I don't know what we did to end up with GS-F

"CB" (jrcb) 02/05/2020 at 20:43 • Filed to: Opinions are like Assholes

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I have no clue who it’s for, who would buy it, why it exists, why it costs so much, but damn it’ll be a sad day when they stop making it. Every time I see one it makes me smile.

bob and john > CB 02/05/2020 at 20:49

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its made for me.

only because they stopped making the IS-F

gin-san - shitpost specialist > CB 02/05/2020 at 20:56

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The IS-F and GS-F are underappreciated (at least from what I’ve seen) . NA V8, 7000+ rpm redline, and the Lexus premium materials and build quality.

I guess it’s for people that see M/RS/AMG cars and say, “nah, I don’t want any of those,” or simply want something without turbos. When most companies have moved onto smaller turbo engines it’s funny to see Toyota, whom most people say make boring cars, still making performance sedans with naturally aspirated V8s.

I think Toyota is having a bit of a renaissance - yes, the 86/Supra are collaborations but us “enthusiasts” would be bitching about having no 86/Supra, which would be the alternative to the collaborative effort.

That Corolla hatchback looks decent, and with efforts to make use of their Gazoo Racing brand I really hope people buy into Toyota’s performance efforts, or that those same people shut the fuck up when Toyota stops making them because not enough people buy them.

fintail > CB 02/05/2020 at 20:59

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A ttempt to match up with AMG/M/S-RS and get some of the cachet enjoyed by German brands. Time will tell if the strategy is successful, although on the used market it could be a fun thing to buy.   This might be the most credible contender in the brand’s tuned attempts , as it is based on a car with more clout than an I S.

RWD only, right?  I wouldn’t expect to see many of these in Flin Flon :)

interstate366, now In The Industry > CB 02/05/2020 at 21:03

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It was made because they didn’t want to have a generation of Aristo/GS* without a V8 in it. (Ok, not really, but since it’s far out of my price range for the moment I’ll have to just look on at it aspirationally for awhile and maybe pick one up in 10 years.)

*while we did not get a V8 in the original GS, the Aristo was sold with one in Japan starting in 1992. They didn’t sell as well as the 2J-powered ones, and the option was dropped for the 2nd gen there while it was added here.

CB > fintail 02/05/2020 at 21:09

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Hey, that’s still a five hour drive from me!

With winter tires, though...

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/05/2020 at 21:09

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The sad thing is the IS outsells the GS by a wide margin. They’re close enough in price that, were I in the market, I would spend the extra 5-6 grand on the equivalent GS. After sitting in a current gen IS and GS (both 350s) last year, I felt the GS had the better interior and would be worth the extra money. Alas, I had to settle for an older one.

Also, yes, the GS-F is RWD only.

interstate366, now In The Industry > gin-san - shitpost specialist 02/05/2020 at 21:12

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I think the GS in general has always been underrated, and it’s sad to see it dying out with a whimper. They sold 3,000 of them in the US all of  last year.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/05/2020 at 21:21

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I wonder if leasing has to do anything with that, as IS is aimed at the same consumer as 3er/A4/C. Maybe the GS leases poorly, or isn’t as tempting compared to the Germans relative to the IS. I’ve been in a current GS, very nice and I loved the unusual striated metal trim, but it seemed very sterile and unexciting even compared to a similarly boring spec German. I’d do as you if I was shopping IS vs GS - the bigger car seems to be a better value. I think the same for C vs E as well, although in good spec the difference will be 15K or so.   Your car is what I call the W210 GS, should be a nice smooth solid car for you.

AMG moved to AWD in most vehicles a few years ago, I wonder if F will follow suit.  

Boxer_4 > CB 02/05/2020 at 21:21

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I find these interesting. If I find myself in a position where I’d be doing a lot of highway driving ( which is entirely possible ) , this is high on my list - powerful, likely comfortable, and likely Toyota reliable. Also, these are starting to show up in the ~$45k to $50 k range for examples with ~30 k-50k miles on them - . It’s a bit challenging to find one in a color, however.

Here’s an example in Ultrasonic Blue with the red leather interior: a 2017 with ~20k miles listed for ~$54k.

These sound good, too.  Though, there seems to be more videos out there for the IS F.

thatsmr > fintail 02/05/2020 at 22:26

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I think whats important to note is that high performance cars are any/many/or all of the following: impractical, noisy, harsh riding, hard to enjoy at legal speeds, maintenance extensive. Unless you can afford a performance car as a toy rather than a driver, you will have to deal with one or more of these issues in a daily. If you can afford a fun car thats easy to daily thats why youd pick the GS-F. Remember there will always be someone with a car faster than yours, and nobody needs to drive like an asshole on public roads. Ever. Must say that a sensible fun car with poor interior quality is a hemi Charger

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/05/2020 at 22:28

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Good thoughts. One thing Lexus has working against it is that the 2GR-FSE in the IS and GS 350s is a very old engine, dating back to 2005 basically unchanged. And that’s the upper spec engine outside of the GS-F. The base model IS and GS went from a smaller displacement V6 to a 2.0T I4 for the entry models a few years ago, which looks to have improved their fuel mileage. Both cars themselves are also very old, with the current GS coming out in 2012 and the IS a year or two later. The IS is finally getting a new generation in 2021, with rumors of a return to an available straight 6 (possibly the same one in the Supra, possibly a new one from a Toyota/Mazda joint venture), but the GS looks to be going away soon.

There is a resemblance to the W210 with  the 2nd gen GS, yeah. It’s a nice car, but I picked it up as a project, so it’s got a few gremlins. I don’t drive it every day, but I’ve driven it to work a few times this week while the weather was nice.

fintail > thatsmr 02/05/2020 at 22:44

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I look at this GS-F in maybe a pragmatic way. If I had the money to shop in this class, I’d spend all the way and get an E63 even though it might come at a 20K premium . Money would be little object, and the car would be new - the MB is a more modern design with more recent tech . If I was buying something pre-owned to hold for some time and mile up a bit , I would seriously shop the GS-F over a used AMG as it might be easier to live with in the long haul. I doubt it is significantly more comfortable than an E63, but will probably have lower running costs.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/05/2020 at 22:54

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That’s a big thing too, both the IS and GS are quite old designs : while the Germans have renewed and ref reshed a few times, the GS has but minor changes. Being fresh in this market has value. The last Lexus models I drove a few years ago also had somewhat old feeling ICE, which I think Lexus just addressed recently.   I haven’ t looked, but I suspect GS sales overall are minuscule compared to the competition, perhaps Lexus sedan buyers now like the ES or one of the cloned CUVs.

Funny to think of that GS as an older hobby car, I clearly remember when they were new, and saw them as a Toyota take on a W210, and not in a bad way. Maybe just sentimental memories of the era.

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/05/2020 at 23:10

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Yeah, the entire GS line only had a little over 3,000 sold in the US last year. The IS had over 10,000, which still isn’t great. The GS shared a chassis with the Toyota Crown until a couple years ago when a new generation of Crown was released, with a bunch of tech and a choice of three powertrains, two of which are hybrids and the third is the previously mentioned 2.0T. The top trim Crown puts out a combined 350 HP with the V6 and hybrid system, and for my money is a damn fine looking car, if understated by modern Japanese standards.

The interior also looks pretty nice, and the Wiki article on it mentions some new tech.

But, this time there was no GS to go along with the new Crown.

The older GS was something I hadn’t really paid attention to until recent years, but it’s become my favorite of the Lexus sedans. The original GS back in the mid 90s was actually designed by Giugiaro, but for the 2nd gen Toyota took the styling in-house and kind of made it a cross between a W210 and a 1st gen SC, with a bit of the original GS in there too.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/05/2020 at 23:57

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Pretty sad sales, probably 1/5 of a A6/5er/E, but those are also much newer cars often with solid lease support. Probably a solid used buy though. That Crown is unusual, greenhouse kind of reminds me of a current LS, but the rear is older Camry to my eyes. I suppose the Avalon fills that niche here, even if it is weirder looking.

The original GS was quite pretty.  They seemed to have attracted less than careful owners maybe 15 years ago, rarely see a nice one anymore.  I’ve always liked older LS for their parallel universe S-class styling, even if they might be sensory deprivation chambers, and not in a good way.

MarquetteLa > Boxer_4 02/06/2020 at 00:00

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I love this supercharged clip.

RallyWrench > CB 02/06/2020 at 00:26

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I'm pretty sure that's a Photoshop. I can tell from the everything about it, and I've seen a lot of smoky drifterbois in my time. 

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/06/2020 at 11:40

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Yeah, I could probably pick one up in a couple more years for not much money, once I’ve gotten my TL paid down a bit more. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

The original GS is the same way over here, rarely any nice ones. They’re actually pretty rare in general, with them not selling well. I see one maybe every few weeks, while I see other 2nd gens almost every day. It was brought over to fill the price point left by the LS as it became more and more expensive over the years, but what I haven’t been able to find out is whether Toyota had originally planned to bring the car over in 1991 when it debuted in Japan and was delayed for whatever reason, or if it was decided to bring it over after a couple years based on how well the brand was doing.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/06/2020 at 12:27

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Or just trade it and do an equity roll, it’s the American way :)

I can’t recall when I last saw an original GS, but I do recall seeing some pretty ratty ones - and I live in a gentle climate . Oddly enough, it is Acura Legend and first gen Integra I have seen a lot of lately.  Did the GS exist in 1991, or was it a new design for 1993?  I always thought the latter.  1991 still had the faux hardtop ES, before it became a Supercamry.

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/06/2020 at 13:20

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It did and didn’t. The Toyota Aristo debuted in Japan in 1991, and it was converted to the GS300 for export markets in  1993.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/06/2020 at 13:45

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Pretty nice design for 1991.  Must have been the latter half of the bubble era when so much was overdone, mostly in a good way.

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/06/2020 at 15:05

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Yeah. The hiring of an accomplished European designer like Giugiaro for a car that shares a chassis with one of your flagships does come across as a bubble economy idea, as does the Aristo name (not to mention the legendarily overbuilt engine) . But it has aged well when done right. I don’t know if we got them in the US with that white/grey two-tone that many 90s Toyota sedans had, but I saw an imported Aristo in that color at a show  last year and it wore it quite well.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/06/2020 at 21:03

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Toyolex should maybe outsource design again, as IMO most of their recent material is ghastly. But, they are stubborn and people walking by seem to like it, so that won’t happen.

Not a fan of those wheels or stance, but I like the color combo, very much of the period. And indeed, it was offered in those colors here, a USDM example:

MB got that combo going around 1989 I think, especially good on 124 variants:

Although you could get it in all models:

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/06/2020 at 23:50

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That is nice. I’ve seen it on a few Toyotas here in the US, and it was quite common on them in Japan. I found a single example of a 2nd gen Aristo with it on Goo-Net.

I don’t think it suits the 2nd gen as well as it does the 1st.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/07/2020 at 00:13

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I think I have seen it at least a couple times on period Camry, but uncommon.  In my eyes, something for earlier in the 90s, doesn’t work on that Aristo to me, and I don’t recall ever seeing that on a USDM model.

interstate366, now In The Industry > fintail 02/07/2020 at 00:19

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I’ve seen it on the Camry a few times , yeah, and there’s a 2nd gen LS near where I work that has it, and it looks pretty good on that. It was also on the equivalent Crown to the 2nd gen Aristo, and in my opinion works a little b etter with the more conservative styling.

From what I can tell, I indeed  don’t think it was offered on the 2nd gen GS in the US. It might even be a custom job on that Aristo. I have been trying to find out what those wheels are, though, because they do fit it. All I know is they’re made by Rays.

fintail > interstate366, now In The Industry 02/07/2020 at 13:13

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That Crown is amusing, looks like a parallel universe MB just like the first LS - lots of W140 in that . I’m one of those weirdos who likes my car to be pretty stock - wheels and ride height are things I would modify on few cars (especially the latter).

Speaking of that color combo, I pop over to CL for a minute and find this, now we’re talking, lovely final run W126:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/bothell-1991-mercedes-benz-300se/7069789672.html