Can Anybody Interpret this Label?

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/09/2020 at 00:11 • Filed to: None

Some of it’s quite obvious. Would that be bird shot rather than buckshot? What is 1-3/8 load charge? Would this make good personal defense ammo? Is this a particularly row dy round? For use in a Remington 870. Thanks.

DISCUSSION (25)

atfsgeoff > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 00:21

#2 is still considered buckshot, just a bit smaller but with more per shell than the well-known 00 buckshot. 1-3/8 load refers to the total weight of the shot load in ounces.

I would not hesitate to run it as home or personal defense ammo, lots of guys actually prefer #2 or even #4 buckshot to 00, because it penetrates fewer walls in urban environments but still penetrates enough flesh to effectively neutralize a drug-addled maniac.

MonkeePuzzle > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 00:25

it says “peace was never an option”

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 00:50

Good luck lugging a shotgun around the bay area for self defense. That’ll get you second look even in Arizona.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 00:51

The classic buckshot load is 00, but #2 will still do fine for those times when you absolutely, positively need to put a bunch of holes in something at ranges of not further than across the living room. That said, 3 1/2" shells are kind of an odd choice for defensive use. Make sure the action for that 870 is set up for 3 1/2" shells, as not all pump shotguns are. I want to say most are set up to run only 2 3/4" and 3" shells. You might google around for which 870 models can cycle the long bois.

Nice price, though. For defensive use I might also wonder how old they are for that price.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > atfsgeoff
03/09/2020 at 00:51

Is that going to be a r owdy load? Isn't 3-1/2 kind of the maximum length?

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 00:52

That’s a waterfowl hunting round, steel ammo, 3 1/2" shell.

Your 870 won’t likely fire that round as most of them only had a 3" chamber and can’t take the 3.5" shell .

It will hurt you like hell when firing as well, its made to knock a flying goose out of the sky at 70 yards so there’s a serious kick.

For my personal defense 870 I put one round of bird shot in the chamber (warning shot) then 4 rounds of 00 buck. #2 is the largest of the bird shots and would probably be fine for self defense (if your goal is not to kill) , although in that serious a round it would punch right through walls without hesitation.

For reference #2 bird shot is about half the size of a BB whereas 00 buck shot is 1/3 of an inch and a 2 3/4 inch shell usually holds 9 of them so it’s like having 380 shots fired vs #2 is like being shot with 700 tiny BBs.

Fun fact - in most states the only legal thing you can hunt with #2 is waterfowl, it’s not legal for small game or turkey.

HammerheadFistpunch > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 00:54

Fasteels > sloweels

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
03/09/2020 at 00:56

I did not choose these; they chose me.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer
03/09/2020 at 01:00

Thank you. I did not choose this ammo, it chose me and I did not know what to make of it. The 870 is police issue, FWIW. The shotgun chose me, too. I don't know much about it yet.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch
03/09/2020 at 01:01

For once, I have nothing to say.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
03/09/2020 at 01:03

Old. Like 30 or 40 years.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 01:16

I know Canada Geese are a bit stroppy but they are incredibly unlikely to commit home invasion.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 01:45

If your 870 can cycle those long shells, I’d probably only consider them practice ammo at that age. That said, in my old Eastern block guns I also used to shoot a bunch of Russian surplus ammo sometimes dating to 40's or 50's and never had a round not go bang, but I would not have wanted to rely on it.

facw > HammerheadFistpunch
03/09/2020 at 08:55

Honestly, if I were a home invader, I would be significantly deterred by someone shooting eels (of any speed) at me. They might not be fatal, but I still think I wouldn’t want to be around that person.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
03/09/2020 at 09:02

If they will attack a police officer in public, I wouldn’t trust them not to invade my home. :)

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 09:13

Check the stampings on the left side of the barrel near the receiver - it will say the chamber length. It could be 2 3/4", 3" or 3.5" in a 12 gauge. I suspect it says 3", that’s what almost all 870s are made in unless it is really old or a magnum (designed for turkey or waterfowl hunting.

Police issue usually just means short barrel (18.5 inch) and black synthetic stock. Sometimes they have a longer magazing tube under the barrel.

Were you looking for something all around or more specific to home defense? One nice thing about the 870 shotgun is that it’s easy to swap out the barrel on it. You can keep the short one for defense and if you want to go shoot trap you can put on a 28" barrel in about a minute. I personally keep mine with the long barrel on it, since I grew up hunting with long barreled shotguns I’m both quicker with it and more comfortable.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer
03/09/2020 at 11:10

So in your 870 for personal defense, the 00 buck, what length of shell?

When you say, “warning shot,” what’s your strategy there? How is that round deployed?

I’m imagining that there is a correlation between shell length and rowdiness of a given round; is that necessarily the case? Would a 3-1/2 inch shell hold more shot, more powder, or both, over a 2-3/4 or 3-inch? Am I correct in assuming that the shells you are using have lead shot?

Full of questions this morning, I am...

Finally, you talked of the #2 shot in the rounds that I have being able to pass through walls with ease. Would the shorter shell and heavier shot lessen that likelihood?

Thanks. Happy Monday!

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 11:25

- 2 3/4 length shell in my 870 (it’s a late 50's manufacturer 870 so that’s all it will take.

-We have a big meth problem around here (rural missouri) so firing a round of bird shot into the trees will scatter junkies very effectively while it harmlessly falls elsewhere. A round of 00 fired into the air could still do some serious damage when it lands (like a rifle or pistol bullet)

-In general yes a longer shell has more powder and shot in it, there are exceptions and specialty loads (like high brass) that are designed for high velocity and use more powder and less shot to get there. Shells like the high brass are designed for bird hunting. Also yes I only use lead shells unless I’m hunting waterfowl (where it’s illegal to use lead).

-Shorter yes, but not heavier the larger the pellet, the deeper it will penetrate . You’d honestly want to use something like a 2 3/4 number 4 shot, but it depends on your skill, surroundings and desire on what you want to do . With shotgun shot it’s like gauges the larger the number, the smaller the pellet. So a #2 is the biggest shot you can buy, going all the way down the #9 (that’s the smallest I’ve shot).

At the same time as what I’ve said above if you’re talking really close range (within a few feet) it’s all lethal.

I’m always happy to answer questions, I’ve have shot guns since I was a kid and even sold them for a few years. It is a passion of mine to share this knowledge with others and make sure they’re used responsibly.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer
03/09/2020 at 11:37

Thanks you.

You say that #2 is the biggest shot you can buy, but wouldn’t 00 be bigger still? So if you were contemplating defending your home, still 00 and a 2-3/4" shell?

I did some work last weekend and posted a picture of a big can of powder; perhaps we shared a comment on that thread. On that day I was about to go and buy a Mossberg Defender Sum’m from a coworker, but it didn’t work out. The guy at the house, actually the son of the person who’d hired me, said he had an 870 from the 70s, “a police trade-in.” Says he’s never fired it and wants $150 for it. When I went back to check on an aspect of the job I’d done, I asked him about the shotgun and he couldn’t put his hands on it — has like 50 guns, he says — but came back with this case of ammo which he’d bought back in the day. I already own a couple of revolvers in .38 and .357 and I want to add a 12-ga and a Ruger Mini-14 in 5.56 to my armory. Then I figure I’d have most of the bases covered. I enjoy shooting very much, but don’t often, and I just want to be prepared for if I should ever need a firearm for some reason.

Do you have a favorite brand of shotgun shells that you depend upon for personal defense?

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 11:54

I didn’t finish m y thought there, sorry. #2 is the biggest ‘bird shot’ which means something you would hunt with. Bigger than that is called ‘buck shot’ which can be from BB sized to 000. In the vast majority of states Buck Shot is illegal to hunt with. I know a guy though that would alternate 00 buck shot and deer slugs in his 12 gauge when hunting Grizzly in Alaska. He said it was a round of buck to the head to blind the bear then a slug to the heart to kill it. Most states have rules around what you can hunt with the larger bird shots too. For example in Missouri I can turkey hunt with up to # 4 shot, but no larger and small game (squirrels, birds, rabbits) I can hunt with no larger than #6 shot, #2 here is only legal for waterfowl.

Having too many guns used to be a problem of mine too - the last year though I’ve sold off ~15 of them to cut it about in half and it’s a more reasonable collection now.

That’s a solid find, a 870 from the 70's. They were made very well then compared to the company now. Also a police trade-in might mean either a police issue gun or one that someone gave to the police to get rid of it. Back then a lot of the nicer guns didn’t get destroyed like they do now but handed out to officers and friends. Either way for $150 that’s a great deal, I’d but it in a heartbeat.

357 is also one of my favorite rounds to shoot, I’ve got a lovely Rossi 6" that my wife gave to me a while back in polished stainless that’s fantastic.

I usually buy Winchester buck shot. But honestly it’s just because my local shop carries it. For bird shot no preference, just whatever I have around. It is usually a 7.5 shot 2 3/4 remington shell though.

Shooting is a fun hobby, but it can get expensive and atleast around here most gun shops are filled with the most unpleasant human beings. There are a lot of confederate flag license plates and window stickers in their parking lots...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer
03/09/2020 at 12:26

The guy at work wants $150 for the Mossberg. I’m inclined toward the Remington. When I get a closer look at it, I’ll report back.

Here’s a thought: a deer slug in a 3-1/2" shell. Would be like shoulder firing a howitzer...

Why would your guy be blinding, then killing a bear instead of just shooting it once with a rifle?

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 12:57

Because it was 20 years ago before magnum magnum calibers were everywhere and he lived in Alaska, which definitely back then meant you didn't make much money and used what you had on hand.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer
03/09/2020 at 13:04

Fair enough. I was thinking current times. I probably sounded like an environmentalist, and I didn’t intend to. I was just curious. And would he have been hunting bear, or just protecting himself and his holdings from bears?

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 13:36

It’s not how I would do it either. He would do that when he was meat hunting. Not interested in hide or trophy, just wanting some bear meat in the freezer. A non magnum caliber won’t penetrate a g rizzly bears skull and a first shot to the chest of a bear won’t usually kill them immediately either so it was safer to blind it with the first shot then try to kill it with the second that way it can’t find you and maul you to death. Not super clean or kind, but before you could buy a 338 for $600 in every gun store it was an effective way for him to fill his freezer with bear meat.

This guy was a real interesting dude, our families were close growing up and his father taught me how to hike and camp, he moved to Alaska for a few years and worked as a bush airplane mechanic. Then moved to I think Ecuador to work with the government building water filtration facilities for a few years. He's an engineer now designing and building large municipal water systems in the US.

Went hunting, camping, canoeing with him many of times. Most memorable was a 4 day trip on the Mississippi where we camped and now hunted for deer on the islands between Christmas and New Years.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > haveacarortwoorthree2
03/09/2020 at 19:07

As a Canadian, we’re generally nice. Except for our geese. They’re jerks.