie-hippie-pinko-lefty, I do not condone, encourage, or engage in “panic” buying of firearms, and I am dangerously close to starting a rant about how shit like this is exactly why we can’t have nice things and why city-d welling anti-gun activists don’t thin k we should be allowed to keep and use firearms. I'm stopping now, because I think you probably understand what I mean... But my jimmies are rustled. 

atfsgeoff > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 03/19/2020 at 18:29

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True story, I got kicked out of an Applebee’s for open carrying once. I complained to corporate, they sent me a $50 gift card and encouraged me to carry openly (and lawfully) in their restaurants in the future. I bet that manager got chewed out pretty good.

Nom De Plume > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 03/19/2020 at 18:30

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Apple?

Manny05x > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:30

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Palmetto had a sale on that AR i should of jumped on it, came with fore grip, case and scope for 600$. When everything dies down i am going to purchase a AR. I own a smith and wesson sd9ve very nice cheap 9mm.  

jimz > Chariotoflove 03/19/2020 at 18:31

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Apparently apocalypse is good for busine ss.

well, someone might try to steal my cache of butt tape.

Chariotoflove > jimz 03/19/2020 at 18:32

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Then you’d have to switch to zip ties.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:32

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No panic buys yet since I don’t have the free funds right now, but if that stimulus check comes I’m probably going to be picking up a PSA AK underfolder just to have around. I too EDC a full size but mine’s half polymer.  

Nom De Plume > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 03/19/2020 at 18:33

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I had no idea the average weight of a hand grenade was that light.

MonkeePuzzle > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:34

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I didnt get a rifle, I’ve been instructed to just run around y elling bang bang!

when the man in front of me falls I will take his rifle

fintail > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:36

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I’ve thought about getting a Luger because they look cool, not sure how practical they are. I’ve had the thought long before the current unpleasantness.

Biggest actual purchase was some TP, but I was down to 5 rolls at home, so I justified it.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > sony1492 03/19/2020 at 18:36

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Congrats on the purchase! That is a really good choice for a first rifle. 308 is a ubiquitous caliber and can do almost everything. If you want any tips, tricks, advice feel free to ask. I shoot competitively in multiple disciplines and coach a junior youth shooting team.

ranwhenparked > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:39

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I haven’t done any panic buying, trying to avoid people and hold onto as much cash as possible. And, when it comes down to it, I’m only expecting to need one gun and one bullet, at the most, anyway. 

atfsgeoff > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/19/2020 at 18:39

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Oh I agree, it’s a very silly EDC from an outside perspective. B ut having fired a lot of subcompacts/pocket guns over the years, they’re just miserable to shoot compared to a full size pistol. A gun that’s pleasant and fun to shoot, encourages more range time and practice, which translates to better handling and marksmanship under pressure.

Thomas Donohue > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:42

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I bought three  extra quarts of half&half for my coffee.  There was plenty available but you never know.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:42

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I always find it funny how that message doesn’t get across in big chains like that. Like you *know* that has to be part of your managerial training at one point or another if you want to open your own location . Especially if you serve alcohol. Whatever your policy is, it better damn well be consistent.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Nom De Plume 03/19/2020 at 18:43

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Hey man, it’s cool. I can’t judge after what happened last time I was at a chili’s

Captain of the Enterprise > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:43

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I bought a new memory card for my camera which doesn’t sound bad buts it’s an 64gb xqd style card so it was $115. I only had one 32gb card before so now I have a backup. 

atfsgeoff > fintail 03/19/2020 at 18:44

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Lugers are super cool, and CAN be practical. After all, they were designed and built as military sidearms. Good luck finding one for a reasonable price though! Here’s a relatively-recent  article about the practical considerations of a Luger for an EDC.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2016/05/09/retro-carry-option-luger-p08-modern-ammunition/

Snuze: Needs another Swede > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:45

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I find my LC9s to be very manageable. I shoot it regularly and it really doesn’t bother me. My go to full frame is a Steyr L9-A1, I shoot it in 3 gun. That said, I have a CZ 70 compact and a CZ 75 BD Police model and both are absolutely fantastic. My friend just bought a P10 Shadow (I think Ive got that right) and its a dream to shoot.

Thats the beauty, everybody is different and theres something to suit each preference. 

sony1492 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/19/2020 at 18:46

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There will definitely be q uestions down the line, right now it’s about deciding on what scope power I’ll actually want

atfsgeoff > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ 03/19/2020 at 18:46

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Sweet HK you got there, how many rounds do you have through it?

atfsgeoff > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 03/19/2020 at 18:51

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I agree , to the exten t that a person who would ordinarily never consider owning a gun, has no business panic-buying one during a state of emergency, especially with an intent to use it for defense. The gun is just the tool, it becomes dangerous when in the hands of an untrained, uninformed human who has not fully considered the ramifications of potentially taking a life with it. If you’re not fully prepared psychologically to utilize it at that moment when it’s needed, you’re worse-off than if you had no gun at all.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:52

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O nly ~500 so far. I just picked it up 2 months back and the only time I make it out to shoot is when I’m taking care of my parents ranch while they’re out of town. I was planning to go shoot again since I’m on the ranch but I decided I was better off sitting on what ammo I have right now until the craziness dies down a bit. 

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 18:59

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This is all true, and you and I both know it’s true because we have education and experience with guns... I’m convinced that ignorance is the biggest problem with [everything], and I would absolutely support a licensing requirement for gun ownership. Training, and a basic test. Much like is required to get a hunting license, or a driver’s licence should be a minimum requirement to purchase a firearm. But on the other side, I think a licensed individual in good standing with the law should be able to buy any freak’n gun they want. I could probably even stand a tiered system like CDL classes for more powerfu l weapons... I feel like literal interpretation of the second am endment is the enemy of my freedom in a regulated society. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > sony1492 03/19/2020 at 19:00

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Dont fall into the trap of “over scoping”. Quality glass means more than magnification, especially at ranges you’re likely to shoot (unless you have dreams of doing stuff at 1000 yards+, but tbh this isnt really the ideal rifle for that, though it could work). Ive done work at 500-550 yards with a .223 and a 1-6x scope, and shot out to 1100 yards with my 300 Win Mag using a 4-14x. A decent rule of thumb is around 1x per 100 yards you plan to shoot.

For a 308 I think something like a 2-7x or 3-9x would be ideal. I would also decide on a reticle and turrets - I personally prefer Mil/Mil but can work in MOA as well. I personally hate cheap Mil/MOA combo scopes. Another option to consider is focal plane. I prefer first given the choice but second is fine. One thing to look for would be a 30mm tube over a 1" tube, if thats an option. Finally, scope mounts or rings are really important, do not skimp on cheap chinese rings. I personally love DNZ mono mounts for my bolt guns - they are spendy at ~ $100 but they eliminate the rings and riser and replace it with a one piece billet mount. Eliminates a potential source of error.

Good brands of scopes I like are Primary Arms, Nikon, Vortex, and Athlon.

If you have more questions or any of this sounds like gibberish to you, Id be happy to explain more.  

jminer > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 19:01

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I actually went the other way and sold a couple guns this week. Been meaning to thin out the herd anyway so this is about the perfect time to do so.

fintail > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 19:01

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Interesting read, thanks. It’s a vanity thing, but I just like the look. I’ve prided myself for living in an area where carrying likely hasn’t been needed, but as the socio-economic devolution continues, who knows.

I wouldn’t need a 100 year old antique or nazi model, something modern would be fine. I see they have a cult, but that also means if it came time to trade or upgrade, one could likely get their money back.  Maybe if we get a nice stimulus check, that’ll be on the list.

atfsgeoff > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 03/19/2020 at 19:05

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I’m fundamentally against licensing requirements BUT with the caveat that I think basic firearms safety training   should be a mandatory part of the curriculum in public schools. 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 03/19/2020 at 19:06

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This is why I’m happy Canada has such a system for basic safety knowledge and accountability for firearms. Ironically I’ve been debating going out and ‘panic buying’ (is it panic buying if I know I’ll get one eventually?) an SKS....but I won’t.

404 - User No Longer Available > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ 03/19/2020 at 19:07

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I have one too...

...except mine’s made by Umarex VFC, lol.

Still waiting for my holster (it's being quarantined atm) so I can shoot a match with it.

atfsgeoff > jminer 03/19/2020 at 19:08

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Yes it is, it’s a seller’s market right now!

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 03/19/2020 at 19:08

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Are there rules around open carry and alcohol outside of banning open carry in establishments selling alcohol? I don’t expect you to have a comprehensive knowledge but I’m curious what your experience is. 

Hamtractor > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 19:14

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Right when the toilet paper thing fired up, maybe a week before people started cleaning out the grocery stores and generally acting like idiots, I picked up 2000 rounds of 62gr 5.56mm green tips for just under $400, which was a pretty great deal. Those suckers are purely “THIS IS THE END” stock. Ballistically, they shoot the same out to about 350 yards as the 62gr Hornady stuff I keep loaded up in magazines. And close enough to the 60gr V-Max stuff I keep in the gun for things that go bump in the night...

Kudos to all of the CZ fans here, CZ is the best kept secret in the pistol game, for sure.  I have a CZ-75 PCR that I’ve carried for the better part of a decade...  CZ is the Oppo of manufacturers...

The only “panic buy” we really did was potatoes and oatmeal. We already have 30 days worth of food and water, because we’re weirdos who shop at Costco, lol!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 19:16

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Are your tax dollars going to pay for that? What grade do you put it in? Mandatory requirements like that are the epitome of Big Govern ment and get the “keep your laws off my [whatever]" crowd crowing about revolution. I'm not against public schools offering training, but just like driver's ed, it should be an elective. This reduces the burden to only those who choose to engage in the activity and can be funded through licensing fees just like driver's training. We need more than "guns are bad, m'kay" in schools, but mandatory training is a pipe dream at best. 

DipodomysDeserti > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 19:18

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How to get shot during societal break down:

1. Carry around a gun you don’t know how to use.

Should have saved his money on body armor. Societal collapse is a bad time to try and figure out how to gunfight.

sony1492 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/19/2020 at 19:20

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This is perfect, now I know where to be putting my research.

No dreams of 1000 yard shots, just want to reliably hit targets and understand sight adjustments for wind/distance. Likely much easier said then done

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 03/19/2020 at 19:22

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Well, in my city, it is left up to each establishment to decide how to handle citizens/customers who wish to carry. I know some places that are fine with open carry. Some places say “Concealed only”. Some still are “If you carry, we don’t serve you alcohol, but we will serve food/beer to go ”. And some places will refuse all service if you carry. But I live in a city full of small businesses. Ap plebees is a chain. I know people in town got mad when Bdubs said they would no longer allow open carry but.....well, that’s the chain’s decision. Sucks for the local operators but it’s also out of their hands. They just need to be aware of it and enforce it to remain in compliance whichever way it is. 

rockingthe2 > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 19:29

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Oooohhhh, I do need to offload a few things!

sony1492 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 03/19/2020 at 19:29

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It was excessively easy in ca of all places , fill out a test of common since questions, pay, wait 10 days and its yours. Why cant we have an 8 hour hands on course or something along with a more comprehensive test?

While in line: “what’s the biggest one you got?”

“Pfft I need proof of residency, fuckin police state”

atfsgeoff > DipodomysDeserti 03/19/2020 at 19:44

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Oh he is not new to guns, he’s been shooting with friends and family for years. Including ARs. This is just the first one that he personally owns

Snuze: Needs another Swede > jminer 03/19/2020 at 20:17

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I screwed up and sold several a month ago. But that was to be able to pick up this gem:

Mint Rockola. 

f86sabre > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 20:26

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Alternator for the Evo.

M.T. Blake > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 20:28

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Does installing 9.8kwh of lithium batteries in conjunction with my 11kwh PV count?

I now produce and hold my own power, and water. I just need farm animals and  2000’ of Hesco barriers and some machine gun nests.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/19/2020 at 20:42

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The entry level Nikon stuff is absurdly good for the money.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > fintail 03/19/2020 at 21:21

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I think of you as more of a walther guy.  You need something nice, german and precise. Q4 steel frame?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 03/19/2020 at 22:01

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Its very good. I was a huge fan of Primary Arms back when they were cheaper, they were an amazing value. They are still good, and a good value, but not the screaming deal they were.

I put an Athlon on my Win Mag and man that thing is nice.

This is my rig with the old Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP. I was shooting out to 1100 yards with it. Now that I have the Athlon 5-25x50 I’m planning to go for a mile shot. 

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/19/2020 at 22:11

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I would love a rig like that, but the truth is Vermont is not a great place for long range shooting. It’s hard enough finding a range/shooter-friendly field that’ s got 5 00 yards before a house, forrest or blocking hill... One thing a lot of people don’t realize is that our population isn’t well concentrated in cities and towns. The density looks low on paper, but its spread pretty evenly across the who le state... That, and mo untains.

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 03/19/2020 at 22:31

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Interesting.  The precision German idea does have appeal.  I see that one is much more affordable, too.   One to put on the consideration list, maybe in 2020 the year of panic, I’ll add a new frivolity to the collection.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > sony1492 03/19/2020 at 22:47

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I was on my phone earlier, now I’m on my laptop so it’s easier to type. I will expand just a bit on what I said before as it may help.

Buy something decent, don’t buy cheap chinese garbage. It’s fine to have one as a backup or a test scope (I do), b ut I wouldn’t stake my life, or my pride in a rifle competition, or my chances of a successful hunt (if I hunted) on it. That said, you also don’t need to spend a fortune either . My guns spend most of their time in the safe - I already have a lot of $$$ tied up sitting around that only gets shot a few times a year, I don’t need to tie up thousands in fancy Nightforce or Swarovski scopes. It doesn’t make you a better shooter. My first long range clinic I showed up with the rig below (green one in foreground ). It was a $400 Howa hunting rifle with a $200 Primary Arms scope in a $100 DNZ mount and a $50 UTG bipod. The rifle in the background with the fancy fluted barrel is Miller billet action with hand lapped Lilja barrel and blah blah blah. All that guy could talk about was how much money he sank into that rig. He’s got a $2500 Nightforce scope on it. His first time on the line he smacked himself in the face with the scope. He wouldn’t listen to the instructors and spent most of the weekend whining like a little bitch because he couldn’t hit shit . And I spent the weekend smoking him (and several other spendy guns and scopes ) with my $750 bargain rig.

Okay, now on to actual useful information. You can buy scopes in different tube diameters, the common ones are 1" and 30mm. 30mm is better because it can theoretically transmit more light, but it really only makes a big difference at higher powers. It’s still better, one less bottle neck in the system, but not as critical, at the magnifications that would be appropriate . I’d go 30mm if I could but wouldn’t sweat it.

There are different reticle styles, from plain old crosshairs to all kinds of crazy stuff with a billion lines and dots to account for every range and windage, etc. The biggest thing here I look for is that the reticle and turret adjustments are consistent. Either Mil/Mil (a Mil is a milliradian) or MOA/MOA (minute of angle, 1/60th of 1 degree). An MOA is 1.047" at 100 yards, or about 1", and most turrets are going to be in 1/4 MOA clicks, so 1/4" . A Mil is about 3.6" at 100 yards, and turrets are usually 1/10 Mil clicks, or 0.36". You may like one better than another, I personally prefer Mils because it’s what I learned on but I can use either. I just want the turrets and reticle to match. Also don’t get bogged down with those crazy reticles, just simple graduated lines is fine.

Another feature is focal plane - it has to do with how the reticle is etched. Most traditional scopes are 2nd focal plane, meaning the reticle is fixed and doesn’t change with magnification. The downside to this is the reticle graduations are only accurate at a certain power (usually the highest power on varia ble scopes). On a 1st focal plane scope the reticle grows with zoom. The upside is the reticle is always accurate in scale since it’s proportional to zoom, the downside is at very low powers it can be a bit hard to see. Again, this is a preference thing as each has ups and downs. If you’re looking at a scope and the box or website doesn’t say anything about focal plane, it’s probably 2nd focal plane.

As a side note the importance for understanding your reticle is to make range and windage calls when you don’t have a graduated target (i.e. a bullseye target with known dimensions). Say you want to shoot a basketball at some distance that you don’t know. You know it’s about 12" in diameter so you put your reticle over it, figure out how many mils/MOA wide it is, and then you can approximate your range to target from that. If you strike left or right of the target you can do the same thing to correct your windage.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-4-14x44mm-riflescope-mil-dot-pa4-14xffp

I run this scope on several of my rifles. It’s on the green rig above, I run it on my 308 AR-10, and I used to use it on my 300 W in M ag (see my repl y to JawzX2 below for my 300 Win Mag with this scope on it). I’ve made shots out to 1100 yards with that scope . It holds up to the recoil, it holds up to hard use, and it doesn’t break the bank. That and a good set of scope rings and you will be set. Something like this, maybe:

https://www.primaryarms.com/burris-xtreme-tactical-rings-30mm-medium-matte-2-piece-bu420162

One last piece of advice - consider investing in a torque screw driver or a a torque wrench that does inch-pounds . One of the worst things you can do is put a scope on too loose or too tight. Especially too tight. And I would be very leery about taking your gun to Dicks or Cabelas or wherever and having them mount a scope. I’ve fixed multiple guns for friends where they have absolutely cranked the scopes on way too tight. One guy had to take one back, they tightened it up so hard it broke the scope body and the glass with the reticle etched on it fell off and was rolling around in the tube!

And my 2 recommendations above are just that, not the end all be all, but things that I have personally used and like. There’s a lot of other good stuff out there. Nikon is great, so is Vortex. I have an Athlon on that Win Mag now that I love, though it’s a bit spendier. There’ s also good stuff from Burris, Leopold still makes nice stuff (though I think they are overpriced ). As far as rings, there’s lots of good ones, I love DNZ rings and mono mounts (on the Win Mag), and I also love Aero Precision . I run their Ultralight mount on my RDB 3 gun rifle and I beat the living hell out of that thing and it has been holding true for years. Warne and EGW are also good.

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 22:56

1

I didn’t realize so many of us were CZ freaks like me. I hereby declare us...CeeZoppositelock!

Here's my family photo! All in 9, all decockers. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 03/19/2020 at 22:59

1

I’m right outside of DC, I have to do a few hours of driving to get to a range I can use that rig, too, but let me tell you, it’s worth it.

It’s also way cheaper than you might realize. I’m a bargain hunter when it comes to guns, I love em and love nice ones, but I refuse to tie up tons of money that realistically spends 95% of the year sitting in a safe. That’s a Howa 1500 action in 300 Win Mag with a 26" heavy threaded barrel, SilencerCo brake (because I have a SiCo hybrid can), UTG bipod, Brownells custom chassis made by MDT, TacMod stock, Ergo grip, AICS mag, DNZ 20 MOA billet mount, and now it sports an Athlon scope. The big components I got on sale as they came up - $350 for the chassis, $300 for the barreled action, $275 for the bipod. I think I’m about $1750 all in on it, which I think is a hell of a deal for a full chassis gun and for just how well this thing shoots.

But you don’t have to go that crazy, see my other reply above to Sony. I started the long range game on a Howa 1500 300 Win Mag hunting rifle with a thin barrel in a shitty Hogue stock (Hogue makes 2 stocks, a plastic one with pillar beds and an aluminum skeleton one, the Howas come with the cheap pillar bed one ). I had it threaded for a SiCo brake, filled the hollow plastic stock with fishing weights to reduce recoil, added a cheap bipod, and have the DNZ mount and Primary Arms scope that I later migrated to the chassis gun. I had about $750 tied up in that whole rig and was shooting that out to 1100 yards as well, and outshooting people with rigs that were 3-5x more expensive. Some of that is decent gear - Howas are criminally underrated rifles, they are so, so, so good - and a decent scope and mount. Some of it is I do compete a bit, I’m not an amazing shot, but I’m not half bad, and some of it is taking the time to hand load and develop a round for the gun. I shoot Hornady ELD-M 208gr rounds over A LOT of Retumbo powder and CCI primers. These things are like little cruise missiles out of that gun, and it holds sub-MOA easily with that load.

Under_Score > atfsgeoff 03/19/2020 at 23:04

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I’ve driven 200+ miles since Tuesday and I’ve put 2,000 miles on my car in the past week. I’m anything but panicking. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > fintail 03/19/2020 at 23:06

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Yeah, I know what you mean. Unfortunately , at my price point, I’m looking at the Kia Forte without AC level of guns.

atfsgeoff > Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious 03/19/2020 at 23:08

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A wesome!

The shadow 2 is a single/double action but there's no decocking switch, I have to manually lower the hammer on a loaded chamber if I want to carry DA with a loaded pipe. 

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 03/19/2020 at 23:42

1

Water or nerf?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > fintail 03/20/2020 at 00:00

1

DipodomysDeserti > atfsgeoff 03/20/2020 at 00:24

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Big difference between shooting with friends and learning how to gunfight.

Planning on getting into a gunfight with just target practice under your belt is pretty ballsy.

atfsgeoff > DipodomysDeserti 03/20/2020 at 00:32

1

The plan is not to get into a gun fight, the plan is to at least have a gun if you can't avoid a gun fight. Not every gun owner needs to be an IPSC competitor.

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 03/20/2020 at 01:24

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Fancy, look at that grip.

DipodomysDeserti > atfsgeoff 03/20/2020 at 01:52

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Very true. I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant he was panicking, and bought a gun thinking he was gonna have to road warrior in the next month.

If you’re going that route, you’d need to have been in the road warrior mindset for a while.

atfsgeoff > DipodomysDeserti 03/20/2020 at 02:27

1

Yeah he has no grand bug-out fantasies roughly congruent to the Walking Dead. Just wanted a good rifle to defend the homestead in times of heightened desperation among the population , which is where we’re heading.

Clown Shoe Pilot > atfsgeoff 03/20/2020 at 02:43

1

A buddy of mine just bought a S&W M&P15 a couple weeks ago . If you can find one at pre-panic prices, it’s a hell of a deal. It’s his first autoloading rifle after being a wheelgun shooter for the last 20 years.

A co-worker of mine really wanted to buy one as well, but he waited too long and now they’re pretty much sold out. He REALLY wants a Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308 because let’s face it, full size bullets are better, but he wasn’t super excited about the out-the-door price including glass. However! I found one of those in Houston for $750, cash and carry. So, I drove to Houston and back a couple days ago to pick it up and he’s gonna shoot it and decide if he loves it and wants to buy it from me . If he doesn’t, I won’t have any trouble moving it along. I’d keep it myself, but I already have one and I really like it.

I did buy some ammo on Tuesday. I thought I only had 20 rounds of 300WM in stock, so I bought a case (200 rds) of that. Immediately after buying a case of it, I found an ammo can in the closet containing 100 rounds of 300WM. DOH! The newly ordered ammo was dropped off by the FedEx man late Thursday morning, so about 48 hours order to delivery. Not too shabby.

I’d like to restock on 00 buckshot but it’s GONE. I still have a stupid amount of Federal Tactical rifled slugs that I bought a case of 15 years ago, so if I have to go shotgun, I’m punching big holes in things.

I’ve got plenty of a ll the other calibers I shoot (9, 45, 223, 308) and a ridiculous supply of 22LR. I bought a bunch of the wrong kind a couple years ago and haven’t shot it up. I meant to get CCI Stingers (1640 fps)  but had a brain fart and bought MiniMags (1235 fps) instead. Stingers are the only thing that my integrally suppressed Mark II will eat without jamming.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious 03/20/2020 at 02:45

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I used to have a Sphinx 2000, which was a Swiss made CZ75 knock off. It was NICE. I should have kept it.

atfsgeoff > Clown Shoe Pilot 03/20/2020 at 02:50

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I hear ya on the full powered round being better, I run an M1A as my primary defense rifle myself! Got about 500 rounds of milsurp 7.62 ball to go with it in addition to a couple mags full of Hornady TAP 155gr ballistic tipped bonded JHP.

I have considered offering up a 140rd bandolier of 7.62 ball in exchange for ~80 rounds of premium JHP or MHP 9mm+p, though...

Clown Shoe Pilot > atfsgeoff 03/20/2020 at 02:56

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I’m better stocked w/ 308 rifles, but I have more 223 ammo :)

However, I do carry a 223 SBR if I’m on an in-state road trip.

My dad’s Garand is in my safe too, just in case I feel like 308 isn’t going to cut it. I’ve only got 1 clip for it though, and 16 rounds of ammo.

atfsgeoff > Clown Shoe Pilot 03/20/2020 at 03:02

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The Garand is a tough old bird, but 7.62/.308 ball is essentially the ballistic twin of mil-spec .30-06 ball, so you’re not really gaining any power from a Garand over a 20-22"  barreled 7.62 autoloader.

Clown Shoe Pilot > atfsgeoff 03/20/2020 at 03:07

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My AR-10 is 16" bbl. The PTR-91 a bit under 18", but the FAL (2008 election panic purchase)  is rocking a 24" HBAR. It weighs almost as much as the safe though, so it stays in there most of the time.

pip bip - choose Corrour > atfsgeoff 03/20/2020 at 05:10

1

bought some bog roll i saw in a supermarket Wednesday.

last pack they had

Tristan > fintail 03/20/2020 at 10:45

2

Try the Walther. You'll love it. The ergonomics are on point and the build quality is fantastic. I've got a PPQ because I tried one at the range once and immediately had to have one. I've owned it for three years now and still haven't fired it once, so that's how badly I needed it... 

fintail > Tristan 03/20/2020 at 13:30

1

Very cool. I will definitely keep it in mind. This might be the year I become a real Murkan in more ways than just having extraordinarily expensive healthcare and fewer benefits than my developed world counterparts.

Tristan > fintail 03/20/2020 at 14:16

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You’ll be eating cheeseburgers in no time!

jimz > DipodomysDeserti 03/20/2020 at 16:44

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yep.  I chuckle at people who act like they’ll be all John McClane if the SHTF.

jimz > Decay buys too many beaters 03/20/2020 at 16:45

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I bought a chunk of 7.62x39 (Russian stuff) a while back when I found a deal, but for the most part it’s useless.  I can’t take it to any range in the area, so it basically sits in storage. 

DipodomysDeserti > jimz 03/20/2020 at 16:53

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There are real deal guys out there, but they didn’t start buying stuff when things started to get weird. They’ve had and been training with their gear fir a long time, and have experienced (caused)  societal collapse first hand.

Decay buys too many beaters > jimz 03/20/2020 at 17:07

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My ranges are far less picky. Pretty much the only thing they limit are tracers 

Hamtractor > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/20/2020 at 18:11

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You’re right about the money spent wisely thing. I picked up a Savage Model 12 BVSS in .223 a few years ago, nice heavy barrel, threw a Harris bipond on it and a fir st gen Vortex PST (maybe 4x14?) on it. Amazing triggers on those Savage rifles, man... Bought it to learn the long range game, got to where I was ringing the 10inch steel at 600 maybe 8/10 shots?  E nded up using it on a guided prairie dog shoot in So uth Dakota with my pops. In one eight-hour day, between the two of us we whacked 181 of the little fellers. That rifle was prairie dog accurate to 400 yards when the wind cooperated. My old man was shooting a .308 Howa like yours, but his came with the heavy barrel, and he was shooting some 115gr handloads that absolutely vaporized those prairie dogs, lol...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Hamtractor 03/20/2020 at 22:04

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Savage rifles are also fantastic, and Vortex makes some good glass. Sounds line you really know that rifle well to make those kind of shots. Are you hand loading for it?

My first experience with Howa was shooting my brother in laws stainless heavy barrel 308 with some handloads. It was an absolute tack driver, and totally sold me on the brand. 

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > Clown Shoe Pilot 03/20/2020 at 22:43

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Oh man. Prior to Shadows, the Sphinx clones were considered to be the perfect form of the 75 design. Even with the Shadows now, Sphinxes are still right up at the top when it comes to desirable CZs. 

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > atfsgeoff 03/20/2020 at 22:54

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Is the Shadow something that you’d really want to carry, though? There’s no question that it’s among the best shooting handguns currently produced, but what makes it so great is also what makes it...bad for carry? It’s heavy, no firing pin block, probably few (if any) conceal holsters on the market.

I'd keep a Shadow 2 (with a light) on my nightstand for home defense for sure, though. 

atfsgeoff > Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious 03/20/2020 at 23:50

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I have a leather pancake holster currently being made to order in Slovakia for it!

I swapped the low profile safety switch for the included paddle switch last night and have been practicing grip, draw and dryfire with it. I’m probably going to carry condition 1, to take advantage of that super crisp single action trigger. It also avoids the onerous task of manually lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber, which if your thumb slips, negligent discharge.

Yeah the S2 has no firing pin block, but the pin is still under heavy spring tension so it’s drop-safe whether cocked & locked, hammer fully-down on loaded chamber, or in half-cock position (which the CZ-75 design was originally meant to be carried in). The decocker-equipped CZ-75 variants all drop the hammer to half-cock for double action first shots.

It looks like a lot of competition shooters rest their primary hand thumb atop the paddle safety switch to help get as high a grip position as possible, and in conjunction with the gun’s mass, essentially eliminates muzzle flip. Can’t wait to try it out.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 03/21/2020 at 13:25

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I’ve had that thought too.  SKS is a decent rifle

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Tristan 03/21/2020 at 13:29

1

I wish I could buy a pistol. A walther would be really nice to have, just due to the quality.

Alas, I don’t have the license and to own a handgun in Canada is a “big thing” and really isn’t worth it

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 03/21/2020 at 13:59

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It’s also one of the cheapest rifles I can get period