I Gambled, and Lost

"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish) 02/27/2020 at 22:07 • Filed to: always get a ppi

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I took the E28 for an inspection at a BMW specialist that my friend has been to before, and trusts. Everything was basically as I expected. It needs front struts, ball joints, control arm bushings, and the left axle has a bit of clicking so it should be replaced given the torn axle boots.

Now for the slack in the driveline. Motor, trans, and diff mounts are all good. So is the guibo. Upon first inspection, it looked like the subframe bushings were the problem, they moved a decent amount. Then we looked closer...

Fuck.

That’s what I get for buying a 34 year old car without a PPI. I knew it was possible there’d be hidden bad rust, but considering it had been undercoated until 5 years ago I decided to jump on it without getting it inspected. I think if I’d tried to get it inspected, someone would’ve bought it before me. On the other hand, it would  be their problem instead...

Dunno what the plan is now. For the moment, I’m just gonna cry into some beer, and then I’ll start getting estimates before I jump to listing it for sale as a parts car. The damn thing just runs so well. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:10

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Dang. Is it prohibitively expensive to repair?

gmctavish needs more space > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 02/27/2020 at 22:13

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Yeah, for me at least. It’s also impossible to know how far that rust goes until you start cutting. Could be a $1500 job, could be $4500.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:18

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Welp :(((

fintail > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:20

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Yikes, shocking for a local car, must have been exposed to something nasty at one time, or maybe something got sealed in.  Maybe find a beater with a solid undercarriage (yeah, I know) and do the ultimate parts swap/project car hell?

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:21

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Your first problem was you looked.  Blissful ignorance is key for enjoyment of older cars.  

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:23

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Damn, that sucks man...hopefully, though it’s bad, it’s not TOO bad and it’s repairable! :(

sony1492 > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:23

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Will selling it as parts be more valuable then continuing to use it as is?

dumpsterfire! > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:23

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Ouch . 

Longtime Lurker > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:27

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Oh no!

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:29

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Ooooh that’s not good. The only way to fix that economically is to put your life on hold, find a shed and some tools and have at it with cutters and welders...

By the sound of it... that's someone else's project.

OPPOsaurus WRX > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:37

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i bet yoy couyld part that thing out until you have sold everything but the rust.  

someassemblyrequired > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:37

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Dang, so sorry, if it’s any consolation it’s really clean under there and it’s a mistake I definitely think I could have made.   Hopefully you can get it fixed, if not hopefully you can find a donor or make some money breaking it for spares.

gmctavish needs more space > fintail 02/27/2020 at 22:44

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That idea has definitely crossed my mind. If I had the room, I would. 

gmctavish needs more space > OPPOsaurus WRX 02/27/2020 at 22:46

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If I had the spare time/space to part it out, that would likely be the plan. Or find a better shell and swap everything into it. 

gmctavish needs more space > sony1492 02/27/2020 at 22:47

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Parting it out would, but selling it whole for parts I’ll lose money. If I gambled again and went all in and fixed all the rust, it’s maybe possible I could break even, but highly unlikely. 

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 22:51

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Ah man... sorry to hear that.  I probably would have missed that too.  

MM54 > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 23:00

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Ouch. That’s the wonder of rubberized undercoating - all it takes is one spot missed, chipped, or rubbed through and now you have a layer of rubber holding moisture on the metal. Unfortunately in this case it’s in a high-stress hard to see area. Unfortunately that also means it’s very hard to tell how far the rust goes - might be pretty localized (hopefully) making it relatively easy to repair or it might extend up into the sheetmetal pretty far.

It looks like an otherwise clean car, worth strongly considering repairs in my opinion. I do not know what it would cost to have a shop do, though. I wish you the best of luck in getting things sorted out.

gmctavish needs more space > MM54 02/27/2020 at 23:06

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I’m assuming those spots were missed due to the weird angle. I’ll be taking the rear seat out this weekend to see the top of the subframe pin mounting point , see how deformed they are to get an idea how long it’s been flopping around. Judging by how freely the mounts move, they’re not attached to the body at all anymore, I think it’s been a while and the rust has had some time to spread....

It’s quite a clean car otherwise, and the happiest M30 I’ve ever driven. No electrical issues, sunroof doesn’t leak, has an lsd....if I had a shop and a hoist I’d be teaching myself how to weld. Unfort unat el y I’m beholden to those that do, so I’ll be getting some quotes and deciding from there. 

Chariotoflove > OPPOsaurus WRX 02/27/2020 at 23:06

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Yeah, the market for those parts must be pretty big. 

Chariotoflove > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 23:09

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I’m sorry. That stinks. 

glemon > gmctavish needs more space 02/27/2020 at 23:29

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That is too bad, I don’t really like white cars, but it looks great on a vintage German . Looks good, runs good, rusty underneath, I have bought similar. I took the plunge and bought a mig welder a few years ago. But equipment and skills for cosmetic panel repair is a lot less daunting than struct ural work. You might try Bimmer forums and see if anybody has any parts cars they would be willing to cut patch repair panels off of, far fetched, but if jump into the community sometimes solutions appear. If you state your problem someone might also offer to buy your car far parts, or give an experienced evaluation of the likely fix.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > gmctavish needs more space 02/28/2020 at 00:01

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I think we all have this story. Or in my case, three.

I'm a big proponent of cutting losses. And the positive is you'll never ever ever ever forgo an inspection on an old car ever again.

shop-teacher > gmctavish needs more space 02/28/2020 at 07:07

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So, sometimes a late in life undercoating is actually done specifically to try and hide rust. Sorry the gamble came up snake eyes.

RacinBob > gmctavish needs more space 02/28/2020 at 07:43

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I have a wonderful Racing fabricator here in Wisconsin who would drop the frame, put plates over the holes with captured nuts and put it back together. You could make it safe again but it would be several thousand which as you say is not justified.

It looks to be a nifty car woth saving, do you have a nearby tech school that wants a welding/fab project?

RacinBob > gmctavish needs more space 02/28/2020 at 07:47

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PS, what bushings are these, front, rear or both?

diplodicus forgot his password > RacinBob 02/28/2020 at 08:07

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That’s the rear subframe bushing

diplodicus forgot his password > gmctavish needs more space 02/28/2020 at 08:16

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I’ve actually had mine listed for sale for some time, if you get rid of this and are interested in picking up another. Most people seem put off by the PO decontenting it but I am personally a fan of it. 

DasWauto > gmctavish needs more space 02/28/2020 at 08:38

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My commiserations man, I lost similarly on my e30. It had the typical jacking points as an issue and further investigation by me found a sizeable parts of both front foot wells that needed replacing, as well as a chunk of one of the frame rails and rust starting into one of the sills.

I ended up parting the car out and scrapping the shell -  made as my money back and then some. Still sucks though, and I continue to regret passing up the suuuper clean 318i that I almost bought to replace my 325i. Maybe one day I’ll buy another, I’ll stick to my newer BMW for now. 

RacinBob > diplodicus forgot his password 02/28/2020 at 08:39

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Just one or more?

To be honest, it doesn’t look too bad for a skilled fabricator assuming you accept that they will probably be changing the bushing to something more solid as he can’t weld on a rubber bushing sleeve.

Think of it this way, it probably would cost more to fix a rod knock.. The key thing is to find a fabricator who will put up with the hassle. It would help a lot if you had the frame out, the parts and all he had to do was do the welding,.

RacinBob > RacinBob 02/28/2020 at 08:41

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Ps, if it is just that corner, I suggest putting together the parts and finding somebody who can weld........

diplodicus forgot his password > RacinBob 02/28/2020 at 09:33

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Theres a left and right mount. It doesn't look like the subframe itself is in bad shape based on his pics. Just the mounting location on the unibody. I don't know enough about fabricating to say how easy it would be to deal with

gmctavish needs more space > RacinBob 02/28/2020 at 11:55

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It’s both rear subframe mounts. Since it’s impossible to know how far the rust goes until you start cutting, the guesses I’m being given is $1500 best case scenario, and anywhere up to $4500 if it goes farther into the floors and rockers. It’s a tricky area to rebuild, and I have nowhere to get the subframe dropped, and no way to get it to a shop once it’s not a roller. If I had space, I’d start digging into it myself and try and learn how to weld. 

gmctavish needs more space > RacinBob 02/28/2020 at 11:59

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There is a nearby tech school, I could see if they want to buy it but I can’t afford to donate it. I don’t want to part it out, even though that’s the smartest decision money-wise

RacinBob > gmctavish needs more space 02/28/2020 at 13:34

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What I was thinking of was if the school would be interested in doing it as a project...... Even if you have to chip some money in.

The way I would look at it is give me the most expeditious solution to tie those mounts solid. I would att empt to f ind a bushing to work there but if somebody said the affordable solution is to make a solid mount, that’s what I would do. Have fun. 

RacinBob > gmctavish needs more space 03/01/2020 at 18:15

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Here is what I would think of. If you can get that arm out of the way, Make from cardboard a cover plate the can be welded to the OD of the bushing and to the body to locate and secure it to the frame. If you can do that, you can probably find a fabricator to work on it. (assuming someone will touch it because of liability reasons).

gmctavish needs more space > RacinBob 03/01/2020 at 20:13

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That would effectively lock the subframe to the body of the car, which wouldn’t be good. It needs to be able to move as much as the bushings allow, or I’d have a pretty harsh ride. Unfortunately the only right way to fix it is to drop the rear subframe, and start cutting until you reach good steel. Then work back from there to rebuild the mounts.