Gig Driving: Is Amazon Putting UPS Drivers' Employment at Risk?

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/08/2020 at 19:28 • Filed to: None

Do these gig-driving Amazon parcel deliverers threaten putting UPS drivers out of work ultimately? I saw an Amazon-decorated package van today and thought, I bet she’s paid (a lot) less than the union UPS drivers...

DISCUSSION (33)

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 19:35

All the Amazon packages in my area are delivered by UPS so, no. At least not here.

sony1492 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 20:00

A lternative title: Will unions strangle employers to death?

For Sweden > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 20:03

They will fight, but who will win?

Kinja'd!!!

AestheticsInMotion > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 20:05

Short-term? Probably not. There’s enough room in the market for all three companies to continue growing before bumping up against each other too badly. No one can meet consumer demand at the moment.

Long-term? Yeah. There are very good reasons why FedEx and UPS are terrified.

Oh and you are right about the pay. On average a full-time UPS driver in a metro area will be making 2x what the Amazon driver is making, and that’s before taking into account the very nice benefits package.

SiennaMan > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 20:23

If I had to make a prediction, it'd be that self flying quadcopters will replace all of them..

WilliamsSW > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 20:25

Coronavirus could grow their market so much the question becomes irrelevant.

But will that kill bricks and mortar shopping?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
03/08/2020 at 20:51

Costlier, I should think, than gig people.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > AestheticsInMotion
03/08/2020 at 20:52

I should think that FedEx and UPS employees would be terrified, whilst the companies themselves would be jubilant at the prospect of halving their labor costs.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WilliamsSW
03/08/2020 at 20:57

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the government’s top infectious disease guy, who’s been doing this forty years, told people to not even consider getting on a cruise ship. I hadn’t thought about how this thing might hasten the demise of bricks-and-mortar shopping. My prediction is that the school district that employs me won’t make it to Spring Break before we wind up shut down. I’d be very happy to be proven wrong on that, but I’m just putting it out there.

Also: I got the recipe for the oatmeal chippers... (I thought they had raisins, but they don’t...)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SiennaMan
03/08/2020 at 20:57

I hope you are wrong about that. Drones are cool, but they also are a scourge.

facw > sony1492
03/08/2020 at 21:00

Alternative alternative title: Should Amazon workers/contractors unionize?

AestheticsInMotion > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 21:05

UPS offers a good wage, great benefits and solid training opportunities.

FedEx’s contractor model —o ffering zero benefits— has a much lower floor, but a much higher ceiling for maybe 5, 10% of drivers.

I mentioned above that UPS full-time drivers make on average 2x more than Amazon drivers, plus benefits, plus the security of bring unionized. FedEx is a bit lower rate for most , except with those 5-10% of drivers who know how to work the contractor system. They can easily be taking home 5-6 x what the Amazon worker does. In addition they have a level of freedom granted to them that isn’t present with the competitors.

And despite all this....

With a (close to) minumum wage workforce, A mazon is absolutely destroying them in the vast majority of metrics that matter, despite being new to the industry. So y es, the big two are quite scared, and have enacted more major changes in the past 6 months than they have in the past 5 years. If you look at the explosion of growth for Amazon’s delivery service, it’s not surprising. They actually cut off Fedex shipments entirely as an option for small businesses during “peak season “, which was basically a massive flex on the entire industry. F edEx is trying to copy certain aspects of Amazon’s model, UPS... For better-or-worse seems to be taking after USPS.

Time will tell. Interesting to watch at least!

AestheticsInMotion > facw
03/08/2020 at 21:07

Alternative alternative alternative title: Should Amazon workers that meet all the requirements of employees, be classified as contractors?

There's an interesting case going on in California right now over this

facw > AestheticsInMotion
03/08/2020 at 21:13

I’m strongly of the opinion that regardless of how they classify things, we shouldn’t let companies dodge responsibilities simply by using part-time workers or contractors.

SiennaMan > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 21:18

Exactly. I'm not convinced it would be a good thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens..

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > AestheticsInMotion
03/08/2020 at 21:19

I’m 55 and I look at how things have changed since I was a younger man and what I thought I’d be looking at now from when I was, say, 30, and I am shocked. What blows me away is how information has done to weaken employment prospects for people. I think that Uber or Lyft or delivering for Amazon are horrifying prospects for employment. And you haven’t mentioned it, but if you’re gigging, you’re paying self-employment taxes also, aren’t you? Like 32%, right? Scary times.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SiennaMan
03/08/2020 at 21:20

Science fiction is now.

For Sweden > AestheticsInMotion
03/08/2020 at 21:21

Amazon also doesn't have to pick up packages on their delivery route.

Nick Has an Exocet > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 21:21

I wouldn’t be surprised if UPS starts contracting Amazon for deliveries.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Nick Has an Exocet
03/08/2020 at 21:26

I’d expect UPS’s employee union to have ought to say about that prospect.

AestheticsInMotion > For Sweden
03/08/2020 at 21:26

I don’t disagree with that statement.

AestheticsInMotion > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 21:36

I think the gig industry is good for those already making solid income, who have spare time and would like a quick influx of cash . It’s nice how quick and painless it can be to get started. Sign up, and if you ever have some free time to kill... Make a few bucks. Invest it, save up for a new car, whatever. Plus you get a new view by which to see the world through.

But yeah, as soon as you *need* the job and don't have the financial security to be able to walk away at a moments notice.... That's a bad spot to be in. I'm not positive what the tax situation is like.

AestheticsInMotion > facw
03/08/2020 at 21:47

Agreed. I'm honestly surprised that some of the most notorious companies have agreed to pay wages for employ—err, contractors out sick for CV.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > For Sweden
03/08/2020 at 21:47

There’s that.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > AestheticsInMotion
03/08/2020 at 21:52

I think the gig industry is good for those already making solid income...

You mean an actual jayo-bee? As a teacher, I know what it is to have, and to have not that. I wouldn’t say that (most) teachers don’t earn their salaries, but hey: when’s the last time anyone in any job took two contiguous weeks of vacation at once? I do academic coaching on the side hustle and do handyman repairs also, and it pays better than gigging. Much better. But you say it: not a great spot. And no way do you cover the wear and tear on the car. I rode in an Uber one night, brand new Corolla with a CVT that’ll need a $600 fluid service at like 30k miles. Nope. At least delivering packages for Amazon, I could use my ‘91 Corolla that doesn’t owe me anything...

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 22:23

There’s an Amazon warehouse close to my house that I drive by quite often. They have a massive fleet of gray pro masters in Amazon livery. At certain times of day there’s a steady stream of 4-5 a time at the gas station on the corner.

WilliamsSW > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/08/2020 at 23:43

I was just emailing friends about the radio commercials I keep hearing for Alaskan cruises - I’d rather spend a week in Milan right now than go on a cruise.

I am afraid of the sam e thing with my son’s school. My wife (she’s a doc) is pretty worried about her parents, and mine. Hopefully it settles down but who knows?

Yum on the cookies !

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MiniGTI - now with XJ6
03/09/2020 at 00:09

I saw one of those is why I posted. I bet those vans don't last three years

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WilliamsSW
03/09/2020 at 00:10

I'll be in touch.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 08:09

I don’t think so, their delivery service is terrible, even worse than Fedex, and one of the main reasons I hardly bother looking at amazon anymore. There’s also a ton of non-amazon delivery around that no other retailer will use, business to business and the like. Amazon will continue to grow, but unless they branch out to non-amazon delivery, they won’t be taking anything from UPS, etc. that was the core of their business a decade ago .

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/09/2020 at 12:32

Are even the guys driving around in those gray vans with Amazon outfits categorized as independent contractors as well? I figured the guys showing up in their busted Elantra with a yellow vest (that they surely bought and paid for themselves off Amazon) were obviously 1099s but thought the guys in the vans would be actual employees.

How does that even make sense? At this point – what is the delineator that makes most jobs safe from being ICed?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/09/2020 at 13:07

I don’t know, but I’ve made all of the same observations. I saw the gray van and I just began wondering.

AestheticsInMotion > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
03/09/2020 at 13:52

They are all ICs. They meet 99% of the requirements for employees, but alas...