US Wind Turbines

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 02/19/2020 at 10:40 • Filed to: None

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Where the wind comes sweep ing down the plain ...

https://eerscmap.usgs.gov/uswtdb/viewer/#4.34/37.63/-95.47

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=41333

OPPOsaurus WRX > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 10:50

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they missed one

(possibly cuz the POS never really worked)

Arrivederci > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 10:50

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All those poor people getting cancer.

Milky > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 10:55

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I do like how the area Im from, has them and a large man made hydro electric lake / station.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > OPPOsaurus WRX 02/19/2020 at 10:57

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Never ever?

Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 10:57

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West Virginia...interesting. I always thought CA would have a lot more.

Very few in the South Central, I wonder if it’s more about unpredictable weather or just the wide proliferation of natural gas here (relatively clean, but not renewable) .

I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in person except from the air.

AkursedX > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 10:59

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A friend of mine who I autocross with maintains wind turbines for a living.  He always posts some interesting pics of the internals and he definitely gets some of the best views around

vondon302 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 10:59

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The rich folk in Northern Michigan ( traverse bay area) have been building heli pads to keep the windmills out. Apparently you can't have a wind mill with in a certain distance of a heli pad.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 02/19/2020 at 11:00

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Just like solar makes more sense in the southwest...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > AkursedX 02/19/2020 at 11:02

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I bet! Has to be wild to be on top of one of those all by yourself. Dude must be in amazing shape...

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Ash78, voting early and often 02/19/2020 at 11:03

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Most of California’s were installed decades ago.... the EIS and permitting requirements are brutal.

Meanwhile?  Iowa and Texas are covered with them.   And, Wyoming needs to get in the game.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > vondon302 02/19/2020 at 11:04

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Not a fan of the NIMBY crowd, but that’s a pretty smart way to do it...

OPPOsaurus WRX > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:06

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i don’ t know the whole story, but i think it worked, then broke down, was fixed, caught on fire, fixed, broke down, company was out of business and never fixed again.

Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:06

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Not to go down a rabbit hole, but it also doesn’t help that solar is also subsidized in a lot of places, but downright discouraged in others. I know of exactly one house in my area with rooftop solar, and my Google Mapping bears this out.

Our situation in AL is excessive “maintenance fees” charged to anyone who is on the grid, regardless of how much they draw (or sell back to the utility).

https://www.alreporter.com/2019/11/22/alabama-powers-solar-fee-challenged-in-psc-hearing/

vondon302 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:06

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I noticed the poor folk at the tip of the thumb didn't get the memo.

Ash78, voting early and often > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/19/2020 at 11:09

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To be fair to CA, with land values what they are, and the necessity of the central valley to US agriculture, probably not the best spot in the US. It’s more of an optics thing, though — I think of the ones east of SF (Livermore/Berkeley area?) and how they act like a giant billboard for renewables.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:14

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over here we’ve turned the coastlines into windmill lines

currently filling up the sea too coz hey space there

the fishers arent too happy about that

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 02/19/2020 at 11:16

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Yeah, that sucks.

Getting back your initial investment for solar panels takes quite a bit longer in most of the U.S.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 02/19/2020 at 11:18

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Bummer for the view, but y’all are doing your part to reduce hydrocarbon consumption.

Does the sound/vibration send fish elsewhere?

Just Jeepin' > OPPOsaurus WRX 02/19/2020 at 11:19

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Nothing > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:21

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I’m pretty NIMBY when it comes to the fracking nearby. Doesn’t matter though. O&G is currently getting fined $2650/day for violating noise ordinances, but they just laugh about it. I think within 3 miles of my house we’re up to 32 wells, with only 80 or so more to go.

But hey, energy independence! Woohoo!

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:23

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eh i dont mind seeing them personally

and i dont think the fish care...but the fishing boats arent allowed to come to close to the turbine and fishing space is already pretty limited here

TheRealBicycleBuck > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:25

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I wonder if their solar radiation model takes into account average cloud cover. We have two issues at our house in Louisiana. First, c loud cover is high enough during much of the year to reduce total solar gain. Second, there are large trees directly west of our house which provide considerable shade late in the day. Put them together and I don’t think solar would be worth the investment.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Ash78, voting early and often 02/19/2020 at 11:26

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Oddly, both the Livermore Pass and Desert Hot Springs wind farms have had substantial replace-and-upgrade cycles , due to newer-better turbines but we haven’t really added much capacity.

not to deflect it onto the my favorite topic— EVs— but the CAISO real-time data on “what’s on the Calif Grid at any given moment” is fascinating. During a hot August evening, when demand peaks at 48 Gigawatts, solar is basically zero and we’ll be lucky to have 500 MW (that’s like 1% of load) coming from wind. Of course, the evening is when everybody wants to charge their cars, too....

I’m just surprised the wind resource hasn’t kept up with the massive growth in 5-hour-per-day solar, at least in Cali.

States like Iowa and Texas really are far, far ahead on that front.  I think the Texas grid is completely isolated, so they can’t export-- at least at this point.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Nothing 02/19/2020 at 11:26

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Geez, that’s a lot.

Thanks for doing your part to neuter OPEC, I guess?

Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:27

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That’s basically a skin cancer map!

I’m in the same zone as you -- probably right at the brink of making sense, but nobody wants a 20-year payback period on a technology that’s improving all the time. That’s the same issue with battery tech, as well.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:30

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I wish someone would have the money and will to get “offshore” wind farms going here in the Great Lakes. Milwaukee would be well suited to taking advantage of this.  S outhern Wisconsin is already an area suited to wind farms and there just happens to be a plateau in the middle of Lake Michigan (~40miles offshore) that’s only 50-100 ft deep where it would be much easier to set up a project without being near a bunch of NIMBYs

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/19/2020 at 11:30

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Not sure about that, but it didn’t make much sense for us either in Oklahoma, despite having no trees to block the sun. Maybe if the technology gets cheaper/more effective in the future.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 02/19/2020 at 11:31

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Yep. Make it 5 years and then we’ll talk.

Ash78, voting early and often > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/19/2020 at 11:33

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During a hot August evening, when demand peaks at 48 Gigawatts, solar is basically zero and we’ll be lucky to have 500 MW (that’s like 1% of load) coming from wind.

And that’s where the batteries will have to come in (back to the Morning Shift story today). We’re all spoiled by hydro, nuclear, natural gas, and coal providing power in real time. Still, 1% is nothing to sneeze at. At least it’s proof of concept.

Now imagine giant capacitors at both the substations and the consumers’ homes that would allow more draw in the overnight and early morning hours to be stored, then deployed during peak times. Idealistic, but we’ve got to figure out how to do that “time shift” with power generation and consumption. Gasoline sure is handy...

CalzoneGolem > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:35

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I can see some of these from my house

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/19/2020 at 11:40

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Texas is way ahead, and is installing a bunch more capacity this year.

Last year’s numbers:

Texas - 24,899 MW (power to 6 million homes)
Iowa - 8,422 MW (37% of state’s total electric supply)
Oklahoma - 8,072 MW (32%)
California - 5, 885 MW
Kansas - 5,653 MW

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 02/19/2020 at 11:41

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Yeah, I don’t mind them in most places, but it is a bit of a bummer when they arrive in a place that once had amazing, unobstructed views.

facw > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:43

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I think windmills look good. Clean and futuristic. Noise can be an issue though.

facw > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 02/19/2020 at 11:44

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I think they actually support fish by being a sort of artificial reef, though I do think I read something saying the fish are more tense because of the noise/vibration.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:46

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The California CAISO database is good for real-time info....  We’re lucky if we get 10% utilization on that capacity most nights.  I don’t know what the figures of merit are in the midwest, but we’re not really getting much from the wind turbines in CA.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:47

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Or sweeping up the plain, since most of those TX turbines will be turned by a prevailing southwesterly wind. 

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:48

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I, for one, welcome our new windmill overlords. Though they are reportedly wreaking havoc on migratory bird populations. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 02/19/2020 at 11:50

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I’m sure I’ve shared this here before:

http://hint.fm/wind/

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Ash78, voting early and often 02/19/2020 at 11:50

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I’m still skeptical on the batteries— I don’t think it’s going to be lithium-ion, for a bunch of reasons.

OTOH, we are in some ways going “back to the future” with pumped hydro. After being a white elephant for 50 years— all the excess solar is making it suddenly feasible again. There are some really interesting projects proposed. Like the Niagara pumped storage site...

Suddenly, 70% efficiency seems attractive...

https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/energy-storage-innovation-niagara-pumped-storage-system

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 02/19/2020 at 11:52

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“Wind turbines kill an estimated 140,000 to 328,000 birds each year in North America. ” That’s... a lot of birds.

https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 11:53

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I’ve got that bookmarked. It’s really cool. 

Pickup_man > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 12:05

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I can see the majority of these at night with their blinky red lights, it’s kinda cool. I know they’re not perfect but I like the idea of and am in support of more wind energy. Most of these here are on just on the MN side of the border and this area of SD has pushed back pretty hard on a couple of proposed wind farms, which di sapp oints me a little. But t hen again hydro covers basically everything for this state so we don’t exactly need them, but it would be nice to keep pushing ahead with more renewable energy technology.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Pickup_man 02/19/2020 at 12:09

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Yeah, I’m with you. It’s a no-brainer to harness the power of the natural forces of our earth and use non-renewables as little as possible. And that’s coming from someone who supports his family with a job in the latter industry.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 12:11

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I read that the wind turbines take enough energy out of the atmosphere to create weather features.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/19/2020 at 12:16

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Wow!

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wind-power-found-to-affect-local-climate/

Future next gen S2000 owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 12:37

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Hah! I have extended family that lives right next the lone dot in the UP. I’ve never seen a town so divided. Half hate them, half are in favor. It’s vicious. They are surprisingly loud.

3point8isgreat > ttyymmnn 02/19/2020 at 12:47

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People keeping pet cats outdoors kills orders of magnitude more birds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/outdoor-cats-kill-between-14-billion-and-37-billion-birds-a-year-study-says/2013/01/31/2504f744-6bbe-11e2-ada0-5ca5fa7ebe79_story.html

Also by some studies fossil fuel plants kill more birds per unit of energy. ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960148112000857?via%3Dihub ) Although even as a big wind supporter I always question some studies like this because they can be very one sided with their research constraints. Stuff like looking at direct hits by wind turbine vs. effects of entire energy supply chain for fossil fuels. Even when such constraints make sense I still side eye them.

Overall it seems they’re not any worse than any other energy option.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Future next gen S2000 owner 02/19/2020 at 13:55

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For people in places used to quiet, the noise can really be maddening, I’m sure.

7:07 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 14:22

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Is it turBINE , or turban? I’m never sure.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 7:07 02/19/2020 at 14:23

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- bines spin, - bans are worn

BaconSandwich is tasty. > AkursedX 02/19/2020 at 14:25

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I have a cousin that does that same thing - wind farm maintenance.

7:07 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 14:33

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The pronunciation, I meant.

Future next gen S2000 owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 14:39

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Pisses my grandma off to no end. Of course there are ~500 people in her town and she is outside of the “town” .

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 7:07 02/19/2020 at 14:51

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Looks like both are acceptable.

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/turbine

MW flips the order:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/turbine

Snuze: Needs another Swede > ttyymmnn 02/19/2020 at 15:15

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Birds are jerks. If they are too dumb not to fly into giant, slow moving windmills, they deserve what they get. Screw ‘em.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/19/2020 at 15:34

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Cats kill over 1 billion birds each year.

BAN CATS!

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > 3point8isgreat 02/19/2020 at 15:35

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Didn’t see your post and just mentioned the same thing. lol

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/19/2020 at 15:38

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That’s... a lot more birds.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Ash78, voting early and often 02/19/2020 at 15:40

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Adding solar to a house tied to the grid is not nearly economical as it could be with utilities looking for ways to not pay people for the energy they produce.  

I’ve looked into solar, but with a payback period in the decades it’s just not worth it at this point. If I were building new though? I’d just go off grid to begin with. The cost of a a system capable of supporting a house and a battery backup with a 2  day supply is about on par with what it would cost to tie into the grid anyways.

NojustNo > ttyymmnn 02/19/2020 at 18:47

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Compare that to the number of birds that exhaust from oil driven things and oil spills tho.